Why the finger pointing

Dirtie_Frank

I have seen and heard a lot of finger pointing from the Dems that its the GOP fault for the Health Bill not passing. Correct me if I am wrong but don't the Dems have control of the House, Senate and of Course Barrack is a Dem. So what's the problem make a bill and pass it. It should go fairly smooth , no?

gimmesometruth27

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

I have seen and heard a lot of finger pointing from the Dems that its the GOP fault for the Health Bill not passing. Correct me if I am wrong but don't the Dems have control of the House, Senate and of Course Barrack is a Dem. So what's the problem make a bill and pass it. It should go fairly smooth , no?

the gop is resisting everything. period. end of story. they refuse to compromise on anything, and yet offer no actual solutions. the dems on the other hand are being pussies as usual. they could ram their agenda down the gop's collective throats if they wanted to, but they are going to let their golden opportunity slip away as usual.

by the way the finger pointing goes both ways. i have a question for you. why is the right making up complete bullshit and passing it off as fact in attempt to prevent any progress and sway public opinion against the administration?

Dirtie_Frank

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

I have seen and heard a lot of finger pointing from the Dems that its the GOP fault for the Health Bill not passing. Correct me if I am wrong but don't the Dems have control of the House, Senate and of Course Barrack is a Dem. So what's the problem make a bill and pass it. It should go fairly smooth , no?

the gop is resisting everything. period. end of story. they refuse to compromise on anything, and yet offer no actual solutions. the dems on the other hand are being pussies as usual. they could ram their agenda down the gop's collective throats if they wanted to, but they are going to let their golden opportunity slip away as usual.

by the way the finger pointing goes both ways. i have a question for you. why is the right making up complete bullshit and passing it off as fact in attempt to prevent any progress and sway public opinion against the administration?

Here is something wether it is a GOP or DEM president they all lie.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/obamas ... re-speech/

President Obama’s prime-time address to Congress and the nation on health care prompted a Republican congressman to shout “you lie!” Did he? Here’s what we’ve found:
Obama was correct when he said his plan wouldn’t insure illegal immigrants; the House bill expressly forbids giving subsidies to those who are in the country illegally. Conservative critics complain that the bill lacks an enforcement mechanism, but that hardly makes the president a liar.
The president said “no federal dollars will be used to fund abortions.” But the House bill would permit a “public option” to cover all abortions, and would also permit federal subsidies to be used to purchase private insurance that covers all abortions, a point that raises objections from anti-abortion groups. That’s true despite a technical ban on use of taxpayer dollars to pay for abortion coverage.
The president repeated his promise that his plan won’t add “one dime” to the federal deficit. But legislation offered so far would add hundreds of billions of dollars to the deficit over the next decade, according to the Congressional Budget Office.
The president overstated the degree of concentration in the insurance industry. He said that in 34 states the "insurance market" is controlled by five or fewer companies, but that’s true only of insurance bought by small groups, not the entire "insurance market."
Obama said his plan won’t “require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have.” It’s true that there’s no requirement, but experts say the legislation could induce employers to switch coverage for millions of workers

keeponrockin

The democrats are blowing it, no question...

I'm not a member of an organized political party, I'm a democrat.

slightofjeff

The plan, as proposed, is wildly unpopular among Americans. (Or at least it was before Obama's speech. Not sure if that has moved the poll numbers or not).

The Democrats have mid-term elections to think about. If they ram through a bill that the majority of Americans don't want, they risk losing at the ballot box. They need some Republicans to come aboard, for political cover.

Following the Obama speech, it wouldn't surprise me to see the Democrats get a little more proactive with passing a bill on their own.

jlew24asu

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

I have seen and heard a lot of finger pointing from the Dems that its the GOP fault for the Health Bill not passing. Correct me if I am wrong but don't the Dems have control of the House, Senate and of Course Barrack is a Dem. So what's the problem make a bill and pass it. It should go fairly smooth , no?

the gop is resisting everything. period. end of story. they refuse to compromise on anything, and yet offer no actual solutions. the dems on the other hand are being pussies as usual. they could ram their agenda down the gop's collective throats if they wanted to, but they are going to let their golden opportunity slip away as usual.

by the way the finger pointing goes both ways. i have a question for you. why is the right making up complete bullshit and passing it off as fact in attempt to prevent any progress and sway public opinion against the administration?

its shocking how misinformed you are.....on several issues. the right has offered several reforms, one being allowing people to buy health insurance across state lines...

and its actually Obama and the left who refuse to compromise saying they will not back down from a public option.

you really need to pay attention. as Eddie would say, I'm embarrassed for you.

slightofjeff

jlew24asu wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

I have seen and heard a lot of finger pointing from the Dems that its the GOP fault for the Health Bill not passing. Correct me if I am wrong but don't the Dems have control of the House, Senate and of Course Barrack is a Dem. So what's the problem make a bill and pass it. It should go fairly smooth , no?

the gop is resisting everything. period. end of story. they refuse to compromise on anything, and yet offer no actual solutions. the dems on the other hand are being pussies as usual. they could ram their agenda down the gop's collective throats if they wanted to, but they are going to let their golden opportunity slip away as usual.

by the way the finger pointing goes both ways. i have a question for you. why is the right making up complete bullshit and passing it off as fact in attempt to prevent any progress and sway public opinion against the administration?

its shocking how misinformed you are.....on several issues. the right has offered several reforms, one being allowing people to buy health insurance across state lines...

and its actually Obama and the left who refuse to compromise saying they will not back down from a public option.

you really need to pay attention. as Eddie would say, I'm embarrassed for you.

Obama, at least, has been publicly backing down from the public option ... which, of course, has Democrats pissed at him.

Cosmo

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

I have seen and heard a lot of finger pointing from the Dems that its the GOP fault for the Health Bill not passing. Correct me if I am wrong but don't the Dems have control of the House, Senate and of Course Barrack is a Dem. So what's the problem make a bill and pass it. It should go fairly smooth , no?

...
Then, why don't the Republicans join in the debate and try to negotiate a compromise solution? They want Tort reform? How about debating points to get it included? Don't like 'Death Panels'? Then get that stricken from the bill (if they can find it). Hate giving Federal credits to illegal aliens? I'm looking at you Joe The Wilson... Have it taken out (Oh... it already SAYS there will be no allowance for illegal aliens... oooops, your bad).
Instead of acting like poor persecuted spineless assholes... how about they grow a pair and get to fucking work???!!! Isn't THAT what we're paying them to do... WORK? They are fucking politicians in Congress... that's their fucking JOB!!! Get to work you fucking assholes!!! If we weren't such partisan dickheads... we'd FIRE YOUR ASSES!!!!

gimmesometruth27

jlew24asu wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

I have seen and heard a lot of finger pointing from the Dems that its the GOP fault for the Health Bill not passing. Correct me if I am wrong but don't the Dems have control of the House, Senate and of Course Barrack is a Dem. So what's the problem make a bill and pass it. It should go fairly smooth , no?

the gop is resisting everything. period. end of story. they refuse to compromise on anything, and yet offer no actual solutions. the dems on the other hand are being pussies as usual. they could ram their agenda down the gop's collective throats if they wanted to, but they are going to let their golden opportunity slip away as usual.

by the way the finger pointing goes both ways. i have a question for you. why is the right making up complete bullshit and passing it off as fact in attempt to prevent any progress and sway public opinion against the administration?

its shocking how misinformed you are.....on several issues. the right has offered several reforms, one being allowing people to buy health insurance across state lines...

and its actually Obama and the left who refuse to compromise saying they will not back down from a public option.

you really need to pay attention. as Eddie would say, I'm embarrassed for you.

shocking how misinformed i am? wow, hello kettle. the right has offered NOTHING. they will not play ball. it is the blue dogs stonewalling this thing. there is an overwhelming democratic majority in the house and they can't get their stuff together. name one other reasonable suggestion the gop has made in this legislation other than what you said. what you said will not help anything if people can't afford the insurance mind you. other than unanimously saying no to everything they have offered nothing. obama is compromising which has those of us that voted for him furious. without a public option there is no healthcare reform.

you are embarrassed for me? wow how sweet of you jlew. i never knew you had it in you to have empathy for anything.

blackredyellow

slightofjeff wrote:

The plan, as proposed, is wildly unpopular among Americans. (Or at least it was before Obama's speech. Not sure if that has moved the poll numbers or not).

That's the problem though... there is no one set plan, HR 3200 is the most widely cited, but even then the bill will look a lot different after it goes through committees, both houses, etc... Bring it to the floor and have an open debate on what should and shouldn't be in there... I know that is living in fantasyland, because a lot of the politicians would rather make a grandstanding speech to get on the news and pander to their base, then to actually do some work and shape this bill to help the public.

Most people haven't read it, but rely on soundbytes and characterizations that they hear (that may or may not be in the bill). Heck even if you read the sections that are supposed to prove these out of context characterizations, they are so filled with bureaucratic leagal-ease language that if you read them enough times in your head you can make it say almost whatever you want it to say.

jlew24asu

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

shocking how misinformed i am? wow, hello kettle. the right has offered NOTHING.

how can you say they've offered NOTHING? come on dude, are you really paying attention at all to this debate?

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/GOPHe ... ontentBody

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

they will not play ball. it is the blue dogs stonewalling this thing. there is an overwhelming democratic majority in the house and they can't get their stuff together. name one other reasonable suggestion the gop has made in this legislation other than what you said. what you said will not help anything if people can't afford the insurance mind you.

LOL other then what I said? why should I bother, anything I say you will automatically dismiss as not helpful. its far left liberals like you who are stonewalling this thing. its your way or no way right?

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

without a public option there is no healthcare reform.

and there you have it folks. and you want to blame the right for nothing happening? un fucking real.

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

you are embarrassed for me? wow how sweet of you jlew. i never knew you had it in you to have empathy for anything.

I am embarrassed for you. not only are you completely unaware of what republicans are offering, you are saying its your way or no way. public option or bust. can you see how counterproductive that is?

jlew24asu

blackredyellow wrote:

slightofjeff wrote:

The plan, as proposed, is wildly unpopular among Americans. (Or at least it was before Obama's speech. Not sure if that has moved the poll numbers or not).

That's the problem though... there is no one set plan, HR 3200 is the most widely cited, but even then the bill will look a lot different after it goes through committees, both houses, etc... Bring it to the floor and have an open debate on what should and shouldn't be in there... I know that is living in fantasyland, because a lot of the politicians would rather make a grandstanding speech to get on the news and pander to their base, then to actually do some work and shape this bill to help the public.
Most people haven't read it, but rely on soundbytes and characterizations that they hear (that may or may not be in the bill). Heck even if you read the sections that are supposed to prove these out of context characterizations, they are so filled with bureaucratic leagal-ease language that if you read them enough times in your head you can make it say almost whatever you want it to say.

EXACTLY. what also hurts this debate and bill is the far left being steadfast on a public option. its obvious the right, as well as many Americans, do not want that. its much more productive to pass a bill that both agree on...and there are many points as to which left and right agree.

inmytree

I just read through this:

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/GOPHe ... ontentBody

interesting...I suppose I could say "it lacks specifics" and "how are they going to pay for it"...but I won't...

I do wonder this, there is a bullet point stating:

Recognizes that one of the largest obstacles for many small businesses when it comes to
retaining current employees or creating new jobs is the cost of health insurance. The
plan allows states, small businesses, associations, and other organizations to band
together and offer health insurance at lower costs.

Wouldn't a single payer or public option erase this obstacle..?

and I wonder about this:

Brings greater fairness to the tax code by extending tax savings to those who
currently do not have employer-provided insurance but purchase health insurance on
their own. This provision would provide an “above the line” deduction that is equal
to the cost of an individual’s or family’s insurance premiums.

if a family can't afford to buy insurance...how is a tax break going to help them...?

and this:

Makes it easier for Americans to keep health care coverage regardless of a change in
or loss of a job.

how...?

Whoever wrote this probably gives a nice speech...

jlew24asu

inmytree wrote:

I just read through this:

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/GOPHe ... ontentBody

interesting...I suppose I could say "it lacks specifics" and "how are they going to pay for it"...but I won't...

I do wonder this, there is a bullet point stating:

Recognizes that one of the largest obstacles for many small businesses when it comes to
retaining current employees or creating new jobs is the cost of health insurance. The
plan allows states, small businesses, associations, and other organizations to band
together and offer health insurance at lower costs.

Wouldn't a single payer or public option erase this obstacle..?

yes, but it would also create more of them.

inmytree wrote:

and I wonder about this:

Brings greater fairness to the tax code by extending tax savings to those who
currently do not have employer-provided insurance but purchase health insurance on
their own. This provision would provide an “above the line” deduction that is equal
to the cost of an individual’s or family’s insurance premiums.

if a family can't afford to buy insurance...how is a tax break going to help them...?

gives them more money in their pocket to help pay for it. do you really need this explained to you?

This provision would provide an “above the line” deduction that is equal to the cost of an individual’s or family’s insurance premiums.

inmytree wrote:

and this:

Makes it easier for Americans to keep health care coverage regardless of a change in
or loss of a job.

how...?

a law stating insurance companies can not drop them and/or a subsidity from the government to help pay with the person is unemployed. but thats just me, I've been saying forever that healthcare coverage should be paid for as an unemployment benefit.

inmytree

jlew24asu wrote:

inmytree wrote:

I just read through this:

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/GOPHe ... ontentBody

interesting...I suppose I could say "it lacks specifics" and "how are they going to pay for it"...but I won't...

I do wonder this, there is a bullet point stating:

Recognizes that one of the largest obstacles for many small businesses when it comes to
retaining current employees or creating new jobs is the cost of health insurance. The
plan allows states, small businesses, associations, and other organizations to band
together and offer health insurance at lower costs.

Wouldn't a single payer or public option erase this obstacle..?

yes, but it would also create more of them.

inmytree wrote:

and I wonder about this:

Brings greater fairness to the tax code by extending tax savings to those who
currently do not have employer-provided insurance but purchase health insurance on
their own. This provision would provide an “above the line” deduction that is equal
to the cost of an individual’s or family’s insurance premiums.

if a family can't afford to buy insurance...how is a tax break going to help them...?

gives them more money in their pocket to help pay for it. do you really need this explained to you?

This provision would provide an “above the line” deduction that is equal to the cost of an individual’s or family’s insurance premiums.

inmytree wrote:

and this:

Makes it easier for Americans to keep health care coverage regardless of a change in
or loss of a job.

how...?

a law stating insurance companies can not drop them and/or a subsidity from the government to help pay with the person is unemployed. but thats just me, I've been saying forever that healthcare coverage should be paid for as an unemployment benefit.

A) create more...? um, ok...I guess folks having insurance would be a problem...

I think you're missing my point...if a family doesn't have $500 a month to cover a family of 4...having a tax break is not going to help them...let me explain...if they can't buy insurance because they can't afford it due there lack of income...they won't get a tax break...

C)what???? have the gov't subsidize insurance for the unemployed...are you some stinking socialist, fascist, marxist, muslum or something...?

jlew24asu

inmytree wrote:

A) create more...? um, ok...I guess folks having insurance would be a problem...

cute. no thats not a problem. a potential problem is the public option eventually crowding out private options. for example, the current bill calls for a 8% payroll fine for companies not providing healthcare. its much cheaper for them to dump employees into a public plan and just pay the fine. thats just one potential problem, there are others.

inmytree wrote:

I think you're missing my point...if a family doesn't have $500 a month to cover a family of 4...having a tax break is not going to help them...let me explain...if they can't buy insurance because they can't afford it due there lack of income...they won't get a tax break...

yes they will get a tax break. and how do you know they cant afford it due to lack of income? it might be because they have other higher priority expenses.

inmytree wrote:

C)what???? have the gov't subsidize insurance for the unemployed...are you some stinking socialist, fascist, marxist, muslum or something...?

do you see how childish this response is? I sure hope so. sometimes are you capable of real debate. but 9 times out of 10 you end up pulling off this shit. good job buddy.

and yes, I support the government stepping in when times are tough, I.E. being unemployed.

inmytree

jlew24asu wrote:

inmytree wrote:

A) create more...? um, ok...I guess folks having insurance would be a problem...

cute. no thats not a problem. a potential problem is the public option eventually crowding out private options. for example, the current bill calls for a 8% payroll fine for companies not providing healthcare. its much cheaper for them to dump employees into a public plan and just pay the fine. thats just one potential problem, there are others.

inmytree wrote:

I think you're missing my point...if a family doesn't have $500 a month to cover a family of 4...having a tax break is not going to help them...let me explain...if they can't buy insurance because they can't afford it due there lack of income...they won't get a tax break...

yes they will get a tax break. and how do you know they cant afford it due to lack of income? it might be because they have other higher priority expenses.

inmytree wrote:

C)what???? have the gov't subsidize insurance for the unemployed...are you some stinking socialist, fascist, marxist, muslum or something...?

do you see how childish this response is? I sure hope so. sometimes are you capable of real debate. but 9 times out of 10 you end up pulling off this shit. good job buddy.

and yes, I support the government stepping in when times are tough, I.E. being unemployed.

damn, how I love the high and mighty...

you rail against gov't providing insurance via a public option, then go on to advocate for the gov't provide insurance "when times are tough"...oh the irony....

jlew24asu

inmytree wrote:

damn, how I love the high and mighty...

you rail against gov't providing insurance via a public option, then go on to advocate for the gov't provide insurance "when times are tough"...oh the irony....

sorry, let me rephrase. when I said "times are tough" I meant when a person is unemployed.

there is a HUGE difference between a government run healthcare plan and unemployment benefit. if you can't see the difference then this debate will go no where.

que a cute one liner..

inmytree

jlew24asu wrote:

inmytree wrote:

damn, how I love the high and mighty...

you rail against gov't providing insurance via a public option, then go on to advocate for the gov't provide insurance "when times are tough"...oh the irony....

sorry, let me rephrase. when I said "times are tough" I meant when a person is unemployed.

there is a HUGE difference between a government run healthcare plan and unemployment benefit. if you can't see the difference then this debate will go no where.

que a cute one liner..

No one liner for now...but it's amusing how some get upset with sarcasm...seriously, tell me again who runs unemployment...? Call me kooky, but I'm pretty sure you're advocating for a gov't run health insurance program tied to unemployment benefits... who is going to pay for this benefit..? won't this program cost too much...?