Poll: 76% of Americans want public option

blondieblue227

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/1 ... 17175.html

so then why don’t Dems ram it thru Congress? They have the majority there. They’re such pussys. I can’t stand them.
Our elected officials do not work for what the people want.

soulsinging

Kinda goes to show how moronic the American public is when they support a public option and then say they oppose Obama's plan yet support all the things it calls for... they obviously have no idea what his plan really is.

Can I be for a public option and totally opposed to any employer mandate? I think employer mandates are bullshit and I think insurance companies need a little low budget competition. Why isn't auto insurance tied to your job? So why should health insurance be? It just allows insurance companies to price fix and raid the deep pockets of legit businesses while squeezing out any sort of individualized plans that might actually force them to compete to attract clients based on the quality of their plans and their costs, rather than how well they can woo/strong arm companies into buying into their group plans.

OnTheEdge

76%? depends where you get your polls from I guess.

aerial

Sneaky Senators' Shenanigans

Webster's Dictionary defines "Shenanigan as : a devious trick used especially for an underhand purpose"




the following are items in the healthcare bill soon to be voted on (in the next 2 weeks or BEFORE):

Individual mandate to buy health insurance
-- The Federal Government will tax and fine you if you don't buy what you are told to buy: overpriced, government-created, politicized health insurance. You could spend a year in jail if you don't buy it! This is true and it's in the bill!
--
Premiums will go up, not down. Insurance companies will get guaranteed profits and will be given government rationing powers. This is true and it's in the bill!

Government Rationing Committees
-- 15 senior level government bureaucrats are already appointed to determine what medical services would be authorized (This was created in the "stimulus bill.") (This is called a Comparative Effectiveness panel and there are no actively practicing doctors on the panel).
-- Another 15 member panel (IMAC) will decide what would be paid for and will be given Congressional powers of spending and will ration care.

Doctors and hospitals will be placed on a budget - for your medical spending
-- A one size fits all budget will be created for your medical care.
Hospitals and doctors will make more money if spend less money on you.
-- Doctors that WANT to spend more money on you will be punished.

"Budget Reconciliation" and "Vapor Bill"
-- Reconciliation: It's purpose is to combine into one bill the work of multiple committees that are changing federal spending and tax laws. The Senate would use only 51 votes to ram through a takeover of the largest sector of the American economy in history! 60 votes is the standard. Harry Reid said a few days ago: "If we can't work this out to do something within the committee structure, then we'll be forced to do reconciliation." Reconciliation is usually used only to change spending, taxes, or the debt limit. They may try to sneak in healthcare reform to "reduce spending on Medicare, Medicaid, etc." Keep watch on this sneaky tactic.
-- Vapor Bill: Another dirty trick is to attach the bill as an amendment to a TARP or other bill.

Senators refuse to read the bill
"I will not read the legislative language. It is one of the most confusing things I have read in my life. Most of us can't understand this." - Senator Thomas Carper (D-Del)

WHAT? Are you kidding us? Nope - see for yourself at Too Confusing to understand!


OKAY STOP THE INSANITY AND
STOP THE HEALTHCARE BILL!!

Here's why:

1. We are broke!! We can not afford it.
2. Unemployment is at 9.8% and rising. Focus focus focus - it's the economy, stupid!
3. Sneaky tactics means corruption. Get out the shredder and shred this bill!
4. You can not send me to jail because I refuse to buy health insurance. It's Un-Constitutional and illegal!
5. If you can't understand it - how the heck do you plan to implement it?

gimmesometruth27

aerial wrote:

Sneaky Senators' Shenanigans

Webster's Dictionary defines "Shenanigan as : a devious trick used especially for an underhand purpose"




the following are items in the healthcare bill soon to be voted on (in the next 2 weeks or BEFORE):

Individual mandate to buy health insurance
-- The Federal Government will tax and fine you if you don't buy what you are told to buy: overpriced, government-created, politicized health insurance. You could spend a year in jail if you don't buy it! This is true and it's in the bill!
--
Premiums will go up, not down. Insurance companies will get guaranteed profits and will be given government rationing powers. This is true and it's in the bill!

Government Rationing Committees
-- 15 senior level government bureaucrats are already appointed to determine what medical services would be authorized (This was created in the "stimulus bill.") (This is called a Comparative Effectiveness panel and there are no actively practicing doctors on the panel).
-- Another 15 member panel (IMAC) will decide what would be paid for and will be given Congressional powers of spending and will ration care.

Doctors and hospitals will be placed on a budget - for your medical spending
-- A one size fits all budget will be created for your medical care.
Hospitals and doctors will make more money if spend less money on you.
-- Doctors that WANT to spend more money on you will be punished.

"Budget Reconciliation" and "Vapor Bill"
-- Reconciliation: It's purpose is to combine into one bill the work of multiple committees that are changing federal spending and tax laws. The Senate would use only 51 votes to ram through a takeover of the largest sector of the American economy in history! 60 votes is the standard. Harry Reid said a few days ago: "If we can't work this out to do something within the committee structure, then we'll be forced to do reconciliation." Reconciliation is usually used only to change spending, taxes, or the debt limit. They may try to sneak in healthcare reform to "reduce spending on Medicare, Medicaid, etc." Keep watch on this sneaky tactic.
-- Vapor Bill: Another dirty trick is to attach the bill as an amendment to a TARP or other bill.

Senators refuse to read the bill
"I will not read the legislative language. It is one of the most confusing things I have read in my life. Most of us can't understand this." - Senator Thomas Carper (D-Del)

WHAT? Are you kidding us? Nope - see for yourself at Too Confusing to understand!


OKAY STOP THE INSANITY AND
STOP THE HEALTHCARE BILL!!

Here's why:

1. We are broke!! We can not afford it.
2. Unemployment is at 9.8% and rising. Focus focus focus - it's the economy, stupid!
3. Sneaky tactics means corruption. Get out the shredder and shred this bill!
4. You can not send me to jail because I refuse to buy health insurance. It's Un-Constitutional and illegal!
5. If you can't understand it - how the heck do you plan to implement it?

this comes off as a little slanted to me. from where did you get this information? please post a link so i can check out the website and look around a bit.

Eliot Rosewater

blondieblue227 wrote:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/17/obama-boost-new-poll-show_n_217175.html

so then why don’t Dems ram it thru Congress? They have the majority there. They’re such pussys. I can’t stand them.
Our elected officials do not work for what the people want.

This bullshit plan that lobbyist-friendly Obama (despite his bullshit campaign saying he's supposed to not be for special interests) has me angry on so many levels. But most recently, and most personally, it's because my gf has been uninsured for over a year now and has undergone two brain surgeries, nearly a month in the hospital and over half of that in the ICU, with NINE different and steady prescriptions. She's finally home for now, but has to stay on an IV for at least another month. And this shit ain't free. Not that I'm saying it SHOULD be. Well, maybe I am. But it certainly shouldn't ruin our lives financially. Total bills are well into the hundreds of thousands at this point. With her inability to work plus the high cost of prescriptions and constant calls for payment arrangements for dozens of bills we can't even pay the fucking rent.

So now what? Someone like me who busts his ass every day at work is to do what? I already do what I think is the best solution and that is vote my conscience. Say what you will about Nader but this is one of the many, many, MANY problems for which he would have a REAL solution.

btw, my gf blogs from time to time and if you'd like to keep tabs on her you can check her out at http://hollysbrainblog.blogspot.com/ She's been pretty down lately and could use some encouragement if anyone has a minute to drop her a note.

TriumphantAngel

Eliot Rosewater, i have not seen you post for such a long time in here, it's good to see you are back. i'm so sorry to hear about your gf :( , i hope she feels better soon. your whole situation is wrong on so many levels. it is completely unfair that financially you are suffering so bad. as if you don't already have enough to cope with, with the emotional strain you are both going through. i really feel for you. thank you for the link to her blog. i'll check it out and send good vibes her way.

also friend, i was just thinking like, say, when I disappear and come back, I at least bring cookies. jeez.

SolarWorld

If you are scared of being sent to jail because you might refuse a mandate that doesn't exist yet... you have problems. Just saying.

Fuck Insurance Companies. Nothing more than dirty ass crooked middle men.

Eliot Rosewater

TriumphantAngel wrote:

Eliot Rosewater, i have not seen you post for such a long time in here, it's good to see you are back. i'm so sorry to hear about your gf :( , i hope she feels better soon. your whole situation is wrong on so many levels. it is completely unfair that financially you are suffering so bad. as if you don't already have enough to cope with, with the emotional strain you are both going through. i really feel for you. thank you for the link to her blog. i'll check it out and send good vibes her way.

also friend, i was just thinking like, say, when I disappear and come back, I at least bring cookies. jeez.

Hey TA, thanks for the welcome back and I'll make sure to bring cookies when returning from my next hiatus

With so much already going on with work and life and love and tumors....not too much time left for the Moving Train. But I'll make sure to drop in once in a while. This forum definitely keeps everything interesting.

Gern Blansten

blondieblue227 wrote:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/17/obama-boost-new-poll-show_n_217175.html

so then why don’t Dems ram it thru Congress? They have the majority there. They’re such pussys. I can’t stand them.
Our elected officials do not work for what the people want.

I'm convinced that the lobbyists have pumped so much money into the Dem (and GOP) coffers that we will never see a bill that doesn't have the insurance company lobby approval.

We are fucked...the public is so fucking uninformed about this I could barf.

Solat13

That poll was from June. Current polls show support for the public option ranging between 40-45%.

Also, at the end of the article you posted:

In the same NBC/WSJ poll, only 33 percent of respondents said they thought the president's health care plan, to the extent they knew of it, was a "good idea;"

So it's not quite as simple as ramming it through.

blackredyellow

aerial wrote:

Sneaky Senators' Shenanigans

Webster's Dictionary defines "Shenanigan as : a devious trick used especially for an underhand purpose"




the following are items in the healthcare bill soon to be voted on (in the next 2 weeks or BEFORE):

Individual mandate to buy health insurance
-- The Federal Government will tax and fine you if you don't buy what you are told to buy: overpriced, government-created, politicized health insurance. You could spend a year in jail if you don't buy it! This is true and it's in the bill!
--
Premiums will go up, not down. Insurance companies will get guaranteed profits and will be given government rationing powers. This is true and it's in the bill!

Government Rationing Committees
-- 15 senior level government bureaucrats are already appointed to determine what medical services would be authorized (This was created in the "stimulus bill.") (This is called a Comparative Effectiveness panel and there are no actively practicing doctors on the panel).
-- Another 15 member panel (IMAC) will decide what would be paid for and will be given Congressional powers of spending and will ration care.

Doctors and hospitals will be placed on a budget - for your medical spending
-- A one size fits all budget will be created for your medical care.
Hospitals and doctors will make more money if spend less money on you.
-- Doctors that WANT to spend more money on you will be punished.

"Budget Reconciliation" and "Vapor Bill"
-- Reconciliation: It's purpose is to combine into one bill the work of multiple committees that are changing federal spending and tax laws. The Senate would use only 51 votes to ram through a takeover of the largest sector of the American economy in history! 60 votes is the standard. Harry Reid said a few days ago: "If we can't work this out to do something within the committee structure, then we'll be forced to do reconciliation." Reconciliation is usually used only to change spending, taxes, or the debt limit. They may try to sneak in healthcare reform to "reduce spending on Medicare, Medicaid, etc." Keep watch on this sneaky tactic.
-- Vapor Bill: Another dirty trick is to attach the bill as an amendment to a TARP or other bill.

Senators refuse to read the bill
"I will not read the legislative language. It is one of the most confusing things I have read in my life. Most of us can't understand this." - Senator Thomas Carper (D-Del)

WHAT? Are you kidding us? Nope - see for yourself at Too Confusing to understand!


OKAY STOP THE INSANITY AND
STOP THE HEALTHCARE BILL!!

Here's why:

1. We are broke!! We can not afford it.
2. Unemployment is at 9.8% and rising. Focus focus focus - it's the economy, stupid!
3. Sneaky tactics means corruption. Get out the shredder and shred this bill!
4. You can not send me to jail because I refuse to buy health insurance. It's Un-Constitutional and illegal!
5. If you can't understand it - how the heck do you plan to implement it?

It's fun to forward chain e-mails with a bunch of made up crap on them...

gimmesometruth27

blackredyellow wrote:

aerial wrote:

Sneaky Senators' Shenanigans

Webster's Dictionary defines "Shenanigan as : a devious trick used especially for an underhand purpose"




the following are items in the healthcare bill soon to be voted on (in the next 2 weeks or BEFORE):

Individual mandate to buy health insurance
-- The Federal Government will tax and fine you if you don't buy what you are told to buy: overpriced, government-created, politicized health insurance. You could spend a year in jail if you don't buy it! This is true and it's in the bill!
--
Premiums will go up, not down. Insurance companies will get guaranteed profits and will be given government rationing powers. This is true and it's in the bill!

Government Rationing Committees
-- 15 senior level government bureaucrats are already appointed to determine what medical services would be authorized (This was created in the "stimulus bill.") (This is called a Comparative Effectiveness panel and there are no actively practicing doctors on the panel).
-- Another 15 member panel (IMAC) will decide what would be paid for and will be given Congressional powers of spending and will ration care.

Doctors and hospitals will be placed on a budget - for your medical spending
-- A one size fits all budget will be created for your medical care.
Hospitals and doctors will make more money if spend less money on you.
-- Doctors that WANT to spend more money on you will be punished.

"Budget Reconciliation" and "Vapor Bill"
-- Reconciliation: It's purpose is to combine into one bill the work of multiple committees that are changing federal spending and tax laws. The Senate would use only 51 votes to ram through a takeover of the largest sector of the American economy in history! 60 votes is the standard. Harry Reid said a few days ago: "If we can't work this out to do something within the committee structure, then we'll be forced to do reconciliation." Reconciliation is usually used only to change spending, taxes, or the debt limit. They may try to sneak in healthcare reform to "reduce spending on Medicare, Medicaid, etc." Keep watch on this sneaky tactic.
-- Vapor Bill: Another dirty trick is to attach the bill as an amendment to a TARP or other bill.

Senators refuse to read the bill
"I will not read the legislative language. It is one of the most confusing things I have read in my life. Most of us can't understand this." - Senator Thomas Carper (D-Del)

WHAT? Are you kidding us? Nope - see for yourself at Too Confusing to understand!


OKAY STOP THE INSANITY AND
STOP THE HEALTHCARE BILL!!

Here's why:

1. We are broke!! We can not afford it.
2. Unemployment is at 9.8% and rising. Focus focus focus - it's the economy, stupid!
3. Sneaky tactics means corruption. Get out the shredder and shred this bill!
4. You can not send me to jail because I refuse to buy health insurance. It's Un-Constitutional and illegal!
5. If you can't understand it - how the heck do you plan to implement it?

It's fun to forward chain e-mails with a bunch of made up crap on them...

yeah i get stuff like that sent to me all the time. i thought it was cut and pasted from a website...i stopped reading these emails long ago because all of it is so slanted i would never ever post it on here because they are generally so partisan and with doctored stats and info, even made up "facts". all they do is push an agenda for a specific group or PAC.

kenny olav

I think it's clear that a strong majority want universal health care. I think this has been true for a long time. The issue is whether our government can handle it.

Eliot Rosewater

Kenny Olav wrote:

I think it's clear that a strong majority want universal health care. I think this has been true for a long time. The issue is whether our government can handle it.

Very true. I don't trust our government with a plastic spoon and pack of red jello. As soon as I leave the room I know they're gonna turn into dumb fucking monkeys bouncing around and flinging shit and jello everywhere.

So this is where it becomes difficult. Is our government truly just fucking stupid and inept? Because others make this work. Or is this 100% about greed and who is blowing who etc?

Gern Blansten

Eliot Rosewater wrote:

Kenny Olav wrote:

I think it's clear that a strong majority want universal health care. I think this has been true for a long time. The issue is whether our government can handle it.

Very true. I don't trust our government with a plastic spoon and pack of red jello. As soon as I leave the room I know they're gonna turn into dumb fucking monkeys bouncing around and flinging shit and jello everywhere.

So this is where it becomes difficult. Is our government truly just fucking stupid and inept? Because others make this work. Or is this 100% about greed and who is blowing who etc?

Our government makes this work right now. Medicare operates at 3% overhead....yes it is underfunded but if it was fully funded that 3% drops even further. Insurance companies operate at 14-20% overhead and are fully funded.

Medicare is ready to be our single payer system....that's where we need to go in my opinion

blondieblue227

Gern Blansten wrote:

blondieblue227 wrote:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/17/obama-boost-new-poll-show_n_217175.html

so then why don’t Dems ram it thru Congress? They have the majority there. They’re such pussys. I can’t stand them.
Our elected officials do not work for what the people want.

I'm convinced that the lobbyists have pumped so much money into the Dem (and GOP) coffers that we will never see a bill that doesn't have the insurance company lobby approval.

We are fucked...the public is so fucking uninformed about this I could barf.

i agree!
Lobbyist run everything!
There’s no way to get them out of DC it seems.
I wonder what our four fathers would think of the lobbyists?
For the people by the people hasn’t applied in a long time.

…..oh yea there’s no excuse to be uninformed these days. Internet. Trick is to not get your information from one source because they’re all basis.

gimmesometruth27

Eliot Rosewater wrote:

Kenny Olav wrote:

I think it's clear that a strong majority want universal health care. I think this has been true for a long time. The issue is whether our government can handle it.

Very true. I don't trust our government with a plastic spoon and pack of red jello. As soon as I leave the room I know they're gonna turn into dumb fucking monkeys bouncing around and flinging shit and jello everywhere.

So this is where it becomes difficult. Is our government truly just fucking stupid and inept? Because others make this work. Or is this 100% about greed and who is blowing who etc?

well then how do you know that if a public plan existed that you and your girlfriend would be saddled with the same financial liabilities? maybe it would have been paid for.... i would rather give my money to the government than a damn insurance company that will undoubtedly deny the claims.

Eliot Rosewater

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Eliot Rosewater wrote:

Kenny Olav wrote:

I think it's clear that a strong majority want universal health care. I think this has been true for a long time. The issue is whether our government can handle it.

Very true. I don't trust our government with a plastic spoon and pack of red jello. As soon as I leave the room I know they're gonna turn into dumb fucking monkeys bouncing around and flinging shit and jello everywhere.

So this is where it becomes difficult. Is our government truly just fucking stupid and inept? Because others make this work. Or is this 100% about greed and who is blowing who etc?

well then how do you know that if a public plan existed that you and your girlfriend would be saddled with the same financial liabilities? maybe it would have been paid for.... i would rather give my money to the government than a damn insurance company that will undoubtedly deny the claims.

You are absolutely correct. Instead of worrying about a flawless system I think it makes much more sense to just take steps forward, even if they are small and not perfectly straight steps.

blondieblue227

Eliot Rosewater wrote:

You are absolutely correct. Instead of worrying about a flawless system I think it makes much more sense to just take steps forward, even if they are small and not perfectly straight steps.

i agree.
we can't just sit around and do nothing. heathcare reform has been on the table since LBJ.
nothing we come up with will be the perfect plan. but something has to be done and now!
quit passing the buck.