Two minute silence... kinda angered me

Commy

MrSmith wrote:

basic respect and decency for a couple of minutes is way too much to ask from jaded people in today's world...

respecting state sponsored murderers is pretty far from decent

youngster

soulsinging wrote:

catefrances wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

isn't she living in the uk though? what did she expect? when in rome...

well yes she is.. but that doesnt mean one has to adhere to all their bullshit, does it??? anyhoo if she felt so strongly about it then she should have left the room,as she suggested. but she didnt hence the whinge.

no. but if i walked into a gay club and started bitching that there were no hot straight chicks... you wouldnt exactly feel for me would you? your reaction would be more... "well what the hell did you expect moron? go someplace else if it's such a problem for you..."

Great post!

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

Commy wrote:

MrSmith wrote:

basic respect and decency for a couple of minutes is way too much to ask from jaded people in today's world...

respecting state sponsored murderers is pretty far from decent

all soldiers are nothing but state sponsored murderers? thats an asshat thing to say.

TriumphantAngel

MrSmith wrote:

Commy wrote:

MrSmith wrote:

basic respect and decency for a couple of minutes is way too much to ask from jaded people in today's world...

respecting state sponsored murderers is pretty far from decent

all soldiers are nothing but state sponsored murderers? thats an asshat thing to say.

no, it's not an asshat thing to say. the war in Iraq is actually illegal under international law. the United States went in without a UN mandate right? so the soldiers are state sponsored murderers.

i am completely against the war. how can you be against the war and say you support the troops? that is one of the lamest, gutless, positions that a pacifist can take. kinda the same as if the one damn lesson they took away from Vietnam wasn't to avoid foreign conflicts with no pressing national interest, but to remember to throw a parade afterward.

i'm also pretty damn sure that the majority of soldiers are good guys, the sort of guys i'd love to have a beer with and a laugh with. no problems at all. same as i have no problem with other people who are in favour of the Iraq war, supporting the troops. If you think invading Iraq was a good idea, then by all means, support away. just don't tell me that i am an asshat for thinking/feeling like i do.

for me, blindly lending support to our soldiers, will keep them overseas longer by giving soft acquiescence to the fuckers who sent them there, and who might one day want to send them somewhere else. I do sympathize with people who joined up to protect our country, especially after 9/11, and were tricked into fighting in Iraq.

i'll support, and continue to campaign for, their need for hospitals, pensions, mental health and a safe, immediate return.

no more war.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

TriumphantAngel wrote:

no, it's not an asshat thing to say. the war in Iraq is actually illegal under international law. the United States went in without a UN mandate right? so the soldiers are state sponsored murderers..

sure it is, and i don't know how a UN mandate makes a war legitimate. its a joke. not that i think IRaq war is legal or right either.

TriumphantAngel wrote:

i am completely against the war. how can you be against the war and say you support the troops? that is one of the lamest, gutless, positions that a pacifist can take. kinda the same as if the one damn lesson they took away from Vietnam wasn't to avoid foreign conflicts with no pressing national interest, but to remember to throw a parade afterward.

you're right. thats why i'm not a pacifist.

TriumphantAngel wrote:

i'm also pretty damn sure that the majority of soldiers are good guys, the sort of guys i'd love to have a beer with and a laugh with. no problems at all. same as i have no problem with other people who are in favour of the Iraq war, supporting the troops. If you think invading Iraq was a good idea, then by all means, support away. just don't tell me that i am an asshat for thinking/feeling like i do.

for me, blindly lending support to our soldiers, will keep them overseas longer by giving soft acquiescence to the fuckers who sent them there, and who might one day want to send them somewhere else. I do sympathize with people who joined up to protect our country, especially after 9/11, and were tricked into fighting in Iraq.

i'll support their need for hospitals, pensions, mental health and a safe, immediate return.

no more war.

exactly, which is why you can show respect to soldiers for two minutes without supporting the shithead politicians who manipulate their sacrifice for their own purposes. instead of calling them murderers. which is fucking stupid.

Commy

MrSmith wrote:

TriumphantAngel wrote:

no more war.

exactly, which is why you can show respect to soldiers for two minutes without supporting the shithead politicians who manipulate their sacrifice for their own purposes. instead of calling them murderers. which is fucking stupid.

"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."

- Voltaire

Heineken Helen

soulsinging wrote:

catefrances wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

isn't she living in the uk though? what did she expect? when in rome...

well yes she is.. but that doesnt mean one has to adhere to all their bullshit, does it??? anyhoo if she felt so strongly about it then she should have left the room,as she suggested. but she didnt hence the whinge.

no. but if i walked into a gay club and started bitching that there were no hot straight chicks... you wouldnt exactly feel for me would you? your reaction would be more... "well what the hell did you expect moron? go someplace else if it's such a problem for you..."

Strangely enough... two of my colleagues actually felt the same... not quite as strongly though. Of the four of us on our team, only one was pro the silence. I know it was nothing against me personally and, if they thought I might be a TINY bit offended, they're the kinda people who would make all kinds of arrangements to sort that out. I don't like making a big deal but I do like to whinge the odd time and it did make me very uncomfortable.

Heineken Helen

brandon10 wrote:

I think what some here are failing to realize is Helen's disdain for the bullshit. I don't think her problem was so much about Irish/English as it was about fake rememberance.

These drones put on their poppies for a day or two and observe two minutes of silence, then many of them forget about war and soldiers minutes or days later. I think she is saying as someone who is constantly reflecting on war/peace, she doesn't need to wear a poppie or have a moment of silence. At least that's how I understood it.

edit:being Irish in England just made it worse.

Thank you... very well said.

The fact that we've learned absolutely NOTHING from these things that we're supposed to 'never forget' seriously does piss me off. I respect peoples rights to respectfully remember... absolutely... and that's why I didn't walk out... cos I certainly didn't want to offend anyone and don't know about anyone's personal experiences, etc. I think when en masse emails like that are sent out though, there should absolutely be an option to abstain.

Luckily for me, one of the management didn't realise there was a silence going on and was on her phone for the first minute so that was quite funny watching everyone squirm until someone put a note in front of her... she was so embarrassed

Heineken Helen

chime wrote:

I know where I work there was a message saying that at 11 there would be an announcement for anyone who wanted to observe the two minute Armistace Day silence.

I think it was a badly worded e-mail at your firm and that isn't how everyone handles it.

I know at school we were always taught to think of all soldiers that had died on all sides. This year in the UK was the first we had without a living WWI veteran. I remember one of the last to pass would remind everyone to remember all those who were lost on both sides so we wouldn't repeat their mistakes so it's not necessarily about glorifying war but remembering young men and women who lost their lives far too early.

I know when I buy a poppy (or several as they seem to get lost) it's been from the same WWII veteran for the last few years who sits in the cold train station all day (I see him as I arrive for work and as I leave to go home) for two weeks every year. A lot of us do think about why we are buying poppies although we may not be vocal about it.

I'm not religous but agree with the seniment of this from yesterday's Armistice Day service in relation to the passing of the last UK WWI veterans and the end of their generation:

"May we learn the lessons they learned, and God save us from learning them in the way they had to”

Nice post... I agree it was badly worded and I would say very little thought was put into the email. I appreciate many of you DO know why you're buying poppies. I think some though simply like the opportunity to WEAR something to show that they're doing something... like when it comes to daffodil day too (don't get me started )

See that is definintely a nice sentiment... but it's one that we say quite often... and is always forgotten. If people genuinely stuck to sentiments like that, fine... but generally they don't.

Heineken Helen

nuffingman wrote:

If you don't like the customs of the country where you live then leave.

If you can't spend 2 minutes once a year thinking of the people who died in conflict then it's a sad, sad world.

Isn't remembrance day throughout the world??? I'm pretty sure they have the ceremony in my own country too :?

I spend much more than 2 minutes a year thinking of the people who died in conflict :roll:

Heineken Helen

Claireack wrote:

Don't know how I missed this thread.

I don't like war or fighting of any kind really. But my grandad, greatgrandad, brother, brother-in-law and countless relatives are/were in the army. My brother and brother-in-law are currently in the services, this year alone my brother was in Afganistan and my brother-in-law was in Iraq. A lot of the patients I see at work are war veterans and everything they saw is still very alive in their minds. A lot of them during WWII didn't have much choice whether to go or not, they were drafted.

To me it's just showing a little respect to keep the 2 minutes silence/wear a poppy. You don't have to do it if you don't want to, just show respect for those who do.

I did... absolutely.

I understand completely... but the wars are no longer separated... now they feel the need to lump Iraq in with WWI & II. If it were simply for the world wars, I probably wouldn't have a problem... but in my place it wasn't. Not all the people I was asked to respect were drafted. I agree the draft is a horrible thing... and I certainly sympathise with anyone who was.

FinsburyParkCarrots

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VvGfRV89fs

Heineken Helen

TriumphantAngel wrote:

MrSmith wrote:

Commy wrote:

respecting state sponsored murderers is pretty far from decent

all soldiers are nothing but state sponsored murderers? thats an asshat thing to say.

no, it's not an asshat thing to say. the war in Iraq is actually illegal under international law. the United States went in without a UN mandate right? so the soldiers are state sponsored murderers.

i am completely against the war. how can you be against the war and say you support the troops? that is one of the lamest, gutless, positions that a pacifist can take. kinda the same as if the one damn lesson they took away from Vietnam wasn't to avoid foreign conflicts with no pressing national interest, but to remember to throw a parade afterward.

i'm also pretty damn sure that the majority of soldiers are good guys, the sort of guys i'd love to have a beer with and a laugh with. no problems at all. same as i have no problem with other people who are in favour of the Iraq war, supporting the troops. If you think invading Iraq was a good idea, then by all means, support away. just don't tell me that i am an asshat for thinking/feeling like i do.

for me, blindly lending support to our soldiers, will keep them overseas longer by giving soft acquiescence to the fuckers who sent them there, and who might one day want to send them somewhere else. I do sympathize with people who joined up to protect our country, especially after 9/11, and were tricked into fighting in Iraq.

i'll support, and continue to campaign for, their need for hospitals, pensions, mental health and a safe, immediate return.

no more war.

Nice post... I hope its meaning doesn't get overlooked.

Smellyman

more remembrance of innocent civilians killed would be more prudent.

Heineken Helen

Smellyman wrote:

more remembrance of innocent civilians killed would be more prudent.

It's a shame those two minutes don't exist... when it would be the more obvious one if ya think about it. If there were such a day, it would be laughed off as something branded by 'bleeding heart liberals'

Surely there can't be somebody more worthy of remembrance than innocent people killed in wars who WEREN'T fighting on either side. It's so simple it will NEVER catch on.

so-much-clearer

Smellyman wrote:

more remembrance of innocent civilians killed would be more prudent.

This.