Pearl Jam really needed to make the album available at a major store so that people who arent fans of the band have access to the new album. Most people dont go to indie record stores anymore. It is not selling out to do that. It is just smart. Do they want to continue to sell out their concerts or just become a band where there fanclub follows them around to their concerts and then ultimately see their fan base dwindle because their new stuff doesn't sound like Ten or Vs. anymore?
Ok, that makes sense, but what loyal fans are willing to support their local independent music retailer? I see many loyals on here OK with Target yet also proclaim that PJ is decent enough to still let independent stores sell the new album. But no one's mentioned that they will actually support these stores on the forum...
Im sure there will be some who go to a local store and buy it. There has to be a good reason to go buy it there. For me, the only independent music store around me, when the last record came out wasnt going to have it in stock so he was going to have to order it and I had him order it and he gave it to me the day before it was supposed to come out. So that really worked out for me. I like dealing with stores like that alot because you get alot better customer service. Plus they have alot of music that other stores do not have. This time around, I am buying it through Pearl Jam and then I will probably end up buying the Target version as well since there will be extra material. This time around though ordering it online makes it much easier for me seeing as my car is 1200 miles away and it costs money to take a cab somewhere just to go buy an album. So it is cheaper and more convenient to order it online. People will buy it wherever it is the most convenient for them.
Noblesville 6/22/2003 St. Louis 5/4/2010 East Troy 9/4/2011
Cleveland 5/20/2006 Columbus 5/6/2010 Chicago 7/19/2013
Cincinnatti 6/24/2006 Noblesville 5/7/2010. Buffalo 10/12/2013
Lollapalooza 8/5/2007 Mountain View 10/23/2010 Cincinnatti 10/1/2014
Washington D.C. 6/22/2008 Mountain View 10/24/2010 St. Louis 10/3/2014
Chicago 8/22/2008(EV Solo) St. Louis 7/1/2011 (EV Solo) St. Paul 10/19/2014
Kansas City 5/3/2010 East Troy 9/3/2011 Milwaukee 10/20/2014
Hampton 4/18/2016 Columbia 4/21/2016 Lexington 4/26/2016
NYC 5/2/2016
Jonah, after reading your article, I felt compelled to address a few points you made in your article about Pearl Jam "selling out". I was left a little dumbfounded as I finished because this band that I have listened to for the last 18 years has always stood up for what they felt was right, and always made decisions that would benefit the fans as much as them. As Eddie Vedder said in a recent interview, the Target deal met the bands "moral barometer". As you noted, this is a band that testified against Ticketmaster in Congress (fighting for the fans), has released almost every live show since 2000 at reasonable prices (for the fans), sends us Christmas gifts every year (sometimes in May or June, but hey, at least we get them). Not once did you give the band any credit for the Target deal as something good for the fans.
Not once did you mention that Pearl Jam acted as their own label on this album, bypassing their crappy record deals with large corporations like Sony that give the artist a meager % of record sales (abot $1.00 to $1.50 per album). Pearl Jam negotiated a hell of a deal with Target (after Target approached them, not vice versa) which will pay the band much more than any of the majors pay their artists (as you mentioned, this allows the band, you know, the ones that created this art, to be paid "wild sums" of money for their art...deservingly so).
As a fan club member for many years, I, along with all 50,000 plus members, were given the opportunity to pre-order the album from the bands website, bypassing the "exclusive" offer from Target (which is in no way exclusive....ALL independent record stores are allowed to sell this album, not "certain independent" record stores"). The Ten Club, for which the fan club is known, will always be taken care of by this band. Any offers to a company like Target will be far surpassed to the fan club members. Any "exclusive" downloads" that Target is offering are shows that have already been made available to fan club members, so their is no incentive to buy from Target.
For the casual fan, they still have 4 avenues to buy the album...the band's website, independent record stores, iTunes, or Target. And as a casual fan, they are being offered the chance to download 3 live shows for free!!! How is that selling out? Seems like they, again, have all the fans best interests in mind. Most albums are sold through the last two models. Would you rather have let Pearl Jam sell to ALL big box stores rather than sign an exclusive with Target? To me, THAT would be selling out!
In conclusion, after reading your last paragraph ("Do these new profit avenues signal a new artistic low") , it seems that you harbor some ill-will about the fact that a band like Pearl Jam may have lost some street cred amongst indie rockers, because they sell out stadiums and sell their music at Target, instead of staying small, and selling CD's out of a suitcase. Isn't that the end result of all great music, to get it out to the masses to be heard? Pearl Jam, in my book, succeeded wildly with this new deal, for themselves and for the fans. And as for uber-hip writers who gave up long ago on a band that writes "sun baked" spiritualistic songs and "long scorched dirges", well, as Eddie Vedder so loudly sings, "This is not for you".
Ok, that makes sense, but what loyal fans are willing to support their local independent music retailer? I see many loyals on here OK with Target yet also proclaim that PJ is decent enough to still let independent stores sell the new album. But no one's mentioned that they will actually support these stores on the forum...
I despise my local independent music store. I used to work there, and the fact that the store sold ACTUAL ILLEGAL BOOTLEGS (and at ridiculous mark-up as well) turned me off to them as a company. The best part was if anyone ever complained about the sound quality on the bootleg, they would get a full refund, no questions asked.
Pearl Jam IS selling the new album in smaller stores. That's a big reason why they went with Target as the big retailer. Shouldn't Target be praised for letting them do that instead of slammed? I bought "Yield" at Target back in 1998 and nobody was pissed off then. I know a lot of PJ fans have a delusional hatred of all corporations (I'm sure they post on the forums using their own home-built computers) but I see this as a great positive: the band is finally growing up and shedding some of their more self-righteous, naive tendencies. Hopefully now more people will hear more great rock music from a legendary band.
So this life is sacrifice...
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
I'm taking any negative press with a grain (or a pound) of salt.
Everything in the music business is experimental right now, and it's worth it to pay attention to the nuances as bands try to tweak the old ways to come up with some new ones. I don't really get what he's trying to say here. So "The Fixer" is a good, positive song and they shouldn't sell it through Target? Who cares?
I'll just slap Jonah Weiner with a "cranky little man" label and move on.
I agree with most of what you said...but I look at it this way, knowing the band's history and all that.... I see it as winning because they are finding ways to make it work with corporations to get what they, the band, want - not what the corporations want. The little guys getting what they want out of the deal, not the other way around.
I see that as winning, in my opinion, and they are also paving a path for other indies to follow to make it with their music while being independent... and like mentioned over and over, it's just a "retailer" to distribute their albums and still having small record businesses involved in the process.
It's not like they are going to kiss Target's CEOs' asses by attending private parties as a return of favor!
I was a bit shocked at first...but after a while it sank in and with more explanation in details from the management and the band, I understand and I am okay with that.
JA: Why do I get the Ticketmaster question?
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
Pearl Jam really needed to make the album available at a major store so that people who arent fans of the band have access to the new album. Most people dont go to indie record stores anymore. It is not selling out to do that. It is just smart. Do they want to continue to sell out their concerts or just become a band where there fanclub follows them around to their concerts and then ultimately see their fan base dwindle because their new stuff doesn't sound like Ten or Vs. anymore?
Ok, that makes sense, but what loyal fans are willing to support their local independent music retailer? I see many loyals on here OK with Target yet also proclaim that PJ is decent enough to still let independent stores sell the new album. But no one's mentioned that they will actually support these stores on the forum...
Im sure there will be some who go to a local store and buy it. There has to be a good reason to go buy it there. For me, the only independent music store around me, when the last record came out wasnt going to have it in stock so he was going to have to order it and I had him order it and he gave it to me the day before it was supposed to come out. So that really worked out for me. I like dealing with stores like that alot because you get alot better customer service. Plus they have alot of music that other stores do not have. This time around, I am buying it through Pearl Jam and then I will probably end up buying the Target version as well since there will be extra material. This time around though ordering it online makes it much easier for me seeing as my car is 1200 miles away and it costs money to take a cab somewhere just to go buy an album. So it is cheaper and more convenient to order it online. People will buy it wherever it is the most convenient for them.
The album is on itunes, that's the only retailer you really need anymore. If it's in some indie stores and a huge store like Target (that is virtually in every single major city in the USA) and on itunes AND available through the tenclub then what is the problem exactly? I think it's fantastic that the band made a deal where they can release their music how they want and get paid an honest amount for it instead of half the proceeds going to some nameless fat cat record executive who doesn't give a flying fuck about you, me or the band.
“May you live to be 100 and may the last voice you hear be mine.” - Frank Sinatra
Pearl Jam IS selling the new album in smaller stores. That's a big reason why they went with Target as the big retailer. Shouldn't Target be praised for letting them do that instead of slammed? I bought "Yield" at Target back in 1998 and nobody was pissed off then. I know a lot of PJ fans have a delusional hatred of all corporations (I'm sure they post on the forums using their own home-built computers) but I see this as a great positive: the band is finally growing up and shedding some of their more self-righteous, naive tendencies. Hopefully now more people will hear more great rock music from a legendary band.
I don't disagree with any of this and I'll happily drive to the nearest Target the moment I wake up on September 20th. But with that being said, when I heard that Guns N Roses and AC/DC's latest albums were exclusive to Wal-mart, I thought that was lame. So I can't just change my opinion now that it's Pearl Jam. And for me, it's not a "Wal-mart is evil" or "Corporations suck" sort of thing, but what if you don't live anywhere near a Target? I'm sure there's a Pearl Jam fan somewhere in Bubblefuck, Idaho who's going to have make a long trek to buy the album.
Pearl Jam IS selling the new album in smaller stores. That's a big reason why they went with Target as the big retailer. Shouldn't Target be praised for letting them do that instead of slammed? I bought "Yield" at Target back in 1998 and nobody was pissed off then. I know a lot of PJ fans have a delusional hatred of all corporations (I'm sure they post on the forums using their own home-built computers) but I see this as a great positive: the band is finally growing up and shedding some of their more self-righteous, naive tendencies. Hopefully now more people will hear more great rock music from a legendary band.
I don't disagree with any of this and I'll happily drive to the nearest Target the moment I wake up on September 20th. But with that being said, when I heard that Guns N Roses and AC/DC's latest albums were exclusive to Wal-mart, I thought that was lame. So I can't just change my opinion now that it's Pearl Jam. And for me, it's not a "Wal-mart is evil" or "Corporations suck" sort of thing, but what if you don't live anywhere near a Target? I'm sure there's a Pearl Jam fan somewhere in Bubblefuck, Idaho who's going to have make a long trek to buy the album.
Pearl Jam IS selling the new album in smaller stores. That's a big reason why they went with Target as the big retailer. Shouldn't Target be praised for letting them do that instead of slammed? I bought "Yield" at Target back in 1998 and nobody was pissed off then. I know a lot of PJ fans have a delusional hatred of all corporations (I'm sure they post on the forums using their own home-built computers) but I see this as a great positive: the band is finally growing up and shedding some of their more self-righteous, naive tendencies. Hopefully now more people will hear more great rock music from a legendary band.
I don't disagree with any of this and I'll happily drive to the nearest Target the moment I wake up on September 20th. But with that being said, when I heard that Guns N Roses and AC/DC's latest albums were exclusive to Wal-mart, I thought that was lame. So I can't just change my opinion now that it's Pearl Jam. And for me, it's not a "Wal-mart is evil" or "Corporations suck" sort of thing, but what if you don't live anywhere near a Target? I'm sure there's a Pearl Jam fan somewhere in Bubblefuck, Idaho who's going to have make a long trek to buy the album.
Just a minor adjustment to your statement there. The Guns N Roses album was exclusive to Best Buy, not Wal-Mart.
Comments
Cleveland 5/20/2006 Columbus 5/6/2010 Chicago 7/19/2013
Cincinnatti 6/24/2006 Noblesville 5/7/2010. Buffalo 10/12/2013
Lollapalooza 8/5/2007 Mountain View 10/23/2010 Cincinnatti 10/1/2014
Washington D.C. 6/22/2008 Mountain View 10/24/2010 St. Louis 10/3/2014
Chicago 8/22/2008(EV Solo) St. Louis 7/1/2011 (EV Solo) St. Paul 10/19/2014
Kansas City 5/3/2010 East Troy 9/3/2011 Milwaukee 10/20/2014
Hampton 4/18/2016 Columbia 4/21/2016 Lexington 4/26/2016
NYC 5/2/2016
Jonah, after reading your article, I felt compelled to address a few points you made in your article about Pearl Jam "selling out". I was left a little dumbfounded as I finished because this band that I have listened to for the last 18 years has always stood up for what they felt was right, and always made decisions that would benefit the fans as much as them. As Eddie Vedder said in a recent interview, the Target deal met the bands "moral barometer". As you noted, this is a band that testified against Ticketmaster in Congress (fighting for the fans), has released almost every live show since 2000 at reasonable prices (for the fans), sends us Christmas gifts every year (sometimes in May or June, but hey, at least we get them). Not once did you give the band any credit for the Target deal as something good for the fans.
Not once did you mention that Pearl Jam acted as their own label on this album, bypassing their crappy record deals with large corporations like Sony that give the artist a meager % of record sales (abot $1.00 to $1.50 per album). Pearl Jam negotiated a hell of a deal with Target (after Target approached them, not vice versa) which will pay the band much more than any of the majors pay their artists (as you mentioned, this allows the band, you know, the ones that created this art, to be paid "wild sums" of money for their art...deservingly so).
As a fan club member for many years, I, along with all 50,000 plus members, were given the opportunity to pre-order the album from the bands website, bypassing the "exclusive" offer from Target (which is in no way exclusive....ALL independent record stores are allowed to sell this album, not "certain independent" record stores"). The Ten Club, for which the fan club is known, will always be taken care of by this band. Any offers to a company like Target will be far surpassed to the fan club members. Any "exclusive" downloads" that Target is offering are shows that have already been made available to fan club members, so their is no incentive to buy from Target.
For the casual fan, they still have 4 avenues to buy the album...the band's website, independent record stores, iTunes, or Target. And as a casual fan, they are being offered the chance to download 3 live shows for free!!! How is that selling out? Seems like they, again, have all the fans best interests in mind. Most albums are sold through the last two models. Would you rather have let Pearl Jam sell to ALL big box stores rather than sign an exclusive with Target? To me, THAT would be selling out!
In conclusion, after reading your last paragraph ("Do these new profit avenues signal a new artistic low") , it seems that you harbor some ill-will about the fact that a band like Pearl Jam may have lost some street cred amongst indie rockers, because they sell out stadiums and sell their music at Target, instead of staying small, and selling CD's out of a suitcase. Isn't that the end result of all great music, to get it out to the masses to be heard? Pearl Jam, in my book, succeeded wildly with this new deal, for themselves and for the fans. And as for uber-hip writers who gave up long ago on a band that writes "sun baked" spiritualistic songs and "long scorched dirges", well, as Eddie Vedder so loudly sings, "This is not for you".
Peace.
EV
4/16/92 ; 7/22/92 ; 9/20/92 ; 12/7/93 ; 6/7/95 ; 9/14/96 ; 9/16/96 ; 9/1/98 ; 11/2/00 ; 10/22/01 ; 12/6/02 ; 12/8/02 ; 5/30/03 ; 7/6/03 ; 7/8/03 ; 7/9/03 ; 10/22/03 ; 11/24/03 ; 9/1/05 ; 9/2/05 ; 7/9/06 ; 7/10/06 ; 7/22/06 ; 7/23/06 ; 8/22/2009 ; 8/23/2009 ; 9/21/2009 ; 9/22/2009 ; 9/3/2011 ; 9/4/2011
I despise my local independent music store. I used to work there, and the fact that the store sold ACTUAL ILLEGAL BOOTLEGS (and at ridiculous mark-up as well) turned me off to them as a company. The best part was if anyone ever complained about the sound quality on the bootleg, they would get a full refund, no questions asked.
YEAH.
Pearl Jam IS selling the new album in smaller stores. That's a big reason why they went with Target as the big retailer. Shouldn't Target be praised for letting them do that instead of slammed? I bought "Yield" at Target back in 1998 and nobody was pissed off then. I know a lot of PJ fans have a delusional hatred of all corporations (I'm sure they post on the forums using their own home-built computers) but I see this as a great positive: the band is finally growing up and shedding some of their more self-righteous, naive tendencies. Hopefully now more people will hear more great rock music from a legendary band.
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
I agree with most of what you said...but I look at it this way, knowing the band's history and all that.... I see it as winning because they are finding ways to make it work with corporations to get what they, the band, want - not what the corporations want. The little guys getting what they want out of the deal, not the other way around.
I see that as winning, in my opinion, and they are also paving a path for other indies to follow to make it with their music while being independent... and like mentioned over and over, it's just a "retailer" to distribute their albums and still having small record businesses involved in the process.
It's not like they are going to kiss Target's CEOs' asses by attending private parties as a return of favor!
I was a bit shocked at first...but after a while it sank in and with more explanation in details from the management and the band, I understand and I am okay with that.
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
The album is on itunes, that's the only retailer you really need anymore. If it's in some indie stores and a huge store like Target (that is virtually in every single major city in the USA) and on itunes AND available through the tenclub then what is the problem exactly? I think it's fantastic that the band made a deal where they can release their music how they want and get paid an honest amount for it instead of half the proceeds going to some nameless fat cat record executive who doesn't give a flying fuck about you, me or the band.
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
I don't disagree with any of this and I'll happily drive to the nearest Target the moment I wake up on September 20th. But with that being said, when I heard that Guns N Roses and AC/DC's latest albums were exclusive to Wal-mart, I thought that was lame. So I can't just change my opinion now that it's Pearl Jam. And for me, it's not a "Wal-mart is evil" or "Corporations suck" sort of thing, but what if you don't live anywhere near a Target? I'm sure there's a Pearl Jam fan somewhere in Bubblefuck, Idaho who's going to have make a long trek to buy the album.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
or just order it on amazon.com. or 10c!
Just a minor adjustment to your statement there. The Guns N Roses album was exclusive to Best Buy, not Wal-Mart.