pearl jam and religion

tremors

Hi Tinkerbell.

I'm sorry I pissed you off with the length and style of my post. No, I'm not a professor of anything, just somebody who has been forced to confront some difficult issues in life, and who believes that in a forum based entirely around words, it is sometimes worth trying to get them right. If I'm honest (and I'm not trying to provoke you here), it probably took you longer to read that post than it took me to write it (it took me longer to read it back too).

I'm disappointed you thought I was solely spouting my own views though, because the reason I quoted so many specific phrases from the lyrics was to try and provide some substance to the argument. If I was writing some essay I would have probably put the quotes in amongst the related points of the argument.

OK, I know my long posts seem to cause outrage here, but it does upset me that talking at some length about religion (arguably one of the most difficult subjects we human beings will ever discuss amongst ourselves), and quoting a lot of Pearl Jam lyrics, in a Pearl Jam fan's forum is like red rag to a bull somehow.

If we were chatting about how many times we've heard the Fixer on the radio then I can see how a couple of quick lines about when we first heard it would make sense, but when someone brings up Pearl Jam's stance on religion, I just thought it merited a little more thought. I've always avoided posting on this topic before, despite seeing it come up over and over again......

Anyway, I'll shut up now for fear of writing another essay, but I guess the part of your post which I thought was factually incorrect was that I was just stating a baseless opinion. I thought I had at least tried to provide the grounds on which I based my subjective opinion, ie the words in the songs!

I won't say peace since I fear it may well end up stirring us both up further.

Sorry I irritated you I guess?

tremors

Tinkerbell, I have been thinking a bit more about your criticism of my posting style and other (maybe valid) criticisms of some of my other posts. It is true that I am struggling to fit back into the forum, find my place and discover my 'voice' here again, whilst not upsetting people with my arrogant and lengthy posts.

It's difficult though, because when I first signed up here in 2000 I felt really really welcomed by people like hedonist and PJ mom who kind of used to rule the roost back then. I started off posting tentatively but they would encourage me and say stuff like 'tell us more about that......'. As a result I wrote more, felt valued and fitted in, and my writing was appreciated. It wouldn't be unusual back then for us to stay up half the night getting into some pretty thorough, lengthy and intense analysis of songs, politics, relationships, sociology whatever (which are after all some of the major themes of Pearl Jam's work). To be honest I think the level of debate and the expectation of this was far higher back then. I never used to get told off for being too long-winded or using big words!

Things change though, the forum has changed and I have changed. I probably need to alter my style. I think for the community that we were, Roskilde hit everyone very hard, and each in very very different ways; and we fractured over the following years, and when they relaunched the board a lot of people went their separate ways (also some major run-ins with the Mods and bannings I seem to remember).

As for me, I know my writing (here and elsewhere) can be terrible, totally miss the mark and make people cringe (it does me when I re-read it too!); I also know that I can hit the target spot on and write really well at times, and sustain this for long periods; and in the outside world when I do this people pay me proper money for it. So you can see that I'm not looking to you to validate my merits as a writer, I can get that from other external sources (who are often not nearly so hostile to analytic writing as some PJ fans appear to be nowadays!)

I guess that's it. I'll try to write shorter posts!

tinkerbell

Tremors

I'm sorry if you felt attacked by what I said in my post. I believe in free speech and people’s right to believe what they want.

I don't however appreciate being insulted with condescending remarks like the use of 'big words' or your statement that you had proved your point with the lyrics you had quoted. Because of your beliefs you will read things into lyrics. I do the same (with opposing beliefs I can see many references to back up my thoughts that Eddie, at least, holds my same views).

I again appologise if you felt offended by what I posted.

I think from now on I will stay away from any thread to do with religion.

I truely wish Peace to all 10C members, even those who maybe view things in a different way to me.

agauthiermdphd

Hi Tremors and Tinkerbell,

It is too bad this post turned out this way. I believe this type of conversation, regardless of your own beliefs, is always better in person with a nice glass of wine or a beer. When conversations like this are face to face, body language and the tone of voice are often key factors to keeping them enjoyable, and not too serious.

I wish both of you peace.

Alain

tremors

Hi Alain, you're right, thanks!

Tinkerbell, the big words bit was partly to do with other comments I've received here, not necessarily aimed at you. The 'religious studies professor' bit was quite hard for me to interpret though. In Britain we are raised on a diet of biting sarcasm, and that's how I heard it......

Well , don't they say never discuss politics or religion in public? Something like that.

I don't think I proved any great point really, but just that I tried to highlight the song lyrics from which I had formed my personal opinion.

Anyway, it's maybe all a bit too significant to me currently, so I probably shouldn't have got involved.

I'm sure since we all enjoy the band's music we probably do have a lot in common in our hearts and in our heads. I agree Alain, a few beers and a noisy run-through of Backspacer in the same room and I'm sure we'd be getting on fine.

Thanks both

t

loveheroine

That's exactly what I thought when seeing this post... do not discuss politics or religion. It is ironic how Eddie/PJ seem to bring up politics time and time again. And apparently religion as well, through one view or another. I did read through this last argument and had to post some thoughts.

[tremors] I thought that was an interesting observation about the constant calling out towards something higher, bigger. I might not have gotten the full extent of what you meant, but I have myself noticed a lot of references to God in pearl jam lyrics, whether as a metaphor, a witty remark or a figure of speech. I will not and could not however, make an assumption as to their religious beliefs.

It is true we will all see what we want to see, and that's an accomplishment. How else can we understand anything than through our own experiences. It only shows a stubborn view, when someone actually gets offended by what another person says or believes. I mean, maybe we should not make assumptions and tread lightly, especially in such personal topics.

cultstatus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVuvh-26-AM

does this help?

agauthiermdphd

Cultstatus, thanks for the video.

In my opinion this video does and does not help the conversation of this post. Eddie's comment is, as far as I can make it out, "life is all we got as far as I know, you are going to prove something different there might be something else down the corner, no one has proven to me since so, I am just thinking life". This comment can be interpreted in many ways.

A atheist might take this as support that Eddie is saying there is nothing after life as far as he is concerned.

A person who believes in God might say that this video is vague, old and does not answer the question discussed in this forum.

In this video Eddie answers a completely different question - can you talk about the Rolling Stones and how they influenced you? The question he answers is not directly about beliefs and certainly not about religion.

The fact that this video is dated also decrease its relevance as people are allowed to change their mind over time, according to their life journey. Having children certainly has the potential to challenge someone's point of view about a millions different things. This was shot when he had short hair (as in Pearl Jam Live at the Garden 2003), before he had his first daughter in 2004.

I certainly would not put much value to what I said 5-10 years ago, and at times, not even a few minutes ago.

Cheers.

Alain

Shawshank

I don't know that it really matters what Ed or anyone else believes. I believe religion is a horrible thing, probably one of the biggest screw ups man has ever made. Religion and God are like oil and water, they don't mix. I know that may be hard for many non-believers to understand. However, I have always thought Ed straddles the fence on the issue about God. Again, it's not really relevant because it's such a personal matter, but I would bet some serious coin that he's not a full blown atheist at all. Someone posted about the Iconoclasts episode, there's also another part in there when they are sitting and watching the waves and he basically tells Laird (I'm paraphrasing) that it's hard not to believe in something bigger when you see the beauty of the waves.

Another thread was on the boards here a few months back where a guy ran into Eddie (more like stalked him), and they were talking for a bit. They began talking about their fathers, and Eddie looked up and said something to the effect, well now your dad and my dad are up there, looking down at us and smiling. Take it for what it's worth, but those are two examples I've seen where he at least considers the possibility of there being more to this life.

verbtotrust4130

lostdogs89 wrote:

does anyone know pearl jams take on religion? please thank you

I heard Eddie doing an interview one time and he said something like "I'm just trying to make the best out of this life because as far as i know, that's all we got....." Something like that, definitely not word for word..... I think one line from the song Lightyears can shed some light-- "And wherever you've gone, and wherever we might go, it don't seem fair, you seemed to like it here....." He said it was about a friend dying and how much it hurt. I think that line is saying yah maybe you went to Heaven and you're completely fine up there but I wish you were still here. you know, just saying hey I don't know what's on the other side but it seemed like you enjoyed life so much you shoudl be able to keep going with it.....

verbtotrust4130

agauthiermdphd wrote:

Here are some of my thoughts about Pearl Jam and religion based on recent lyrics by the band

From Just Breathe - Hold me till I die, meet you on the other side.
From The End which is clearly about someone dying - Before I disappear whisper in my ear, Give me something to echo in my unknown future ears.

If one assumes, and these are assumptions

1) that the lyrics written by Eddie reflect his and/or the band actual beliefs (which may be different than a few years ago, before they had kids) and are not just words that poetically sound nice, and
2) that if one believe that there is an after life (i.e. other side, unknown future as above), they also must believe in some sort of Greater Being or God

and given that spirituality is different than religion,

then one may conclude that Eddie and the band are at a stage in their lives where they believe in God.

When one explores the greatness of nature, as Eddie often does when he is near water and waves, it is hard not to believe in something greater than humans and earth. I would propose that Eddie and the band currently believe in the after life, as they suggested in the above mentioned lyrics, and therefore in the existence of a Supreme Being.

All that being said, they are the only ones who really know the answer of this question - what are their religious beliefs, if any?

I think you are onto it with what you are saying here. As you say, Eddie loves nature.. I can't imagine anybody looking at a never ending forest, or a seemingly infinite ocean, etc. and not think that somebody or something had a hand in it.... Also, not all of Eddie's lyrics are necessarily written from his point of view... often he puts himself in someone else's shoes and touches on subjects that he feels are important and worthy of singing about.... So who knows, but I get the feeling that, as others have said also, he is not completely convinced either way, but that he respects others beliefs....