nukes: okay for some but not for others

Commy

catefrances wrote:

Commy wrote:

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

if only he had helped blow up some Cuban airliners and assassinate foreign officials he'd be set

I suppose that has something to do with with him disclosing Israeli secrets...I can't for the live of me figure out what that connection is, but i'm sure its in there somewhere.

really?? you cant get what steve is saying here??? jeez i thought i was a humourless mook at the moment.

i get it. humourless mook about sums it up

Drowned Out

soulsinging wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

so you would be just as affected by the sight of a mannequin having its head blown off as if you saw someone blow the head off a human being? it would shock you the same? arouse the same reaction in you?

No, but I have an imagination, so it would definitely give me pause. But I don’t really get your point. Do you honestly think the US was taken aback by the destruction in Japan? Would it have changed it’s course if it had understood the destruction they’d inflict? No…the destruction was the whole point!

Yes. I think the whole world was taken aback by the destruction in Japan after those bombs. Yes, that was the goal. But I don't think anyone in the world was able to truly wrap their heads around what a city full of people would look like after that, and I think it made a lot of people pause. If we were all so gung ho on that kind of destruction, why haven't they been used at all since? We could have launched them at Russia, dropped some on Baghdad, used them in Korea... there were many opportunities. But seeing the reality of a nuclear blast shook everyone up, which is how the US and Russia managed not to destroy each other during the cold war... nobody wanted to see something like that again.

I should have asked, do you think anyone with foreknowledge of the bombs' power was taken aback...ie: anyone that was involved in the decision to use it? I fucking doubt it, cause they used it again three days later. In a sense you're right, the PUBLIC was probably horrified. But I don't think public opinion has much to do with the use of nukes. I don't think there were American Generals flying over Japan in '45 going 'whoa.....dude.....we fucked up'. They were likely saluting a flag and flippin a bird towards Moscow. Just saying that it doesn't seem any less hypocritical to me to say 'learn from our mistakes' than to say 'do as I say, not as I do', when that 'mistake' was intentional, and they continue to reap the benefits of said 'mistake'...if the US wanted other nations to learn from their mistakes, they'd be disarming and leading by example. In the status quo, nuclear power is the only way for an adversary to level the playing field and avoid US 'military intervention'.

tybird

soulsinging wrote:

Yes. I think the whole world was taken aback by the destruction in Japan after those bombs. Yes, that was the goal. But I don't think anyone in the world was able to truly wrap their heads around what a city full of people would look like after that, and I think it made a lot of people pause. If we were all so gung ho on that kind of destruction, why haven't they been used at all since? We could have launched them at Russia, dropped some on Baghdad, used them in Korea... there were many opportunities. But seeing the reality of a nuclear blast shook everyone up, which is how the US and Russia managed not to destroy each other during the cold war... nobody wanted to see something like that again.

It's also important to remember that the long-term effects of the bomb were not real evident in 1945...since there were advocates for using the bombs for peaceful purposes such as terra-forming...why haul in tons of dynamite to clear rocks for a hydro-electric dam, just explode an atom bomb...plus they tested the bombs with exposed servicemen in close proximity to study the effects.

Commy

Drowned Out wrote:

In the status quo, nuclear power is the only way for an adversary to level the playing field and avoid US 'military intervention'.

funny that US policy is actually encouraging nuclear proliferation. not so much funny, more fucked up.

NoK

Drowned Out wrote:

cause they used it again three days later.

Thats all you needed to say.

Heatherj43

Why can the U.S have nukes and no one else? Oh wait they did give permission for someplace I cannot remember now to have them, and even gave material. That was when Bush was in office.
Who in the hell is the US to decide this. And its not the US deciding, its the president at the moment, some who are crazy. These other countries who we give permission may not like us anymore when they get themselves a new leader.
I just don' get it. No one should have nukes. To have them must mean an intent to use them some day, or think one has to.
This earth has no room for nukes.

Idris

Latest news regarding Iran and its nuclear program.
-

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle-east/israeli-military-chiefs-comments-hint-at-involvement-in-attacks-on-iranian-nuclear-program/2012/01/11/gIQAVUH8qP_story.html?wprss=rss_middle-east

Report: Bomb kills Iranian nuclear expert

-The attack strongly resembles earlier killings of scientists working on the country’s nuclear program, which have been linked to U.S. and Israeli covert actions.The car bomb killed Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan, a chemistry expert and a director of the Natanz facility. 

”The deputy governor of Tehran is blaming [the attack] on Israel, saying it wants to destabilize the country ahead of presidential elections in March,” Al Jazeera’s Dorsa Jabbari said.
--

In November, the Guardian reported unequivocally that U.S.-Israeli “black operations” have “targeted Iran’s scientists.” And in August, the German paperDer Spiegel leaked an admission from an Israeli intelligence official that Mossad, Israel’s intelligence agency, had been involved in the assassinations.

Seaking to the latest of such killings at the time, Der Spiegel wrote “There is little doubt in the shadowy world of intelligence agencies that Israel is behind the assassination of Darioush Rezaei.” The Israeli intelligence official told the reporter, “That was the first serious action taken by the new Mossad chief Tamir Pardo.”

http://news.antiwar.com/2012/01/11/iranian-nuclear-scientist-killed-in-car-bomb-attack/

Byrnzie

Idris wrote:

Latest news regarding Iran and its nuclear program.
-

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle-east/israeli-military-chiefs-comments-hint-at-involvement-in-attacks-on-iranian-nuclear-program/2012/01/11/gIQAVUH8qP_story.html?wprss=rss_middle-east

Report: Bomb kills Iranian nuclear expert

-The attack strongly resembles earlier killings of scientists working on the country’s nuclear program, which have been linked to U.S. and Israeli covert actions.The car bomb killed Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan, a chemistry expert and a director of the Natanz facility. 

”The deputy governor of Tehran is blaming [the attack] on Israel, saying it wants to destabilize the country ahead of presidential elections in March,” Al Jazeera’s Dorsa Jabbari said.
--

In November, the Guardian reported unequivocally that U.S.-Israeli “black operations” have “targeted Iran’s scientists.” And in August, the German paperDer Spiegel leaked an admission from an Israeli intelligence official that Mossad, Israel’s intelligence agency, had been involved in the assassinations.

Seaking to the latest of such killings at the time, Der Spiegel wrote “There is little doubt in the shadowy world of intelligence agencies that Israel is behind the assassination of Darioush Rezaei.” The Israeli intelligence official told the reporter, “That was the first serious action taken by the new Mossad chief Tamir Pardo.”

http://news.antiwar.com/2012/01/11/iranian-nuclear-scientist-killed-in-car-bomb-attack/

So now the West - U.S & Israel - are resorting to terrorism and extra-judicial assassinations on the streets of Tehran. What a great example to set.

pjfan021

Byrnzie wrote:

Idris wrote:

Latest news regarding Iran and its nuclear program.
-

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle-east/israeli-military-chiefs-comments-hint-at-involvement-in-attacks-on-iranian-nuclear-program/2012/01/11/gIQAVUH8qP_story.html?wprss=rss_middle-east

Report: Bomb kills Iranian nuclear expert

-The attack strongly resembles earlier killings of scientists working on the country’s nuclear program, which have been linked to U.S. and Israeli covert actions.The car bomb killed Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan, a chemistry expert and a director of the Natanz facility. 

”The deputy governor of Tehran is blaming [the attack] on Israel, saying it wants to destabilize the country ahead of presidential elections in March,” Al Jazeera’s Dorsa Jabbari said.
--

In November, the Guardian reported unequivocally that U.S.-Israeli “black operations” have “targeted Iran’s scientists.” And in August, the German paperDer Spiegel leaked an admission from an Israeli intelligence official that Mossad, Israel’s intelligence agency, had been involved in the assassinations.

Seaking to the latest of such killings at the time, Der Spiegel wrote “There is little doubt in the shadowy world of intelligence agencies that Israel is behind the assassination of Darioush Rezaei.” The Israeli intelligence official told the reporter, “That was the first serious action taken by the new Mossad chief Tamir Pardo.”

http://news.antiwar.com/2012/01/11/iranian-nuclear-scientist-killed-in-car-bomb-attack/

So now the West - U.S & Israel - are resorting to terrorism and extra-judicial assassinations on the streets of Tehran. What a great example to set.

we actually resorted to cyber-terrorism within the past year. We sent in a virus that fucked up their computer system to show faulty data..long and complicated shit, but google it. The US is a giant hypocrite when it comes to every facet of foreign policy; we can waterboard and torture but other countries can't. We can invade other countries at will but when Russia does it to Georgia it's not ok. We kidnap/kill their scientists and partake in espionage but it's despicable when other countries do. We used the bomb when we didn't have to and killed thousands of people to flex our military muscle and we haven't stopped doing it since. AMERICA'S POWER LIES IN IT'S MILITARY AND WILL DO ANYTHING TO KEEP AN UPPER HAND ON ANY COUNTRY OUT THERE.

blueandwhite

I guess when you're #1 you'll kill to stay on top. Of course, it's that dog-eat-dog mentality that brought Nuclear weaponry into existence in the first place. Still, I can't say I'm excited by the prospect of more nuclear monsters emerging in the 21st century. We already have too many lunatics who warship the bomb.

Idris

pjfan021 wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

Idris wrote:

Latest news regarding Iran and its nuclear program.
-

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle-east/israeli-military-chiefs-comments-hint-at-involvement-in-attacks-on-iranian-nuclear-program/2012/01/11/gIQAVUH8qP_story.html?wprss=rss_middle-east

Report: Bomb kills Iranian nuclear expert

-The attack strongly resembles earlier killings of scientists working on the country’s nuclear program, which have been linked to U.S. and Israeli covert actions.The car bomb killed Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan, a chemistry expert and a director of the Natanz facility. 

”The deputy governor of Tehran is blaming [the attack] on Israel, saying it wants to destabilize the country ahead of presidential elections in March,” Al Jazeera’s Dorsa Jabbari said.
--

In November, the Guardian reported unequivocally that U.S.-Israeli “black operations” have “targeted Iran’s scientists.” And in August, the German paperDer Spiegel leaked an admission from an Israeli intelligence official that Mossad, Israel’s intelligence agency, had been involved in the assassinations.

Seaking to the latest of such killings at the time, Der Spiegel wrote “There is little doubt in the shadowy world of intelligence agencies that Israel is behind the assassination of Darioush Rezaei.” The Israeli intelligence official told the reporter, “That was the first serious action taken by the new Mossad chief Tamir Pardo.”

http://news.antiwar.com/2012/01/11/iranian-nuclear-scientist-killed-in-car-bomb-attack/

So now the West - U.S & Israel - are resorting to terrorism and extra-judicial assassinations on the streets of Tehran. What a great example to set.

we actually resorted to cyber-terrorism within the past year. We sent in a virus that fucked up their computer system to show faulty data..long and complicated shit, but google it. The US is a giant hypocrite when it comes to every facet of foreign policy; we can waterboard and torture but other countries can't. We can invade other countries at will but when Russia does it to Georgia it's not ok. We kidnap/kill their scientists and partake in espionage but it's despicable when other countries do. We used the bomb when we didn't have to and killed thousands of people to flex our military muscle and we haven't stopped doing it since. AMERICA'S POWER LIES IN IT'S MILITARY AND WILL DO ANYTHING TO KEEP AN UPPER HAND ON ANY COUNTRY OUT THERE.

Yea It's hypocrisy at it's finest.

A quick note on the 2008 Georgia/Russia Conflict...That was a highly propagandized (like they all are) conflict painting the Russians as evil monsters randomly invading Georgia. Georgia was attacking South Ossetia. Then Russia stepped in.

CNN even aired footage of Georgia attacking and played it as Russia attacking.
-

Georgia, Israel and the US worked that war/conflict really well.