so if michael vick...
fuck
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had tortured humans instead of dogs, would that mean that he would not have been punished and obama and holder would ask us not to look back?
Edit: well, I thought my original point was obvious but since it isn't so obvious to some people I'm gonna spell it out:
It's a criticism of the Obama administration for not punishing the Bush administration for torture. And yet people are sitting here saying Vick wasn't punished enough or doesn't deserve another chance for torturing dogs. Yeah, I, and anyone with a fucking brain, knows that it isn't a perfect analogy, but that's kinda the point. I think torturing is wrong no matter what, whether done for war or anything, so there's no argument around that. Obama and Holder said not to look backwards about the torture crimes committed by the Bush administration. So, I wonder if Vick tortured humans, would they say the same thing?
Edit: well, I thought my original point was obvious but since it isn't so obvious to some people I'm gonna spell it out:
It's a criticism of the Obama administration for not punishing the Bush administration for torture. And yet people are sitting here saying Vick wasn't punished enough or doesn't deserve another chance for torturing dogs. Yeah, I, and anyone with a fucking brain, knows that it isn't a perfect analogy, but that's kinda the point. I think torturing is wrong no matter what, whether done for war or anything, so there's no argument around that. Obama and Holder said not to look backwards about the torture crimes committed by the Bush administration. So, I wonder if Vick tortured humans, would they say the same thing?
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Hail, Hail!!!
How so? The only comparisons i can see are these:
1. Both are men.
2. Both are black.
2. Both are on T.V.
Why not compare Michael Vick to Randy Whatziname on American Idol? They both fit the same criteria.
Or how about you compare Barack Obama to Stan from 'The Office'?
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Michael Vick's situation has nothing remotely related to C.I.A. interrorgations in Cuba.
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There are legitimate greivences I can see people bringing up with President Obama that can be debated with viable, fact based points. This is not even close to being one.
Hail, Hail!!!
And they’re talking about looking into it. maybe they’ll investigate. It’s not a closed book yet.
I was assuming how the crazy world we live in would behave in that scenario.
Nice how you open with this one really lame sentence...
"Had tortured humans instead of dogs, would that mean that he would not have been punished and obama and holder would ask us not to look back?"
Then, come back and add an explanation later.
Given that first sentence, as a stand alone, is moronic, at best. Also, If you are trying to attribute to another author.. a reference would have done you good.
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Now... that you have clarified it...
It STILL does not equate.
Obama is supposed to represent the justice system in the Vick case... or is Vick was the C.I.A.... or what?
The only way to legitiimize the poorly constructed analogy would be if Michael Vick were in a position of authority... such as a police chief of a superior court justice who had the ability to warp the justice system in favor of his doing... even then, it's a stretch.
I understand the underlying point the author is trying to make... Obama not prosecuting Bush for war crimes... blah, blah, blah.. but trying to work in the Michael Vick reference? The 2 do not equate, no matter how hard you spin it.
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Finally... if you are going to use other people's analogies... give them credit for it and reference them as the authors.
Hail, Hail!!!
lol ok, first of all, are you saying the Bush admin are in a position to warp the justice system? Ok, maybe they are (partially), but that does not mean that the Obama administration does not have the power to prosecute. They simply chose not to. secondly, obviously it's not a completely serious analogy, we're not taking the fucking SATs, you're reading into this more than you should. the point was simply a criticism of the Obama administration for coming up with their weak ass "let's not look backwards" bullshit about torture. you seem to have missed it and came up with a whole "why are you comparing 2 random black people?" which never made sense. I did, or did you forget my post? It's a fucking pearl jam message board, not a dissertation.
Hey... You started this thing with that one lame sentence... then we went back and edited after I had responded.
And YES the Bush Administration DID warp the system of Authority that allowed him to get away with all of that crap. That whole Patriot Act allowed for this kind of shit. And should the Obama Administration look into this? Yes... and they are. They are looking into C.I.A. procedures to see if any laws were broken. That's what has blowhards like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity all in an uproar over.
But, it is all about priorities. The fucked up economy, the War in Afghanistan, the War in Iraq, the Health Care debate and going after the Bush Administration over Guantanamo. List the priorities as you see them and weigh them against others and see where it takes you. My guess is the Economy and Health Care top the priority list. Is it correct? Who knows... it all depends where you stand.
Hail, Hail!!!
it's whole other ball game if you're talking about war.
and u know this how?
actually, there have been cases where we grabbed innocent people and tortured them. there's even a documentary about a guy who was kidnapped, held prisoner and tortured then let go because he was innocent in the special features of the film 'rendition'
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
It's a shame that these sentiments end up representing the whole country. I guess that's what happens when you have a retarded redneck as your figurehead for 8 years though.
Whatever dude! You know we waterboarded someone over 100 times. Is that real torture? It's not like we were ripping off fingernails and shit like that. For fuck sakes man, we poured water over somebodies face and saved alot of American lives by doing so, and now all these liberal friggin tree huggers that think theres going to be pure love, peace , and happiness in the world someday. It wont ever happen dude because there are people in this world that don't give a shit. Always has been, always will be. And no matter how you look at it, its going to take extreme measures to keep parts of this world safe.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
all you guys are doing right now is justifying torture, as if it's ok to do it "for war" (whatever the fuck that even means). Personally, I think, no matter what, torture is wrong.
"If you fucking beat this prick long enough, he'll tell you he started the goddamn Chicago fire, now that don't necessarily make it fucking so."
those people that did the waterboarding should be tried, but also the people that ordered the torture should be tried as well. this is not 24, and you are not jack bauer. as an american i hold my country to a higher standard, and that standard is that we do not torture and we honor the geneva convention and we treat prisoners humanely. people who believe like you are the reason that the US has lost the moral high ground in this debate.
lastly, you really told me when you told me to leave my country. good argument. what is this 2003? i will debate you when you come up with some new material.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
i do support my country, but i'm not going to sit back and say nothing when i feel that our ideals or principles have been betrayed and, i am not afraid to speak out in defense of them. I do get very tired of the insinuation that we should shut up and support our country at any cost.
i was going to reply to this in detail, but rather than go off topic, i'll post a link to a thread we had about it a few months ago. lots of us have already posted our thoughts in here and you may be interested to read some of them.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=99258
lol i have always wanted to say that, but for fear of sounding like a 3rd grader i have always bit my tongue. i agree with TA completely. although today it is hard to tell exactly what our ideals and principles are after 8 years of the bush crime family running things.
but to get back on topic, vick did not torture people in a war effort. he tortured defenseless animals. it was cold and calculated. in my opinion torturing people and animals are on the same level, they all are sentient beings. if anyone on here has ever taken a philosophy/ethics class they should understand that.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
It's not living in fear but living under the realization that it can and probably will happen again. Do you really think that if we do nothing the Taliban will just go away? I don't.