What is Bob Dylan Talking About?
DriftingByTheStorm
Posts: 8,684
I thought i would throw this out as an inquiry to the board, and maybe (hopefully) stimulate some *polite* conversation.
Read the following Dylan lyrics, written just 3 months before the assassination of JFK, and becoming even more relevant upon the song's release just months afterwards (but then i should not be leading the question, now should i?)
Study Questions:
teachers note: to be read aloud in class, and answers given by the students individually as time permits.
Remember to stimulate discussion, but try not to manipulate the conversation. Let students reach, and make their own conclusions.
Questions --
1.
a. What is "the ship" in this poem, and what does the author mean when it "comes in"?
b. Where is the ship now, if it has not yet come in?
2.
a. what do "the words that are used for to get the ship confused" symbolize?
b. what does the next line, "will not be understood as they're spoken", imply?
c. how do the chains that "have busted in the night" relate to the "words that are used" in the lines above?
d. why is it significant that the chains are "buried at the bottom of the ocean"?
3a. It is not until the 5th and 6th stanzas that the author reveals directly that there are any passengers on the ship.
i. Why do you think "the sun will respect every face on the deck the hour that the ship comes in"?
ii. What is so significant about that moment?
iii.Who are all the faces on the deck?
b. It is only in the 6th stanza specifically that the author indicates that YOU are on the ship, and that there is a carpet of gold being rolled out for you.
i. What is the intended meaning of this stanza of the poem?
ii. How do the implications of the Author's use of the word "your" in the poem affect your understanding of the song's meaning?
iii. Why are "your weary toes" weary?
4. The wise men on board "remind you once again the whole wide world is watchin'."
a. Why are they watching? What is so significant about the the event that you have been reminded?
b Who is the whole world watching?
5. The last two stanzas focus on "the foes" and their relationship to the people on the ship.
a. Who do you think the author is referring under the title "the foes" in the last two stanzas?
b. Why do the foes "think they're dreamin", and why is this event so unpleasant for them?
6. In the final stanza of the song it is revealed that "the foes" surrender and offer to "meet all your demands". However the people on the ship shout back "your days are numbered".
a. Is this an implication of intended violence on the part of those on the ship? If not, what may the phrase, "your days are numbered" imply instead?
b. Why do you think the people on the ship might refuse to stop at having all their demands met? What may they want instead?
7. Revisit question 1. and reevaluate your answer.
TALK AMONGST YOURSELVES AT YOUR TABLES AND THEN DISCUSS WITH THE GROUP.
Thank You.
-dbts
moment of zen:
Dylan and Baez perform "When The Ship Comes In" For a '63 Civil Rights march beneath the 666 foot tall Masonic obelisk in Washington, DC
Read the following Dylan lyrics, written just 3 months before the assassination of JFK, and becoming even more relevant upon the song's release just months afterwards (but then i should not be leading the question, now should i?)
Oh the time will come up
When the winds will stop
And the breeze will cease to be breathin'.
Like the stillness in the wind
'Fore the hurricane begins,
The hour when the ship comes in.
Oh the seas will split
And the ship will hit
And the sands on the shoreline will be shaking.
Then the tide will sound
And the wind will pound
And the morning will be breaking.
Oh the fishes will laugh
As they swim out of the path
And the seagulls they'll be smiling.
And the rocks on the sand
Will proudly stand,
The hour that the ship comes in.
And the words that are used
For to get the ship confused
Will not be understood as they're spoken.
For the chains of the sea
Will have busted in the night
And will be buried at the bottom of the ocean.
A song will lift
As the mainsail shifts
And the boat drifts on to the shoreline.
And the sun will respect
Every face on the deck,
The hour that the ship comes in.
Then the sands will roll
Out a carpet of gold
For your weary toes to be a-touchin'.
And the ship's wise men
Will remind you once again
That the whole wide world is watchin'.
Oh the foes will rise
With the sleep still in their eyes
And they'll jerk from their beds and think they're dreamin'.
But they'll pinch themselves and squeal
And know that it's for real,
The hour when the ship comes in.
Then they'll raise their hands,
Sayin' we'll meet all your demands,
But we'll shout from the bow your days are numbered.
And like Pharaoh's tribe,
They'll be drownded in the tide,
And like Goliath, they'll be conquered.
Study Questions:
teachers note: to be read aloud in class, and answers given by the students individually as time permits.
Remember to stimulate discussion, but try not to manipulate the conversation. Let students reach, and make their own conclusions.
Questions --
1.
a. What is "the ship" in this poem, and what does the author mean when it "comes in"?
b. Where is the ship now, if it has not yet come in?
2.
a. what do "the words that are used for to get the ship confused" symbolize?
b. what does the next line, "will not be understood as they're spoken", imply?
c. how do the chains that "have busted in the night" relate to the "words that are used" in the lines above?
d. why is it significant that the chains are "buried at the bottom of the ocean"?
3a. It is not until the 5th and 6th stanzas that the author reveals directly that there are any passengers on the ship.
i. Why do you think "the sun will respect every face on the deck the hour that the ship comes in"?
ii. What is so significant about that moment?
iii.Who are all the faces on the deck?
b. It is only in the 6th stanza specifically that the author indicates that YOU are on the ship, and that there is a carpet of gold being rolled out for you.
i. What is the intended meaning of this stanza of the poem?
ii. How do the implications of the Author's use of the word "your" in the poem affect your understanding of the song's meaning?
iii. Why are "your weary toes" weary?
4. The wise men on board "remind you once again the whole wide world is watchin'."
a. Why are they watching? What is so significant about the the event that you have been reminded?
b Who is the whole world watching?
5. The last two stanzas focus on "the foes" and their relationship to the people on the ship.
a. Who do you think the author is referring under the title "the foes" in the last two stanzas?
b. Why do the foes "think they're dreamin", and why is this event so unpleasant for them?
6. In the final stanza of the song it is revealed that "the foes" surrender and offer to "meet all your demands". However the people on the ship shout back "your days are numbered".
a. Is this an implication of intended violence on the part of those on the ship? If not, what may the phrase, "your days are numbered" imply instead?
b. Why do you think the people on the ship might refuse to stop at having all their demands met? What may they want instead?
7. Revisit question 1. and reevaluate your answer.
TALK AMONGST YOURSELVES AT YOUR TABLES AND THEN DISCUSS WITH THE GROUP.
Thank You.
-dbts
moment of zen:
Dylan and Baez perform "When The Ship Comes In" For a '63 Civil Rights march beneath the 666 foot tall Masonic obelisk in Washington, DC
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
Otherwise, it's very vague, and most of it is just embelishment on "waiting for the something", which seems to be the revolution of the people in the end.
I dont really get the supposed JFK link
1) The ship is an event that is yet to pass, and it "coming in" means it now comes to pass
2) The whole thing signifies that the people will not be deterred by the usual talk of their oppressors (as they were before), as they have shed their chains. Bottom of the sea is in keeping with the maritime theme of the song.
3) The working masses is what is alluded to generally. Sun on faces and weary toes implies hardships survived, and definitely a worker-image.
This stanza is where it becomes clear what the preceeding stanzas were all about. What the boat contains and further foreshadows "the event".
4) The world is watching is meant as a line to steel the resolve of the ones aboard the ship. If they stand fast here, the entire world will notice, and be changed because of it.
5) The foes, would be the oppressors, "the haves" or what you want to call them. They are so used to running things by themselves, that they can't get to grips with the people truly rising up and deposing them.
6)The reason they dont accept demands being met, is that it is essentially a bribe. That would keep the old structure going that they were rebelling against, they would just be better compensated. With steeled resolves they reject the offer. They want a new day, not a continuation of the old.
7) I stick with my initial interpretation. The ship is the vessel for these people, the vague event that is leading them all to liberty in the end.
Pretty much in keeping with other Dylan songs from those days, like Masters of War. Defintely late 60s "hippie" marxist inspiration for the whole piece.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Yes. But then we haven't moved much light on to the subject with that, now have we?
It's very vague, or it makes explicit that this is a peoples revolution?
Support your conclusion.
There was no link intended except to connote the cultural milieu of the songs creation. The only "real" link is within the lyrics of the song. Did the "words that are used for to keep the ship confused" not increase dramatically after the assassination of JFK? Was the event not used to massively confuse (paralyze, disorient, despair, inflict neurosis upon) a people? Would that not further support the implicit rallying cry of the song?
What is "the usual talk of their oppressors" and WHO is "they" who are being oppressed?
The chains could just have easily washed ashore. Is there permanence implied in the "final" resting place of the chains? What is this act that, apparently happening peacefully in the night, rendered the chains useless upon their captives, freeing them eternally?
Again, is this a "very vague" notion, or is the song quietly explicit in its declaration?
To repeat the original questions, why is the term "YOUR" used in this song, what is the intended significance of this inclusion?
This stanza is where it becomes clear what the preceeding stanzas were all about. What the boat contains and further foreshadows "the event".
Who are "the haves", and how do they use "words [...] for to confuse" ?
And again to the original questions, WHAT event occurred that irrevocably terminated the relationship between "the chained" and "the foes"?
What is "the old structure" that you are referring to? What lines in the song indicate "rebelling against" to you? To the original questions, WHAT event occurred that brought this change in circumstance? Was it violence? Once more, how did the chains get "busted in the night"?
But what about the words that are used, man? What was the event?
Were they "led" to liberty or was it discovered?
Marxist, huh?
"Counterfeit philosophies have polluted all of your thoughts.
Karl Marx has got ya by the throat, Henry Kissinger's got you tied up in knots.
When you gonna wake up, when you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain?"
- When You Gonna Wake Up?, Bob Dylan, 1979
I don't think he was copping out to Marx.
Could it be a plea to simple liberty?
Always.
Thanks for playing.
I ALWAYS do my own homework.
And just so we are clear, the kind of institution to which i attend does not offer any degrees, and there is no matriculation -- the way Jefferson wanted it, and hoped UVa would be. Just learning for learning's sake.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
'Cept Quinn the Eskimo. That one's about Jesus.
"So I made a mistake, ONE mistake, can't a man start over?! DO I HAVE TO KEEP PAYING?! Maybe I should make another mistake... maybe I should make two."
However, seeing as their are no Dylanologists here, the song is about Bob being pissed off after being denied entry into a hotel based on his looks and appearance.
and can we all agree that is one of the most underrated dylan songs ever?
ok. thanks.