Illegal downloading.......
facepollution
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Let's try and keep this more civilised than the threads that just got locked on The Porch.....
There's a very simple way to prevent leaks, and that is to digitally release it and then follw it up with a physical release a couple of weeks later. Give it to everyone at the same time, including the press etc.
Unfortunately, you would still get those people that NEVER pay for records, downloading it through illegal means. Those people you can't stop, yeah they might be arse-holes, but they couldn't care less what you or I think. This is what I loved about Trent Reznor's approach to the situation when it came to releasing Ghosts and The Slip - hell, he gave away The Slip, and still made some serious cash from the physical release. I know people will then argue that only established bands can get away with doing this, but then I doubt the smaller bands who are just starting out, are having their music illegally downloaded on the same scale anyway. Nowadays, any smart band or record label knows that the real money is to be made in touring and other merchandise - the music itself has become less of a product, and more of a marketing tool.
Thoughts?
There's a very simple way to prevent leaks, and that is to digitally release it and then follw it up with a physical release a couple of weeks later. Give it to everyone at the same time, including the press etc.
Unfortunately, you would still get those people that NEVER pay for records, downloading it through illegal means. Those people you can't stop, yeah they might be arse-holes, but they couldn't care less what you or I think. This is what I loved about Trent Reznor's approach to the situation when it came to releasing Ghosts and The Slip - hell, he gave away The Slip, and still made some serious cash from the physical release. I know people will then argue that only established bands can get away with doing this, but then I doubt the smaller bands who are just starting out, are having their music illegally downloaded on the same scale anyway. Nowadays, any smart band or record label knows that the real money is to be made in touring and other merchandise - the music itself has become less of a product, and more of a marketing tool.
Thoughts?
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I with you on this one. but until their are better ways of getting content out digitally (legally) I think there will be no way of stopping illegal downloading of content.
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As with the new PJ album, I've already pre-ordered the CD from Ten Club and the vinyl from an indy...so I have no problem with listening to it when it leaks. Some agree...some disagree.
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I see nothing wrong with this at all. It's already paid for.
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"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
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i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Ultimately its a losing a battle to try and combat illegally downloading though. In the past few years there have been two of the most serious antiillegal downloading cases we have ever seen brought to court, one where a mother of four was ordered to pay 1.6 million i believe for 22 songs. Another was a woman with comparable amounts of downloaded songs, and was ordered to pay 220,000. Those cases havent stopped people from downloading. Nothing will.
I think our generation believes that paying 18 plus for a cd, is too steep a price to pay. And that the risk of being caught, fined, jailed or labeled a "criminal" is worth it.
The In Rainbows thing was interesting. While most people paid nothing, radiohead indeed made more money off of this gamble than they would have had they been under a label contract at the time.
I have brought this point up before but people seem extremely ignorant of it: if you are an up and coming band it is crazy to assume you are going to be making alot of, or any money off cd sales. From my point of view, as an unknown band it would make sense to intentionally put your music out for free on your website and on file sharing sites and on you tube. You get exposure that way. And that same band should put extra care into the merchendising and touring aspects of your band. Make sure you live shows are up to snuff and that you have a ton of merchendise, everything from key chains to stickers to posters etc...
The whole thing that gets my goat about the issue, is that those who are against illegal downloading seem to think that there is a way to get people to stop downloading. I just dont think thats a reality.
Just as in the case of the record labels and how they completely blew it, by not working out some deal with Napster in the very beginning of all this, people like Lars Ulrich and the anti downloading group would have been better served going out there and talking to Napster and the Torrent sites and trying to work with them.
Its all in how you look at it. Is file sharing cutting into the profits of bands, sure. But what can realistically be done about it? Why worry about something that isnt controllable. Like when Jack White was pissed at that radio dj for playing Icky Thump. The albums gonna leak, you are in one of the biggest bands in the world, why fight it?
Look at how Jay-Z reacted to Blueprint 3 leaking, and you see the way artists should react to all this. He took it in stride, said he was proud of his work, and that he hoped people enjoyed it.
You seem to marginalize those who illegally download. You say "you would still get those who NEVER pay for records" as if its just a splinter and small group. I dont know that this is correct. People can talk about hoping people buy physical releases all the time, but the fact of the matter is millions of people illegally download, and I would wager, the people who illegally download far outnumber those who buy physical albums. This obviously wasnt the case when Napster hit, but I think over the years the number of downloaders has steadily increased while the number of people buying physical albums has decreased.
People do it, there's no way tostop it.. Should we say the same about regular theft? Should stores make a deal with thieves? You seem to think that just because a lot of people do it, it's ok.. Quite frankly, thats ignorant.
i don;t think he is saying that. what he is saying is that considering teh lack of money that bands make from celling cd as compared to concerts. a band should not care about selling cd. a smart band wants peopel to listen to their music so that they go out and pay $60 for concert tickerts and $40 for a t-shirt. the band makes more money. that is not the as "regular" theft as both the maker and seller are not making money
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I was just trying to appease the more 'intense' members of the board! I'd call someone an arse-hole for a lot less
Then Pearl Jam owes me a ton of $$$$$$$$ back!!!!!!!!!!
Intentionally giving something of yours away is one thing...someone taking it from you when you didn;t want to give it away for free is quite another matter.
by the way, Radiohead released a new song on their site, no plans for an album, though Thom York is putting out a single (not of what was released)
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
For a start, I would say about 95% of the leaks I download actually come from rapidshare, megaupload, sendspace etc links, rather than torrent sites - which kind of takes care of the 'but you're sharing with loads of people who might not buy it' argument that goes along with torrents.
Personally speaking, as much as I like owning an album, and I really am the type to go out and buy it if I like it; music for me is more about my emotional connection (ok I hate to get all cliched and sappy, but it's true!). Being able to find the perfect song at two in the morning when I'm all miserable and depressed over some crap that's going on in my life, is far more important than owning all the limited super-special versions of a record, to me. It's this same thing that makes me love going to gigs - nothing beats that connection you make to the music when it's played live. I've gotten countless friends into certain bands by burning them cds. I've taken around fifteen of my mates to see one band in particular after buring them a compilation of their songs - a few of them ended up buying merch too.
Like I said before, recorded music at this point is more useful as a promotional tool than it is as a product. If you want to sell it as a product, you need to do what bands like Pearl Jam and NIN have done, and work on ways to give the consumer more bang for their buck.
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