Elton and Lily take stand against filesharing

musicismylife78

keeponrockin wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

I find it sort of interesting how some of you are ganging up on me. The millions of others who download arent on this board, but I am, therefore, some of you feel you can put me through the ringer and make me sound like I am a bad person. My whole point is, I dont think the fines for filesharing are accurate and accetable. I have given the example, of a mother of 4 getting a 1.6 million dollar fine, and no one responded. Whats an acceptable punishment and fine? Cause I sure as hell dont think 1.6 million is acceptable. And also filesharing in the big picture, is low low, or SHOULD be low low on the priorities list of police and law enforcement. We have bigger fish to fry than fining Suzy or Johnny Whats Their Name, millions because they downloaded the new Neil Young CD.

I also think we all operate on our own moral and ethical views. Almost everyone is against murder and rape, and for good reason. But what about jaywalking. Or crossing the street when the walk sign isnt white yet? How about going as I said before, its midnight, its a highway, and their are very few cars around, and you put on the gas and go a 5 mph above the speed limit. All of those are illegal, and I think if most of you were honest, we all have done. Maybe not habitually, but once in awhile. How about its 1am, deserted road, no cars around, and you make a turn and you dont put on your blinker? How many of you have done that? Again this is illegal stuff, but most people have done it, so its no big deal to most people.

All I am saying, is that the penalty for downloading is poppycock. And I am also saying that its silly to waste time on this message board berating me for being no better than a common thief, because people are gonna continue downloading.

Its such a waste of time for all the antidownloaders to even harp on it. By telling people, "Dont download", thats not gonna stop anything. Lars Ulrich tried to stop fans, he was unsucessful. Orrin hatch and others have suggested major jail terms for downloaders...downloading continues. Massive fines and British government scare tactics....and downloading continues.

Its such a silly fight to even have. If you dont like downloading...dont. Simple.

To the Mothers, tough shit. They knew what they were doing was illegal, and if they get caught, they should face the consequences. If I get caught jay walking, I'll man up and face the consequences.

Musicismylife, direct question. IF the artist got all $20 from the CD, and I mean every cent, would you go buy all the music you've stolen?

yes.

musicismylife78

keeponrockin wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

I find it sort of interesting how some of you are ganging up on me. The millions of others who download arent on this board, but I am, therefore, some of you feel you can put me through the ringer and make me sound like I am a bad person. My whole point is, I dont think the fines for filesharing are accurate and accetable. I have given the example, of a mother of 4 getting a 1.6 million dollar fine, and no one responded. Whats an acceptable punishment and fine? Cause I sure as hell dont think 1.6 million is acceptable. And also filesharing in the big picture, is low low, or SHOULD be low low on the priorities list of police and law enforcement. We have bigger fish to fry than fining Suzy or Johnny Whats Their Name, millions because they downloaded the new Neil Young CD.

I also think we all operate on our own moral and ethical views. Almost everyone is against murder and rape, and for good reason. But what about jaywalking. Or crossing the street when the walk sign isnt white yet? How about going as I said before, its midnight, its a highway, and their are very few cars around, and you put on the gas and go a 5 mph above the speed limit. All of those are illegal, and I think if most of you were honest, we all have done. Maybe not habitually, but once in awhile. How about its 1am, deserted road, no cars around, and you make a turn and you dont put on your blinker? How many of you have done that? Again this is illegal stuff, but most people have done it, so its no big deal to most people.

All I am saying, is that the penalty for downloading is poppycock. And I am also saying that its silly to waste time on this message board berating me for being no better than a common thief, because people are gonna continue downloading.

Its such a waste of time for all the antidownloaders to even harp on it. By telling people, "Dont download", thats not gonna stop anything. Lars Ulrich tried to stop fans, he was unsucessful. Orrin hatch and others have suggested major jail terms for downloaders...downloading continues. Massive fines and British government scare tactics....and downloading continues.

Its such a silly fight to even have. If you dont like downloading...dont. Simple.

To the Mothers, tough shit. They knew what they were doing was illegal, and if they get caught, they should face the consequences. If I get caught jay walking, I'll man up and face the consequences.

Musicismylife, direct question. IF the artist got all $20 from the CD, and I mean every cent, would you go buy all the music you've stolen?

I live in a world where you should get the punishment that fits the crime. Downloading 22 songs doesnt equal 1.6 million in damages no matter how you cut it. To put it another way, 22 songs is roughly 2 cd's worth of songs. 12 on one cd, 12 on the other. At most thats 40 bucks worth of product. How is 1.6 million an acceptable punishment.

And the lady, the mother specifically said she couldnt afford the 1.6 million. So why did they even go ahead with such a ludicrous sum of money?

musicismylife78

punishments should fit crimes. If you steal 2 candy bars, I think the punishment should be lighter than if you steal 2 cars, or steal 20,000 dollars from a bank.

I dont think every criminal should be given the same sentence. Murder and Rape are alot different than stealing a car, so I obviously think the rapist and murderer should get harsher sentences

JOEJOEJOE

musicismylife78 wrote:

with any band its all about getting as many people to hear your music as possible. Thats the goal of every single band in history, except for maybe Fugazi.

But the point is, buying a cd from a band isn't going to alter that one way or another.

I think its beyond cool as well, that the current downloading era, has forced bands to try new things in terms of releasing music.

I have said before, I have an aquaintance I went to college with, he started playing music just for fun in his dorm. Anyways, his music has really taken off, he is in a band, they are doing well, and on his website he has all 3 of his albums for free. And every release gig he has played for those 3, he has given the cd's out for free.

That to me, is pretty smart thinking. It recognizes the current paradigm in music, and it plays off it.

Realistically, I dont think they are on a label at the moment, but what do they lose by doing that, giving the stuff out for free? They are getting the music in the hands of people reguardless of if its free or not.

How is it smart thinking? Will they ever be able to actually make a living off their music? "Getting music into the hands of the people" may sound noble, but eventually, the band may want to get some $$ into their hands.

musicismylife78

keeponrockin wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

I find it sort of interesting how some of you are ganging up on me. The millions of others who download arent on this board, but I am, therefore, some of you feel you can put me through the ringer and make me sound like I am a bad person. My whole point is, I dont think the fines for filesharing are accurate and accetable. I have given the example, of a mother of 4 getting a 1.6 million dollar fine, and no one responded. Whats an acceptable punishment and fine? Cause I sure as hell dont think 1.6 million is acceptable. And also filesharing in the big picture, is low low, or SHOULD be low low on the priorities list of police and law enforcement. We have bigger fish to fry than fining Suzy or Johnny Whats Their Name, millions because they downloaded the new Neil Young CD.

I also think we all operate on our own moral and ethical views. Almost everyone is against murder and rape, and for good reason. But what about jaywalking. Or crossing the street when the walk sign isnt white yet? How about going as I said before, its midnight, its a highway, and their are very few cars around, and you put on the gas and go a 5 mph above the speed limit. All of those are illegal, and I think if most of you were honest, we all have done. Maybe not habitually, but once in awhile. How about its 1am, deserted road, no cars around, and you make a turn and you dont put on your blinker? How many of you have done that? Again this is illegal stuff, but most people have done it, so its no big deal to most people.

All I am saying, is that the penalty for downloading is poppycock. And I am also saying that its silly to waste time on this message board berating me for being no better than a common thief, because people are gonna continue downloading.

Its such a waste of time for all the antidownloaders to even harp on it. By telling people, "Dont download", thats not gonna stop anything. Lars Ulrich tried to stop fans, he was unsucessful. Orrin hatch and others have suggested major jail terms for downloaders...downloading continues. Massive fines and British government scare tactics....and downloading continues.

Its such a silly fight to even have. If you dont like downloading...dont. Simple.

To the Mothers, tough shit. They knew what they were doing was illegal, and if they get caught, they should face the consequences. If I get caught jay walking, I'll man up and face the consequences.

Musicismylife, direct question. IF the artist got all $20 from the CD, and I mean every cent, would you go buy all the music you've stolen?

So do you jaywalk? You sort of came close to saying you did, but didnt fully admit it. Do you? If you do you are breaking the law. Its illegal. Why do you feel breaking that law is acceptable but others arent? Do you steal food, and stereo equiptment? Do you drive drunk? If you dont, why not? How can you pick and choose what laws to break and what laws not to break? Breaking the law is breaking the law.

keeponrockin

Oh for sure I jaywalk, but I'd accept the punishment.

PLUS, jaywalking isn't hurting anyone, where stealing music is.

And using you're argument, all breaking of the law is breaking the law, so filesharing=murder?

JordyWordy

musicismylife78 wrote:

punishments should fit crimes. If you steal 2 candy bars, I think the punishment should be lighter than if you steal 2 cars, or steal 20,000 dollars from a bank.

I dont think every criminal should be given the same sentence. Murder and Rape are alot different than stealing a car, so I obviously think the rapist and murderer should get harsher sentences

I agree with what Rhino said above: the one thing i cant understand is your sense of Entitlement. everything else i get.

The penalty of $1million or whatever it was is not just for 22 songs, its for the general damage theyre seen to have done. The 22 songs are used as evidence of the crime, the court would have insisted on showing several types of, instances of & repetitions of filesharing to charge the guy. 22 songs that they can factually prove with complete evidence. 22 songs that are indicators of the probable millions of occassions that someone copied files from him, and for every single copy made, the money lost to those who are legally due to receive it.

If you think about the number of times people downloaded his copy for free, for each song, for every single album, its very likely that $1million is only a fraction of what the market value of that music was.

Seeing as you said earlier that Music, books & movies are what you spend your cash on: Would you steal books? are you entitled to those? Or paintings? Do you download movies? Do you see them the same way or differently? Genuine Q here.

mookeywrench

I jaywalk because the benefit of jaywalking outweighs the consequences and risk of me getting caught, I know it's wrong and I realize I'm not entitled to jaywalk whenever I want to free of consequence.

I speed because the benefit of speeding outweighs the consequences and risks of me getting caught I know it's wrong and I realize I'm not entitled to spped whenver I want to free of consequence.

I don't murder because the risks of getting caught and the consequences involved aren't worth the benefits.

You steal music it's because the benefit outweighs the consequences and risk of geting caught, but understand it's wrong and you shouldn't consider yourself entitled to steal whatever music you want free of consequence.

mookeywrench

facepollution wrote:

keeponrockin wrote:

I'm sure Wal-Mart, etc. Can do this as a lost litre.

Yeah but I doubt the record shops can.

Record shops will either take a loss and hope that their other merch can bring in a profit (by selling t-shirts posters, coffee, food).

Or retailers will hike the price on mainstream/more popular artists in order to lower the price on indie artists.

Lil' Wayne 17.99....Pissed Jeans 7.99

facepollution

mookeywrench wrote:

Record shops will either take a loss and hope that their other merch can bring in a profit (by selling t-shirts posters, coffee, food).

Or retailers will hike the price on mainstream/more popular artists in order to lower the price on indie artists.

Lil' Wayne 17.99....Pissed Jeans 7.99

What I'm getting at, is that the physical price of a cd is actually very low, for all they know (record labels, record stores) if they dropped the price by half, they may sell over double the amount which would off-set the reduction and bring in more profit. I know I would be more likely to take a chance on a new band's cd if it was only say £4.