UK - A Spy Society

Jeanwah

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 293784.stm
Public to Monitor CCTV from Home

Members of the public could earn cash by monitoring commercial CCTV cameras in their own home, in a scheme planned to begin next month.

The Internet Eyes website will offer up to £1,000 if viewers spot shoplifting or other crimes in progress.

The site's owners say they want to combine crime prevention with the incentive of winning money.

But civil liberties campaigners say the idea is "distasteful" and asks private citizens to spy on each other.

The private company scheme - due to go live in Stratford-upon-Avon in November - aims to stream live footage to subscribers' home computers from CCTV cameras installed in shops and other businesses.

This is a private company using private cameras and asking private citizens to spy on each other. It represents a privatisation of the surveillance state
Charles Farrier, No CCTV

If viewers see a crime in progress, they can press a button to alert store detectives and collect points worth up to £1,000.

Internet Eyes founder James Woodward said: "This is about crime prevention.

"CCTV isn't watched, it isn't monitored, and not enough cameras are watched at any one time.

"What we're doing is we're putting more eyes onto those cameras so that they are monitored".

'Snoopers' paradise'

However civil liberty campaigners say they are horrified by what they say is the creation of a "snoopers' paradise".

Charles Farrier from No CCTV said: "It is a distasteful and a worrying development.

"This is a private company using private cameras and asking private citizens to spy on each other. It represents a privatisation of the surveillance state."

Internet Eyes has defended its plans, saying viewers will not know exactly which camera they're watching or where it is located.

Although the UK is the "world capital of CCTV" - with an estimated one camera per 14 people - viewing hours of mostly tedious and often poor quality images is a lengthy and unpopular job, said the BBC's home affairs correspondent Andy Tighe.

In August, an internal report commissioned by London's Metropolitan Police estimated that in 2008 just one crime was solved per thousand CCTV cameras in the capital.

The deficit was partly blamed on officers not being able to make the best use of the many thousands of hours of video generated by CCTV.

OutOfBreath

Wow. "Free" surveillance.

OK, £1000 payouts once in a while, but how much can they make from selling their services?

I chime in on the "distasteful" side of this argument.

Peace
Dan

VINNY GOOMBA

Government paying people to spy on each other? People in the UK should be outraged-- This is a DIRECT attack on people who value their civil liberties-- as those people WON'T be participating in this program, and will be footing the bill through taxes for the people (RATS) who will be doing it.

Could this be considered discrimination? I've wondered if people who actually care about their rights as human beings considered themselves to be a separate, discernable group that they could use anti-discrimination laws to combat these types of abuses by government...

catefrances

fuck off !! im not doing your job for you... i mean if i were a brit. next theyll be asked to identify witches. wrong wrong wrong

Brisk.

Dont people have jobs to go to rather than sitting infront of a screen all day?

catefrances

Brisk. wrote:

Dont people have jobs to go to rather than sitting infront of a screen all day?

soulsinging

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

Government paying people to spy on each other? People in the UK should be outraged-- This is a DIRECT attack on people who value their civil liberties-- as those people WON'T be participating in this program, and will be footing the bill through taxes for the people (RATS) who will be doing it.

Could this be considered discrimination? I've wondered if people who actually care about their rights as human beings considered themselves to be a separate, discernable group that they could use anti-discrimination laws to combat these types of abuses by government...

It's not the government, it's a private company doing this as a business. Which jives with a conversation I had with an FBI agent on this matter once. I've had good and bad experiences with FBI agents, but this guy was pretty candid. His point was that government has neither the resources, nor the time, nor the interest to track citizens like this and that the greatest threat to privacy and civil liberties comes not from government but from private companies. I'm beginning to think he's right. We're wasting a lot of time screaming about government's size and influence when the truly scary prospect is the influence of private companies.

Think about it. The insurance industry? Your employer or some CEO gets to decide if you go bankrupt over medical bills. They hire citizens to watch each other. Every time you apply for a discount card at a grocery, you would be shocked to know what information they begin collecting on you. Facebook is also particularly bad, offering companies a wealth of free data to stop profiling you. And Halliburton continues to defend its claim that an employee who was gang raped on the job should not be able to sue them over it and should instead be bound by an abitration clause and forced to sit down at a table with the very people that did it to her. And they get us all to go along with this for just a few bucks in savings.

Business is what scares me, not government. The real problem is that our government is too WEAK. It can't or won't stand up to business and until it does, you will find that they will be able to do whatever they damn well please to citizens that have no recourse against them, as long as it produces enough profit to buy lobbyists and congressmen. We're not heading for a 1984 with a Big Brother central government. We're heading for a return to feudalism, with the capitalists acting as lords over their fiefdoms and the rest of us at their mercy. I can promise you, it won't be long before companies have more power over you than government could ever dream of and there will be no recourse when they hold the prospect of unemployment and starvation for your family against you. You will sleep in the corporate dorm, eat company controlled food (to manage their health care costs), etc.

VINNY GOOMBA

soulsinging wrote:

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

Government paying people to spy on each other? People in the UK should be outraged-- This is a DIRECT attack on people who value their civil liberties-- as those people WON'T be participating in this program, and will be footing the bill through taxes for the people (RATS) who will be doing it.

Could this be considered discrimination? I've wondered if people who actually care about their rights as human beings considered themselves to be a separate, discernable group that they could use anti-discrimination laws to combat these types of abuses by government...

It's not the government, it's a private company doing this as a business. Which jives with a conversation I had with an FBI agent on this matter once. I've had good and bad experiences with FBI agents, but this guy was pretty candid. His point was that government has neither the resources, nor the time, nor the interest to track citizens like this and that the greatest threat to privacy and civil liberties comes not from government but from private companies. I'm beginning to think he's right. We're wasting a lot of time screaming about government's size and influence when the truly scary prospect is the influence of private companies.

Think about it. The insurance industry? Your employer or some CEO gets to decide if you go bankrupt over medical bills. They hire citizens to watch each other. Every time you apply for a discount card at a grocery, you would be shocked to know what information they begin collecting on you. Facebook is also particularly bad, offering companies a wealth of free data to stop profiling you. And Halliburton continues to defend its claim that an employee who was gang raped on the job should not be able to sue them over it and should instead be bound by an abitration clause and forced to sit down at a table with the very people that did it to her. And they get us all to go along with this for just a few bucks in savings.

Business is what scares me, not government. The real problem is that our government is too WEAK. It can't or won't stand up to business and until it does, you will find that they will be able to do whatever they damn well please to citizens that have no recourse against them, as long as it produces enough profit to buy lobbyists and congressmen. We're not heading for a 1984 with a Big Brother central government. We're heading for a return to feudalism, with the capitalists acting as lords over their fiefdoms and the rest of us at their mercy. I can promise you, it won't be long before companies have more power over you than government could ever dream of and there will be no recourse when they hold the prospect of unemployment and starvation for your family against you. You will sleep in the corporate dorm, eat company controlled food (to manage their health care costs), etc.

My mistake on the public / private aspect of this all.

And you know what, I agree with you on the rest of what you say. Government is WEAK-- as in, it's big business' little bitch, it's weak-willed in it's attempt to remain honest in serving the public... Where it ISN'T weak is when it's required to use firepower and force at the behest of big business that it was too WEAK to deny. Government is the VERY BIG GUN that protects these rackets.

I don't think anyone can argue how badly these two entities screw us as a joint effort. Our solutions to it vary. I've always contended that "regulators" are inherently corruptible, and therefore they should be minimized-- you get more 'regulation' out of basing money on some hard commodity than any set of rules or agencies can deliver. Others feel differently.

Who Princess

Seems like there's plenty of potential for this surveillance program to be abused as people make false accusations to try to get reward money. Maybe protections are built in but I'm guessing it could still mean a hassle for those accused of theft to have to prove their innocence. I might be overreacting but that sort of problem typically happens whenever there are tattletale programs like this.

Jeanwah

soulsinging wrote:

It's not the government, it's a private company doing this as a business. Which jives with a conversation I had with an FBI agent on this matter once. I've had good and bad experiences with FBI agents, but this guy was pretty candid. His point was that government has neither the resources, nor the time, nor the interest to track citizens like this and that the greatest threat to privacy and civil liberties comes not from government but from private companies. I'm beginning to think he's right. We're wasting a lot of time screaming about government's size and influence when the truly scary prospect is the influence of private companies.

Think about it. The insurance industry? Your employer or some CEO gets to decide if you go bankrupt over medical bills. They hire citizens to watch each other. Every time you apply for a discount card at a grocery, you would be shocked to know what information they begin collecting on you. Facebook is also particularly bad, offering companies a wealth of free data to stop profiling you. And Halliburton continues to defend its claim that an employee who was gang raped on the job should not be able to sue them over it and should instead be bound by an abitration clause and forced to sit down at a table with the very people that did it to her. And they get us all to go along with this for just a few bucks in savings.

Business is what scares me, not government. The real problem is that our government is too WEAK. It can't or won't stand up to business and until it does, you will find that they will be able to do whatever they damn well please to citizens that have no recourse against them, as long as it produces enough profit to buy lobbyists and congressmen. We're not heading for a 1984 with a Big Brother central government. We're heading for a return to feudalism, with the capitalists acting as lords over their fiefdoms and the rest of us at their mercy. I can promise you, it won't be long before companies have more power over you than government could ever dream of and there will be no recourse when they hold the prospect of unemployment and starvation for your family against you. You will sleep in the corporate dorm, eat company controlled food (to manage their health care costs), etc.

Interesting. I thought reading the article, it's basically Big Brother being spread out amongst the People, but like you said it's the private companies doing the damage and what we should be worried about. Technically the companies grow into corporations and take over governments. Make sense to me. It's what's happening in the U.S. already...Corporatism. But God, making voyeurism so legal like the UK is doing...

I also agree w/ whoprincess, that the system will probably get abused rather quickly.

soulsinging

Jeanwah wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

It's not the government, it's a private company doing this as a business. Which jives with a conversation I had with an FBI agent on this matter once. I've had good and bad experiences with FBI agents, but this guy was pretty candid. His point was that government has neither the resources, nor the time, nor the interest to track citizens like this and that the greatest threat to privacy and civil liberties comes not from government but from private companies. I'm beginning to think he's right. We're wasting a lot of time screaming about government's size and influence when the truly scary prospect is the influence of private companies.

Think about it. The insurance industry? Your employer or some CEO gets to decide if you go bankrupt over medical bills. They hire citizens to watch each other. Every time you apply for a discount card at a grocery, you would be shocked to know what information they begin collecting on you. Facebook is also particularly bad, offering companies a wealth of free data to stop profiling you. And Halliburton continues to defend its claim that an employee who was gang raped on the job should not be able to sue them over it and should instead be bound by an abitration clause and forced to sit down at a table with the very people that did it to her. And they get us all to go along with this for just a few bucks in savings.

Business is what scares me, not government. The real problem is that our government is too WEAK. It can't or won't stand up to business and until it does, you will find that they will be able to do whatever they damn well please to citizens that have no recourse against them, as long as it produces enough profit to buy lobbyists and congressmen. We're not heading for a 1984 with a Big Brother central government. We're heading for a return to feudalism, with the capitalists acting as lords over their fiefdoms and the rest of us at their mercy. I can promise you, it won't be long before companies have more power over you than government could ever dream of and there will be no recourse when they hold the prospect of unemployment and starvation for your family against you. You will sleep in the corporate dorm, eat company controlled food (to manage their health care costs), etc.

Interesting. I thought reading the article, it's basically Big Brother being spread out amongst the People, but like you said it's the private companies doing the damage and what we should be worried about. Technically the companies grow into corporations and take over governments. Make sense to me. It's what's happening in the U.S. already...Corporatism. But God, making voyeurism so legal like the UK is doing...

I also agree w/ whoprincess, that the system will probably get abused rather quickly.

That's the thing, the US government was founded to serve as a check on private elites... the old aristocracy and the like. It used to be about nobility or land or whatever, but now it's just plain wealth. The problem is that they have so much money and influence, they can drown out the rest of us pretty easy, as you see now in the health care debate. That's why these tea parties are so misguided... the founders and the tea party were not anti-government, they were anti-special interests. They were against a privileged few acting without any accountability to the governed. And that's exactly what we face now. Government is not the problem, or our enemy. Government is the tool we designed specifically to check the enemy of runaway wealth and privilege. But it's gotten beyond our control and the message was muddled somewhere. Unless we rein these interests in and check their power, we face far scarier prospects than simply a big, bloated, incompetent government.

he still stands

Another accurate prediction from George Orwell's 1984.

Winston and Julia were more worried about others in the 'outer party' catching them and turning them in than they were worried about Big Brother. Which is what happened if I remember correctly... Didn't the guy who rented them the room turn them in?

The best way to control a population is to create a society of fear.... seems like the best way to do that is to have the general population spy on everyone else.

Kel Varnsen

Seems like having access to CCTV feeds might be helpful to criminals. I mean if there are cameras outside of a home or business you can basically case the place from the privacy of your own home and figure out when people come and go, and if there are any security guards. Plus it would basically tell you where the camera coverage is and where it isn't.

Drowned Out

Kel Varnsen wrote:

Seems like having access to CCTV feeds might be helpful to criminals. I mean if there are cameras outside of a home or business you can basically case the place from the privacy of your own home and figure out when people come and go, and if there are any security guards. Plus it would basically tell you where the camera coverage is and where it isn't.

Internet Eyes has defended its plans, saying viewers will not know exactly which camera they're watching or where it is located.

....can you trust Internet Eyes, tho?

This is insane:

the UK is the "world capital of CCTV" - with an estimated one camera per 14 people

Pepe Silvia

he still stands wrote:

Another accurate prediction from George Orwell's 1984.

Winston and Julia were more worried about others in the 'outer party' catching them and turning them in than they were worried about Big Brother. Which is what happened if I remember correctly... Didn't the guy who rented them the room turn them in?

The best way to control a population is to create a society of fear.... seems like the best way to do that is to have the general population spy on everyone else.

yes, they had been monitoring them in that room for a while

catefrances

trust no one

he still stands

catefrances wrote:

trust no one

not even yourself.

catefrances

he still stands wrote:

catefrances wrote:

trust no one

not even yourself.

thats a given.