2017 Buffalo Bills - The hunt for a playoff berth

Last-12-Exit

imalive said:

call in the SAVIOR!!!

Looks like he was hanging out with Josh Gordon.

WhatYouTaughtMe

Last-12-Exit said:

imalive said:

call in the SAVIOR!!!

Looks like he was hanging out with Josh Gordon.

)

MayDay10

Last-12-Exit said:

I know he's not going to develop like manning. My point was just to say I think they are pulling the trigger to cast. I forgot they traded down. My point was exactly what you said. They could have gotten him in the second or third round.

My second point is why bench him? The alternative is not an improvement. If they went out and signed a better backup, sure sit him. But Orton is not the answer. I agree that he's not developing as quickly as be should be. But how many games has he started? 12 or 13? They need consistency. That isn't going to happen by bouncing back and forth between Manuel and Orton.

The coach was in the hit seat the second that team was bought. All this is is an attempt to stay the coach the whole season ( which I don't think he will). Take your lumps, let him finish the year. If no major improvement is seen, then move on and find another qb.

There is talent in this offense. The defense is good. The formula is there to win. They just need to find it.

You said it yourself. There is talent on offense and the defense is good. This team reminds me a lot, ironically of the 2012 Denver Broncos with Tebow (and Orton benched as backup). The whole offense was predicated on smoke and mirrors and hiding Tebow's obvious flaws in order to allow the defense to hold teams to under 15 points and somehow Tebow just kept getting lucky at the end... and they benefited from being in an awful division.

You can see it in the offensive playcalling. It is very simple, predictable, all built around Manuel's shortcomings and is severely limiting what these weapons can do. A guy like Orton can deliver the ball to receivers. He has the experience to read defenses and go through a progression. Orton isnt great, but provides a much higher ceiling for this team. He will be capable of having big 300 yard days.

Unless Orton is a complete disaster or gets injured, I think this is it for Manuel. Pegula is going to lay down a mandate for whoever he selects to run this team that they need to find the franchise QB at all costs. I think a guy like Orton can be a serviceable 2 year placeholder and with these weapons can get the team to the playoffs.

Just look at Bridgewater, Glennon, and Bortles this weekend. Its a young man's league now. QBs dont need (or allowed) to have years to develop. EJ is exactly what everyone said he would be. No team would be interested in him.

Manuel is really, really bad and I dont believe he is ever going to be adequate. I feel bad because he seems like a good smart guy and a hard worker. He just has no accuracy or poise. You really cant teach accuracy, especially when its this "broke" and deeply rooted into his mechanics.

davidtrios

Jason P

Boiler up!

Wobbie

Don't hate.

plus, he's making $5M this year!

MayDay10

sad, but he is the best QB to suit up for the Bills since Bledsoe.

The Juggler

ej manuel career stats (only 14 games)
comp 58.6%
td% 3.7%
int% 2.7%
rating 78.5

kyle orton career stats
comp 58.5%
td% 3.7%
int% 2.6%
rating 79.9


good luck, buffalo!

Last-12-Exit

The Juggler said:

ej manuel career stats (only 14 games)
comp 58.6%
td% 3.7%
int% 2.7%
rating 78.5

kyle orton career stats
comp 58.5%
td% 3.7%
int% 2.6%
rating 79.9


good luck, buffalo!

The alternative isn't any better. Should just stick with Manuel. Or go get a better alternative.

MayDay10

The Juggler said:

ej manuel career stats (only 14 games)
comp 58.6%
td% 3.7%
int% 2.7%
rating 78.5

kyle orton career stats
comp 58.5%
td% 3.7%
int% 2.6%
rating 79.9


good luck, buffalo!

While Orton isnt very good... These stats are misleading. Throwing to WRs, Manuel has an awful %. Most of his completions are dumpoff to RBs because he cant read/adjust and doesnt have the accuracy to hit WRs. When he does hit them, it is not in stride... and often misses by a mile.

The Juggler

MayDay10 said:

The Juggler said:

ej manuel career stats (only 14 games)
comp 58.6%
td% 3.7%
int% 2.7%
rating 78.5

kyle orton career stats
comp 58.5%
td% 3.7%
int% 2.6%
rating 79.9


good luck, buffalo!

While Orton isnt very good... These stats are misleading. Throwing to WRs, Manuel has an awful %. Most of his completions are dumpoff to RBs because he cant read/adjust and doesnt have the accuracy to hit WRs. When he does hit them, it is not in stride... and often misses by a mile.

i think you might be able to say the same kind of thing about orton as well...and his stats are more pronounced as there's a much greater sample size.

my point is that orton's not going to take you guys to the super bowl. maybe he gets the bills an extra win because of his experience (maybe you win 8 instead of 7?). i just think it's stupid to dump manuel this soon, in favor of a below average qb. i would let manuel take his lumps this year and then reevaluate the qb situation. it sucks there is no first rounder next year but i think dumping him this soon, in favor of a qb like orton, will kill his confidence and derail any potential he may have had.

MayDay10

There is no potential with Manuel. He is a dud. Just like everyone outside of the Bills FO said. I dont know if you watch the Bills, but his attempts at passing are Tebow-Like. He has no future and the Bills are better off moving on and admitting it now.

Orton will at least be capable to hit WRs and prevent defenses from putting 8 dudes in the box and stopping FJ and Spiller. Defenses have basically figured out if you dare Manuel to throw over 5 yards... he cant.

Maybe Orton can find a groove and be a stopgap for this year and next. Maybe a QB will fall past the 1st round who (the new) GM likes. Maybe they can get Cousins? Kellen Moore?



Dont mistake my enthusiasm as optimism for Orton (although he does provide a much better possibility to win this awful division). The Bills have screwed the pooch on QB and fucked themselves big time. They doubled down on Manuel in round 1. Doubled down again using an UDFA (Tuel) and a Practice Squad QB (Lewis) to back him up for more than a year (so Manuel couldnt feel threatened). Then they doubled down a 3rd time with the Watkins trade. These incompetent fools will be kicked to the curb once Pegula can take hold (maybe the end of the season).

The Juggler

why don't they give kevin kolb a call?

hahaha

Last-12-Exit

There IS potential with Manuel. A lot more than with Orton. If you think Orton gives buffalo a better chance to win, you never seen him play in Chicago or Denver. EJ has played in less than 16 NFL games. Let him play.

I'll spare everyone the suspense: Marone will be fired regardless of who is at QB. Even if they make the playoffs. He's done. Give EJ the chance to learn.

YLed2

Freddy. Boom Boom. Jackson.

You have got to have nothing but respect for that man. He is one guy playing, who you know and can tell just enjoys playing in the NFL. One of Coe College's very finest.

WhatYouTaughtMe

YLed2 said:

Freddy. Boom Boom. Jackson.

You have got to have nothing but respect for that man. He is one guy playing, who you know and can tell just enjoys playing in the NFL. One of Coe College's very finest.

He is fun to watch. Think of all the first round picks we have spent on rbs in the last dozen or so years and this guy is still out there. I like Spiller but I loved watching Lynch and Jackson take turns running guys over a few years back.

MayDay10

We could have had the wishbone with jackson, lynch, and spiller

MayDay10

Last-12-Exit said:

There IS potential with Manuel. A lot more than with Orton. If you think Orton gives buffalo a better chance to win

I guess this is where we just fundamentally disagree and are at opposite ends.

I dont any see potential with Manuel. He is busted in every way IMO. Mechanics, Arm strength, accuracy, field-smarts, and poise. Every negative trait he was labeled with by experts who pegged him as a low round QB are dead on... and he seems to be getting worse. If they released him today, I'm not sure any other team would even be interested in him. All week, I have seen people break down the film from the past 2 games and write about it. Plays are working, players are open and Manuel is not recognizing it and making the wrong play. When he does get it to a player it is erratic and the guy either has to stop and reach back, leap, go low (also risking a pounding, ask Watkins and Goodwin)... or the ball sails completely uncatchable. Manuel was an awful pick. Tall guy who is well spoken and has big hands. Doesnt mean squat.

With Orton, at least you have some experience and he gives them a better shot now (and next year). Not a great shot, but the book is out on Manuel. 8 in the box, neutralize Freddy and CJ, and dare EJ to pass it downfield and the offense is listless. 2 Games in a row now, and no doubt they would see that for the last 12 games, until EJ stretched a defense, which he is completely incapable of doing. If he stayed in there they would struggle to win 4-5 games total this season... without a 1st rounder. Maybe with Orton they can go .500 or just above the rest of the way and win the AFCE.

At the very least Orton is capable of gaining a vertical threat of some sort (as opposed to none), and will free up the engine of our offense, Jackson and Spiller.


But if you believe Manuel has a future, then everything I said is bunk.

You also have to remember... who the heck do the Bills employ that is even qualified to groom a project QB? Marrone (.500 college coach for Syracuse in a crappy conference), a 17 year old-looking OC who appears to be over his head... Orton?

MayDay10

good manuel article/column from before the draft
http://www.tomahawknation.com/2013/4/25/4264734/nfl-draft-2013-ej-manuel-next-level-florida-state

WhatYouTaughtMe

Painful game to watch but a win. I'd like to buy that Detroit kicker a beer or twelve. Both defensive lines were brutal. Sammy Watkins made a couple of great catches down the stretch.