after posting the article i went to a friends house and we talked about what i had read and then listened to nevermind and came to the retrospect conclusion that nevermind is extremely slick in its production which kurt probably hated but utimately made him a sensation. whether you like it or not is just preference. my taste tends to fall more toward bleach and in utero, but you cannot deny the effect that nevermind and cobain had and still has on the face of music.
Couple things come to mind. One, are you suggesting you know what I felt when I was 7 8 or 9? Cause it sure as hell sounds like it.
No. How did you get that impression? I questioned your opinion of the media hype surrounding Nirvana in the early 90’s, as a 7 year old. I still do. I have a 6 year old. I’m 100% positive she couldn’t give me an accurate explanation of media hype and the atmosphere in the music scene of today. I never really began to understand the concept of music as an industry until my teens. I was probably 10 when I first started seeking out my own music, getting away from my parents tastes…. I don’t think my experience sets the bar by any means, but there is no way you can tell me you could read a whole Rolling Stone article, let alone comprehend what it meant, at 7.
And Generation X, I have seen the generation timeline for Gen X stretch out to 1984, the year I was born. If people ask me what generation I am from, I say X, and I identify with the traits. Just as, if you were a certain age, the first question you might ask someone you meet if say you are in your 50's or 60's, is "what did you do during vietnam". I think obviously not all, but a good deal of our parents generation, fit a mold. They grew up middle class and started questioning things, and became hippies. Sure, not everyone did that, but its an accurate thing to say that the Baby Boomers acted and behaved a certain way. I also think its accurate to describe our generation in different terms. We are children of the baby boomers, of hippies, and we have a certain view of the world.
I don’t know you, but your posts suggest you’re mildly obsessed with categorization. Indie, emo, grunge, hippie, gen x, middle class, baby boomers, etc etc…I don’t feel this urge to pigeonhole everyone, but sure, describe your generation in different terms. I’m just sayin – I don’t think 84 is a part of it….but since you need an answer to that persistent question we all get asked so often – ‘what generation are you from?’, go with gen x. I dont care.
Secondly, are you really telling me, that kids dont know the meaning and cant sense an emotional intensity? You obviously dont know your civil rights history, because those small kids, 5 6 7 year olds, that were marching , and protesting with their parents, werent oblivious. They knew exactly what was going on, the impact of their marching and protesting, and their place in history, and the importance of it. So to tell me, that I personally couldnt comprehend the importance of Nevermind because I was too young, is insane on multiple levels. 1 being, you werent and arent me. And 2 that kids can feel emotions just as much as adults can.
Again, I’m not trying to belittle your feelings as a 7 yr old. 7 yr olds probably feel things MORE intensely than adults. But what I think is insane is for you to try and tell us that at 7 you were thinking, ‘wow, the media hype surrounding Nirvana is completely deserved, as this album is an iconic, transcendental escape raft for my angst-ridden Generation, Gen X’
I, unlike you apparently, can remember exactly what I felt like, the emotions I felt, the feelings, the atmosphere, of the early 1990's.
I remember being 7 too. I remember my second grade teacher showing me flashcards. I remember mommy walking me to school, and bringing my new puppy in for show and tell. I DON’T remember analyzing the 1981 media discussion of punk vs new wave vs disco.
additionally, i think its quite normal, and human to talk about those records that are special to us. I live and breath music, and I make no apologies about that. My username attests to that. And I think, we all should feel lucky to have an album that speaks to us, that can conjure up strong emotions in us, that has the power to fundamentally alter us, to feel like the person on that cd despite all evidence to the contrary, wrote these songs just for me. If we have one album that fits those parameters I laid out, we should consider ourselves lucky. I have moved on musically from grunge. And yeah, I dont listen to Nevermind a ton. But those songs are etched into my dna. They are in my lungs. The songs lurk like ghosts, around everything I do. For me, I have found, having these things, these albums, or movies or books, that speak to us in fundamental ways, are essential to our well being and our health, our livelihoods even.
Again with the self indulgence. I’m not discussing what the album means to you. You can place any level of personal importance on it that you choose. I think Nevermind is overrated. If you take that personally, it’s your problem, not mine.
Its not naive of me to point out, that as in a lot of music, I would bet Nevermind helped alot of young adults and adults out, dealing with their emotions and their feelings. I think it was a lifeline and lifejacket for some even. For me, thats something that is huge, its so huge its immeasurable. These songs exposed the pain and anger of a 20 something named kurt. What surprised Kurt, and in many ways what led to his downfall, was the fact that this guy tapped into the emotions of an entire generation. I dont think thats hyperbole. Its not hype or overrating either. Its simple facts.
For someone, anyone, a kid perhaps who felt alienated from others, who was abused, who felt lost and confused, Nevermind was most likely a raft on which to escape.
Holy….no one is disputing that music is an important outlet, and a way to identify with other people in similar situations. But the term ‘overrated’ is subjective – it’s opinion.
as for the NME article, it seems not too thought out. The author talks about how the songs seem overplayed via overexposure. Nirvana wasnt liscencing songs until the last few years, and I dont know, but a few songs on Cold Case or Lost and then having Kurt on Guitar Hero, is that being overexpose?
Secondly the author refuses to talk about how music can be profound, and still be a made up story. Whether Kurt did live under a bridge, or whether he made it up is irrelevant. In fact if its made up, it only proves his genius more. To me, as I pointed out before, the song was never about being under a bridge, it was "something in the way", that he kept refering to over and over again that caught my ear and attention. Seems to me, Kurt was talking about more than a time in his life when he may have lived under a bridge.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t he talk about living under a bridge in interviews - more than in the one song? Wouldn’t his selling a false image of himself constitute some kind of deadly sin in the world of punk ethics? If you think building up his public image of a downtrodden loner is just another example of his genius, maybe you are not willing to accept ANY criticism?
The author also seems to pit the hair metal and commercial rock of that time, with Nirvana and Kurt. I am sorry but the music that bands like Poison and Ratt and Motley Crue, were making and the music of Nirvana was and remains vastly different. And if the author or anyone else refuses to see it, they are deaf or dumb.
To me, music thats honest, true, and righteous, always springs to the fore. The shills, the people out for money and fame and cars, those are a dime a dozen, and you can spot them a mile away. And you may have to sift through acres and acres of crap to get to that gem, but when you find it, its indescribable.
I don’t know what point the author tried to make by bringing the hair metal bands into it. Seems he was comparing the longevity of those bands to the longevity of the Nirvana imitators…which doesn’t make much sense.
I'll say it again. I like Nirvana, and consider myself a fan. But it's not the best album of that year IMO, nor the best in their catalogue, nor does it deserve to be the only modern album in the library of congress...therefore, I think it's overrated.
maybe Rolling Stone and Spin reviewed them favourably (did they?)
Rolling Stone actually gave Nevermind only 3 stars when it came out, and then years later gave it 5 stars, which I think is hilarious. The correct rating is probably the average of the two.
I've never been the biggest Nirvana fan... I have all of their records, and I do still listen to them sometimes, but I always thought they were a bit overated. The fact that Nirvana (particularly tracks from Nevermind) are to this day overplayed on the radio is just a testament to how gutless the music industry is these days. Good music can be overplayed but it never really goes stale.
Nevermind is a fucking brilliant album that changed the world. It's like when teenagers say that "Sgt. Pepper" really isn't that good, 40 years down the line. What are you comparing it to? Ten? Ten was a fucking cock-rock album by 1991 standards, I hate to inform you people!
Nevermind is a fucking brilliant album that changed the world. It's like when teenagers say that "Sgt. Pepper" really isn't that good, 40 years down the line. What are you comparing it to? Ten? Ten was a fucking cock-rock album by 1991 standards, I hate to inform you people!
But god damn was it a GOOD cock rock album
I love Sgt Pepper's and Nevermind. I'd rate Sgt. Pepper's as a genius album that pushed boundaries. Nevermind was more of a right place, right time kind of thing. It's a great album, don't get me wrong, but it was basically a much more slick, streamlined punk/metal album with stronger songs that had great pop hooks and choruses. Something was brewing regardless, but Nirvana just happened to be the band with enough of a pop touch to be the band that broke through. AiC, PJ, Soundgarden... all were too dark or artsy or throwback to do what Nirvana did. It isn't necessarily that Nevermind is a superior album to any of its contemporaries, but from the standpoint of which album was accessible enough to enter the mainstream like that, it's a no brainer so it's unsurprising that it got the most attention and still does.
Nevermind is a fucking brilliant album that changed the world. It's like when teenagers say that "Sgt. Pepper" really isn't that good, 40 years down the line. What are you comparing it to? Ten? Ten was a fucking cock-rock album by 1991 standards, I hate to inform you people!
Nothing wrong with cock rock I love how we've got one guy saying Nirvana not getting a fair shake, and that it's pointless to discuss them here, another guy calling PJ fans that are critical of Nirvana bandwagon fan-boys, now you calling Ten cock rock (deragotorily).....do we sense irony? People who think Kurt was a punk rock genius, getting all defensive over their opinion that his album was the biggest, best, most influential commercial rock album ever? :roll:
I'd compare it to the other breakthrough albums by the big four, and whatever else was big in the early 90's... Nevermind how Nevermind influenced music and impacted pop culture...to my ears, it's not as good as Facelift, Ten, Badmotorfinger, BSSM or even Psalm 69....it's about on par with Siamese Dream. JMHO. But then, you think evacuation rules...I can see our disconnect here
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No. How did you get that impression? I questioned your opinion of the media hype surrounding Nirvana in the early 90’s, as a 7 year old. I still do. I have a 6 year old. I’m 100% positive she couldn’t give me an accurate explanation of media hype and the atmosphere in the music scene of today. I never really began to understand the concept of music as an industry until my teens. I was probably 10 when I first started seeking out my own music, getting away from my parents tastes…. I don’t think my experience sets the bar by any means, but there is no way you can tell me you could read a whole Rolling Stone article, let alone comprehend what it meant, at 7.
I don’t know you, but your posts suggest you’re mildly obsessed with categorization. Indie, emo, grunge, hippie, gen x, middle class, baby boomers, etc etc…I don’t feel this urge to pigeonhole everyone, but sure, describe your generation in different terms. I’m just sayin – I don’t think 84 is a part of it….but since you need an answer to that persistent question we all get asked so often – ‘what generation are you from?’, go with gen x. I dont care.
Again, I’m not trying to belittle your feelings as a 7 yr old. 7 yr olds probably feel things MORE intensely than adults. But what I think is insane is for you to try and tell us that at 7 you were thinking, ‘wow, the media hype surrounding Nirvana is completely deserved, as this album is an iconic, transcendental escape raft for my angst-ridden Generation, Gen X’
I remember being 7 too. I remember my second grade teacher showing me flashcards. I remember mommy walking me to school, and bringing my new puppy in for show and tell. I DON’T remember analyzing the 1981 media discussion of punk vs new wave vs disco.
Again with the self indulgence. I’m not discussing what the album means to you. You can place any level of personal importance on it that you choose. I think Nevermind is overrated. If you take that personally, it’s your problem, not mine.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t he talk about living under a bridge in interviews - more than in the one song? Wouldn’t his selling a false image of himself constitute some kind of deadly sin in the world of punk ethics? If you think building up his public image of a downtrodden loner is just another example of his genius, maybe you are not willing to accept ANY criticism?
I don’t know what point the author tried to make by bringing the hair metal bands into it. Seems he was comparing the longevity of those bands to the longevity of the Nirvana imitators…which doesn’t make much sense.
I'll say it again. I like Nirvana, and consider myself a fan. But it's not the best album of that year IMO, nor the best in their catalogue, nor does it deserve to be the only modern album in the library of congress...therefore, I think it's overrated.
Rolling Stone actually gave Nevermind only 3 stars when it came out, and then years later gave it 5 stars, which I think is hilarious. The correct rating is probably the average of the two.
I've never been the biggest Nirvana fan... I have all of their records, and I do still listen to them sometimes, but I always thought they were a bit overated. The fact that Nirvana (particularly tracks from Nevermind) are to this day overplayed on the radio is just a testament to how gutless the music industry is these days. Good music can be overplayed but it never really goes stale.
But god damn was it a GOOD cock rock album
I love Sgt Pepper's and Nevermind. I'd rate Sgt. Pepper's as a genius album that pushed boundaries. Nevermind was more of a right place, right time kind of thing. It's a great album, don't get me wrong, but it was basically a much more slick, streamlined punk/metal album with stronger songs that had great pop hooks and choruses. Something was brewing regardless, but Nirvana just happened to be the band with enough of a pop touch to be the band that broke through. AiC, PJ, Soundgarden... all were too dark or artsy or throwback to do what Nirvana did. It isn't necessarily that Nevermind is a superior album to any of its contemporaries, but from the standpoint of which album was accessible enough to enter the mainstream like that, it's a no brainer so it's unsurprising that it got the most attention and still does.
nevermind was is and always will be a fantastic record because its filled with great songs from start to finish
go listen to in bloom or on a plain-these tunes still rock
damn shame we will never get to hear the songs that died with Kurt
I'd compare it to the other breakthrough albums by the big four, and whatever else was big in the early 90's... Nevermind how Nevermind influenced music and impacted pop culture...to my ears, it's not as good as Facelift, Ten, Badmotorfinger, BSSM or even Psalm 69....it's about on par with Siamese Dream. JMHO. But then, you think evacuation rules...I can see our disconnect here