An Epidemic of Fear
arthurdent
Posts: 969
An Epidemic of Fear: How Panicked Parents Skipping Shots Endangers Us All
http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/10/f ... ence/all/1
good read!
http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/10/f ... ence/all/1
good read!
Rock me Jesus, roll me Lord...
Wash me in the blood of Rock & Roll
Wash me in the blood of Rock & Roll
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Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
I'm not against vaxing my child, but if one thinks about the sheer number of vacs a 2 year old has already had in it's short lifetime, it's A LOT.
And I notice Kaiser Permanente quoted in the article. How interesting that the world's largest insurance beast also has a hospital and are regarded as a sane source for health info. :roll:
Actually, we do know FOR AN ABSOLUTE FACT that there is no link between vaccinations and Autism. Jenny McCarthy and her idiot, retarded brethren need to shut the fuck up!!!!!!!!
VACCINES AND AUTISM: ANOTHER DEAD LINK
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badas ... dead-link/
Wash me in the blood of Rock & Roll
I thought that Mercury was no longer part of most (or any?) vaccines. I could be wrong though...
OTOH, I certainly do not care for the opinion that "everyone should be forced into vaccination in order to benefit the entire population." You don't want to vaccinate your kids? Fine, not my fucking business.
actually - i don't think you can say it is FACT ... studies are inconclusive on this ... referencing a blog that references a dead link is by no means a way of proving your point as FACT ...
people need to have cool heads in discussing what ultimately is the livelihood of the people they love ... in a country that allows stuff to be passed that is banned everywhere else - it is telling that they removed thimerosol from vaccines years ago ...
the reality is that people die from more common things like heart disease - much of which is related to dietary or environment based illnesses ... saying that everyone is not in great danger of contracting something because people choose to not vaccinate is raising it's own epidemic of fear ...
This is exactly how epidemics start. Sorry. It's a public health issue. It's either vaccinations... or we quarantine everyone who refuses to get vaccinated.
Wash me in the blood of Rock & Roll
YES, I CAN SAY IT IS ABSOLUTE, SCIENTIFIC FACT. Show me a CREDIBLE study which says otherwise.
Wash me in the blood of Rock & Roll
you SHOW me a credible source! ... your original link has a dead link in the blog ... i'm not saying it is linked - i'm saying the plethora of studies are inconclusive ... why did they get rid of thimerosol from vaccines then?
but if you are vaccinated you have nothing to fear, No?
you gotta be kidding me? ... talk about epidemic of fear!
good to know. That might be a good enough reason for me to not have my 4 month old vaccinated (when he is old enough - 6 months). Mercury and formaldehyde are two things I definitely do not want in his system, even if it is 1 or 2 PPB.
I don't think they did get rid of thimerisol from vaccines.
oh ... i was going with information the OP provided
Antivaxxers wrongly targeted thimerosal as a health risk, and thimerosal was removed from vaccines in 2001
my position on this is that i believe the public is entitled to objective scientific information when it comes to public health and vaccinations - although i have not nor will not take flu shots for the foreseeable future ... i believe that should be up to each individual and that the decision should be made as objective as possible without any side's propaganda ... the problem is that information does not appear to be readily available instead we rely on often biased sources ...
I don't think there is a credible study that shows any positive correlation between autism and vaccines with mercury. And it doesn't make sense there would be. Vaccines have probably had the mercury relative in them since vaccines have been around, and yet there was no corresponding bump associated with autism cases then. In fact, now that mercury has been removed from childhood vaccines, there hasn't been any corresponding drop in autism...in fact, hasn't there been a reasonably steady increase? I think that there is something environmental having to do with the rate, but the vaccines aren't the thing. Maybe it isn't just one thing...maybe it's a conglomeration of things--pesticides, BPA in plastics, some unknown at the moment...I just don't think it's vaccines and mercury; it's something more recent than that or some cluster of things more recent than that.
Thimerisol (sp?) used to be in everything, including contact lens solutions used daily by millions of people. They did get rid of it in most childhood vaccinations. It's been gone for years.
Ah! Childhood vaccines... but not all vaccines. Then I don't get why people don't want to vaccinate their children if their fear Thimerisol-induced autism.
Nice one.
First rule of statistics: Correlation does not equal causation. Example we often used is that if it is shown that number of births correlates with the number of storks in the area, does that mean that the storks deliver our babies? Finding two things that rise in the same period of time, does not mean they are related, unless one has a very good reason to believe so. In the case of medicine, that reason must be shown to actually have an effect. An inability to find a causation, does not make all inferences from correlations true.
As for autism, I have more faith in genetic factors having something to do with it, and perhaps some sideeffects of modern life. Small quantities of bad stuffs in food, cell phones, electrical grids all over. I think these are more potential villains than the vaccines we get as kids. Especially since there have not been established any link in the research that have been done on the subject. Here the language of science becomes unsatisfactory for regular uses. No study can ever conclude that A definitely beyond a doubt does not cause B. It can conclude that it is "highly unlikely" which is scientese for "no fucking way". Science can only prove links that do exist, not the ones that doesn't. Thats how it operates.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
That's one hell of a statement to make, but not if he won't back it up.
indeed!
wow.....a LOT of information, very, very interesting.
there was so much in it, but this was one of many comments that stood out for me:
"According to science journalist Michael Specter, author of the new book Denialism: How Irrational Thinking Hinders Scientific Progress, Harms the Planet and Threatens Our Lives, the controversy surrounding vaccine safety has made lack of expertise a requirement when choosing members of prominent advisory panels on the issue. “It’s shocking,” Specter says. “We live in a country where it’s actually a detriment to be an expert about something.” When expertise is diminished to such an extent, irrationality and fear can run amok."
thanks for posting.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Imprints are the highly influential psychological events that influence our actions for the rest of our lives (unless one is intelligent enough to "reprogram" yourself). The first imprint takes place in infancy and forms the "oral/biosurvival circuit" of the brain. This imprint is an event that tells us to "run home" when things get tough, to seek warmth, in humans it causes oral "fixations", and in general it is necessary for survival. All mammals have this circuit built-in to their mid-brain. Any trauma during the imprint period can cause lasting side effects of the psyche and various mental conditions and excessive oral fixations such as smoking, overeating, and so forth. I don't think that autism is formed by a faulty imprint of this circuit, but a faulty imprint, or total lack thereof, of the second circuit.
The second circuit is the anal/territorial circuit that is formed as children begin to crawl or walk and realize who is "top dog," who they can or cannot influence with their emotions, who is dominant/submissive in the household, who owns the territory and who is the servant, and we all learn about structure and routine in this period - something that is very confusing and foreign to a new primate. During the imprint of this circuit, anger, hostility, rage or other negative emotions can cause lasting psychological damage. The imprint can be a single and specific event such as the father yelling at a 1or 2 year old and slapping him/her. It can be something much less incinduous with little or no explanation about "why" the imprint occured at that specific moment, or it could be that this imprint never occured and the child went from the oral circuit straight to the "mind" circuit - the time-binding semantic circuit. So if the 1 year old goes straight from the oral circuit to the semantic circuit (the "computer" mind) without learning about structure, routine and societal norms that should be learned in the 2nd circuit, the ramifications of this may include autism.
Now, of course this is all conjecture based upon my knowledge of Tim Leary's "8 Circuits of Consciousness" model of psychology. Even mentioning that this is based on somthing Tim Leary wrote will discredit it in the eyes of many people. But it is based on science, or if you have beef with Tim Leary you can go ahead and call it pseudo-science.
I think that most mental disorders, maybe all of them - including autism, are caused by the mysterious psychological imprints during infancy, childhood, and adolescence. Maybe we ought to be looking deeper into these factors, as psychological is still in the dark ages relative to other sciences, rather than searching for a needle in the haystack of chemicals and pollutants that we are all subject to? I think we ought to consider both.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=114436&p=2579806
we give more vaccinations to our children than any other nation in the world.
also, in 1989 the amount of vaccinations we give our children more than doubled but why?
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'