U.S. won't join landmine ban, administration decides

gimmesometruth27

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

wouldn't some corporation be chomping at the bit to get a no-bid contract for billions of dollars to remove said landmines?? maybe the lobbyists for the military industrial complex are losing influence????

I don't think they're losing influence-- just the opposite, actually. I think this is a classic example of the landmine manufacturers having more influence ($) than whatever company that could come and and gain a contract to remove landmines.

I know someone that has several patents for technology that would have saved American lives in the battlefield right now from IEDs. It is robotic technology that disarms bombs with a laser-- I've seen his video demonstration of it all, and it's very interesting stuff. He has signed contracts with the army and has been pushing to get this stuff manufactured and in the field for years. He has given speaking engagements and demonstrations at the pentagon, and he just keeps getting the yellow and red light from the Dept. of Defense-- all the while, people are losing limbs and lives out there. Four years later, he's still no farther than when he started. Bottomline: stuff NEEDS to get blown up for a very small group of businesses out there to profit immensely-- his ideas only get in the way. The other day, he said to me, "They can ram through any piece of legislation they want, and allocate billions of dollars at a time for any purpose at all, including 'stimulus'-- but they can't push through some small, effective, and inexpensive machinery to help out the troops." Sadly, it's true-- the lives of the soldiers are not important enough when there is money to be made.

He's Joe Schmoe with a great idea-- not Lockheed Martin with some incredibly wasteful ideas, and that's why he will only continue to be strung along, waiting for the green light that's never going to come, or come far too late.

Very good points Vinny. it is very disheartening to me to know that there is technology to protect soldiers from IEDS and it is being sandbagged by the powers that be. the saddest thing is that maybe if he sold the idea to lockheed martin it might gain some traction....

VINNY GOOMBA

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

wouldn't some corporation be chomping at the bit to get a no-bid contract for billions of dollars to remove said landmines?? maybe the lobbyists for the military industrial complex are losing influence????

I don't think they're losing influence-- just the opposite, actually. I think this is a classic example of the landmine manufacturers having more influence ($) than whatever company that could come and and gain a contract to remove landmines.

I know someone that has several patents for technology that would have saved American lives in the battlefield right now from IEDs. It is robotic technology that disarms bombs with a laser-- I've seen his video demonstration of it all, and it's very interesting stuff. He has signed contracts with the army and has been pushing to get this stuff manufactured and in the field for years. He has given speaking engagements and demonstrations at the pentagon, and he just keeps getting the yellow and red light from the Dept. of Defense-- all the while, people are losing limbs and lives out there. Four years later, he's still no farther than when he started. Bottomline: stuff NEEDS to get blown up for a very small group of businesses out there to profit immensely-- his ideas only get in the way. The other day, he said to me, "They can ram through any piece of legislation they want, and allocate billions of dollars at a time for any purpose at all, including 'stimulus'-- but they can't push through some small, effective, and inexpensive machinery to help out the troops." Sadly, it's true-- the lives of the soldiers are not important enough when there is money to be made.

He's Joe Schmoe with a great idea-- not Lockheed Martin with some incredibly wasteful ideas, and that's why he will only continue to be strung along, waiting for the green light that's never going to come, or come far too late.

Very good points Vinny. it is very disheartening to me to know that there is technology to protect soldiers from IEDS and it is being sandbagged by the powers that be. the saddest thing is that maybe if he sold the idea to lockheed martin it might gain some traction....

From a business standpoint, he probably should have sold his patents long ago, cashed out, and should be chillin' on an island somewhere-- but he loves this stuff. He had opportunities to sell it to private companies (not sure if lockheed was one of them) a few times-- what he really wanted out of the deal was employment, to be able to stay on board with a company and continue to be paid for his inventions for life, all while having the ability to keep his patents. He came really close to inking a deal with one company, but it would have involved screwing over some of his investors / fellow developers big time-- he did have some help with his designs, and with the money to design them... He couldn't bring himself to do it, and blew the opportunity of a lifetime because of loyalty. It has cost him numerous "regular" jobs from the constant "HURRY UP AND WAIT" circle-jerk that he kept being put through. Again, very sad.

The problem with selling these ideas to big businesses is that they can buy the patent just to sit on them. How many patents do you think GM, Ford, and every other automaker are sitting on right now that had the potential to put them or their friends in the oil industry, who probably hold large portions of the automaker's stock out of business? Maybe OIL themselves are sitting on the solution to the combustion engine right now? We probably will never know.

What's worse is, since he is currently directly involved with the military, none of his patents are any longer listed or searchable on the government patents site-- they are his, but aren't his at the same time right now. If they really wanted, I'm sure they could claim them as their own and pretend that he never had anything to do with them. You really can't beat these people, no matter how hard you try.

It's all about fire prevention. Stop the wars before they start. Once they start, there is no ending them. We've been fighting steady since World War II, and until more people wake and realize WHY, it is not going to stop.

aerial

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

From a business standpoint, he probably should have sold his patents long ago, cashed out, and should be chillin' on an island somewhere-- but he loves this stuff. He had opportunities to sell it to private companies (not sure if lockheed was one of them) a few times-- what he really wanted out of the deal was employment, to be able to stay on board with a company and continue to be paid for his inventions for life, all while having the ability to keep his patents. He came really close to inking a deal with one company, but it would have involved screwing over some of his investors / fellow developers big time-- he did have some help with his designs, and with the money to design them... He couldn't bring himself to do it, and blew the opportunity of a lifetime because of loyalty. It has cost him numerous "regular" jobs from the constant "HURRY UP AND WAIT" circle-jerk that he kept being put through. Again, very sad.

The problem with selling these ideas to big businesses is that they can buy the patent just to sit on them. How many patents do you think GM, Ford, and every other automaker are sitting on right now that had the potential to put them or their friends in the oil industry, who probably hold large portions of the automaker's stock out of business? Maybe OIL themselves are sitting on the solution to the combustion engine right now? We probably will never know.

What's worse is, since he is currently directly involved with the military, none of his patents are any longer listed or searchable on the government patents site-- they are his, but aren't his at the same time right now. If they really wanted, I'm sure they could claim them as their own and pretend that he never had anything to do with them. You really can't beat these people, no matter how hard you try.

It's all about fire prevention. Stop the wars before they start. Once they start, there is no ending them. We've been fighting steady since World War II, and until more people wake and realize WHY, it is not going to stop.

Has he tried to get any of the media outlets to do a story covering his invention? Maybe if the public and military family members knew about this they could put the pressure on the decision makers.

VINNY GOOMBA

aerial wrote:

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

From a business standpoint, he probably should have sold his patents long ago, cashed out, and should be chillin' on an island somewhere-- but he loves this stuff. He had opportunities to sell it to private companies (not sure if lockheed was one of them) a few times-- what he really wanted out of the deal was employment, to be able to stay on board with a company and continue to be paid for his inventions for life, all while having the ability to keep his patents. He came really close to inking a deal with one company, but it would have involved screwing over some of his investors / fellow developers big time-- he did have some help with his designs, and with the money to design them... He couldn't bring himself to do it, and blew the opportunity of a lifetime because of loyalty. It has cost him numerous "regular" jobs from the constant "HURRY UP AND WAIT" circle-jerk that he kept being put through. Again, very sad.

The problem with selling these ideas to big businesses is that they can buy the patent just to sit on them. How many patents do you think GM, Ford, and every other automaker are sitting on right now that had the potential to put them or their friends in the oil industry, who probably hold large portions of the automaker's stock out of business? Maybe OIL themselves are sitting on the solution to the combustion engine right now? We probably will never know.

What's worse is, since he is currently directly involved with the military, none of his patents are any longer listed or searchable on the government patents site-- they are his, but aren't his at the same time right now. If they really wanted, I'm sure they could claim them as their own and pretend that he never had anything to do with them. You really can't beat these people, no matter how hard you try.

It's all about fire prevention. Stop the wars before they start. Once they start, there is no ending them. We've been fighting steady since World War II, and until more people wake and realize WHY, it is not going to stop.

Has he tried to get any of the media outlets to do a story covering his invention? Maybe if the public and military family members knew about this they could put the pressure on the decision makers.

That might not be a bad idea... I will ask him.

OutOfBreath

Pepe Silvia wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

why on earth would we not support a landmine ban?

i am completely perplexed and astonished by this decision.... :?

because apparently if we banned landmines "we would not be able to meet our national defense needs nor our security commitments to our friends and allies"

The reason, quite simply, is that by agreeing to ban land-mines, you also effectively ban cluster bombs. The military thinks these are neat, and from a military perspective they are. Superb for destroying air-strips, and for dropping lots of smaller bombs over a wide area. A sizable portion of these do not explode on impact, leaving bomblets lying around as de facto land mines. I remember we had some of these grenades in the artillery when I was conscripted in the army. We rarely fired them, partly because they were a mess to clear up afterwards.

There is no moral arguement here. They are horrible weapons due to the undetonated bomblets they scatter around, BUT they have "military value" so the US will never agree to stop using them, as any other weapon they find a use for.

Peace
Dan

soulsinging

OutOfBreath wrote:

The reason, quite simply, is that by agreeing to ban land-mines, you also effectively ban cluster bombs. The military thinks these are neat, and from a military perspective they are. Superb for destroying air-strips, and for dropping lots of smaller bombs over a wide area. A sizable portion of these do not explode on impact, leaving bomblets lying around as de facto land mines. I remember we had some of these grenades in the artillery when I was conscripted in the army. We rarely fired them, partly because they were a mess to clear up afterwards.

There is no moral arguement here. They are horrible weapons due to the undetonated bomblets they scatter around, BUT they have "military value" so the US will never agree to stop using them, as any other weapon they find a use for.

Peace
Dan

Guess Mel Brooks was right... it's good to be the king. :(

Drowned Out

CJMST3K wrote:

Until North Korea becomes less of a concern, I can't say I disagree too much with Obama, Bush & Clinton on this.

http://www.globalissues.org/article/79/landmines

All ths link says about North Korea is that the US wants to maintain their use in the demilitarized zone.
Where is the logic in that? Are they worried about north Korean terrorists? Or a land invasion from the North?
Do you think this threat warrants littering miles of land with indiscrimminate, hidden bombs? What are you 'not disagreeing' with too much?

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

wouldn't some corporation be chomping at the bit to get a no-bid contract for billions of dollars to remove said landmines?? maybe the lobbyists for the military industrial complex are losing influence????

I don't think they're losing influence-- just the opposite, actually. I think this is a classic example of the landmine manufacturers having more influence ($) than whatever company that could come and and gain a contract to remove landmines.
.

Info in CJMST3K's link says landmines are not currently manufactured in the US (?). I'd bet Dan has it right with the proxy technology. They probably won't sign it because the language doesn't allow them to play with their newer toys either.

Pepe Silvia

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

wouldn't some corporation be chomping at the bit to get a no-bid contract for billions of dollars to remove said landmines?? maybe the lobbyists for the military industrial complex are losing influence????

I don't think they're losing influence-- just the opposite, actually. I think this is a classic example of the landmine manufacturers having more influence ($) than whatever company that could come and and gain a contract to remove landmines.

I know someone that has several patents for technology that would have saved American lives in the battlefield right now from IEDs. It is robotic technology that disarms bombs with a laser-- I've seen his video demonstration of it all, and it's very interesting stuff. He has signed contracts with the army and has been pushing to get this stuff manufactured and in the field for years. He has given speaking engagements and demonstrations at the pentagon, and he just keeps getting the yellow and red light from the Dept. of Defense-- all the while, people are losing limbs and lives out there. Four years later, he's still no farther than when he started. Bottomline: stuff NEEDS to get blown up for a very small group of businesses out there to profit immensely-- his ideas only get in the way. The other day, he said to me, "They can ram through any piece of legislation they want, and allocate billions of dollars at a time for any purpose at all, including 'stimulus'-- but they can't push through some small, effective, and inexpensive machinery to help out the troops." Sadly, it's true-- the lives of the soldiers are not important enough when there is money to be made.

He's Joe Schmoe with a great idea-- not Lockheed Martin with some incredibly wasteful ideas, and that's why he will only continue to be strung along, waiting for the green light that's never going to come, or come far too late.

Very good points Vinny. it is very disheartening to me to know that there is technology to protect soldiers from IEDS and it is being sandbagged by the powers that be. the saddest thing is that maybe if he sold the idea to lockheed martin it might gain some traction....

not to mention how many lives could've been saved by technology already being used like body armor and armor plating for their vehicles....

Pepe Silvia

Drowned Out wrote:

CJMST3K wrote:

Until North Korea becomes less of a concern, I can't say I disagree too much with Obama, Bush & Clinton on this.

http://www.globalissues.org/article/79/landmines

All ths link says about North Korea is that the US wants to maintain their use in the demilitarized zone.
Where is the logic in that? Are they worried about north Korean terrorists? Or a land invasion from the North?
Do you think this threat warrants littering miles of land with indiscrimminate, hidden bombs? What are you 'not disagreeing' with too much?

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

wouldn't some corporation be chomping at the bit to get a no-bid contract for billions of dollars to remove said landmines?? maybe the lobbyists for the military industrial complex are losing influence????

I don't think they're losing influence-- just the opposite, actually. I think this is a classic example of the landmine manufacturers having more influence ($) than whatever company that could come and and gain a contract to remove landmines.
.

Info in CJMST3K's link says landmines are not currently manufactured in the US (?). I'd bet Dan has it right with the proxy technology. They probably won't sign it because the language doesn't allow them to play with their newer toys either.

yes, dan makes a great point as a basic landmine makes no sense relating to the statement about not being able to meet our national defense and security commitments and i seriously doubt it was landmines all these years that kept north korea from invading

cluster bombs, DU weaponry, DIME weaponry, white phosphorous....all should be banned weapons in my opinion