Please help me defend.....

Bonesbowers

I am debating with a friend who thinks that Pearl Jam sold out by doing target commercials. How do I defend their decision to be in a target commercial when they originally were the band that didn't want to make videos at all? Any help would be great

Backspacer_Backer

tell him "sell outs? yeah, they sell out every live show they play"

who gives a shit? "sell out" is the most tired, overused criticism known to man. tell him he's right - they "sold out" by walking away from Sony, a huge multi-national corporation much larger than Target. and then tell him to go fuck himself.

yield2me

people change, simple as that

Brisk.

csickels wrote:

tell him "sell outs? yeah, they sell out every live show they play"

who gives a shit? "sell out" is the most tired, overused criticism known to man. tell him he's right - they "sold out" by walking away from Sony, a huge multi-national corporation much larger than Target. and then tell him to go fuck himself.

Not to mention breaking curfews most nights by playing 2 hours 20.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

tell him selling out would be doing a Target commercial. Target is paying Pearl Jam to do a Backspacer commercial, selling their own product. And they signed a distribution deal so PJ could still sell the album through 10C and indie stores. What other bands have done that? NONE.

The music industry business model is dead as we know it. If you want to go independent (no record label), and if you have no distribution deal, you don't sell records and no one (except us nuts) is lucky enough to hear their music. And that's the bottom line. This is the way of the future of the industry (for pre-established bands, anyway).

And tell him they have always done commercials. You used to see promotional vids on TV when the new album was coming out. This time PJ themselves just got in on the action. They are controlling everything now, which is why they are doing what they are doing.

blindmule

Ummmmmm... Good Luck with that one.

Ya know, sold out - bought in, it seems fairly irrelevant in today's business world. I always say, as long as a band puts out a good album (as opposed to say something so far off base which is an obvious departure for $$$ sake) and don't sell their music to commercials promoting something they clearly do not believe in - I kind of have to brush it off.

Sure I hate hearing songs I LOVE and have deep meaning to me in a Store or car commercial, but if it's not them someone else will do it - and I suppose it's better to have good music on TV than bad music.

It is after all, their business and livelihood - we probably have all (and probably would all) sell pieces of ourself to make a living - hell if I wrote a song I would sell it to WalMart for a million bucks and I HATE WalMart!


...You say it's a living, we all gotta eat...

yield2me

seriously what band wouldn't want Target to exclusively push their album?

Flagg

Bonesbowers wrote:

I am debating with a friend who thinks that Pearl Jam sold out by doing target commercials. How do I defend their decision to be in a target commercial when they originally were the band that didn't want to make videos at all? Any help would be great

#1 - it isn't a Target commercial like "Pearl Jam says go buy stuff at Target", it is a commercial for their new album being sold at Target.

#2 - You can buy it at other stores and on iTunes. Target was the only big retailer to allow this.

#3 - Releasing records in 2009 is different than it was in 1993. Now, if you want to see your record, you have to have Target, Wal-Mart, Best Buy, etc. involved. There are no more CD/Record stores and the big box retailers know it. Target is basically taking the place of the distribution company in this case.

DewieCox

Brisk. wrote:

csickels wrote:

tell him "sell outs? yeah, they sell out every live show they play"

who gives a shit? "sell out" is the most tired, overused criticism known to man. tell him he's right - they "sold out" by walking away from Sony, a huge multi-national corporation much larger than Target. and then tell him to go fuck himself.

Not to mention breaking curfews most nights by playing 2 hours 20.

No they don't

yield2me

I'd also mention the fact that PJ is on track to have a #1 record (billboard top 200) again for the first time since No Code. If making that happen requires a target commercial...well small price to pay.

Backspacer_Backer

honestly, who the fuck cares? some of you are so protective of PJ's "cred" that you look silly. do you like their music? if the answer is yes, why do you give two shits what anybody else thinks? we've all been hearing "pearl jam, they're still around?" since like 1996, so now that they're doing some stuff to get exposure, I say GREAT! the more people who hear this band, the better off the world will be.

HeavyHands

As long as they're not playing Klan rallies or drowning puppies I could care less what anyone says about them. Especially a casual observer of their actions.

I just like their music.

Get_Right

times have changed
500,000 people wont pay for this record but will have in their ipod-if those people still had to pay for the music, id bet you would not see any commercials or retail tie-ins

bands need to do what they can to get paid for their work in the pirate age
but hey its a commercial for their record, its not like its a commercial for the gap

davidtrios

Tell him that most mainstream musicians sell their albums through retailers like Best Buy, Walmart, etc. Pearl Jam just happened to sign an deal with one...Target. So what? They do what they want!

JonnyPistachio

little do people know, but Target has a tiny secret room in the back with Japanese Porn, so they cant be all that bad.

decides2dream

HeavyHands wrote:

As long as they're not playing Klan rallies or drowning puppies I could care less what anyone says about them. Especially a casual observer of their actions.

I just like their music.

this made me laugh.
quite a broad criteria.


i couldn't care less either, especially as you say, for the casual observer. someone truly interested in an indepth discussion, not just to rank on my fave band.....sure, i'd get involved in that discussion. however, most people don't give a shit, so yea...i don't waste my time. who cares?

Backspacer_Backer

JonnyPistachio wrote:

little do people know, but Target has a tiny secret room in the back with Japanese Porn, so they cant be all that bad.

way to blow our cover dude.

theanswersarefatal

yeah one of my friends claims the same thing: PJ "sold out" due to their exclusive deal, so i told him that the only thing pearl jam sells out is their shows.

so speaking about shows, he went on to say that pearl jam sold out to ticketmaster by forgetting their fight against them. i said "hey at least they tried...where were all the other bands?" of course, i get no answer to that question.

i pointed him to this official message board and he said "wow i was surprised to see what PEARL JAM fans had to say about this"...obviously being sarcastic, because we're all very supportive of the band's choices. my reply was "what the fans think is all that matters".

overall some people are just haters, especially the ones that can't understand why a band they don't like is achieving so much success. they also don't want to acknowledge a band's talent, regardless of whether they're fans, because their narrowmindedness doesn't allow them to recognize anything beyond the realm of their personal opinion.

whatever, they don't live and breathe pearl jam, so obviously they're musically malnourished.

dpphoto

Johnny Sitar wrote:

tell him selling out would be doing a Target commercial. Target is paying Pearl Jam to do a Backspacer commercial, selling their own product. And they signed a distribution deal so PJ could still sell the album through 10C and indie stores. What other bands have done that? NONE.

The music industry business model is dead as we know it. If you want to go independent (no record label), and if you have no distribution deal, you don't sell records and no one (except us nuts) is lucky enough to hear their music. And that's the bottom line. This is the way of the future of the industry (for pre-established bands, anyway).

And tell him they have always done commercials. You used to see promotional vids on TV when the new album was coming out. This time PJ themselves just got in on the action. They are controlling everything now, which is why they are doing what they are doing.

Couldnt have said it better myself. It's all about making a model change. And obviously these guys are pretty smart businessmen or they are taking very good advice because it appears this change is working well. I like what they are doing.

Snoopy Died For Our Sins

having children changes everything......not to be cliched, but it's true...my entire future has now shifted from what I want to what I want to be able to provide for my children's futures...it's really that simple..you look at these innocents and want to give them the best you can.....all the things you didn't have for yourself...it's evolution, baby........all the guys are dads except Jeff, so there ya go..........

decides2dream

kenobi77 wrote:

yeah one of my friends claims the same thing: PJ "sold out" due to their exclusive deal, so i told him that the only thing pearl jam sells out is their shows.

so speaking about shows, he went on to say that pearl jam sold out to ticketmaster by forgetting their fight against them. i said "hey at least they tried...where were all the other bands?" of course, i get no answer to that question.

i pointed him to this official message board and he said "wow i was surprised to see what PEARL JAM fans had to say about this"...obviously being sarcastic, because we're all very supportive of the band's choices. my reply was "what the fans think is all that matters".

overall some people are just haters, especially the ones that can't understand why a band they don't like is achieving so much success. they also don't want to acknowledge a band's talent, regardless of whether they're fans, because their narrowmindedness doesn't allow them to recognize anything beyond the realm of their personal opinion.
whatever, they don't live and breathe pearl jam, so obviously they're musically malnourished.

i overall agree with your post...just pointing out, the part i bolded...a LOT of pj fans do that, regularly, right here.....about bands other than pj. it indeed goes both ways. i cannot stand a lot of acts/bands, don't 'understand' their popularity, but i do not feel the need to belittle them, b/c they DO have fans who LOVE them, as i love pj....and obviously, they do fulfill some musical desires of others.

Jeanwah

Bonesbowers wrote:

I am debating with a friend who thinks that Pearl Jam sold out by doing target commercials. How do I defend their decision to be in a target commercial when they originally were the band that didn't want to make videos at all? Any help would be great

They did sell out, though. But...in the end, we're all hypocrites.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

csickels wrote:

honestly, who the fuck cares? quote]

well, judging by the fact alone that you are posting in this thread, I'm guessing you do.

decides2dream

Jeanwah wrote:

Bonesbowers wrote:

I am debating with a friend who thinks that Pearl Jam sold out by doing target commercials. How do I defend their decision to be in a target commercial when they originally were the band that didn't want to make videos at all? Any help would be great

They did sell out, though. But...in the end, we're all hypocrites.

i disagree, but whatever. also, i am not a hypocrite. well i may be, but certainly not over my love/support for pearl jam. then again, i never put them on a pedestal as many of you apparently had in the past, and while i admired, and still admire...the things they have tried, the battles they fought....i still don't see em as sellouts, hypocrites, none of the above. people change and grow, ideals shift, does not make one a sellout nor a hypocrite necessarily......just, changed. btw - i am not trying to start an arguement/debate, merely pointing out what one may deem as 'sellout' another may not, it's not hard fact.

Backspacer_Backer

Johnny Sitar wrote:

csickels wrote:

honestly, who the fuck cares? quote]

well, judging by the fact alone that you are posting in this thread, I'm guessing you do.

nope. i care only in the sense that i think anybody who calls any artist a "sell out" is a fucking moron. if you create art, you should want people to see or hear it, no? with the music biz being what it is today, bands have to be a little more creative than 15 yrs ago.

example - a large majority of new found fans of The Who probably discovered their greatness through CSI or the plethora of tv ads they did. :0 Those are typical "sell out" acts. Thank God The Who did that so that a whole new demographic and generation of music fans didn't miss out on their art.

i've loved PJ since the early 90's, but it got pretty annoying that they continually sabotaged their own careers in an effort to "not sell out".

MAS

Pearl Jam made it a point from the beginning not to associate with large corporations....for whatever reason ($) they decided to go in a different direction, Target, RockBand video game etc...People are going to notice the 180 degree turn. It shouldn't matter but it kinda does for some fans, only because its never been that way before, now they're playing ball.

dimitrispearljam

Brisk. wrote:

csickels wrote:

tell him "sell outs? yeah, they sell out every live show they play"

who gives a shit? "sell out" is the most tired, overused criticism known to man. tell him he's right - they "sold out" by walking away from Sony, a huge multi-national corporation much larger than Target. and then tell him to go fuck himself.

Not to mention breaking curfews most nights by playing 2 hours 20.

yep...and they rock the fuckin place every night with different set-list every time

dimitrispearljam

the only sell out it matters is our love to this band!!!!

rebornFixer

Ask your friend if they ever watch TV, buy food from a store (as opposed to eating only wild-crafted produce or freshly killed wild meat), or hold down jobs. If they say yes, tell them that they too participate in American corporate culture and that they might want to STFU.

mangia1976

csickels wrote:

tell him "sell outs? yeah, they sell out every live show they play"

who gives a shit? "sell out" is the most tired, overused criticism known to man. tell him he's right - they "sold out" by walking away from Sony, a huge multi-national corporation much larger than Target. and then tell him to go fuck himself.

well said!!! that's funny shit..