American sex-paranoid Conservatism going way too far now

kenny olav

Unbelievable! Check out this story:


Arizona couple sues Walmart after being accused of sexual abuse over kids' bath-time photos

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Friday, September 18th 2009, 9:15 AM

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... z0RkG8fCQ9

PHOENIX - An Arizona couple accused of sexual abuse after taking bath-time photos of their children and then trying to have them developed at Walmart are suing the state and the retail giant.

Lisa and Anthony "A.J." Demaree's three young daughters were taken away by Arizona Child Protective Services last fall when a Walmart employee found partially nude pictures of the girls on a camera memory stick taken to the store for processing, according to the suit.

The Peoria couple's attorney said Walmart turned the photos over to police and the Demarees were not allowed to see their children for several days and didn't regain custody for a month while the state investigated.

Neither parent was charged with sexual abuse and they regained custody of their children — then ages 1 1/2, 4 and 5 — but the Demarees claim the incident inflicted lasting harm.

The couple is seeking undetermined monetary damages from both Walmart and the state and have requested a jury trial.

Richard Treon, the lawyer for the Demarees, said the images of the girls were part of a group of 144 photographs taken mostly during the family's vacation in San Diego.

There were seven to eight bath- and playtime photos of the girls that showed a "portion or outline or genitalia."

"There was nothing sexual about it," Treon said. "This is a parent's worst nightmare."

One lawsuit names Arizona, Peoria and the state Attorney General's Office as defendants, claiming that employees from each defamed them by telling friends, family members and co-workers that they had "sexually abused" their children by taking pornographic pictures of them.

A second lawsuit, naming Walmart as the defendant, says the company is at fault for not telling Anthony Demaree that it had an "unsuitable print policy" and could decide to turn any photos over to law enforcement.

Calls to Arkansas-based Walmart and officials from Peoria and Arizona seeking comment on the suits were not immediately returned Thursday.

---

This should NEVER have happened. What has happened to us? When I was a little kid, there were a ton of pics of me in the bath tub naked with my willy hanging out. There's pictures of me, my sisters and my cousins running around the back yard of my grandma's cottage, all of us naked... haha... who cares? We were all very little. These kids are aged 1 1/2, 4 and 5 - if you see something sexually abusive about pictures showing a "portion or outline or genitalia" on these kids, who were just playing in the bath tub, YOU are the pervert. Wal-Mart is the pervert. The state of Arizona is the pervert. I CANNOT BELIEVE this family was put through this.

My mother's family lives in Norway, and one year at Christmas, she got a calendar from my aunt, and for each month, there was a picture of various family members. A few of the pictures were of my little cousins, and they were splashing around in the river completely naked. The older kids in the pictures were about 8 or 9. We just laughed at it, and thought "OK, well, we can never display this calendar in the house, because some people would freak out". And that's sad... it just shows the difference between an enlightened, chilled-out country like Norway, and our backward, paranoid country that almost put Sarah Palin in the White House.

Hatred and fear of nudity leads to violence... that's a fact. Consider countries like Iran and Afghanistan. The way things are now... you can't even take naked pictures of your babies. In Europe, women can breastfeed in public, and no one notices... because it's nothing to notice! When Americans sexualize such things, it's due to a collective mind-fucking, and I'm not entirely sure what the origins of that are. Meanwhile, we dress our young girls up like sluts for Halloween.... makes no fucking sense. Everything is backwards here.

blackredyellow

wow...

I feel bad for those parents.

I remember last christmas my mother got my (then 11 month old) son a little bathrobe/slipper set... after a bath one night we put it on him to take some pictures to send to her.

We did it with our digital camera, but some of the shots showed much more than we were planning I made a joke to my wife then like "good thing this isn't the days of film cameras or we'd be arrested for getting these developed" Sad to know that I could have been right...


Part of the settlement should include the chance to punch the walmart employees who called the cops.

polaris_x

america is fast becoming an extremist nation ... the sooner the non-extremists realize this - the best chance you have of stopping it ...

blackredyellow

polaris_x wrote:

america is fast becoming an extremist nation ... the sooner the non-extremists realize this - the best chance you have of stopping it ...

I'd disagree with that... it's just that the tiny percent of extremists seem to always get the media attention.

Even this story, there are 3000+ wal mart stores in the US, and by going by the photo counters that I've seen, they have to process hundreds or thousands of pictures at each store every day... and this one story gets the media attention.

polaris_x

blackredyellow wrote:

I'd disagree with that... it's just that the tiny percent of extremists seem to always get the media attention.

Even this story, there are 3000+ wal mart stores in the US, and by going by the photo counters that I've seen, they have to process hundreds or thousands of pictures at each store every day... and this one story gets the media attention.

this opinion is not based on one incident ... we can discuss a plethora of incidents ... as long as god is used to form decisions - i see it getting worse ...

even in this example ... it's not just one employee ... it's one employee plus a willing store manager plus a willing police department followed by a willing childrens aid society ... do you know how many organizations and people this went through? ... ridiculous ...

markin ball

I used to work at a photo lab and we were required to report any suspected illegal activity and unfortunately this is a judgement call. Once we were developed pictures of a five year old girl with close-ups of a bruised and pubic region. We called the cops and a couple of detectives waited at the lab almost all day until they guy came back to pick up his pictures. Turns out the little girl fell on the edge of a shopping cart when she was climbing out of it and the pictures were taken in order to document the injuries for any potential law suit or something. Without seeing theses "bathtime" photos, it is tough to say whether or not you would have called the cops yourself. Now I am giving the authorities the benefit of the doubt here, but maybe these photos didn't look like most of our childhood bathtime photos for one reason or another. The Walmart employee called the police and then the cop, detective or someone in charge decided the pictures were worthy of further investigation. So that is at least two people and most likely their supervisors that found the pictures at least questionable.

Claireack

It isn't just America.

This kind of thing happens over here. There's not much trust these days. In a way I can understand, too many cases of child abuse have gone undetected over the years, Social Workers have had a good hammering over here - rightly so in many cases. I do think this has led to overcautiousness in perhaps the wrong areas.

I agree that case was completely ridiculous, I would imagine having your kids taken off you would be absolutely horrendous!

blackredyellow

MS7509 wrote:

I used to work at a photo lab and we were required to report any suspected illegal activity and unfortunately this is a judgement call. Once we were developed pictures of a five year old girl with close-ups of a bruised and pubic region. We called the cops and a couple of detectives waited at the lab almost all day until they guy came back to pick up his pictures. Turns out the little girl fell on the edge of a shopping cart when she was climbing out of it and the pictures were taken in order to document the injuries for any potential law suit or something. Without seeing theses "bathtime" photos, it is tough to say whether or not you would have called the cops yourself. Now I am giving the authorities the benefit of the doubt here, but maybe these photos didn't look like most of our childhood bathtime photos for one reason or another. The Walmart employee called the police and then the cop, detective or someone in charge decided the pictures were worthy of further investigation. So that is at least two people and most likely their supervisors that found the pictures at least questionable.

Thanks for the different perspective... I can't imagine the pictures that those places see. My initial reaction has been soften a bit... also keeping in mind that a lawsuit isn't the best place to find unbiased facts about a situation.

We are all speculating since we haven't seen the pictures, but for the police to take this sort of action, I would think that there maybe "something" a little off about the pictures or the cops were just horrible at their jobs. Nobody wants to see kids abused, but to take custody away from the parents is a BIG step to take from law enforcement.

kenny olav

MS7509 wrote:

I used to work at a photo lab and we were required to report any suspected illegal activity and unfortunately this is a judgement call. Once we were developed pictures of a five year old girl with close-ups of a bruised and pubic region. We called the cops and a couple of detectives waited at the lab almost all day until they guy came back to pick up his pictures. Turns out the little girl fell on the edge of a shopping cart when she was climbing out of it and the pictures were taken in order to document the injuries for any potential law suit or something. Without seeing theses "bathtime" photos, it is tough to say whether or not you would have called the cops yourself. Now I am giving the authorities the benefit of the doubt here, but maybe these photos didn't look like most of our childhood bathtime photos for one reason or another. The Walmart employee called the police and then the cop, detective or someone in charge decided the pictures were worthy of further investigation. So that is at least two people and most likely their supervisors that found the pictures at least questionable.

I think if there was something more than just nudity in these bathtime photos, the story would have reported it. I think we've just gotten to a point where no one trusts anyone and everyone suspects the worst... and I guess a large part of it is that there ARE a lot of child molesters out there. There ARE reasons to be concerned, but it gets taken too far. I think all of this comes from the same source.... fear of the human body, and of sexuality... which warps a lot of minds, and creates sexual perversion, whether it's an unnatural contempt for nakedness, or, in some cases, violent sexual predators. Religion is the main source of these fears. Didn't necessarily want to bring religion into this discussion, but what else explains it?




This is brilliant.... I just found this map which shows what counties in California have the highest percentages of sex offenders:

http://www.sacbee.com/1098/story/2151478.html

The liberal counties have the lowest #, and the conservative counties have the highest #! SAYS IT ALL!!!

Evil Merlin Part Deux

Kenny Olav wrote:

This is brilliant.... I just found this map which shows what counties in California have the highest percentages of sex offenders:

http://www.sacbee.com/1098/story/2151478.html

The liberal counties have the lowest #, and the conservative counties have the highest #! SAYS IT ALL!!!

Your take on that map is a bit misleading...it's more along the lines of population density. Not whether the county is liberal or conservative. The areas with yellow and red have some places where you can get pretty far into the middle of nowhere away from a decent sized community fairly quickly.

VINNY GOOMBA

I don't think it's a liberal or a conservative problem so much as it is the fact that our country has been brainwashed into a mindset that everyone is a potential criminal, or a terrorist, or a pervert, and that anyone not partaking in this new mega-mccarthyism and surveillance is not only complicit, but also responsible for any "wrong-doing."

Let's face it. Prisons are practically slave-labor camps any more, and taxpayer dollars pay for all of the overhead. For the rest of us who engage in less questionable behavior, there are plenty of fines and fees to go around. Everything is illegal when it comes to governing your own family anymore, from disciplinning your child to taking pictures of them in the bathtub.

We've listened to our TV and our "leaders" for far too long and have become fear-mongered into a nation of RATS. Of course there are situations when something is WRONG, and there is a real crime being committed, and needs to be reported, and if serious enough, needs immediate intervention by the witness him or herself if necessary. But there's also taddle-tailing. I haven't seen these pictures myself, so I can't comment for sure, but I'm willing to bet that this is a case where the pictures didn't deserve any extra attention, and that the Wal*Mart employee probably showed no empathy, judgement, or understanding of what he or she saw in these pictures.

I'm going to risk belittling my point here by sounding like our friend W. here for a minute... Sometimes, you just have to trust your gut, and not necessarily what you've been taught by your boss, the media, or your government, as not everything is black and white. Your gut is often a better indicator of what you are witnessing as right and wrong than what anyone else has told you.

cincybearcat

Kenny Olav wrote:

This is brilliant.... I just found this map which shows what counties in California have the highest percentages of sex offenders:

http://www.sacbee.com/1098/story/2151478.html

The liberal counties have the lowest #, and the conservative counties have the highest #! SAYS IT ALL!!!

That's because in the liberal counties they kill their babies before they are born.

You won't find a vegetarian at a brazillian steak house would you?

darthvedder81

It's not liberal or conservative or democrat or republican folks—it's tyranny versus freedom. The busybodies and teetotalers in government want nothing more than squeeze every penny out of you they can and micromanage your life.

"For every tool they lend us a loss of independence". That's Ed's most libertarian lyric.

VINNY GOOMBA

darthvedder81 wrote:

It's not liberal or conservative or democrat or republican folks—it's tyranny versus freedom. The busybodies and teetotalers in government want nothing more than squeeze every penny out of you they can and micromanage your life.

"For every tool they lend us a loss of independence". That's Ed's most libertarian lyric.

I hear ya loud and clear. And for all the years I've sang that lyric, it only really hit me recently, and I couldn't agree more. Ed in 1999 / 2000 had a much different outlook then-- one that I agree with a lot more.

I think Nader being a "spoiler" in the 2000 election had a profound impact on Eddie-- they toured heavy that year, pushed Nader quite a bit, and W. ended up "winning" the most controversial presidential election in our nation's history. The years that followed speak for themselves.

Drowned Out

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

I don't think it's a liberal or a conservative problem so much as it is the fact that our country has been brainwashed into a mindset that everyone is a potential criminal, or a terrorist, or a pervert, and that anyone not partaking in this new mega-mccarthyism and surveillance is not only complicit, but also responsible for any "wrong-doing."

Let's face it. Prisons are practically slave-labor camps any more, and taxpayer dollars pay for all of the overhead. For the rest of us who engage in less questionable behavior, there are plenty of fines and fees to go around. Everything is illegal when it comes to governing your own family anymore, from disciplinning your child to taking pictures of them in the bathtub.

We've listened to our TV and our "leaders" for far too long and have become fear-mongered into a nation of RATS. .

Yes....I think it's probably no coincidence that this happened in AZ, where finding fun new ways to incarcerate people seems to be a state passtime. Wtf is going on down there?
But yes, this is pervasive everywhere....my daughter just started grade one...I was mildly surprised to learn that I need a criminal record check and some kind of social agency clearance if I ever want to volunteer in her classroom.

Prince Of Dorkness

HM. I make porn so I'm sure not a prude at all.

But I'll tell you this.. taking pictures of a naked 5 year-old is just creepy beyond words.

I'd worry what other things they're shrugging off too, to be honest...

Prince Of Dorkness

polaris_x wrote:

america is fast becoming an extremist nation ... the sooner the non-extremists realize this - the best chance you have of stopping it ...

Oh, I don't think that at all.

The extremists are sure making a lot of noise... yelling at "town hall meetings" or throwing big publicity stunts like marches on washington and cross burnings, but in the end, it's just the freaky fringe... that's not indicative of the country as a whole.

aerial

Jasunmark wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

america is fast becoming an extremist nation ... the sooner the non-extremists realize this - the best chance you have of stopping it ...

Oh, I don't think that at all.

The extremists are sure making a lot of noise... yelling at "town hall meetings" or throwing big publicity stunts like marches on washington and cross burnings, but in the end, it's just the freaky fringe... that's not indicative of the country as a whole.

The administration can lie, but the little guys better not raise their voice or question Washington. The march was not a publicity stunt...we knew the media would not be there because the so called main stream media is not reporting all the news......they sure don't want to show Americans the man they helped get in the White house has opposition....were the hell did you get cross burnings from? The march was for Washington only, but it is ashamed that history was not covered to its fullest. The Largest March on Washington in History.
I believe in the Bible and God...but I agree, seems this was taken to far....we have many embarrassing pictures of my son when he was small in the buff....

Cosmo

Anyone that sees something sexual in pictures of little kids taking a bath... what's that telling you about that person?

soulsinging

MS7509 wrote:

I used to work at a photo lab and we were required to report any suspected illegal activity and unfortunately this is a judgement call. Once we were developed pictures of a five year old girl with close-ups of a bruised and pubic region. We called the cops and a couple of detectives waited at the lab almost all day until they guy came back to pick up his pictures. Turns out the little girl fell on the edge of a shopping cart when she was climbing out of it and the pictures were taken in order to document the injuries for any potential law suit or something. Without seeing theses "bathtime" photos, it is tough to say whether or not you would have called the cops yourself. Now I am giving the authorities the benefit of the doubt here, but maybe these photos didn't look like most of our childhood bathtime photos for one reason or another. The Walmart employee called the police and then the cop, detective or someone in charge decided the pictures were worthy of further investigation. So that is at least two people and most likely their supervisors that found the pictures at least questionable.

I've got to agree. I hate prudish Christian nuts, but this doesn't really connect to me. Nowhere does the article get into values... this was probably some 16 year old kid who saw pics of naked kids, didnt want to lose his job, handed it off to a manager, who didnt want to lose his job if they got sued, etc etc. I think conservative values are more outdated and alarming ever day, but to me this says more about a society seeing bogeymen behind ever door thanks to movies, tv, talking heads, to catch a predator, etc.

Prince Of Dorkness

aerial wrote:

The march was not a publicity stunt...we knew the media would not be there because the so called main stream media is not reporting all the news.....

wtf are you on about? That silly party was covered by every station.. every single one.. CNN had huge amounts of coverage and ABC was all over it.. If there was no MSM there.. how do I know about it? I don't watch Fox News.

The march was for Washington only, but it is ashamed that history was not covered to its fullest. The Largest March on Washington in History.

Not even close. you had 70,000 people there. The anti-war rally before the Gulf War started attracted over 1.5 million. If it was the biggest Rally in the history of Washington, why did you have to use fake pictures from a Promise Keepers rally in the 90s and a video of the Kennedy Memorial to "prove" the size of the crowd?

What's most funny is how Fox is trying to spin this... first they though that a whole bunch of angry white people carrying racist signs would be a good story.. then when that didn't resonate, the story became how BIG it was.. and when that story got shot down, now Fox is lying about how nobody else covered their little temper tantrum... which they did. I suppose next they'll start to complain about how their "anti-socialism" rally didn't get enough support from the public transit.

we have many embarrassing pictures of my son when he was small in the buff....

[/quote]

Yeah, why do parents do that? i've always thought that was just... creepy.