How do bands choose to release singles? How Many?
So this is a general question about releasing singles. Why doesn't a band release 11 singles?
Now that is an extreme number, but my point is, why only 2?
I mean the goal is to sell a record. Perhaps Just Breathe, or Force of Nature would catch on? Or Amongst the Waves?
But if they only release The Fixer and probably Got Some, then we will never know?
Release the whole album and let stations play what they want. Easy/Slow rock will pick up and play a different song than a Harder Rock Station.
Is it a cost issue? (Seems now a days punching out CD's to ship to radio stations should be easy and cost effective?)
Any info about this process would be greatly appreciated.
Now that is an extreme number, but my point is, why only 2?
I mean the goal is to sell a record. Perhaps Just Breathe, or Force of Nature would catch on? Or Amongst the Waves?
But if they only release The Fixer and probably Got Some, then we will never know?
Release the whole album and let stations play what they want. Easy/Slow rock will pick up and play a different song than a Harder Rock Station.
Is it a cost issue? (Seems now a days punching out CD's to ship to radio stations should be easy and cost effective?)
Any info about this process would be greatly appreciated.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
There are so many aspects to cover from your question...most are too mundane to go in to...however...
Firstly, you cant just throw out 11 singles from an album...it just doesnt happen...in years gone past certainly more singles were being released from albums...the whole canvas for releasing any song now has changed...
Its also not just the band's decision of which singles to release...The radio stations choose which songs they play...Tv stations choose which song they play...you get your song put on a rotation...The Fixer is the perfect example...its the obvious choice from BS because its accessible...I Am Mine and WWS werent so accesible hense they got less radio play...that is down to the stations and their people in suits who choose the rotation...As stunning as Just Breathe is, it WILL NOT get airings on the stations that The Fixer gets...I know from my own personal and often gut wrenching experience that radio station want songs that are the lowest common denominator...they want easy, chorusy, uncomplicated songs...
Pearl Jam certainly dont put out singles to get a number 1 or to make money from them...it simply doesnt happen anymore...i actually think the UK is the only place that physically still put out CD singles...The single is purely a marketing tool to get the band back on the airwaves, set up recognition of a new album and then the album does this whole job for the tour...Most band money in this download era is made from touring...now obviously pearl jam have the boots etc but the bulk of earnings is from touring...from a personal point of view i really like this because it cuts the shit from the talented...if you cant do it live, youre fucked!!!!
Heres a question to you...how many people would you think would buy 11 singles?? Im talking about the general population? Now ask yourself, really how many EVEN BUY 1 single from an album....
when people say the industry is now in big trouble they arent lying..we need to reinvent new ways to get music out there. For smaller bands, up and coming bands it is a hard time...very hard to make money...again in an ironic way this cuts out the shit because they dont last very long!!
Im not sure how much I am answering your question here. Let me tell you about my latest single...
We released a new single last month...we made a $10,000 quality video...although we have better songs, we chose the 3 minute, chorusy "radio" song...our manager then takes this song to the radio stations and tv stations and pitches the package...because there is such a strong video, tv takes it straight away...although, we hold back the video until the single is getting good radio play....radio stations start by playing the song at night or specialist homegrown shows...you let the momentum build...people then start requesting your song, it gets moved from c rotation to b rotation, meaning better time slots, more plays....then you drop the video to tv...people start taking about the video, those from radio link it to the single, all of a sudden youre on A rotation on the rock and pop radio stations...when you hit B then A rotation, the radio stations that initially didnt want to play it so much, start moving it up their rotation...see what i mean its a vicious wee circle!!!
So what happens next is the tv shows pick up on it and we then go play the tv shows getting it more and more airplay...so now we start pitching the tour we are setting out on and the ball keeps rolling and building momentum....ALL THE WHILE WE STILL HAVENT OFFICIALLY RELEASED THE SINGLE...its only now we release it to Itunes, NO PHYSICAL CD....we have charted at #6 in the rock charts and #10 in overall nz artist charts...you dont just chart anymore from sales...you get points for radio and tv play, although not as many as actual sales...WE WONT ACTUALLY MAKE ANY PROFIT FROM THE SINGLE BUT ALL THE MOMENTUM HELPS SELL TICKETS FOR OUR TOUR, WHICH SELLS MERCH AND LEADS TO MORE GIGS.
Singles are purely a marketing tool...its a tough time to release them and i think it getting tougher...people just arent BUYING music like they used to...I absolutely love and agree with what ed vedder said on this...He said.."i pour my heart and soul in to every song...we put everything in to every record...yet people want it fro free...i bought eggs and coffee for breakfast and it cost me $9.50...Ive put the last few months of my life in to an album that will cost you $12 but you dont think its worth a little more than eggs and coffee..."
This really sums the industry and people new "download" mindset...
Ive shared some of my experiences...i hope it makes some sense!!
while i agree that Just Breathe won't necessarily play on the same stations (traditionally) as The Fixer, ie hard rock stations - I see it as very accessible on pop stations. it's pretty simple and just a beautiful song. my wife is not a fan of PJ at all, listens to top 40 crap, and she loves JB - that's a good barometer for me as to what the pop fans out there will like. i'm not saying it would be a #1 hit on pop radio, but it could get play there. it's gotten a lot of attention somehow - already in the top 100 singles on itunes. (or was)
Washington D.C. '04, London '05,Hamilton '05,Grand Rapids '06,
Cleveland '06, Detroit '06,Pittsburgh '06,Cincinnati '06,Chicago '07
NYC '08, NYC '08, Chicago '09, Chicago '09, ACL '09, Columbus 2010, Noblesville 2010, Cleveland 2010, Buffalo 2010.
But if we are talking about a Uncle Neil, or Bruce, or Dylan, or Tool, or Pearl jam, all bands who are notoriously strong willed in their desire to control their own music and art, then I think its the artist who chooses.
And within this second group is another group. Bands who create art to turn off fans. Dylan did so with Planet Waves and his Self Portrait album. And Pearl jam has done it for every album post Vitalogy, save of course Avocado and Backspacer. Ed has said the decision to choose Who You Are, as a single, was the fact that it was a bizaare song, and not typical of their previous sound, and he felt this song would cause alot of fans to jump ship.
Ultimately I think for most bands, singles revolve around, songs that are respresentative of the album as a whole, and are songs that seem to have that "it" factor, that unexplainable thing that moves songs to the top of the charts.
And I also think as the digital age continues, single are increasingly irrelevant. It used to be that singles were the way, via radio, that most people heard a bands new stuff. "Oh did you hear the new single by Dave Matthews Band on the radio?". Nowadays, as radio is increasingly irrelevent in its own right, I think its been shown that singles dont have as much power as they used to.
With leaks, and such, bands dont really have to rely on singles to hype a release. Most people, by the time an album is OFFICIALLY released, have heard a majority of the album already. So, the need for the radio station to play your songs every half hour is negated.
"most people" will never hear songs like just breathe unless they're played on pop radio.
"most people" will never hear songs like just breathe unless they're played on pop radio.
I know what you mean, and agree, but as I said, the radio to me, isnt a valid way to judge the popularity of an album or single anymore. Even the Billboard sales charts, including the one that names PJ as top selling of the week, is in a way, a big joke, because the number of sales ONLY includes legal downloads and actual physical cd sales. There are millions of people out there downloading illegally. And thats never factored into the soundscan sales figures.
For me, the popularity of music these days, is judged by blogs, and music oriented sites, and by the inclusion of the music on late night shows or Colbert and Stewart.
If a song is played 45 times during thisweek, in 2009, i dont think that means squat frankly. It just means the radio station itself loves it, or the artist paid the station to play it, or the record label paid money,
yeah, I completely disagree. Who are these people in 2009? In 1991, yes, people stuck by their radios hoping to hear that certain song they loved, or called the radio station and requested it. But do you honestly, know a huge number of folks who ONLY hear about music and new bands via the radio? Yes I know a few, but the majority of people I know, have it the other way around. They hear about new bands via word of mouth and via the internet, via the songs inclusion in shows like Greys Anatomy and The Hills and via inclusion in movie soundtracks. The radio in terms of influence is low.
Ultimately, if you are passionate about music, you will find a way to find it. I love music. My name is a reflection of that fact. And I dont listen to the radio. Havent for years. Havent relied on the radio in years to find out or hear my favorite songs. If I want to listen to such and such I just obtain the record, or dig it out of my collection. For most people if they want to hear music they just search their itunes playlist.
Top 40 music is irrelevant. I love hooks and pop music as much as the next person, but with all due respect to your wife, if you are relying on radio or MTV to show you who the next big band is, or what the new sound is, I think you are beyond help, and are out of touch with the reality of the music world as it exists today.
Bands that are huge right now, Animal Collective, Grizzly Bear, Bon Iver, Vampire Weekend, The XX and so on, yes they have singles, but I dont think people found out about them because some radio station played one of their songs. These bands, and the current dominant genre and scene in music today, indie rock, is in complete contradiction to your premise, that people wont hear different or new sounds if they dont listen to the radio.
I have heard and heard about all those bands. I didnt hear about them via a single. I think that says something
We as fans, and the bands themselves control things now.
Its changed. I remember as a kid, waiting breathlessly, to hear my favorite song. But again, who these days even listens to the radio? Even in the car, which seems to be THE place to listen to it, most people either pop in a cd, or hook up their iPod and whatnot.
I dont need Casey Kasem or Barry mcguire to tell me what to listen to, or to find whats new and hot. I will find it myself
you are obviously a schooled fan of music. "most people" including myself have never heard of most of those bands you mentioned. people still listen to music in their cars - the working world. radio still has an influence, albeit diminished. if a working person is tuned into the local fm pop station during the rush hour commute and hears a song on the radio, they are likely to buy it if they like it. it may be a generational thing. "most people" aren't avid fans/seekers of music like you are - they may not seek out all those bands you mention if they aren't exposed to them through radio or some passive source.
yeah, my point is, i'm not talking about somebody hearing their favorite band's single. i'm talking about getting people who don't give two shits about pearl jam exposed to a new song (like LAST KISS, for example). without radio play, that wouldn't have gone #1 like it did.
Keep it coming if someone has a different take.
I see your point. But your premise operates on an assumption that obviously was fact years ago, but does it still hold true now, in 2009?
Does radio have that much power anymore? By playing a song over and over again, a single by any band, can they turn a song into a hit? Do they have that power?
My feeling is that radio doesnt have that ability anymore. I think the things I am talking about are widely known. And I think "most people" as in casual music fans, people who dont obsess over it like I do, even the casual fan i think is impacted by this new world of music in the digital age.
I think to extend your ideas further, to me, to impact these "most people" that you talk about, the non music obssessives, a better way of judging the hotness and popularity of a record, would be through the means of its use and play during the variety of ways I mentioned, streams on myspace, hits on youtube, mentions on music blogs, and play on tv shows and movies.
My question to you is, if a song plays on the radio, does anyone hear it? To those "most people" you refer to, wouldnt music be mere background music? Something they can sing in the car while in a traffic jam, or whatnot. And is that really indicative of the popularity of music? A woman miming singing the song with her hairbrush in the car on the way to work, is that really popularity? Or mere bored behavior? What else is their to do, in a car, in a traffic jam, waiting to go to work, but sing along, even to the most mundane and boring crap?
If Pearl jam was smart, they would do the things I just laid out. They would do press with Pitchfork and Stereogum, despite the bad reviews. They would do more stuff with MySpace and YouTube, releasing more video stuff, they would liscence the music to Grey's Anatomy and the Hills. That would be the ONLY way they really could break out of this "cult band status" they have created. And its the ONLY way you are going to get people to hear Just Breathe and all that.
If you want Just Breathe to be huge, and for "most people" to hear it, I wouldnt waste time trying to figure out about singles and radio stations.
The world of music and the way it gets listened to and accessed has been altered. Radio stations aint a part of this world that i am speaking of.
1) I don't think it's accurate to say that "The Fixer" has received more airplay than "Worldwide Suicide." "Worldwide Suicide" spent multiple weeks at number one on Billboard's Modern Rock chart, an airplay-only tally. It also reached higher (#41) than "The Fixer" (#56) on the Hot 100, a chart that combines sales and airplay. (I don't know the airplay-only numbers for the two songs off the top of my head.) "Worldwide Suicide" was catchy and accessible. On a related note, it seems like the buzz around almost every album since "Yield" (with the exception of "Binaural") has been the same: "Pearl Jam finally gets back to its roots." I remember hearing that "Given To Fly" was a return to form for the band after the experimentation of "No Code." When "Riot Act" came out, a lot of people said that "I Am Mine" was the best thing Pearl Jam had done in years. Ditto for "Worldwide Suicide," which was a huge hit at rock radio. And now here we are again with "The Fixer." It's the same script every time. Pearl Jam hasn't gone anywhere for 18 years, yet every time they release a new album, the media narrative is "Pearl Jam's big comeback."
2) Radio stations generally do not determine what gets released as singles. Record labels do (often in consultation with the artists). The labels then work the songs to radio. Sometimes, different songs will be worked to different formats (for example, you could push "Got Some" to rock radio, "The Fixer" to CHR/Top 40 and "Just Breathe" to Triple A). With Pearl Jam taking a DIY approach to this album, they don't have the same support system in place to push additional tracks to radio, so it will be interesting to see what happens. In the rare instance, a song will organically become a hit on radio, and the groundswell of demand turns it into a single (i.e., "Last Kiss").
WWS certainly didnt get the mass and widespread play that the Fixer is getting...I mean more mainstream stations and channels are playing it...certainly in new zealand most people would never of heard of WWS but are getting slammed with The Fixer...Also if you were referring to my post, I didnt mean the Radio Stations choose the single...i mean they choose what to play on their stations...PJ may have the power to say "a" " b" or "c' is the single...the radio stations have the power to say thats ok, its not gonna be played on our station...Thats what i meant...The Fixer is more accessible than I am mine or WWS in that sense...Youre totally right in what you say about Last Kiss almost be willed to be a single...that doesnt happen much though...singles can be very hit or miss...a lot of the time its purely down to the timing of the single...for instance, i know a lot of singles and albums got held back because of Michael Jackson's death...his music swamped the airwaves, his albums topped all the charts so people held their song until that settled down...
The OP's question was about releasing 11 singles...got me thinking...somebody should try it!!!! I know the cure released singles every month on the 13th day leading up to the release of their 13th album...they were remixes of the album tracks so they didnt essentially release the whole album as singles...interesting to hear everyones thoughts here...nice thread..
Janet Jackson had 7 Hot 100 singles from her "Rhythm Nation 1814" album. Michael Jackson had 7 Hot 100 singles out of the 9 songs on "Thriller" (all 7 hit the top 10), and 7 from "Bad" (only one missed the top 10-- it hit #11-- and 5 hit #1). Bruce Springsteen had 7 Hot 100 singles from "Born In The U.S.A."-- all hit the top 10, but none hit #1.* Def Leppard had 7 Hot 100 singles from "Hysteria."
* Which reminds me of a great trivia question: the only #1 song written by Bruce Springsteen was performed by someone else. Manfred Mann's Earth Band hit the top of the chart with its cover of "Blinded By The Light."
Exactly... nobody has done this with singles in the download era...most of those albums you mentioned...the singles were released as 7 inch, 12 inch, 12inch LE, cassette and then cd...I loved those days of being excited about the Bsides...the new formats...those days are gone...OASIS really tapped in to it because their bsides were better than their album tracks and everyone wanted the cd singles...thats why singles really are no longer money makers..they are tools/stepping stones...ah i miss the old days!!!! ha ha
Until just a few years ago, a song was not eligible to chart on the Hot 100 unless it was commercially available as a single (e.g., 7-inch, CD-single, etc.)
The world of radio and records today is so radically different than it was prior to roughly 2000 that it's almost pointless to compare chart achievements then and now.
totally agreed...
http://songwriter101.com/forum/threads/10489_0_20_0_C/