pearl jam and religion
lostdogs89
Posts: 134
does anyone know pearl jams take on religion? please thank you
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I'm completely guessing, but I'd say they respect everyone's beliefs, even if they aren't that fond of them.
Glorified G..."Got a gun, in fact I got 2, that's OK man, 'cause I love God..."
Do The Evolution..."I can kill 'cause in God I trust..."
Then there's the entire song Faithfull on Yield. I really don't exactly know what it's about, but it seems to sometimes be talking about religion, and it could be interpreted in a good or bad way.
Then again, there's spiritually uplifting songs like Given to Fly, Off He Goes, Nothingman.
So yeah, my guess is they respect everyone's ideals even if theirs differ. We all know they have a lot of left-wing ideas. And I'm not trying to stir up an argument, I respect everyone's thoughts and beliefs.
I'll not lose my faith, it's an inside job today
St. Louis 5/4/10 Hope for many more!
Both of these examples are evidence of mocking the narrators use of guns and violence in the name of god. I don't think either example supports your statement.
I feel that Eddie often comes across as having distain for christianity, (and religion in general), especially in reference to examples where individuals use those institutions to validate war and oppressive behavior.
For example this summer, in Berlin, he was talking about the band Bad Religion saying, "... was a great band, still a great band! And religion is still bad!".
Also I watched one of their MSG shows, he looked through the light over him, sad something related to God, and then added, "which I do not believe in".
Those are all I know, but yes, we can find out the ideas from their songs and also from their political speachs.
But then on storytellers he says while looking up "So HELP me, God". Really speaking to Him even if lighthearted.
For me experiencing the miracle of life- having, raising, protecting my children has changed my beliefs.
If your child becomes ill or hurt or lost (as teens do) a parent will probably find themselves praying.
I think it might be like that now for the guys in the band there may be a need a connection now because of where they are in there lives.
But of course, believing in God is not the same as believing in organized religion.
At the end of his (and Laird Hamilton's) episode of Iconclasts, Eddie says, "Laird just introduced me to God." -Referring to the helicopter ride where they witnessed a double, full-circle rainbow. The way he said it definitely gave his sentence substance.
You forgot the holy trinity: Red Wine
"The selfish they're all standing in line
Faithing and hoping to buy themselves time"
A fu#*ing men to that!!!
:geek: Totally agree
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
It does seem quite evident that Ed (at least) and the band are not religious. But I also think it is quite offensive to class religious people as not being intelligent. I know too many people that are intelligent that are religious and too many people lacking in intelligence that are not religious to support that statement. It is just a belief system people have and I think you have to respect that. I myself don't believe in god or any other religious concept, but I still don;t think that any person that does or lesser intelligence because they do. Well, unless they believe in full creationsim....
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I've always gotten a mixed vibe from PJ's lyrics. As if Ed himself is not quite religious, yet not fully atheist:
"Sometimes I think to myself, Dear God!" are not words an atheist would sing.
Faithfull seems a bit pro- and anti- religion at the same time. "The man upstairs" is an obvious metaphor. Notice that the song is spelled "Faithfull," like the singer Marianne Faithfull, not "faithful," the word.
Tremor Christ is a curious title.
The main character in Given To Fly seems Jesus-like to me.
"Looking up at something that has never shown him anything," is a VERY religious lyric. In my experience, only disgruntled Christians, lapsed Catholics, etc. make statements like that. A person with no expectation of a higher power would NOT be looking for one, and therefore would not be capable of being disappointed.
I Am Mine, written in the wake of Roskilde, is passionately life-affirming...and 'after-life' denying.
But let's not forget one of E.V's very first songs, Black. At the end he cries out to his unborn child in a wish for reincarnation: "I know someday you'll have a beautiful life. I know you will be a star(or sun)in somebody else's sky."
Just a guess, but I'm betting he is unconvinced, but others in the band are believers.
In any case, beliefs can change over the span of 20 years. Hard to label someone as a believer or non believer based on lyrics that were written years ago.
2000: Phoenix
2008: Camden 2
2009: San Diego, Philly 1, Philly 2
2010: MSG 1, MSG 2
2011: Alpine 1, Alpine 2
2012: Missoula
2013: Wrigley, Phoenix, San Diego, LA1, LA2, Oakland
2014: Denver
2016: MSG1, MSG2, Fenway 1, Fenway 2
2018: Fenway 1
2022: San Diego, LA1
2024: LA1
From Just Breathe - Hold me till I die, meet you on the other side.
From The End which is clearly about someone dying - Before I disappear whisper in my ear, Give me something to echo in my unknown future ears.
If one assumes, and these are assumptions
1) that the lyrics written by Eddie reflect his and/or the band actual beliefs (which may be different than a few years ago, before they had kids) and are not just words that poetically sound nice, and
2) that if one believe that there is an after life (i.e. other side, unknown future as above), they also must believe in some sort of Greater Being or God
and given that spirituality is different than religion,
then one may conclude that Eddie and the band are at a stage in their lives where they believe in God.
When one explores the greatness of nature, as Eddie often does when he is near water and waves, it is hard not to believe in something greater than humans and earth. I would propose that Eddie and the band currently believe in the after life, as they suggested in the above mentioned lyrics, and therefore in the existence of a Supreme Being.
All that being said, they are the only ones who really know the answer of this question - what are their religious beliefs, if any?
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I remember when this thread used to come up periodically on Synergy I always learnt much more about the poster's own views on religion or atheism than I did about the band's! It's very easy for all of us to find reflected back something that exactly supports our own convictions.
One thing I have always felt from the start, listening to Eddie's lyrics is just how much he calls out for someone to hear him (and often it is someone beyond the human realm). What is calling out for help or an answer from above if not 'prayer'? If Ed is an atheist he is certainly one who has voiced a lot of prayer. His lyrics are also absolutely littered with theological / numinous language and images. (btw please don't interject your own assumption here about my own beliefs. Organised religion is one thing, and certainly the cause of many of the problems humanity faces; but belief, or religion, or faith, or hope in something 'bigger' than humanity, or the ego, or the individual is surely something quite different? Personally, (for the record): as I have grown older I have gained more and more respect for people that have some 'spiritual muscle' as I like to think of it, and that cultivating the spirit of being 'god-fearing' as a state of mind is something which is far more healthy than believing we humans are the top of the tree, the food chain, evolution the world, with no restraining or superior powers beyond us).
Anyway, back to PJ not myself - I have found an increasing resonance within the band's music as time has gone on with what I would broadly call spiritual feelings, if not necessarily religious. In the early days of Vedder's lyrics in particular (which I'm largely focusing on), there was a hell of a lot of calling out, or praying if you prefer, to which no answer ever came. As time has gone on though, I believe you can hear in the lyrics a shift; to some resolution of these pleas, completion, and towards acceptance of being part of a larger whole, a whole which is ultimately 'good' rather than cloaked in darkness. I agree, nature has a lot to do with this growing sense of completion, as it has in myself. (Maybe this happens to all of us ageing old bastards).
To hopefully substantiate some of the assertions above, I'll try and quote some snippets of Ed's lyrics from which I have formed this view. I'm probably not going to ferret around too much checking them for accuracy mind, and would prefer to do this off the top of my head and see what comes out; so if I make errors or have misheard some, please don't pillory me!
Broadly, the themes I am trying to highlight here are pleading / calling out / 'praying'; the lack of any guiding response, but also an increasing sense of echoes coming back, of resolution, forgiveness, completion, sense of 'oneness' with creation, or the whole, as well as confusion, and paradox (btw creation is a word my mother refuses to use, as a devout atheist - hell, she won't even say 'creature' which is taking things a bit far wouldn't you say...?) I may also chuck in some of the multiple multiple use of Biblical / religious / 'spiritual' vocabulary and imagery.
All I can say is if you take the position that Ed is a firm atheist; or an obvious believer, based on his lyrical content, which contains so much of a maelstrom of complex, subtle and challenging messages and questions, I would say it may just reveal something about your own rigid cosmology rather than Eddie Vedder's. These lyrics are sophisticated and profound. We need to raise our game!
By the way, rather than looking for a thread about 'deep' to say this in I may as well mention it here - it was turning the song Deep over and over back in the day, that I first realised 'this guy knows exactly what he's saying here'. That song is so tightly constructed lyrically, that it carries a weighty and substantial message if you work through it sequentially, verse by verse. As in several other songs there is a definite juxtaposition of conflicting positions played out and progressed through verse by verse. Interestingly God (maker) features quite prominently here as well. The message from deep, almost in terms of logic as well as just narrative is that the character in the third verse is violating something based on an entirely different dynamic than those described in the previous verses (consider active subject and object of the action).
OK, sorry for the pomposity here guys, this is a heavy subject on a weighty body of writing..... Love you all tho!
"And I listen from both sides of the bed......? nothing. I'll do this one myself. Do I deserve to be? And if so, who answers? I'm through with screaming and echoes nobody hears.....
"Praying now to something that has never shown him anything.....sometimes I reach to myself dear god.....are you here Dear God? (SBE 2009)...light green to green, dark green, brown..every life is falling down, brown to black, it's coming back...eyes, no eyes, there's no difference...every life is looking in [see Sikhism, Taoism, Shintoism, Animism]....
"God what do you say? I wanna take a look on the other side.....a preternatural other plane, like a tear in all we know, my senses have gone!....ponders his maker ponders his will...the defection of the soul.....I will walk with my hands bound, face blood, shadow flag [see Gethsemene, Golgotha]....like Mohammed hits the truth...first he was stripped, then he was stabbed....[see Golgotha] A human being that was GTF.....slide on next to me I'm just a human being, practiced are my sins, never gonna let me win, ah ha, under everything just another human being [humanism? - plus the band's social stances which contain a consistent humanism],
"Never shook Satan's hand look see for yourself, you'd know if if I had that shit don't come off....I was bitten, must have been the devil......Triumphant are the angels if they can get their first.....
"I’ll say your prayers,I’ll take your side, I’ll find us a way to make light, I’ll dig your grave, we’ll dance & sing, who knows, could be one lost lifetime. Feel the air up above,... A pool of blue sky, fill the air up with love, black with starlight,...far from lights of a city
The elements they speak to me, a distant time, distant place; so what you giving?
"I can feel like I have a soul that has been saved I can see the light coming through the clouds in rays, feel the sky blanket you with gems & rhinestones, see the path cut by the moon for you to walk on,
For you to walk on"
OK, you get the picture!
t
ps, I lied - I did a bit of checking; couldn't stand the thought of the humilation
Send my credentials to the house of detention
Being an atheist myself, I would like to think that Pearl Jam shares my views but obviously that is incredibly selfish and a bit arrogant! I accept that not everyone has the same beliefs as me.
The band being bought up in a mainly christian nation where most are bought up with christian values and experience with the church may have some resonance with the way they write music.
At the end of the day a persons beliefs are very personal and not really anybody else's business. I don't really care whether the lads are atheists or born again christians I will always appreciate the way their lyrics speak to all human beings!
Question: Are you a religious studies professor?
Peace :geek:
I'm sorry I pissed you off with the length and style of my post. No, I'm not a professor of anything, just somebody who has been forced to confront some difficult issues in life, and who believes that in a forum based entirely around words, it is sometimes worth trying to get them right. If I'm honest (and I'm not trying to provoke you here), it probably took you longer to read that post than it took me to write it (it took me longer to read it back too).
I'm disappointed you thought I was solely spouting my own views though, because the reason I quoted so many specific phrases from the lyrics was to try and provide some substance to the argument. If I was writing some essay I would have probably put the quotes in amongst the related points of the argument.
OK, I know my long posts seem to cause outrage here, but it does upset me that talking at some length about religion (arguably one of the most difficult subjects we human beings will ever discuss amongst ourselves), and quoting a lot of Pearl Jam lyrics, in a Pearl Jam fan's forum is like red rag to a bull somehow.
If we were chatting about how many times we've heard the Fixer on the radio then I can see how a couple of quick lines about when we first heard it would make sense, but when someone brings up Pearl Jam's stance on religion, I just thought it merited a little more thought. I've always avoided posting on this topic before, despite seeing it come up over and over again......
Anyway, I'll shut up now for fear of writing another essay, but I guess the part of your post which I thought was factually incorrect was that I was just stating a baseless opinion. I thought I had at least tried to provide the grounds on which I based my subjective opinion, ie the words in the songs!
I won't say peace since I fear it may well end up stirring us both up further.
Sorry I irritated you I guess?
Send my credentials to the house of detention
It's difficult though, because when I first signed up here in 2000 I felt really really welcomed by people like hedonist and PJ mom who kind of used to rule the roost back then. I started off posting tentatively but they would encourage me and say stuff like 'tell us more about that......'. As a result I wrote more, felt valued and fitted in, and my writing was appreciated. It wouldn't be unusual back then for us to stay up half the night getting into some pretty thorough, lengthy and intense analysis of songs, politics, relationships, sociology whatever (which are after all some of the major themes of Pearl Jam's work). To be honest I think the level of debate and the expectation of this was far higher back then. I never used to get told off for being too long-winded or using big words!
Things change though, the forum has changed and I have changed. I probably need to alter my style. I think for the community that we were, Roskilde hit everyone very hard, and each in very very different ways; and we fractured over the following years, and when they relaunched the board a lot of people went their separate ways (also some major run-ins with the Mods and bannings I seem to remember).
As for me, I know my writing (here and elsewhere) can be terrible, totally miss the mark and make people cringe (it does me when I re-read it too!); I also know that I can hit the target spot on and write really well at times, and sustain this for long periods; and in the outside world when I do this people pay me proper money for it. So you can see that I'm not looking to you to validate my merits as a writer, I can get that from other external sources (who are often not nearly so hostile to analytic writing as some PJ fans appear to be nowadays!)
I guess that's it. I'll try to write shorter posts!
Send my credentials to the house of detention
I'm sorry if you felt attacked by what I said in my post. I believe in free speech and people’s right to believe what they want.
I don't however appreciate being insulted with condescending remarks like the use of 'big words' or your statement that you had proved your point with the lyrics you had quoted. Because of your beliefs you will read things into lyrics. I do the same (with opposing beliefs I can see many references to back up my thoughts that Eddie, at least, holds my same views).
I again appologise if you felt offended by what I posted.
I think from now on I will stay away from any thread to do with religion.
I truely wish Peace to all 10C members, even those who maybe view things in a different way to me.
It is too bad this post turned out this way. I believe this type of conversation, regardless of your own beliefs, is always better in person with a nice glass of wine or a beer. When conversations like this are face to face, body language and the tone of voice are often key factors to keeping them enjoyable, and not too serious.
I wish both of you peace.
Alain
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Tinkerbell, the big words bit was partly to do with other comments I've received here, not necessarily aimed at you. The 'religious studies professor' bit was quite hard for me to interpret though. In Britain we are raised on a diet of biting sarcasm, and that's how I heard it......
Well , don't they say never discuss politics or religion in public? Something like that.
I don't think I proved any great point really, but just that I tried to highlight the song lyrics from which I had formed my personal opinion.
Anyway, it's maybe all a bit too significant to me currently, so I probably shouldn't have got involved.
I'm sure since we all enjoy the band's music we probably do have a lot in common in our hearts and in our heads. I agree Alain, a few beers and a noisy run-through of Backspacer in the same room and I'm sure we'd be getting on fine.
Thanks both
t
Send my credentials to the house of detention
[tremors] I thought that was an interesting observation about the constant calling out towards something higher, bigger. I might not have gotten the full extent of what you meant, but I have myself noticed a lot of references to God in pearl jam lyrics, whether as a metaphor, a witty remark or a figure of speech. I will not and could not however, make an assumption as to their religious beliefs.
It is true we will all see what we want to see, and that's an accomplishment. How else can we understand anything than through our own experiences. It only shows a stubborn view, when someone actually gets offended by what another person says or believes. I mean, maybe we should not make assumptions and tread lightly, especially in such personal topics.
does this help?
In my opinion this video does and does not help the conversation of this post. Eddie's comment is, as far as I can make it out, "life is all we got as far as I know, you are going to prove something different there might be something else down the corner, no one has proven to me since so, I am just thinking life". This comment can be interpreted in many ways.
A atheist might take this as support that Eddie is saying there is nothing after life as far as he is concerned.
A person who believes in God might say that this video is vague, old and does not answer the question discussed in this forum.
In this video Eddie answers a completely different question - can you talk about the Rolling Stones and how they influenced you? The question he answers is not directly about beliefs and certainly not about religion.
The fact that this video is dated also decrease its relevance as people are allowed to change their mind over time, according to their life journey. Having children certainly has the potential to challenge someone's point of view about a millions different things. This was shot when he had short hair (as in Pearl Jam Live at the Garden 2003), before he had his first daughter in 2004.
I certainly would not put much value to what I said 5-10 years ago, and at times, not even a few minutes ago.
Cheers.
Alain
Montreal 20/06/03, Montreal 15/09/05, Ottawa 16/09/05. Montreal 1 (EV) 09/08/08; Albany 2 (EV) 09/06/09.
Toronto 21/08/09; Cleveland 9/05/10; Buffalo 10/05/10. Montreal 7/09/11; Toronto 11/9/11; Toronto 12/9/11; Ottawa 14/9/11.
London 16/07/13; Pittsburg 11/10/13; Buffalo 12/10/13. Moline (No Code) 17/10/14, St Paul 19/10/14, Milwaukee (Yield) 20/10/14.
Quebec City 5/5/2016, Ottawa 8/5/2016; Toronto (Binaural) 10/5/2016, Toronto 12/5/2016 (Completed Ten, finally got Oceans).
London 18/7/2018, London 19/7/2018 :(, Boston 2/9/2018.
Quebec City 1/9/2022; Ottawa 3/9/2022; Hamilton 6/9/2022, Toronto 8/9/2022.
Another thread was on the boards here a few months back where a guy ran into Eddie (more like stalked him), and they were talking for a bit. They began talking about their fathers, and Eddie looked up and said something to the effect, well now your dad and my dad are up there, looking down at us and smiling. Take it for what it's worth, but those are two examples I've seen where he at least considers the possibility of there being more to this life.
I heard Eddie doing an interview one time and he said something like "I'm just trying to make the best out of this life because as far as i know, that's all we got....." Something like that, definitely not word for word..... I think one line from the song Lightyears can shed some light-- "And wherever you've gone, and wherever we might go, it don't seem fair, you seemed to like it here....." He said it was about a friend dying and how much it hurt. I think that line is saying yah maybe you went to Heaven and you're completely fine up there but I wish you were still here. you know, just saying hey I don't know what's on the other side but it seemed like you enjoyed life so much you shoudl be able to keep going with it.....