Instead of people saying just "wars," can i have examples of wars that were fought because of religion?
i will have to check my facts and get back to you on that one, i remember reading an example in a book i read last year by Christopher Hitchens (God is not great, was the title). could we claim a war of the mind, because how else could you belive creationism/intelegant design? if you where not so brainwashed by religous doctorunie and unwilling to look at the facts against it.
Christopher Hitchens is an idiot and I don't believe in intelligent design. you can believe in both evolution and a God. But i'll wait till you think of some wars that were fought because of religion.
...So... yes... I don't think we need religon of any sort to know it is wrong to kill or take what does not belong to us. We only need to be Human.
how? when evolution and natural selection teaches us things like survival of the fittest, it does not appear to me that mortality even exists without religion. In fact, I believe the only reason most people who don't follow religion don't kill is because of the consequences they would face. however, if we were living in a state of nature where we are not bound by laws created by men, I believe that stealing and killing would obviously play a very big role in most people's lives.
edit: and that's just the wrong actions. even those who are virtuous have no real incentive to be generous or anything other than pure self-interest, hoping that such a favor will be returned to you.
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We are no longer fighting over breeding rights, so that 'evolutionary' trait of survival of the fittest you speak of does not hold true.
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Maybe those rules you speak of apply in your life... but, not mine. I don't kill because the only certainty i know of is this is the only shot at life we know of... no one knows if there is an after life or reincarnation, those are beliefs and hopes. I'm am not ending my, or anyone else's life because of that. And because California State Penal Code calls up to the Death Penalty for murder... and I do know I do not want to be in prison. Man's Law... not religion. If you will kill me if there were no consequences... that's on you... not me. I would not kill... even if there were no laws preventing it... hell, i even catch spiders in my house and relocate them outdoors.
And your comment about generosity and charity... sorry... I do things not because I expect anything in return... rather, because it is the right thing to do... according to MY moral compass... that I did not get from religion. I don't expect, nor want, any rewards or accolades.
If anything... religious people **MAY** be guilty of what you are saying... being good in order to get a ticket to Heaven instead of a ride on the down escalator. It can be argued that they have a condition tied to their 'good' behaviour... the reward of Heaven. I don't believe in Heaven or Hell so I do things in this life because they are what my humanity tells me is right... not a religion... not a preacher... not a book.
And if I'm wrong and there is a judgement... I believe that God and Jesus are more benevolent than judgemental and give me a break for being human and imperfect and having all of these unanswered questions. If not, then... send me to Hell with my disappointment that Jerry Falwell was right... God and Jesus are narcisstic, judgemental a-holes.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
_outlaw I have not seen or read much of Christopher Hitchens work but I will agree with you on the point that he may be an idiot, as the book basically in my view was a poorer version of the god delusion by dawkins. My point though is he gives reference to a war that was basically one religion vs another that was recent (could not find my copy last night to find the reference). As for the belief in religion means you must belive in intelegent design, i miss wrote what the point i was trying to make. How can someone who does not belive in a god belive in intellegent design/creationism, as the current evidence out their indicates that we evolved into what we are today.
cosmo I must say awesome post and I must agree. I myself dont like donating to certain charites due to the influence of religion, but will donate to charites that I belive in when I can. but the question you must ask would these people be the same without their religion to guide them?
Rod Laver Arena - Feb 18, 2003
Rod Laver Arena - Nov 13, 2006
Adelaide Oval - Nov 17, 2009
Etihad Stadium - Nov 20, 2009
BDO Melbourne - Jan 24, 2014
New York - May 02 - 2016
_outlaw I have not seen or read much of Christopher Hitchens work but I will agree with you on the point that he may be an idiot, as the book basically in my view was a poorer version of the god delusion by dawkins. My point though is he gives reference to a war that was basically one religion vs another that was recent (could not find my copy last night to find the reference). As for the belief in religion means you must belive in intelegent design, i miss wrote what the point i was trying to make. How can someone who does not belive in a god belive in intellegent design/creationism, as the current evidence out their indicates that we evolved into what we are today.
cosmo I must say awesome post and I must agree. I myself dont like donating to certain charites due to the influence of religion, but will donate to charites that I belive in when I can. but the question you must ask would these people be the same without their religion to guide them?
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Thanx.
I reject the claim that morality comes from religion... using the logic that religion (i.e. Christianity) comes from the Bible and the Bible states such thing as 'Thou shalt No Kill'. 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' existed long before the Bible... including the Old Testament. It was a law of Neolithic Man at the beginning of Civil Order.
We get our morality from ourselves. Granted by God? I have no idea... but, i know a lot of Aetheists that seem to follow Jesus Christ's model of forgiveness, tolerance and charity more than people who claim to be part of the Church in His name.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Comments
We are no longer fighting over breeding rights, so that 'evolutionary' trait of survival of the fittest you speak of does not hold true.
...
Maybe those rules you speak of apply in your life... but, not mine. I don't kill because the only certainty i know of is this is the only shot at life we know of... no one knows if there is an after life or reincarnation, those are beliefs and hopes. I'm am not ending my, or anyone else's life because of that. And because California State Penal Code calls up to the Death Penalty for murder... and I do know I do not want to be in prison. Man's Law... not religion. If you will kill me if there were no consequences... that's on you... not me. I would not kill... even if there were no laws preventing it... hell, i even catch spiders in my house and relocate them outdoors.
And your comment about generosity and charity... sorry... I do things not because I expect anything in return... rather, because it is the right thing to do... according to MY moral compass... that I did not get from religion. I don't expect, nor want, any rewards or accolades.
If anything... religious people **MAY** be guilty of what you are saying... being good in order to get a ticket to Heaven instead of a ride on the down escalator. It can be argued that they have a condition tied to their 'good' behaviour... the reward of Heaven. I don't believe in Heaven or Hell so I do things in this life because they are what my humanity tells me is right... not a religion... not a preacher... not a book.
And if I'm wrong and there is a judgement... I believe that God and Jesus are more benevolent than judgemental and give me a break for being human and imperfect and having all of these unanswered questions. If not, then... send me to Hell with my disappointment that Jerry Falwell was right... God and Jesus are narcisstic, judgemental a-holes.
Hail, Hail!!!
cosmo I must say awesome post and I must agree. I myself dont like donating to certain charites due to the influence of religion, but will donate to charites that I belive in when I can. but the question you must ask would these people be the same without their religion to guide them?
Rod Laver Arena - Nov 13, 2006
Adelaide Oval - Nov 17, 2009
Etihad Stadium - Nov 20, 2009
BDO Melbourne - Jan 24, 2014
New York - May 02 - 2016
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Thanx.
I reject the claim that morality comes from religion... using the logic that religion (i.e. Christianity) comes from the Bible and the Bible states such thing as 'Thou shalt No Kill'. 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' existed long before the Bible... including the Old Testament. It was a law of Neolithic Man at the beginning of Civil Order.
We get our morality from ourselves. Granted by God? I have no idea... but, i know a lot of Aetheists that seem to follow Jesus Christ's model of forgiveness, tolerance and charity more than people who claim to be part of the Church in His name.
Hail, Hail!!!