Obama + Health Care Bill = Corporate Profits

worldworld Posts: 266
edited November 2009 in A Moving Train
Ok, now we are forcing people to buy health insurance from private companies. The enrollment of 126 million people has been reduced to 6 million in the now stripped down "public option".

Im calling it now, buy stock in the health care companies, their profits are about to soar. The assholes that have been screwing us with bad health care bought Obama and the rest of the democrats. Now Obama is forcing us to give them our money.

I really though Obama would give us Health Care that the rest of the world enjoys, maybe even a better system. The current bill also bans states from switching to single-payer also.

Change? Hope? Ive lived in the Chicagoland area my entire life and saw this coming.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

NObama in 2012
Chicago '98, Noblesville '00, East Troy '00, Chicago '00, Champaign '03, Chicago '03, Chicago1 '06, Chicago2 '06, Milwaukee '06, Chicago1 '09, and Chicago2 '09
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • I'm with you, pal. Mandating that people buy expensive insurance (if you've seen any of the forecasts, a basic policy will cost about what it costs now under the rapacious insurance company monopoly) from for-profit corporations is just plain fascism. Mussolini called his brand of government "the corporate state." Government and business working hand in hand. That's what this bill means. Buy insurance or pay a fine. The bill also allows the option of jail time. (What's nice about that is you get healthcare in jail.)

    I can't stand the idea of being on the same side as Republicans and the rightwingers who rant about "government-run healthcare." I am all FOR govt-run healthcare. This is not govt-run healthcare. This is a govt-run boondoggle. This is the government giving our money to for-profit corporations.... corporations who routinely let people die rather than pay for the care they need. As a lifelong left-wing Democrat, I am saddened that it's the D party bringing this on. Nader was right after all.

    Only in BizzaroWorld would this be called "reform."

    If you agree, tell your Senators, folks. Maybe the bill will die there.

    ((( Pardon the rant. )))
  • worldworld Posts: 266
    Yeah, I just dont see how increasing troop deployment in Afgan, forcing us to buy private health care, marijuana laws still being ignored, and gay rights on the shelf is CHANGE?!?!

    change my ass, just more of the same
    Chicago '98, Noblesville '00, East Troy '00, Chicago '00, Champaign '03, Chicago '03, Chicago1 '06, Chicago2 '06, Milwaukee '06, Chicago1 '09, and Chicago2 '09
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    I have a question...
    How do you get access to Health Care... without buying insurance?
    ...
    I guess, you could pay for your doctor's visits... I think you can swing that...
    ...
    But, what happens when your doctor tells you that you have cancer?
    What do you do... if you can't pay for cancer treatments?
    ...
    I guess it means... you die.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Cosmo wrote:
    I have a question...
    How do you get access to Health Care... without buying insurance?
    ...
    I guess, you could pay for your doctor's visits... I think you can swing that...
    ...
    But, what happens when your doctor tells you that you have cancer?
    What do you do... if you can't pay for cancer treatments?
    ...
    I guess it means... you die.

    This is an excerpt of something I posted this in another thread, but it addresses your cancer concern:
    "A recent report published in the Lancet, showed that Britain has one of the worst five-year cancer survival rates in Europe and certainly well behind the best in the study, the United States. England has a female cancer survival rate of only 52.7 per cent, compared with 62.9 per cent for the United States or 61.8 per cent for Iceland. Britain performed poorer than former communist countries such as Slovenia, not to mention Spain and Malta. For males, a similar story is told, with England having a survival rate of only 44.8 per cent compared with the United States at 66.3 per cent. Again, below Spain, Ireland and Italy.
    Around the same time another report on strokes appeared in the British Medical Journal that reported that Britain had some of the poorest stroke treatment rates in Europe. "

    "Official NHS monthly figures for June showed that 236,316 patients faced a wait of more than 18 weeks between GP referral and admission for hospital treatment."

    Even with Obama/Pelosicare, you're still more likely to die!!!
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Cosmo wrote:
    I have a question...
    How do you get access to Health Care... without buying insurance?
    ...
    I guess, you could pay for your doctor's visits... I think you can swing that...
    ...
    But, what happens when your doctor tells you that you have cancer?
    What do you do... if you can't pay for cancer treatments?
    ...
    I guess it means... you die.

    This is an excerpt of something I posted this in another thread, but it addresses your cancer concern:
    "A recent report published in the Lancet, showed that Britain has one of the worst five-year cancer survival rates in Europe and certainly well behind the best in the study, the United States. England has a female cancer survival rate of only 52.7 per cent, compared with 62.9 per cent for the United States or 61.8 per cent for Iceland. Britain performed poorer than former communist countries such as Slovenia, not to mention Spain and Malta. For males, a similar story is told, with England having a survival rate of only 44.8 per cent compared with the United States at 66.3 per cent. Again, below Spain, Ireland and Italy.
    Around the same time another report on strokes appeared in the British Medical Journal that reported that Britain had some of the poorest stroke treatment rates in Europe. "

    "Official NHS monthly figures for June showed that 236,316 patients faced a wait of more than 18 weeks between GP referral and admission for hospital treatment."

    Even with Obama/Pelosicare, you're still more likely to die!!!
    ...
    What I get from that...
    "Don't follow the British model".
    ...
    It still don't know how someone can pay for expensive Cancer treatments... if they DON'T have insurance. If they can pay the bill, then, okay. If paying the bill means they lose their house and everything they own... but, they keep their life... then, okay. It was THEIR choice to NOT pay for any insurance... but, they will STILL want the expensive Cancer treatments.
    The initial message was about the 'Facist movement to force everyone to buy Health Care Insurance".
    It's the same thing with auto insurance... why should those of us who pay our insurance... pay for those who are using the same roads as us? If they get in an accident... who pays for their medical expenses? Or... should we just let them die?
    I don't think it's a bad thing... if the people who do not have insurance have to face the responsibility of their actions. If you want access to health Care... and the insurance that you will not make everyone else pay for your poor choice (to be an uninsured Health care user), then, you have to pay your fair share.
    Otherwise, you can sell off all of your stuff and keep your life... or keep all your stuff and die of Cancer. You make the decision whether or not to buy into the insurance coverage or not... you need to live or die with your decisions.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • What I get from that...
    "Don't follow the British model".
    ...
    It still don't know how someone can pay for expensive Cancer treatments... if they DON'T have insurance.

    That was basically my point. The British and Canadian systems are single-payer and don't work. The so-called "public option" will eventually morph into a single-payer system. The bill passed the other day allows large companies to pay a "penalty" of 8% of their total payroll if they don't offer their employees coverage. Most companies are spending WAY more than 8% of payroll on health care right now.

    The bill also outlaws the purchase of private health insurance beginning in 2013. The public option would be your ONLY choice.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    ...
    The bill also outlaws the purchase of private health insurance beginning in 2013. The public option would be your ONLY choice.
    ...
    Really?
    Which bill are you talking about... the one that the House just passed?
    I will need to check this out... unless you can point me to the specific section... which would be much appreciated.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    here is the Bill...
    http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf
    specifically...
    Check Title III, Subtitle B (page 211, line 5)...
    I admit... I've only glanced over it... but, I could NOT find the outlawing of Private Insurance Companies... someone is going to have to point that out to me.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • aerialaerial Posts: 2,319
    If you don’t want to drive you don’t have to have auto insurance and you are not fined....I posted about the fine for not having health Insurance weeks ago and no one here believed me....yes us Tea Party people DO know what’s going on.....there even talking about jail time if you don’t pay the fine....and now we will be paying for health care that won’t even start till 2012. They could have tweaked the system we have already but they really don’t care about our health . . . they care about the dollar, that they preach is so bad ( hypocrites!) . . . this administration is feeding the public a line of shit, but some turn around an act as if the Tea Party movement is the bad guy . . . I don’t understand how people can’t see they are being taken.
    This plan may not even be legal
    I don’t want my country “fundamentally changed” I just want it Improved...
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    aerial wrote:
    If you don’t want to drive you don’t have to have auto insurance and you are not fined....I posted about the fine for not having health Insurance weeks ago and no one here believed me....yes us Tea Party people DO know what’s going on.....there even talking about jail time if you don’t pay the fine....and now we will be paying for health care that won’t even start till 2012. They could have tweaked the system we have already but they really don’t care about our health . . . they care about the dollar, that they preach is so bad ( hypocrites!) . . . this administration is feeding the public a line of shit, but some turn around an act as if the Tea Party movement is the bad guy . . . I don’t understand how people can’t see they are being taken.
    This plan may not even be legal
    I don’t want my country “fundamentally changed” I just want it Improved...
    ...
    I referenced the Bill... can you point out these items? Because this is what passed... if what you say is true.. they HAVE to be in there. But... where?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • worldworld Posts: 266
    Ok, then tell me this. Why did the only two congressmen who give the middle finger to donations from corporations, Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul two guys from both sides of the aisle who actually care about us, both VOTE NO against this bill?

    Every other politician is a corporate backed puppet compared to these two guys. One is Dem the other is GOP. Yet they both agree that we are getting screwed with this deal.

    This is like a Bush third term. Prisons are filling up with pot users, soldiers are dieing in unending wars, and gay people are still 2nd class citizens.

    btw, the "public option" isnt anything like single payer, they stripped it down to crap before the vote. Good luck getting health care through that.
    Chicago '98, Noblesville '00, East Troy '00, Chicago '00, Champaign '03, Chicago '03, Chicago1 '06, Chicago2 '06, Milwaukee '06, Chicago1 '09, and Chicago2 '09
  • aerialaerial Posts: 2,319
    Cosmo wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    If you don’t want to drive you don’t have to have auto insurance and you are not fined....I posted about the fine for not having health Insurance weeks ago and no one here believed me....yes us Tea Party people DO know what’s going on.....there even talking about jail time if you don’t pay the fine....and now we will be paying for health care that won’t even start till 2012. They could have tweaked the system we have already but they really don’t care about our health . . . they care about the dollar, that they preach is so bad ( hypocrites!) . . . this administration is feeding the public a line of shit, but some turn around an act as if the Tea Party movement is the bad guy . . . I don’t understand how people can’t see they are being taken.
    This plan may not even be legal
    I don’t want my country “fundamentally changed” I just want it Improved...
    ...
    I referenced the Bill... can you point out these items? Because this is what passed... if what you say is true.. they HAVE to be in there. But... where?


    Just read the bill
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    aerial wrote:
    If you don’t want to drive you don’t have to have auto insurance and you are not fined....I posted about the fine for not having health Insurance weeks ago and no one here believed me....yes us Tea Party people DO know what’s going on.....there even talking about jail time if you don’t pay the fine....and now we will be paying for health care that won’t even start till 2012. They could have tweaked the system we have already but they really don’t care about our health . . . they care about the dollar, that they preach is so bad ( hypocrites!) . . . this administration is feeding the public a line of shit, but some turn around an act as if the Tea Party movement is the bad guy . . . I don’t understand how people can’t see they are being taken.
    This plan may not even be legal
    I don’t want my country “fundamentally changed” I just want it Improved...

    i dont know what state you live in, but here in ohio we get fined if we dont have car insurance.
  • Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    The bill also outlaws the purchase of private health insurance beginning in 2013. The public option would be your ONLY choice.
    ...
    Really?
    Which bill are you talking about... the one that the House just passed?
    I will need to check this out... unless you can point me to the specific section... which would be much appreciated.

    Yes, the one that just passed. It's in a sub-section titled "Limitation on New Enrollments". The bill establishes a "health care exchange", and forbids anyone to buy a policy that doesn't qualify for the "exchange". That gives the "Commissioner" (Health Care Czar?), whoever that will be, the power to set the terms (via regulations) for plans to qualify for the "exchange". You could keep your current plan as long as you didn't want to change the terms at some point. If you did, you would be forced in to a plan that qualifies for the "exchange".
  • brandon10brandon10 Posts: 1,114
    aerial wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    If you don’t want to drive you don’t have to have auto insurance and you are not fined....I posted about the fine for not having health Insurance weeks ago and no one here believed me....yes us Tea Party people DO know what’s going on.....there even talking about jail time if you don’t pay the fine....and now we will be paying for health care that won’t even start till 2012. They could have tweaked the system we have already but they really don’t care about our health . . . they care about the dollar, that they preach is so bad ( hypocrites!) . . . this administration is feeding the public a line of shit, but some turn around an act as if the Tea Party movement is the bad guy . . . I don’t understand how people can’t see they are being taken.
    This plan may not even be legal
    I don’t want my country “fundamentally changed” I just want it Improved...
    ...
    I referenced the Bill... can you point out these items? Because this is what passed... if what you say is true.. they HAVE to be in there. But... where?


    Just read the bill

    It's people like you that have given these politcians the ability to fuck over the American people. I agree that this bill is bullshit. But it's right-wingers like you that keep America from getting true health care reform. All insurance companies should be eliminated. But because of people like you this country never progresses. People and politicians end up debating trivial shit like flagpins instead of focusing on real change.

    You should probably leave the pissing and moaning about Obama to us libs. Then maybe some real change can be effected.
  • JR8805JR8805 Posts: 169
    I don't like the bill from the perspective of the choice limitation. I'm not against people having to have insurance. I also support car insurance. It is unfair for people who have insurance to carry everyone else, whether you're talking car or health insurance. Turning uninsured people away from emergency rooms could be tantamount to murder, so it is not an option. So, all the whiners carrying on about having to actually pay something for health insurance up front instead of when and if they get around to it can just shut up, in my opinion. It's way past time they pay their fair share one way or another. Everyone will use doctors and hospitals eventually. It's myopic and actually willfully stupid to say it won't happen to you. Unless you get hit by a car today and die instantly, yes it will. If everyone paid for their health care, then the insured wouldn't have to do it all. I'm sick of being discriminated against by people too cheap to take responsibility for themselves and then taking care of themselves on my dime when they do get sick. Not directed at any one person specifically, but at the willfully uninsured in general--grow up. And while you're at it, grow a pair that the government doesn't have to pay for you to grow later at a much higher price to me.
  • aerialaerial Posts: 2,319
    aerial wrote:
    If you don’t want to drive you don’t have to have auto insurance and you are not fined....I posted about the fine for not having health Insurance weeks ago and no one here believed me....yes us Tea Party people DO know what’s going on.....there even talking about jail time if you don’t pay the fine....and now we will be paying for health care that won’t even start till 2012. They could have tweaked the system we have already but they really don’t care about our health . . . they care about the dollar, that they preach is so bad ( hypocrites!) . . . this administration is feeding the public a line of shit, but some turn around an act as if the Tea Party movement is the bad guy . . . I don’t understand how people can’t see they are being taken.
    This plan may not even be legal
    I don’t want my country “fundamentally changed” I just want it Improved...

    i dont know what state you live in, but here in ohio we get fined if we dont have car insurance.

    If you choose not to drive in fla. you are not forced to buy insurance.
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • aerialaerial Posts: 2,319
    edited November 2009
    aerial wrote:
    If you don’t want to drive you don’t have to have auto insurance and you are not fined....I posted about the fine for not having health Insurance weeks ago and no one here believed me....yes us Tea Party people DO know what’s going on.....there even talking about jail time if you don’t pay the fine....and now we will be paying for health care that won’t even start till 2012. They could have tweaked the system we have already but they really don’t care about our health . . . they care about the dollar, that they preach is so bad ( hypocrites!) . . . this administration is feeding the public a line of shit, but some turn around an act as if the Tea Party movement is the bad guy . . . I don’t understand how people can’t see they are being taken.
    This plan may not even be legal
    I don’t want my country “fundamentally changed” I just want it Improved...
    ...


    It's people like you that have given these politcians the ability to fuck over the American people. I agree that this bill is bullshit. But it's right-wingers like you that keep America from getting true health care reform. All insurance companies should be eliminated. But because of people like you this country never progresses. People and politicians end up debating trivial shit like flagpins instead of focusing on real change.

    You should probably leave the pissing and moaning about Obama to us libs. Then maybe some real change can be effected.[/quote][/quote]

    People like me are trying to stop this "bullshit Bill" so how did I cause this? Why can't they just help the uninsured and stop screwing with my insurance plan...... Because it's not about helping people it's about being greedy and hooking up big bussiness with more profits....WAKE UP...I am not your enemy!
    Post edited by aerial on
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    aerial wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    If you don’t want to drive you don’t have to have auto insurance and you are not fined....I posted about the fine for not having health Insurance weeks ago and no one here believed me....yes us Tea Party people DO know what’s going on.....there even talking about jail time if you don’t pay the fine....and now we will be paying for health care that won’t even start till 2012. They could have tweaked the system we have already but they really don’t care about our health . . . they care about the dollar, that they preach is so bad ( hypocrites!) . . . this administration is feeding the public a line of shit, but some turn around an act as if the Tea Party movement is the bad guy . . . I don’t understand how people can’t see they are being taken.
    This plan may not even be legal
    I don’t want my country “fundamentally changed” I just want it Improved...
    ...
    I referenced the Bill... can you point out these items? Because this is what passed... if what you say is true.. they HAVE to be in there. But... where?

    Just read the bill


    ...
    I did read the bill and I cannot find the part where we are going to be forced into the system or face fines or jailtime.
    You are the one making these accusations, not me. I am asking you to point out the portion of the bill that says I'm going to jail for not participating. Otherwise, I am left with not other options except to believe that you are either lying or passing on, YET ANOTHER, Tea Party lie.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    Cosmo wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    I referenced the Bill... can you point out these items? Because this is what passed... if what you say is true.. they HAVE to be in there. But... where?

    Just read the bill


    ...
    I did read the bill and I cannot find the part where we are going to be forced into the system or face fines or jailtime.
    You are the one making these accusations, not me. I am asking you to point out the portion of the bill that says I'm going to jail for not participating. Otherwise, I am left with not other options except to believe that you are either lying or passing on, YET ANOTHER, Tea Party lie.

    of course she did not read the bill Cosmo. and yes i think you have hit the nail on the head in this case yet again.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    aerial wrote:
    i dont know what state you live in, but here in ohio we get fined if we dont have car insurance.

    If you choose not to drive in fla. you are not forced to buy insurance.[/quote]
    ...
    So... what you are saying is... if you choose not to get cancer... you shouldn't have to get Health insurance.
    okay... that makes sense.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • yokeyoke Posts: 1,440
    aerial wrote:
    If you don’t want to drive you don’t have to have auto insurance and you are not fined....I posted about the fine for not having health Insurance weeks ago and no one here believed me....yes us Tea Party people DO know what’s going on.....there even talking about jail time if you don’t pay the fine....and now we will be paying for health care that won’t even start till 2012. They could have tweaked the system we have already but they really don’t care about our health . . . they care about the dollar, that they preach is so bad ( hypocrites!) . . . this administration is feeding the public a line of shit, but some turn around an act as if the Tea Party movement is the bad guy . . . I don’t understand how people can’t see they are being taken.
    This plan may not even be legal
    I don’t want my country “fundamentally changed” I just want it Improved...

    i dont know what state you live in, but here in ohio we get fined if we dont have car insurance.



    even if you don't own a car???
    Thats a lovely accent you have. New Jersey?

    www.seanbrady.net
  • the car insurance analogy only works if you consider suicide an alternative to paying for health insurance.

    Why? Because the logic leads us here: "Don't want to pay auto insurance? ok... don't drive. Don't want to pay health insurance? ok... don't live."
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • aerialaerial Posts: 2,319
    WOW how long did it take you to read the bill? You must have a lot of time on your hands. Do you think tearing down the entire system is necessary? Why not help the uninsured? If that’s the problem?
    After I work my full time job and get dinner together and get the home work done along with house cleaning and grocery shopping I will finish reading the bill. Oh, wait that is why I am paying congress.
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    aerial wrote:
    WOW how long did it take you to read the bill? You must have a lot of time on your hands. Do you think tearing down the entire system is necessary? Why not help the uninsured? If that’s the problem?
    After I work my full time job and get dinner together and get the home work done along with house cleaning and grocery shopping I will finish reading the bill. Oh, wait that is why I am paying congress.

    you are paying people you don't trust to read pending legislation? you told me to educate myself last week yet you have not read it? if people really want to read it they will find the time, just like anything else.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • OutOfBreathOutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    aerial wrote:
    WOW how long did it take you to read the bill? You must have a lot of time on your hands. Do you think tearing down the entire system is necessary? Why not help the uninsured? If that’s the problem?
    After I work my full time job and get dinner together and get the home work done along with house cleaning and grocery shopping I will finish reading the bill. Oh, wait that is why I am paying congress.

    I'll just point out that it's you who claim to know stuff about this bill, and dodge all over the place when simply asked where it says so. It would seem you dont really know either, and that you have that talking point from somewhere else. You could at least tell your source for the information, even if you havent read the bill. I imagine few really have anyway. But by claiming ignorance in others, you should be able to present some knowledge yourself, and not just along the lines of "Obama is a socialist, socialists are bad, and the bill is thus bad. The bill thus says everything I would consider bad".

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • aerialaerial Posts: 2,319
    aerial wrote:
    WOW how long did it take you to read the bill? You must have a lot of time on your hands. Do you think tearing down the entire system is necessary? Why not help the uninsured? If that’s the problem?
    After I work my full time job and get dinner together and get the home work done along with house cleaning and grocery shopping I will finish reading the bill. Oh, wait that is why I am paying congress.

    I'll just point out that it's you who claim to know stuff about this bill, and dodge all over the place when simply asked where it says so. It would seem you dont really know either, and that you have that talking point from somewhere else. You could at least tell your source for the information, even if you havent read the bill. I imagine few really have anyway. But by claiming ignorance in others, you should be able to present some knowledge yourself, and not just along the lines of "Obama is a socialist, socialists are bad, and the bill is thus bad. The bill thus says everything I would consider bad".

    Peace
    Dan
    How long did it take you to read the bill?
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • OutOfBreathOutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    aerial wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    WOW how long did it take you to read the bill? You must have a lot of time on your hands. Do you think tearing down the entire system is necessary? Why not help the uninsured? If that’s the problem?
    After I work my full time job and get dinner together and get the home work done along with house cleaning and grocery shopping I will finish reading the bill. Oh, wait that is why I am paying congress.

    I'll just point out that it's you who claim to know stuff about this bill, and dodge all over the place when simply asked where it says so. It would seem you dont really know either, and that you have that talking point from somewhere else. You could at least tell your source for the information, even if you havent read the bill. I imagine few really have anyway. But by claiming ignorance in others, you should be able to present some knowledge yourself, and not just along the lines of "Obama is a socialist, socialists are bad, and the bill is thus bad. The bill thus says everything I would consider bad".

    Peace
    Dan
    How long did it take you to read the bill?
    I havent read any of it. I'm not making any claims either.
    I was just pointing out that when you make claims, and are asked to back them up, you don't. Neither will you say from where you have that information. Instead you just flip it back "Have YOU read it", when the burden of proof is squarely on you as you make the claim.

    So, since you claim it, where does it say mandatory, fines and jailtime? Or, if you havent read the bill (which is honest enough as those things are indigestible to any sane reader), from where you got that information. Then we can at least know from where the passed-along claim comes.

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • aerialaerial Posts: 2,319
    I heard it on tv.
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    aerial wrote:
    I heard it on tv.
    ...
    and of course... everything that's on T.V. is truth.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
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