so if michael vick...

fuck

had tortured humans instead of dogs, would that mean that he would not have been punished and obama and holder would ask us not to look back?

Edit: well, I thought my original point was obvious but since it isn't so obvious to some people I'm gonna spell it out:

It's a criticism of the Obama administration for not punishing the Bush administration for torture. And yet people are sitting here saying Vick wasn't punished enough or doesn't deserve another chance for torturing dogs. Yeah, I, and anyone with a fucking brain, knows that it isn't a perfect analogy, but that's kinda the point. I think torturing is wrong no matter what, whether done for war or anything, so there's no argument around that. Obama and Holder said not to look backwards about the torture crimes committed by the Bush administration. So, I wonder if Vick tortured humans, would they say the same thing?

Cosmo

One of the dumbest posts... ever.

inmytree

I heard vick bought a new car through cash for clunkers and he is a member of Obama's death panels...

fuck

Cosmo wrote:

One of the dumbest posts... ever.

It was actually a quote from David Swanson and although it's obviously only half-serious, I think it's a very legitimate point

Cosmo

_outlaw wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

One of the dumbest posts... ever.

It was actually a quote from David Swanson and although it's obviously only half-serious, I think it's a very legitimate point

...
How so? The only comparisons i can see are these:
1. Both are men.
2. Both are black.
2. Both are on T.V.
Why not compare Michael Vick to Randy Whatziname on American Idol? They both fit the same criteria.
Or how about you compare Barack Obama to Stan from 'The Office'?
...
Michael Vick's situation has nothing remotely related to C.I.A. interrorgations in Cuba.
...
There are legitimate greivences I can see people bringing up with President Obama that can be debated with viable, fact based points. This is not even close to being one.

fuck

Cosmo wrote:

_outlaw wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

One of the dumbest posts... ever.

It was actually a quote from David Swanson and although it's obviously only half-serious, I think it's a very legitimate point

...
How so? The only comparisons i can see are these:
1. Both are men.
2. Both are black.
2. Both are on T.V.
Why not compare Michael Vick to Randy Whatziname on American Idol? They both fit the same criteria.
Or how about you compare Barack Obama to Stan from 'The Office'?

what the hell are you talking about? how am I comparing people? I'm not. You've clearly misunderstood the sentence.

...
Michael Vick's situation has nothing remotely related to C.I.A. interrorgations in Cuba.
...
There are legitimate greivences I can see people bringing up with President Obama that can be debated with viable, fact based points. This is not even close to being one.

I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about. There is a legitimate grievance people bring up with President Obama about "not looking back" when it comes to the crimes of torture committed by the Bush administration. David Swanson, half-seriously, says that maybe if Vick had tortured humans instead of dogs he wouldn't be punished, similar to how the Bush administration tortured humans and were not punished. How more obvious does it need to be put? I don't even know how you interpreted it but like I said before, this is a very legitimate point.

blondieblue227

Vick didn’t do it for war. I’m sure there were people at the time that okayed torture because they thought it was the only way to protect the country. So to them it’s justified. So I’m gonna say something crazy: If Vick tortured dogs in behalf of a war cause I don’t think he’d be punished. Let’s say they were talking dogs or something.

And they’re talking about looking into it. maybe they’ll investigate. It’s not a closed book yet.

fuck

blondieblue227 wrote:

Vick didn’t do it for war. I’m sure there were people at the time that okayed torture because they thought it was the only way to protect the country. So to them it’s justified. So I’m gonna say something crazy: If Vick tortured dogs in behalf of a war cause I don’t think he’d be punished. Let’s say they were talking dogs or something.

And they’re talking about looking into it. maybe they’ll investigate. It’s not a closed book yet.

does that mean that it's ok to torture sometimes? and if so, when? I know you said "war cause" but how far into a war do you decide that it's ok to torture? and who can you torture?

blondieblue227

I didn’t say rather if I thought it was ok or not.
I was assuming how the crazy world we live in would behave in that scenario.

Cosmo

_outlaw wrote:

I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about. There is a legitimate grievance people bring up with President Obama about "not looking back" when it comes to the crimes of torture committed by the Bush administration. David Swanson, half-seriously, says that maybe if Vick had tortured humans instead of dogs he wouldn't be punished, similar to how the Bush administration tortured humans and were not punished. How more obvious does it need to be put? I don't even know how you interpreted it but like I said before, this is a very legitimate point.

...
Nice how you open with this one really lame sentence...
"Had tortured humans instead of dogs, would that mean that he would not have been punished and obama and holder would ask us not to look back?"
Then, come back and add an explanation later.
Given that first sentence, as a stand alone, is moronic, at best. Also, If you are trying to attribute to another author.. a reference would have done you good.
...
Now... that you have clarified it...
It STILL does not equate.
Obama is supposed to represent the justice system in the Vick case... or is Vick was the C.I.A.... or what?
The only way to legitiimize the poorly constructed analogy would be if Michael Vick were in a position of authority... such as a police chief of a superior court justice who had the ability to warp the justice system in favor of his doing... even then, it's a stretch.
I understand the underlying point the author is trying to make... Obama not prosecuting Bush for war crimes... blah, blah, blah.. but trying to work in the Michael Vick reference? The 2 do not equate, no matter how hard you spin it.
...
Finally... if you are going to use other people's analogies... give them credit for it and reference them as the authors.

fuck

Obama is supposed to represent the justice system in the Vick case... or is Vick was the C.I.A.... or what?
The only way to legitiimize the poorly constructed analogy would be if Michael Vick were in a position of authority... such as a police chief of a superior court justice who had the ability to warp the justice system in favor of his doing... even then, it's a stretch. The 2 do not equate, no matter how hard you spin it.

vick would have to have the ability to warp the justice system?
lol ok, first of all, are you saying the Bush admin are in a position to warp the justice system? Ok, maybe they are (partially), but that does not mean that the Obama administration does not have the power to prosecute. They simply chose not to. secondly, obviously it's not a completely serious analogy, we're not taking the fucking SATs, you're reading into this more than you should. the point was simply a criticism of the Obama administration for coming up with their weak ass "let's not look backwards" bullshit about torture. you seem to have missed it and came up with a whole "why are you comparing 2 random black people?" which never made sense.

Finally... if you are going to use other people's analogies... give them credit for it and reference them as the authors.

I did, or did you forget my post? It's a fucking pearl jam message board, not a dissertation.

Cosmo

_outlaw wrote:

Obama is supposed to represent the justice system in the Vick case... or is Vick was the C.I.A.... or what?
The only way to legitiimize the poorly constructed analogy would be if Michael Vick were in a position of authority... such as a police chief of a superior court justice who had the ability to warp the justice system in favor of his doing... even then, it's a stretch. The 2 do not equate, no matter how hard you spin it.

vick would have to have the ability to warp the justice system?
lol ok, first of all, are you saying the Bush admin are in a position to warp the justice system? Ok, maybe they are (partially), but that does not mean that the Obama administration does not have the power to prosecute. They simply chose not to. secondly, obviously it's not a completely serious analogy, we're not taking the fucking SATs, you're reading into this more than you should. the point was simply a criticism of the Obama administration for coming up with their weak ass "let's not look backwards" bullshit about torture. you seem to have missed it and came up with a whole "why are you comparing 2 random black people?" which never made sense.

Finally... if you are going to use other people's analogies... give them credit for it and reference them as the authors.

I did, or did you forget my post? It's a fucking pearl jam message board, not a dissertation.

...
Hey... You started this thing with that one lame sentence... then we went back and edited after I had responded.
And YES the Bush Administration DID warp the system of Authority that allowed him to get away with all of that crap. That whole Patriot Act allowed for this kind of shit. And should the Obama Administration look into this? Yes... and they are. They are looking into C.I.A. procedures to see if any laws were broken. That's what has blowhards like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity all in an uproar over.
But, it is all about priorities. The fucked up economy, the War in Afghanistan, the War in Iraq, the Health Care debate and going after the Bush Administration over Guantanamo. List the priorities as you see them and weigh them against others and see where it takes you. My guess is the Economy and Health Care top the priority list. Is it correct? Who knows... it all depends where you stand.

fuck

Cosmo wrote:

...
Hey... You started this thing with that one lame sentence... then we went back and edited after I had responded.

huh? I didn't start anything, I thought what I had was pretty obvious, you misinterpreted it completely though so I went back and had to clarify

And YES the Bush Administration DID warp the system of Authority that allowed him to get away with all of that crap. That whole Patriot Act allowed for this kind of shit.

I'm talking about now. And let's not forget that Obama voted for the PATRIOT ACT.

And should the Obama Administration look into this? Yes... and they are.

as far as I know he said there would be no hearings or prosecutions.

They are looking into C.I.A. procedures to see if any laws were broken. That's what has blowhards like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity all in an uproar over.

you could get limbaugh and hannity in an uproar over ANYTHING, lol, give me a break...

But, it is all about priorities. The fucked up economy, the War in Afghanistan, the War in Iraq, the Health Care debate and going after the Bush Administration over Guantanamo. List the priorities as you see them and weigh them against others and see where it takes you. My guess is the Economy and Health Care top the priority list. Is it correct? Who knows... it all depends where you stand.

Yeah it's just too bad that Obama is handling everything else so horribly. From the economy to Afghanistan to Iraq, he has not done a good job at all so far. I'm waiting to see how many Afghani and Pakistani civilians it takes to be killed before someone finally says ok Obama's fucking up

OnTheEdge

Holy shit!!!! here...have a tissue because we tortured another terrorists, freeakin wheeeaaaa. And if the Bush admin. didn't do what they did you would be bitching because he didn't do enough after we got attacked again.There freakin terrorists dude...who freakin cares!!!!!!!!

blondieblue227

mb262200 wrote:

Holy shit!!!! here...have a tissue because we tortured another terrorists, freeakin wheeeaaaa. And if the Bush admin. didn't do what they did you would be bitching because he didn't do enough after we got attacked again.There freakin terrorists dude...who freakin cares!!!!!!!!

see? that's what i was talking about in the #7 post.

it's whole other ball game if you're talking about war.

Smellyman

mb262200 wrote:

Holy shit!!!! here...have a tissue because we tortured another terrorists, freeakin wheeeaaaa. And if the Bush admin. didn't do what they did you would be bitching because he didn't do enough after we got attacked again.There freakin terrorists dude...who freakin cares!!!!!!!!

and u know this how?

OnTheEdge

LLet me guess..... we just grabbed a bunch of guys wearing towels and tortured them to cover up the fact that our own government blew up the towers right? Go watch another Michael Moore Documentary dude!!!

Smellyman wrote:

mb262200 wrote:

Holy shit!!!! here...have a tissue because we tortured another terrorists, freeakin wheeeaaaa. And if the Bush admin. didn't do what they did you would be bitching because he didn't do enough after we got attacked again.There freakin terrorists dude...who freakin cares!!!!!!!!

and u know this how?

Pepe Silvia

mb262200 wrote:

LLet me guess..... we just grabbed a bunch of guys wearing towels and tortured them to cover up the fact that our own government blew up the towers right? Go watch another Michael Moore Documentary dude!!!

Smellyman wrote:

mb262200 wrote:

Holy shit!!!! here...have a tissue because we tortured another terrorists, freeakin wheeeaaaa. And if the Bush admin. didn't do what they did you would be bitching because he didn't do enough after we got attacked again.There freakin terrorists dude...who freakin cares!!!!!!!!

and u know this how?

actually, there have been cases where we grabbed innocent people and tortured them. there's even a documentary about a guy who was kidnapped, held prisoner and tortured then let go because he was innocent in the special features of the film 'rendition'

Songburst

mb262200 wrote:

Holy shit!!!! here...have a tissue because we tortured another terrorists, freeakin wheeeaaaa. And if the Bush admin. didn't do what they did you would be bitching because he didn't do enough after we got attacked again.There freakin terrorists dude...who freakin cares!!!!!!!!

Lol -- I wonder why the rest of the world regards Americans as retarded rednecks?

It's a shame that these sentiments end up representing the whole country. I guess that's what happens when you have a retarded redneck as your figurehead for 8 years though.

Songburst

blondieblue227 wrote:

Vick didn’t do it for war. I’m sure there were people at the time that okayed torture because they thought it was the only way to protect the country. So to them it’s justified. So I’m gonna say something crazy: If Vick tortured dogs in behalf of a war cause I don’t think he’d be punished. Let’s say they were talking dogs or something.

And they’re talking about looking into it. maybe they’ll investigate. It’s not a closed book yet.

Didn't you hear -- Vick was torturing German Shepherds to get clues on the location of their Enigma machines and they still jailed him -- it's a bloody outrage it is.

OnTheEdge

Songburst wrote:

mb262200 wrote:

Holy shit!!!! here...have a tissue because we tortured another terrorists, freeakin wheeeaaaa. And if the Bush admin. didn't do what they did you would be bitching because he didn't do enough after we got attacked again.There freakin terrorists dude...who freakin cares!!!!!!!!

Lol -- I wonder why the rest of the world regards Americans as retarded rednecks?

It's a shame that these sentiments end up representing the whole country. I guess that's what happens when you have a retarded redneck as your figurehead for 8 years though.

Whatever dude! You know we waterboarded someone over 100 times. Is that real torture? It's not like we were ripping off fingernails and shit like that. For fuck sakes man, we poured water over somebodies face and saved alot of American lives by doing so, and now all these liberal friggin tree huggers that think theres going to be pure love, peace , and happiness in the world someday. It wont ever happen dude because there are people in this world that don't give a shit. Always has been, always will be. And no matter how you look at it, its going to take extreme measures to keep parts of this world safe.