Cap and Trade
jlew24asu
Posts: 10,118
are there any experts around here on the subject? its something I'm interested in but do not know much about it.
..and why is this appear to be such a partisan issue? although I really dont care much about the politics of it, more just curious.
..and why is this appear to be such a partisan issue? although I really dont care much about the politics of it, more just curious.
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http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/09/15 ... 4040.shtml
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it's a partisan issue because everything seems to be a partisan issue ... truths gets distorted to suit people's agenda ... so, a heavily polluting industry will hire lobbyists and pr firms to make misleading statements in order to make people (politicians) think it's bad ...
for example - people who don't want health care start using terms like socialism and such because it has been proven to strike the fear of hell in many people ... soo ... this is a similar thing ...
Basically, there is a set amount of pollution allowed. If Company A is going to pollute less and Company B is going to pollute more, Company A can sell it's excess allowance to pollute to Company B. That's a pretty simple explanation. I'm just calling it "allowances" because I don't remember if they're going to be issued permits or what. Please correct me if I have that totally wrong.
I'm a bit concerned that this will turn into an entirely speculative market similar to the stock market. Companies may end up less concerned about how much they're polluting and more concerned with how much they can sell their excess allowance for and probably at an aritifically inflated amount. Those increased costs would then be passed on to the consumer via product price increases. Then, once the price of pollution allowances get out of control, the price will be "corrected" and investors will lose a ton of money and investment securities and loans backed by pollution allowances will fail and cause another recession. Man . . . exaggerations are fun and scary!
What has already been said is basically correct.
...
Let's say we have a heavy manufacturing plant in an industrial zoned area in the city. Nearby are cadmium plating businesses, some auto body shops, car dealers with maintenance and repair facilities and other business that pollute. They all get Smog Credits, with the giant heavy manufacturing getting more than the local body shop because the giant manufacturing plant pollutes more than the body shop.
If the manufacturing plant reaches it's allocation of Smog Credits... it has choices to make:
A. Cease manufacturing until the next period... OR
B. Trade (purchase) Smog credits from the surrounding businesses. This would mean the auto body shop would shut down, so the manufacturing plant can pollute using their credits. The body shop can ask whatever the manufacturing plant is willing to pay for those credits... OR
C. The Manufacturing Plant can work towards cleaner processes.
...
It also works the other way...
If a body shop gets a contract to paint the city's fleet of cop cars... it will need to purchase Smog Credits from surrounding businesses... maybe even the heavy manufacturing plant.
Hail, Hail!!!
I've always thought it was a pretty good idea.
The way it works in Los Angeles... if your business is in Culver City... your Smog Credit trade partners are nearby... in Culver City. So, Culver City Auto Body cannot swap with a chrome plating company 75 miles North in Palmdale. Culver City trades with Culver City (and nearby areas) and Palmdale trades with Palmdale.
Hail, Hail!!!
Yeah, I think some of the issue was over the size of the area. I'm thinking back quite a while to when it was being discussed early. If you do what Cali is doing, it's not really a free market cap and trade and you could lose businesses.
================================================================
September 17, 2009
Dear Friend of Liberty:
One day, you hear a loud knock on your front door.
But it’s not a neighbor visiting or someone trying to sell you a subscription.
Instead, it’s a federal agent -- the federal government’s newest threat to your liberty demanding to check your household appliances . . . your light bulbs . . . your thermostat . . . and this is NO JOKE.
Believe me, I wish it was.
But should the so-called Cap and Trade Bill (which should be called Cap and Tax) pass, what I just described could be EXACTLY what you and I see in home after home, town after town all across our country -- along with skyrocketing taxes, home electric bills and heating prices.
That’s why it’s vital you sign the petition linked at the end of this letter to your U.S. Senators, insisting they vote against this dangerous power grab IMMEDIATELY.
You see, if passed, Cap and Tax would give the federal government UNPRECEDENTED control over the private sector -- and our very lives.
Big Government bureaucrats in Washington would effectively be able to tax businesses for emitting more carbon dioxide than they think is “appropriate.”
Just as bad, they’ll be able to demand you change your way of living -- forcing you to “retrofit” your house with “government-approved” light-bulbs, refrigerators, water heaters, toilets, air conditioners, and whatever else they can dream up.
And don’t think for a second they won’t send around federal jackboots to make sure you’re complying.
In fact, the Cap and Tax Bill SPECIFICALLY AUTHORIZES just such intrusive home visits by government snoops, empowered to sniff around your basement, climb into your attic and search your closets.
And that’s not all.
You see, Cap and Tax is just another excuse for Big Government to reach their greedy little hands deep into our wallets.
If passed, Cap and Tax would:
*** Increase taxes by $650 BILLION, virtually guaranteeing that our economy gets even worse and NEVER recovers;
*** Result in over ONE MILLION lost American jobs per year as energy-intensive industries are forced to shut their doors or move overseas;
*** Allow Big Government politicians to decide which businesses get taxpayer subsidies and which ones are shut down, virtually guaranteeing massive corruption on a scale we’ve never seen before in the United States.
And don’t believe the lies. This bill has nothing to do with the environment.
In fact, the best experts agree Cap and Tax will have almost zero impact on the environment anyway -- except, of course, for lost jobs, higher taxes, and blighted small towns and rural communities.
So what is Cap and Tax really about?
Raw government POWER.
Government POWER to tax.
Government POWER to enter your home to “check for compliance.”
And government POWER to control the economy, our lives and our freedom.
Just take a look at Spain -- the Cap and Taxers’ “shining” example of an eco-socialist paradise.
There, unemployment is approaching 20% and rising.
And what about all those new “green” jobs Cap and Tax apologists are claiming will be generated?
In Spain, for every new “green” job created (at a taxpayer cost of $800,000 EACH mind you), 2.2 economically-productive jobs are destroyed!
The fact is, passage of Cap and Tax could send our economy nose-diving off a cliff!
So it’s never been more important that you act TODAY.
The good news is, Campaign for Liberty has a plan to fight back.
But, I’m afraid, unless you act IMMEDIATELY, Cap and Tax will become law.
I won’t mince words. Our backs are against the wall. Already, Big Government politicians on both sides of the aisle have rammed this bill through the U.S. House.
And President Barack Obama would love nothing more than to flash a grin for his pals in the national media as he signs Cap and Tax into law.
So that means our ONE CHANCE to stop this radical bill is the U.S. Senate.
And there, our job isn’t easy. Just like in the House, there are pro-Cap and Tax Senators in both parties.
But there is good news.
There are also a lot of VERY nervous Senators in both parties. In fact, even John McCain is now wavering from his past support for Cap and Tax.
These Senators are nervous because they know that freedom-loving folks like you are catching on to what is happening and are fighting back against their schemes to take over health care and are unified in our fight to reign in the out-of-control Fed.
They’re nervous because we’ve come a long way in stopping their assaults on our liberty.
So now, in this latest fight, many Senators are riding the fence.
They’re afraid of what YOU’LL do to them if they vote to ram Cap and Tax into law.
So today, our job is to KNOCK those Senators off the fence and squarely onto our side by sending this one very LOUD and very CLEAR message to the U.S. Senate . . .
. . . Any politician who votes FOR Cap and Tax should look for another job.
PERIOD.
Here’s how Campaign for Liberty plans to do that -- hopefully, with your help.
First, we’re already busy contacting up to five million activists nationwide through mail, phones and email to generate petitions to the U.S. Congress demanding U.S. Senators vote AGAINST Cap and Tax.
And that’s just the beginning.
With your help, we’ll work the blogs and write guest editorials.
We’ll brief influential writers and columnists who will be sympathetic to our efforts.
We’ll work the talk radio stations and grant local media interviews to further turn up the pressure on Congress.
And a few days before the vote, if we have the resources, we’d also like to run hard-hitting targeted radio, TV and newspaper ads calling on Senators to vote against Cap and Tax.
Now, none of this is going to be easy -- or cheap.
But, with your help, I’m confident we can turn up so much grassroots pressure on our U.S. Senators, they’ll find out what REAL heat feels like!
So, in addition to your signed petition, I also hope you’ll agree to make a contribution of $250, $100 or $50 -- to Campaign for Liberty.
I know times are hard, but this fight is absolutely critical.
If you and I don’t fight back . . . well, I shudder to think about what could happen.
But I’m sure you’ll agree, the America you and I treasure could end up looking much, much different in just a few years.
So can I count on you to join the fight to STOP Cap and Tax by signing your petition, and by making a generous contribution of $50, $100 or $250 -- or whatever you can afford -- to Campaign for Liberty?
Sincerely,
John Tate
President
P.S. H.R. 2454, the Cap and Tax Bill, has already been rammed through the U.S. House and our ONE CHANCE is to stop the bill in the Senate.
If passed, the Cap and Tax Bill could send the entire U.S. economy nose-diving off a cliff, and you and I will be handing unprecedented control of our lives to the federal government.
=========================
I don't see how any REAL environmentalist can favor this bill? Pay to pollute? Is that a solution? Especially when it applies to energy companies that will just past the bill down to the consumer? \
Here is a link to a petition to oppose Cap and Trade: http://www.chooseliberty.org/capandtax.aspx
what is Mr. Paul's solution to environmental problems?
Stop subsidizing "dirty" energy.
i like that!
Simple, right? It wouldn't take a 1,200 page bill to do it either.
as an "environmentalist" .. i already know all the solutions are simple ... but people are ignorant and selfish ... two traits which bleed into all our world problems ... easy to fix if there ever was a will ...