War and peace prizes by Howard Zinn

Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
edited October 2009 in A Moving Train
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... -war-obama


War and peace prizes

The dismaying gift of the Nobel prize puts Barack Obama on the list of its winners who promised peace but prosecuted war

Howard Zinn
guardian.co.uk, Saturday 10 October 2009

I was dismayed when I heard Barack Obama was given the Nobel peace prize. A shock, really, to think that a president carrying on two wars would be given a peace prize. Until I recalled that Woodrow Wilson, Theodore Roosevelt, and Henry Kissinger had all received Nobel peace prizes. The Nobel committee is famous for its superficial estimates, won over by rhetoric and by empty gestures, and ignoring blatant violations of world peace.

Yes, Wilson gets credit for the League of Nations – that ineffectual body which did nothing to prevent war. But he had bombarded the Mexican coast, sent troops to occupy Haiti and the Dominican Republic and brought the US into the slaughterhouse of Europe in the first World War, surely among stupid and deadly wars at the top of the list.

Sure, Theodore Roosevelt brokered a peace between Japan and Russia. But he was a lover of war, who participated in the US conquest of Cuba, pretending to liberate it from Spain while fastening US chains on that tiny island. And as president he presided over the bloody war to subjugate the Filipinos, even congratulating a US general who had just massacred 600 helpless villagers in the Phillipines. The Committee did not give the Nobel prize to Mark Twain, who denounced Roosevelt and criticised the war, nor to William James, leader of the anti-imperialist league.

Oh yes, the committee saw fit to give a peace prize to Henry Kissinger, because he signed the final peace agreement ending the war in Vietnam, of which he had been one of the architects. Kissinger, who obsequiously went along with Nixon's expansion of the war, with the bombing of peasant villages in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. Kissinger, who matches the definition of a war criminal very accurately, is given a peace prize!

People should be given a peace prize not on the basis of promises they have made – as with Obama, an eloquent maker of promises – but on the basis of actual accomplishments towards ending war, and Obama has continued deadly, inhuman military action in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

The Nobel peace committee should retire, and turn over its huge funds to some international peace organization which is not awed by stardom and rhetoric, and which has some understanding of history.
don't compete; coexist

what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Meh.

    Not quite as juvenile as when republicans decided to piss on war wounded by wearing bandaids with Purple Heart stickers on them in an attempt to smear John Kerry, a war hero with two purple hearts.

    But almost.
  • Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    Jasunmark wrote:
    Meh.

    Not quite as juvenile as when republicans decided to piss on war wounded by wearing bandaids with Purple Heart stickers on them in an attempt to smear John Kerry, a war hero with two purple hearts.

    But almost.


    overreact much?
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • Jasunmark wrote:
    Meh.

    Not quite as juvenile as when republicans decided to piss on war wounded by wearing bandaids with Purple Heart stickers on them in an attempt to smear John Kerry, a war hero with two purple hearts.

    But almost.


    overreact much?

    And this from the guy who made what.. like THREE threads and/or posts about "PAY THE MOB OR GO TO JAIL" yesterday. :lol:
  • Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    Jasunmark wrote:
    Jasunmark wrote:
    Meh.

    Not quite as juvenile as when republicans decided to piss on war wounded by wearing bandaids with Purple Heart stickers on them in an attempt to smear John Kerry, a war hero with two purple hearts.

    But almost.


    overreact much?

    And this from the guy who made what.. like THREE threads and/or posts about "PAY THE MOB OR GO TO JAIL" yesterday. :lol:


    2 but what does that have to do with anything in THIS thread?? what i posted was true, wasn't it? they are voting on that bill soon and if that bill passes and is signed into law then you HAVE to buy health insurance or pay a tax, if you fail to pay this tax you can be fined up to $25,000 and up to 1 year in jail....i made a thread about it and remembered in another you claimed anything like that was nonsense.... in fact your exact words were
    If there were any truth to that I'd be very angry. Luckily for us both, that's not true. Not even close. There is NOTHING in ANY version of the bill that says if you don't purchase the public option insurance that you'll be fined or sent to jail. Anyone who's telling you any different is full of crap.

    i showed you where a version of the bill does in fact say this and instead of admitting to being wrong you say 'yeah, well it's only 1 version of the bill!' make up your mind! :lol:
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,977
    all very true, but i especially appreciate the ending statements:

    "People should be given a peace prize not on the basis of promises they have made – as with Obama, an eloquent maker of promises – but on the basis of actual accomplishments towards ending war, and Obama has continued deadly, inhuman military action in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

    The Nobel peace committee should retire, and turn over its huge funds to some international peace organization which is not awed by stardom and rhetoric, and which has some understanding of history."


    i don't get how they could award a man who is currently president of a country at war a peace prize. it makes zero sense, and reads like an oxymoron at best. while i support a great many of obama's ideals and ideas, he still has a loooonnnggggg way to go im implementation. so absolutely, a peace prize NOW? simply does not compute.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • VINNY GOOMBAVINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,818
    If the Peace Prize has been given to Woodrow Wilson and Henry Kissinger, it has never has had, or never will ever have any real importance in my eyes.
  • PearlJainPearlJain Posts: 565
    i think it's stupid for others to read Howard Zinn and his "Utopitarian" ideas just because Eddie Vedder thinks he's fabulous. Grow your OWN minds people. Although I don't have my Master Degree in "Rainbow-ology" and no one cares what I personally think (same applies to you).......I read, and read, and oh yeah, I read....and then I draw my own conclusions. I can like music, and not become a "worshipper." Don't be creepy.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated - Gandhi

    "Empty pockets will Allow a greater Sense of wealth...." EV/ITW
  • PearlJainPearlJain Posts: 565
    P.S.
    "Worshipping" doesn't stop with music/bands. Obama did not earn the Peace Prize....which makes it irrelevent. He needs to get off of his ass and decide what to do in Afganistan. Obama makes me SICK!
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated - Gandhi

    "Empty pockets will Allow a greater Sense of wealth...." EV/ITW
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    PearlJain wrote:
    i think it's stupid for others to read Howard Zinn and his "Utopitarian" ideas just because Eddie Vedder thinks he's fabulous. Grow your OWN minds people. Although I don't have my Master Degree in "Rainbow-ology" and no one cares what I personally think (same applies to you).......I read, and read, and oh yeah, I read....and then I draw my own conclusions. I can like music, and not become a "worshipper." Don't be creepy.
    zinn may be the most important intellectual alive today. if more people were turned onto him terrible things could have been avoided....war in iraq for one.


    more people need to know about him....and what better way than a rock concert with 15,000 people listening to every word?
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    PearlJain wrote:
    i think it's stupid for others to read Howard Zinn and his "Utopitarian" ideas just because Eddie Vedder thinks he's fabulous. Grow your OWN minds people. Although I don't have my Master Degree in "Rainbow-ology" and no one cares what I personally think (same applies to you).......I read, and read, and oh yeah, I read....and then I draw my own conclusions. I can like music, and not become a "worshipper." Don't be creepy.
    :?:

    not being a worshipper.....funny coming from someone that has an ed vedder line in her signature.

    zinn's point of view is very important and very relevent to the times we are living in. i was not turned on to him by eddie. maybe if you read his books you might learn something. maybe a different perspective on the history you have been taught.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    PearlJain wrote:
    i think it's stupid for others to read Howard Zinn and his "Utopitarian" ideas just because Eddie Vedder thinks he's fabulous. Grow your OWN minds people. Although I don't have my Master Degree in "Rainbow-ology" and no one cares what I personally think (same applies to you).......I read, and read, and oh yeah, I read....and then I draw my own conclusions. I can like music, and not become a "worshipper." Don't be creepy.
    :?:

    not being a worshipper.....funny coming from someone that has an ed vedder line in her signature.

    zinn's point of view is very important and very relevent to the times we are living in. i was not turned on to him by eddie. maybe if you read his books you might learn something. maybe a different perspective on the history you have been taught.
    true. history from the point of view of the oppressed is eye opening, to say the least.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    kissinger pretty much sums it up ...

    really - the selection committe have no idea what peace really means
  • tybirdtybird Posts: 17,388
    Commy wrote:
    zinn may be the most important intellectual alive today.
    Nope, that's E.O. Wilson. :twisted:
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • If there were any truth to that I'd be very angry. Luckily for us both, that's not true. Not even close. There is NOTHING in ANY version of the bill that says if you don't purchase the public option insurance that you'll be fined or sent to jail. Anyone who's telling you any different is full of crap.

    i showed you where a version of the bill does in fact say this and instead of admitting to being wrong you say 'yeah, well it's only 1 version of the bill!' make up your mind! :lol:

    Well but no... if you read what I wrote there, it's PUBLIC OPTION insurance that I was talking about. I was responding to a poster who said "If you don't buy Obamacare you'll go to jail" which is total bullshit. Yes... the Baucus BIll does have something about not having insurance at all.. but it doesn't specify the public option.

    I stand by what I said... the bill doesn't say "if you don't buy Obama's Public Health Care, you'll go to jail."
  • Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    Jasunmark wrote:
    If there were any truth to that I'd be very angry. Luckily for us both, that's not true. Not even close. There is NOTHING in ANY version of the bill that says if you don't purchase the public option insurance that you'll be fined or sent to jail. Anyone who's telling you any different is full of crap.

    i showed you where a version of the bill does in fact say this and instead of admitting to being wrong you say 'yeah, well it's only 1 version of the bill!' make up your mind! :lol:

    Well but no... if you read what I wrote there, it's PUBLIC OPTION insurance that I was talking about. I was responding to a poster who said "If you don't buy Obamacare you'll go to jail" which is total bullshit. Yes... the Baucus BIll does have something about not having insurance at all.. but it doesn't specify the public option.

    I stand by what I said... the bill doesn't say "if you don't buy Obama's Public Health Care, you'll go to jail."


    ok, you said you be mad if it were true, so what you're saying is if you could be fined $25,000 and imprisoned for not buying a public option plan you would be mad but since you would instead be forced to buy a private plan or pay a $1,900 tax or be fined up to $25,000 and imprisoned it's ok?
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • ok, you said you be mad if it were true, so what you're saying is if you could be fined $25,000 and imprisoned for not buying a public option plan you would be mad but since you would instead be forced to buy a private plan or pay a $1,900 tax or be fined up to $25,000 and imprisoned it's ok?


    I have a sneaking suspicion that there's a bit more to it than that. I'll have to look into it.

    But you at least agree that nobody is going to be forced to take the public OPTION, right?
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