Pearl Jam songwriting credits

Hugh Freaking Dillon

as a musician in a band, I sometimes struggle with the idea of who gets credit on a song as it pertains to who wrote it, lyrics and music. In my mind, if I come up with a song on guitar and vocals and/or bass, but my lead guitarist comes up with the solo, the drummer comes up with his own part, to me that means it was a collaborative effort. Each person gets equal credit on that song.

On all PJ songs, it is detailed in the liner notes who wrote the words and music. I find it interesting that they would, in many cases, credit one person with writing the music. Is the premise behind this that this particular person came up with the originating riff? What about the evoloution of the song through jamming, banging it out during the process? Jeff Ament, for instance, even if he only has credit on one song on Backspacer, his bass lines fill what would be a big void in the song had he not come up with his part of the music. Does that not constitute a writing credit?

I guess all bands credit songs in a different way, but to me, if my drummer writes his own parts, and I'm not telling him what to play, then he gets credit on that song.

I have been at odds with my lead guitarist on this issue (he thinks only he and I should get credit on the album, not the other two), and with being in the midst of the recording of our debut ourselves, I'd like some outside views on this. I have no problem with one person taking credit for the lyrics, as that's much more quantifiable in my eyes.

Any other musicians and non-musicians alike out there want to weigh in? Anyone know how PJ chooses who to credit and when?

MC170228

I would have to agree. Also being a musician each individual adds their own flair and style to each song. I have always like the way the Chili Peppers credit everyone in the band for every song. I get the feeling that PJ gives credit for the riff writer or the melody writer credit for song writing. But I am not sure. We sort of get a glimpse during Single Video Theory when Ed listens to Stone's riff for I think it was In Hiding. It would make sense to give credit to the melody writer, and have it go without saying that all the other musicians play their own parts. But I am sure everyone has their own opinion on who gets credit for writing the song.

Pearl James

Well all songs have a root, and usually whoever creates that root is usually credited with the song. Many songs roots are riffs, so the person who created the riff is often credited for writing the music to the song because all the other instruments played with it are played with the riff. Many times it will also be the vocals, bass, and drums that are the roots to the songs. So I think the person on each song who gets credited, they are the one who thinks of the root of the song. Songs like SuperSonic, the root is that explosive riff that Stone wrote, so Stone is credited with the song. Got Some has an extremely prominent bassline, and is the root of the song, so Jeff is credited with writing the music.

BG44858

remember also in single video theory when jack says his favorite time is when the song is "given"
i think that's who gets the credit, who's playing it when it becomes a song... the rest of the pieces
enhance the song, but there's a moment when it actually becomes a song

MC170228

I just remembered, I think that the only PJ song to give all members credit is "Release". Check the liner notes. I wonder if Wash would be the same. I am not sure but I think that both songs were written about the same way.

DeRamos

I'd say, as a rule of thumb, the three parts that more-or-less make a song are lyrics, melody, and (for lack of a better term) "tonality." The first two are easy to define (assuming that "melody" refers primarily to the vocal line); the last one is the tricky area. You can say whoever came up with the chord progressions for the song (verses, choruses, bridges, etc.) wrote the music, but that can get tricky.

Hypothetically, let's say that Ed writes a chord progression in 6/8 time in D A G. Stone comes in and comes up with a hooky riff over the D chord, and modifies the next chord as A7, and does a G5-to-G6 riff for the last chord. During the recording process, the band and producer(s) decide to delete Ed's strummy rhythm and make Stone's riff (over Ed's key of D framework) the centerpiece of the song. Is this Ed's music alone, as the song is still works without Stone's hypothetical riff (i.e., Ed could play the song solo whenever he does a pre-set performance)? Or is this now a collaboration between Ed and Stone?

In any case, there definitely has to be an agreement between Ed and Stone, and perhaps other members of the band, for songwriting credit. But what if Matt comes in and says that they should go 5/4 when they play the G chord section, and this idea works?

As far as "Got Some" goes, I assume that Jeff wrote the chord progressions involved and much of the arrangement, and that's why he was credited for writing the music. Mike had the freedom to come up with any lead licks, as well as Matt with any cool drum fills, but ultimately, the music was Jeff's.

I suppose (and this won't work in all situations) you can strip the song of its parts to determine who wrote the music: If you take away all lead guitar, including the face-melting, epic solo, is this song still recognizable? If you take away the bassline, is this the same song? If you remove any fancy tempo changes and potentially iconic drum fills, does the song still work? If you perform the song with regular chords instead of a recognizable riff in the same key, what happens?

Alternatively, if you change the genre of the song, say, from a rock 'n roll arrangement to a weepy country ballad (fiddles, lap steel, and some vocal twang might do it LOL), and the song still marginally works, then I'd say that the chord/melody writer(s) wrote the music. The other band members just added to the song, without fundamentally changing it. It's definitely tricky to determine these things.

I wish you, Johnny Sitar, the best of luck regarding your band's songwriting situation!

Cheers,
Ryan

HeavyHands

DeRamos wrote:

I'd say, as a rule of thumb, the three parts that more-or-less make a song are lyrics, melody, and (for lack of a better term) "tonality." The first two are easy to define (assuming that "melody" refers primarily to the vocal line); the last one is the tricky area...

Not only is this thread an interesting topic for a non-musician to read, DeRamos description is exceptionally informative, easy to follow, and very well explained. I wish I had something more to contribute, but I'll just say thanks to those who do.

***EDIT***

Also, with respect to one of the posts above, I believe that every song on Vs. is credited to the entire band rather than individuals. I think this was done as a kind of one-for-all team/band-effort rather than to say that they each contributed equally in terms of some of the concepts DeRamos expounded on above though...

Hugh Freaking Dillon

HeavyHands wrote:

....DeRamos description is exceptionally informative, easy to follow, and very well explained....

very enlightening, indeed. :thumbup:

Reno1979

Having done all this with a lawyer in an office when I had a band with a small record deal... I can tell you that you learn the word "derivative" very quickly. Basically the way we ended up doing things was whomever was the person or persons to layout the chord structure, basic rhythms and melodies, received credit for writing the music. Guitar solos, drum patterns, bass lines, fills, etc... were all derivative in that they would not have ever happened if that basic song was not there first... Then the lyrics where given credit which is pretty straight forward. Composing and arranging are different. Composing and deriving a suitable bass line are different.

Bass players and drummers get the shaft unless they sit down and bang out some structure that was not already there. Usually this is done on guitar, piano, or in your head... rarely on bass. So by default guitar players and those who can play guitar or another instrument that can write one, usually structure/compose/write the songs.

Our last record had one song that our Bass player was given all the music writing credit to. He literally just showed me a chord pattern and rhythm on his bass which was the skeleton of a very basic straight ahead 4 chord song. No fills, coloring chords, solos or drum parts really changed the body of those simple patterns he showed us.

You will notice some bands will start out on their first record saying ALL SONG WRITTEN BY: (Insert Band Name). Then after their is success, and money involved, things get different.