If McCandless Read Ishmael....

fyreguy73

Just on McCandless, the good people of Fairbanks, Alaska are talking about removing "bus 142" where Christopher died to a more accessible location for tourists to visits. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS?

fyreguy73

Have a look at,

http://www.flickr.com a person named akfirebug has some good photos of "bus 142".

pjalive21

Chris1401 wrote:

Hey buddy, where the fuck do I say Ishmael is a spot on, professional work that articulates theory the best it could?

No where, so if you're going to take shots a people's comments you don't agree with, awesome, go for it, but at least quote a person which would help prove your case...which is not my original post.

My original post was relevant at two levels to some PJ fans and wasn't meant to praise one or both works being compared.

it wasnt a shot at you personally...sorry you took it that way, i always quote the original poster when they ask a question...

the discussion of ishmael has been in other forums for months and this is where i got my comments on it from

once again sorry if you felt it was directed at you

Heineken Helen

Riverrunner wrote:

I really wish he had survived. I would love to read his book (which I think he would have written). But then again, if he had survived, we would probably have never heard of him and probably not bought his book.

read 'call of the wild' by Guy Grieves... if McCandless had done everything right, and survived, this would have been his book

Riverrunner

No Way wrote:

I think that a lot of us identify with the romantic idea of cutting loose all of the restraints society can put on us, and living a truly free life, with no strings attached.

Oh yeah. I really wish that before I had taken on all the responsibilities of adult hood that I had backpacked around Europe, or joined the Peace Corp for a couple of years, or lived in the outback for a few months. I think I would have learned a lot about life and myself sooner than I actually did.

NO WAY wrote:

Chris realized too late that he could not find true happiness without a little of the benefits that society does have to offer, and that is companionship, friendship, or on a deeper level, love. It's hard to find love when you're alone in the middle of the wilderness. He said that he was seeking truth, and I think he found that truth at the very end of his journey: It's already been sung, but it can't be said enough . . .

In the movie didn't Chris make a comment to Ron Franz that you don't need a relationship (or something) to be happy? That you can find happiness in nature or freedom, or something like that? At the time I thought it was rather insightful because I thought Chris was trying to emphasize that happiness comes from within and that maybe people are too dependent on trying to "find someone" or find someone to make them happy. However, by the end of the movie I was thinking that he meant that you had to break away from people you had relationships with to be happy and I didn't think that was insightful nor correct. And as you say if that is what he meant originally then he found out it wasn't true. Most people need others to love and to love them, even if happiness comes from within. O.K. now I'm rambling and probably not making myself clear so I will quit.

Heineken Helen

well what he found out in the end is that happiness is only real when shared... which is true. Human's are meant to be free, I believe, but we're also social creatures and not meant to be isolated from eachother. Isolation from society is all well and good but isolation from humanity is not :(

Riverrunner

Heineken Helen wrote:

read 'call of the wild' by Guy Grieves... if McCandless had done everything right, and survived, this would have been his book

I need to start a book list based on recommendations from this forum. I don't get to read for fun very often (I do an awful lot for my job so in my down time I like to move, i.e. run, cycle, hike), but when I do get the opportunity to read for fun then I don't know what to buy and I forget what other people recommended.

And I do like to read outdoorsy stuff since that is what we do for fun.

pieceofdust

Riverrunner wrote:

Oh yeah. I really wish that before I had taken on all the responsibilities of adult hood that I had backpacked around Europe, or joined the Peace Corp for a couple of years, or lived in the outback for a few months. I think I would have learned a lot about life and myself sooner than I actually did.


In the movie didn't Chris make a comment to Ron Franz that you don't need a relationship (or something) to be happy? That you can find happiness in nature or freedom, or something like that? At the time I thought it was rather insightful because I thought Chris was trying to emphasize that happiness comes from within and that maybe people are too dependent on trying to "find someone" or find someone to make them happy. However, by the end of the movie I was thinking that he meant that you had to break away from people you had relationships with to be happy and I didn't think that was insightful nor correct. And as you say if that is what he meant originally then he found out it wasn't true. Most people need others to love and to love them, even if happiness comes from within. O.K. now I'm rambling and probably not making myself clear so I will quit.

One of the last things he does in the movie, and apparently in his life was write "Happiness only real when shared".

In response to the original question by the original poster (who for some reason has gotten a bad response out of people just by trying to have an interesting conversation), I don't know that Chris would have been ready to read Ishmael or any other book along those lines (I think Ishmael is great but I also think there are books that approach the subject much more intellectually). I think he had to go sort things out in his mind and bury some hachets before he was going to be open to books about community etc.

Heineken Helen

Riverrunner wrote:

I need to start a book list based on recommendations from this forum. I don't get to read for fun very often (I do an awful lot for my job so in my down time I like to move, i.e. run, cycle, hike), but when I do get the opportunity to read for fun then I don't know what to buy and I forget what other people recommended.

And I do like to read outdoorsy stuff since that is what we do for fun.

Yep, well then this one is definitley recommended.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Call-Wild-Guy-Grieve/dp/0340898240

Just get a piece of paper, write it down and, hey presto, you have a list

Riverrunner

Heineken Helen wrote:

Just get a piece of paper, write it down and, hey presto, you have a list

Been there done that. Well..... actually I didn't write, I typed. But anyway, I also added Krakaur's books Into Thin Air and Under the Banner of Heaven. I also wouldn't mind reading another book by Quinn.


Any other suggestions?

Heineken Helen

Riverrunner wrote:

Been there done that. Well..... actually I didn't write, I typed. But anyway, I also added Krakaur's books Into Thin Air and Under the Banner of Heaven. I also wouldn't mind reading another book by Quinn.


Any other suggestions?

Yep, lots of them:

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=256520&highlight=adventure+books

You're asking the right person :eek:

I've also been championing 'touching the void' by Joe Simpson and 'an unsung hero' by Michael Smith like they're my own books.

redmosquito10

i think its very easy for each of us to sit here after reading ishmael and criticize it as being overly simplistic, or a waste of time because we should be "doing" and not reading, writing, or discussing. The simple problem with this theory is that the vast majority of our society has no awareness of what "we"(the people who have read these types of books and hold these types of views) mean by doing. The average person never, to any significant depth or for any significant amount of time, actually contemplates what the best way is for humanity to move forward. They simply accept the blueprint laid out for them by society, and spend their lives in a quest for material goods. For this reason, it is extremely important that there are people who are not simply "doing". Humanity needs people who are willing to put this type of thought-process into a medium that is readily accessible to the general public, and every person who has written here that ishmael or into the wild or any other book has been life changing for them validates the worth of this process. In a sense, simply "doing" , while most likely the best path to personal freedom and happiness, is somewhat selfish in that the individual puts forth little or no effort to aid the rest of humanity in obtaining this same degree of freedom and happiness.