Whose Read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn?

BhagavadGitaBhagavadGita Posts: 1,748
edited August 2009 in A Moving Train
Anybody else read this extraordinary book?

So, do you think our culture is killing us?
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    yes, it is a great book!

    and of course, we have a culture of waste, consumerism and now, now, now (obviously there are more things to our culture and positives) but overall it's just insanely wasteful and destructive towards our health and our sustainability.

    and network news is mostly distractions and celebrity gossip. at my last job they had CNN on in the break room and i would think really, this is 'headline' news?? surely something more is going on?
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • CorsoCorso so poor I can't afford to comment on the PJ forum Posts: 201
    It has been 15 years since I read this book. At the time I thought it was profound and still do made me think of civilization in a different way. Sometime after reading Ishmael I picked up The Story of B by Quinn which also made me re-evaluate my worldview. Have not read the final book though. Is our culture killing us? It could be debated but I am sure there most be another right way to live. A better way.
  • Life changing book. I remember in college, i sat next to a girl who said she considered framing this book, in her house. Makes complete sense to me.

    I pretty much agree with this book and all its saying.

    Basically the premise, in my mind, is that Quinn is suggesting that the problem isnt just a few laws, or a few leader or the system so to speak. Its the entire civilization. I concur. I consider myself a radical communist anarchist. In the anarchist vein of anarcho primitivism, which seeks to return the world back to the days of hunting and gathering. Thats what the book is suggesting and its what I think needs to be done.

    Ultimately I think one must come to the conclusion, Obama or Bush, its the same. Reforming a few archaic and ridiculous laws, "oh if we only changed this law our world would be better".

    Its the entire civilization and way of life that needs to be fundamentally dismantled and detroyed.

    Another author whose books are life changers and are in agreement about what needs to be done to change the world, would be Derrick Jensen, who the band likes, according to their website. His books, are in the same style. He suggests, voting doesnt do diddly squat, chaging a few laws is meaningless, what needs to be done is to return to gathering and hunting.
  • While you pose a great question and I think Quinn would be glad his book even now, this long after first being published still sparks debate, but your question of is our culture killing us, in many ways is sort of juvenile, and I am not meaning to put you down.

    What I mean to say is, its a pretty self evident thing.

    You've got two camps of people. One, who think we can continue to build roads houses, highways, malls, stores, continue cutting down forests, continue emitting toxins into the airs, continue to kill off the salmon, continue to do nothing as the polar ice caps melt, and global warming takes place, continue building and using bombs and guns etc...

    Or

    you think our way of life, our culture, our society and our civilization are killing us

    For me, its a no brainer.

    90 percent of large ocean fish are gone. Every single body of water (stream, leak, ocean) is polluted. Every mothers breast milk is contaminated. And our water supply, even leaving out the flouride, is contaminated with drugs, perscription drugs that have been flushed down the toilet.

    So, I turn the question back to the OP. Is our culture and civilization killing us?
  • I think what I love about Quinn and Derrick Jensen is they are "outside the box" thinkers. They dont just say "lets go and get this one law changed and we all can feel good about ourselves", or "once the war ends everything will be perfect" or "once obama is elected we can breathe again".

    Both these authors and activists critique our culture and world, but also us as people in how we go about solving the problems.

    How do we solve global warming? Both these authors would suggest the solution to it, is NOT by recycling, or by buying less, or even buying a hybrid.

    They suggest, a fundamentally altered way of looking at the world and of dealing with issues.

    Both authors, especially Jensen have been outright blunt in suggesting, that armed struggle needs to occur.

    Jensen also has great counter Obama ideas. Even before Obama came to power Jensen talked about hope. The idea of hope. He said it is dangerous because to "hope for something to happen" you have resigned yourself to the fact you cant control the outcome. "I hope this plane doesnt crash while I am on it", "I hope my ten club seats are decent" "I hope my parents left me some money for pizza before they left on their vacation".

    He suggests that when it comes to issues of saving the salmon, or ending war, or ending racism, that one has to just do it. "I will do everything in my power to ensure salmon are around for my grandchildren in 40 years"

    Quinn no doubt would agree with this statement
  • BhagavadGitaBhagavadGita Posts: 1,748
    I like to buy copies of Ishmael and leave them in bus stations and on benches......

    ..it seems sometimes when one starts to talk about our culture and our consumption etc...there are still those that think we are the end of evolution and have no clue what this all means. I hate to admit it, but my whole family have their heads buried in the sand. So many people don't want to hear that their lifestyle can't last, as we use resources and overpopulate the planet. I live near a port and I think of all the crap that is made that we don't need as humans...container after container of stuff and more stuff.

    It has really had an effect on me and my dog, strangely enough. I see him as Ishmael sometimes and feel for him, being captive. I wish we could speak to animals. They would have much to teach us.

    I don't have the answer, but I do agree the only way the human race will survive is if we go back to the hunter gatherer way of life or something similar....Maybe that's not possible, I don't know.
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