ummmmm....i assume you have seen the video...right? it wasn't controversial because it had giant corporate logos flashing in the background while the band performed.
The content of the video is irrelevant to my point. I'm sure the controversy only helped business for those entities involved in its promotion.
Schindler's List made a lot of money for some very large corporations, too.
yes...but there is a difference...putting out quality music and selling a lot of records will make money...but it was about making music first!
making a video with controversial subject matter may stir up shit and get you noticed, but it wasn't about "getting noticed"...or promoting Sony.
Yeah, I miss the days when they stuck with the little guys, like Sony. I don't get how they could move from such a small, independent label to a giant megacorporation. Wait, isn't Sony a giant megacorporation? They make like half the electronics I own and release half my CD's... and isn't the new album being released on the band's own label and they're just letting Target carry it because nobody else was willing to let indie music stores sell it too? Shit, now I don't know what to think... I was so looking forward to a good corporate whore rant...
who says they are not with the little guy? You can buy the cd at an indie place if you want to.
plus wal mart is cut out of the deal altogether. how is that a negative?
in the end they are using a corporation for their own devices. That's vintage PJ.
tired of this ant hill being called a mountain.
EDIT: sorry soulsinging, I skimmed your post the first time around and didn't get the sarcasm. well done!
I recall the press conference to annonce the South American tour a few years ago. Pearl Jam stood in front of an American flag in which each of the 50 stars was replaced with a corporate logo. I need to find a photo of this to ascertain if the Targer corporate logo was included.
It is interesting that just a few years ago they were lambasting the corporate control of America by affixing that flag to the wall behind them and now they have a commercial with a BIG RED TARGET logo flashing behind them in full support of such control.
Seems hypocritical to me, sorry if others don't see it but it is fairly transparent if you have followed the history of the band.
Stop following with your eyes closed....
the only one following with eyes & ears closed is you dude
Fans who have been there from the beginning are the ones who are most annoyed.
Meh, I have been around since the beginning, and once I learned the details of the deal, I couldn't be happier for them about it.
Same here, aNiMaL.
Like many, I was taken aback when I first learned the news - that secret show with Target. It didn't sit well with me.
Then I learned the details, like you, and it made sense to me....although I do admit that video is still a bit uncomfortable with me, but if that is the deal they made with Target in addition to using their retailer as an additional distribution (they didn't abandon their love for indies record stores and still use them to sell their music). I like that they were still concerned about the process of making this video – hiring and feeding unemployed people who participated the making of video.
Like Kat pointed out and I do agree with her... that it is called activism when one makes changes with a corporation. PJ with Target would have a lot of donations towards a cause - which is feeding Americans, a human basic need that PJ strongly believes in. They’ve been screaming for years about corporations not caring about little people…and now they’re doing something about it by working with one.
My husband, on the other hand, took much longer into dealing with this new change w/ the band - going with a corporation.
He does not read the internet or keeps up with "every" details like I do... and he was very uncomfortable with the idea.
His argument? But he's a traditionalist! He cares about the quality of his music, the whole process of ensuring the sound quality is the best. Same with artwork, etc... why go with the mainstream style? Ipods??? Digital downloads???
I said yes...that hasn't changed. He's still a traditionalist, still demanding that his music is made on vinyls and supporting the "little" people (moms and pops indie records). I explained about the heavy piracy of stealing music online, especially with younger generations. I pointed out our oldest as an example. He doesn’t care about having a CD on his hands, but on his iPod.
He is a slow bloomer...after four years, he caved in iPod recently. He really likes it. He just started looking a little bit at pearljam.com and while he’s overwhelmed, he thought it was done in an excellent taste – what they do offline also demonstrates online.
Eddie did say that fans only had five minutes to absorb all this in while he and others had MONTHS to think about this seriously. He understands.
We’ve trusted the band for 18 years... why stop now?
JA: Why do I get the Ticketmaster question?
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
And when someone chooses to work within the system and gets the corporation to make changes in the way they do things, what do we call that? I call it activism.
Admin
You are the shit, Kat. I love how you leave nuggets of wisdom randomly on the board.
Fans who have been there from the beginning are the ones who are most annoyed.
I would have to respectfully disagree with that one. You can't generalize like that. I've been a fan since the beginning, and this doesn't bother me in the least. No, I don't defend everything they do just because they are Pearl Jam.
The band is NOT promoting Target. They are letting Target promote their album. Huge difference.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I think the issue some fans have is that the band would always stay clear of any affiliation with the major corp's. Ed would always rip them outwardly, ie Clear Channel, Microsoft. It has been this way from the very beginning....If they would have started out making commercials & video games it would be a non-issue.
This is it. Now I wouldn't have a problem with Target ever, if PJ didn't stand so forthright like they did against corporate America. But they chose to do so. And then they decided to do a 180. To the public - the public that knew PJ for their activism against corporate America - this looks like they "sold out". Plain and simple. I do agree that working within a corp is the only way to change the way things are run, rather than continue to dog it down. THAT's how you bring about change; working from within to create it.
But maybe PJ could have cleared that up with its before doing the dirty. Then, maybe there wouldn't be this kind of hysteria. There are ways to keep your activist spirit without making things look like you're on the bad guys' side. It's called communication.
I think the issue some fans have is that the band would always stay clear of any affiliation with the major corp's. Ed would always rip them outwardly, ie Clear Channel, Microsoft. It has been this way from the very beginning....If they would have started out making commercials & video games it would be a non-issue.
This is it. Now I wouldn't have a problem with Target ever, if PJ didn't stand so forthright like they did against corporate America. But they chose to do so. And then they decided to do a 180. To the public - the public that knew PJ for their activism against corporate America - this looks like they "sold out". Plain and simple.
So if it looks like they sold-out to the public, shouldn't it look like they sold-out to us too? Or did it just happen so slowly over the last few years that none of us noticed it?
This is it. Now I wouldn't have a problem with Target ever, if PJ didn't stand so forthright like they did against corporate America. But they chose to do so. And then they decided to do a 180. To the public - the public that knew PJ for their activism against corporate America - this looks like they "sold out". Plain and simple. I do agree that working within a corp is the only way to change the way things are run, rather than continue to dog it down. THAT's how you bring about change; working from within to create it.
But maybe PJ could have cleared that up with its before doing the dirty. Then, maybe there wouldn't be this kind of hysteria. There are ways to keep your activist spirit without making things look like you're on the bad guys' side. It's called communication.
it's kinda hard not to go with the man when people are stealing your art from torrent sites. honestly whats the big if it's sony or verzion or target it's all the same shit. target was the only corporate chain that would let pj stock the cd's and vinyl in indie stores and on the goods section. people would be bitching if that didn't happen. no matter what this band does people will always bitch and complain. i can't wait till the day this band retires and this board is a ghost town. kat shoulda locked this thread after the first post. the OP has done nothing but troll this board since joining in july.
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
This is it. Now I wouldn't have a problem with Target ever, if PJ didn't stand so forthright like they did against corporate America. But they chose to do so. And then they decided to do a 180. To the public - the public that knew PJ for their activism against corporate America - this looks like they "sold out". Plain and simple. I do agree that working within a corp is the only way to change the way things are run, rather than continue to dog it down. THAT's how you bring about change; working from within to create it.
But maybe PJ could have cleared that up with its before doing the dirty. Then, maybe there wouldn't be this kind of hysteria. There are ways to keep your activist spirit without making things look like you're on the bad guys' side. It's called communication.
it's kinda hard not to go with the man when people are stealing your art from torrent sites. honestly whats the big if it's sony or verzion or target it's all the same shit. target was the only corporate chain that would let pj stock the cd's and vinyl in indie stores and on the goods section. people would be bitching if that didn't happen. no matter what this band does people will always bitch and complain. i can't wait till the day this band retires and this board is a ghost town. kat shoulda locked this thread after the first post. the OP has done nothing but troll this board since joining in july.
Free speech, Mets Fan. And I'm not arguing with you. Peace out.
This is it. Now I wouldn't have a problem with Target ever, if PJ didn't stand so forthright like they did against corporate America. But they chose to do so. And then they decided to do a 180. To the public - the public that knew PJ for their activism against corporate America - this looks like they "sold out". Plain and simple. I do agree that working within a corp is the only way to change the way things are run, rather than continue to dog it down. THAT's how you bring about change; working from within to create it.
But maybe PJ could have cleared that up with its before doing the dirty. Then, maybe there wouldn't be this kind of hysteria. There are ways to keep your activist spirit without making things look like you're on the bad guys' side. It's called communication.
it's kinda hard not to go with the man when people are stealing your art from torrent sites. honestly whats the big if it's sony or verzion or target it's all the same shit. target was the only corporate chain that would let pj stock the cd's and vinyl in indie stores and on the goods section. people would be bitching if that didn't happen. no matter what this band does people will always bitch and complain. i can't wait till the day this band retires and this board is a ghost town. kat shoulda locked this thread after the first post. the OP has done nothing but troll this board since joining in july.
Free speech, Mets Fan. And I'm not arguing with you. Peace out.
yes i know i jenwah and we aren't arguing. it's metsfan NOT Mets fan get it right jen wah
PEACE
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Just by signing with Epic in 1990 or 1991 when they started out means they were involved in some way with a corporation. You can't expect Pearl Jam to be this cool anti-everything band and get music to us. Maybe they had to "sell out" a bit to make sure they're music got distributed to us. I can care less that I see Pearl Jam banners at Target. It's kind of cool, to be honest. You can work along side with a major corporation, just as long as the corporation is cool for you.
When they were a young band in 1993-1996, it was their thing to sing out against Ticketmaster, MTV, being overexposed. I think doing that 13-16 years ago gave them the right to work with those channels today. I'm sure they didn't have families to think of back in the early days.
yes...but there is a difference...putting out quality music and selling a lot of records will make money...but it was about making music first!
making a video with controversial subject matter may stir up shit and get you noticed, but it wasn't about "getting noticed"...or promoting Sony.
just out of curiousity, how is target going to tell people that the album is available without a commercial?
it's a molehill, not a mountain btw.
I think all the world is supposed to instinctively know to come to pearljam.com to check if there's a new album about to come out. Of course, if that were true, they wouldn't even need Target in the first place.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Beavis: All my friends are brown and red? What does that mean?
Butthead: It means that his friends are like turds and that they like suck.
Beavis: Heh heh. Oh yeah. Yeah! Get those spoons out of my face before I shove them up your butt!
Butthead: Huh huh.
I think all the world is supposed to instinctively know to come to pearljam.com to check if there's a new album about to come out. Of course, if that were true, they wouldn't even need Target in the first place.
Comments
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=109831&p=2502788#p2502788
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
yes...but there is a difference...putting out quality music and selling a lot of records will make money...but it was about making music first!
making a video with controversial subject matter may stir up shit and get you noticed, but it wasn't about "getting noticed"...or promoting Sony.
who says they are not with the little guy? You can buy the cd at an indie place if you want to.
plus wal mart is cut out of the deal altogether. how is that a negative?
in the end they are using a corporation for their own devices. That's vintage PJ.
tired of this ant hill being called a mountain.
EDIT: sorry soulsinging, I skimmed your post the first time around and didn't get the sarcasm. well done!
the only one following with eyes & ears closed is you dude
Same here, aNiMaL.
Like many, I was taken aback when I first learned the news - that secret show with Target. It didn't sit well with me.
Then I learned the details, like you, and it made sense to me....although I do admit that video is still a bit uncomfortable with me, but if that is the deal they made with Target in addition to using their retailer as an additional distribution (they didn't abandon their love for indies record stores and still use them to sell their music). I like that they were still concerned about the process of making this video – hiring and feeding unemployed people who participated the making of video.
Like Kat pointed out and I do agree with her... that it is called activism when one makes changes with a corporation. PJ with Target would have a lot of donations towards a cause - which is feeding Americans, a human basic need that PJ strongly believes in. They’ve been screaming for years about corporations not caring about little people…and now they’re doing something about it by working with one.
My husband, on the other hand, took much longer into dealing with this new change w/ the band - going with a corporation.
He does not read the internet or keeps up with "every" details like I do... and he was very uncomfortable with the idea.
His argument? But he's a traditionalist! He cares about the quality of his music, the whole process of ensuring the sound quality is the best. Same with artwork, etc... why go with the mainstream style? Ipods??? Digital downloads???
I said yes...that hasn't changed. He's still a traditionalist, still demanding that his music is made on vinyls and supporting the "little" people (moms and pops indie records). I explained about the heavy piracy of stealing music online, especially with younger generations. I pointed out our oldest as an example. He doesn’t care about having a CD on his hands, but on his iPod.
He is a slow bloomer...after four years, he caved in iPod recently. He really likes it. He just started looking a little bit at pearljam.com and while he’s overwhelmed, he thought it was done in an excellent taste – what they do offline also demonstrates online.
Eddie did say that fans only had five minutes to absorb all this in while he and others had MONTHS to think about this seriously. He understands.
We’ve trusted the band for 18 years... why stop now?
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
You are the shit, Kat. I love how you leave nuggets of wisdom randomly on the board.
Shouldn't you be waiting under a bridge to eat a billy goat or something?
I would have to respectfully disagree with that one. You can't generalize like that. I've been a fan since the beginning, and this doesn't bother me in the least. No, I don't defend everything they do just because they are Pearl Jam.
The band is NOT promoting Target. They are letting Target promote their album. Huge difference.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
This is it. Now I wouldn't have a problem with Target ever, if PJ didn't stand so forthright like they did against corporate America. But they chose to do so. And then they decided to do a 180. To the public - the public that knew PJ for their activism against corporate America - this looks like they "sold out". Plain and simple. I do agree that working within a corp is the only way to change the way things are run, rather than continue to dog it down. THAT's how you bring about change; working from within to create it.
But maybe PJ could have cleared that up with its before doing the dirty. Then, maybe there wouldn't be this kind of hysteria. There are ways to keep your activist spirit without making things look like you're on the bad guys' side. It's called communication.
So if it looks like they sold-out to the public, shouldn't it look like they sold-out to us too? Or did it just happen so slowly over the last few years that none of us noticed it?
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Free speech, Mets Fan. And I'm not arguing with you. Peace out.
PEACE
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
When they were a young band in 1993-1996, it was their thing to sing out against Ticketmaster, MTV, being overexposed. I think doing that 13-16 years ago gave them the right to work with those channels today. I'm sure they didn't have families to think of back in the early days.
just out of curiousity, how is target going to tell people that the album is available without a commercial?
it's a molehill, not a mountain btw.
I think all the world is supposed to instinctively know to come to pearljam.com to check if there's a new album about to come out. Of course, if that were true, they wouldn't even need Target in the first place.
for the least they could possibly do
+1!!!!!!!!
Butthead: It means that his friends are like turds and that they like suck.
Beavis: Heh heh. Oh yeah. Yeah! Get those spoons out of my face before I shove them up your butt!
Butthead: Huh huh.
LOL
Pearl jam is NOT radiohead....
thank god.
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! AWESOME!
The whole world will be different soon the whole world will be RELIEVED
#resistgezi #resistturkey #resisttaksim #direnturkiye #direngezi
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All that I once held as true
I stand alone without beliefs
The only truth I know is you.