How is an exclusive Target deal not a sellout move?

clonejamclonejam Posts: 4
edited August 2009 in The Porch
I gotta say, for a band with such a great history of social and politcal awareness, so committed to justice and fairness, this is a disappointing move. Can someone please talk me down? Why am i wrong?
Post edited by Unknown User on

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  • comebackgirlcomebackgirl Posts: 9,885
    a lot of band have had deals with various companies (Flaming Lips, Wilco etc) but I guess the issue for most of us is that PJ have ALWAYS rallied against this type of thing. Personally I was over it awhile ago but whatever. It is what it is to be honest. I have the greatest issue with that silly fixer target ad.
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  • LauriLauri Posts: 748
    I seem to have missed this whole thing. And have definitely never have seen this ad...
  • ZosoZoso Posts: 6,425
    honestly it's no different to sony deal except it's a little but more exclusive. I just hope this album is accessible to EVERYONE. The commercial isn't out yet but will be soon.
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  • jimed14jimed14 Posts: 9,488
    Someone post the article where they talked about the selection of Target as their exclusive BIG BOX retailer, I don't have it.

    One of the reasons Target was slected was that they didn't mind if PJ sold their album through indie record shops as well. there were other reasons, pretty good ones as well.

    I for one, will be bying my copy at Easy Street Records when I'm up there for the Seattle shows.

    Let me find the article.
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  • WildsWilds Posts: 4,329
    edited August 2009
    clonejam wrote:
    I gotta say, for a band with such a great history of social and politcal awareness, so committed to justice and fairness, this is a disappointing move. Can someone please talk me down? Why am i wrong?


    Pretty much for the same reason that they were or were not sellouts for being with Sony for all those years.

    Pearl Jam has been making money selling records since their inception.

    The difference is now they get to control how the music is distributed etc.

    They realize they have to compromise, but the goal is to make money selling records AND get their art to as many people as possible. In today's world they feel that utilizing Target is the best way to get their music out and make a profit.

    In the past they didn't have control over that process.

    I've personally never been caught up on the whole sell out thing. I feel it is overblown and a standard that we set set for the band, but don't necessarily follow in our personal lives.

    I feel they are still very socially and politically conscientious as they ever have been. Selling through a big box store does not mean they care less about activism.

    I think they care about justice and fairness, but also work within the parameters that society has set for them and the industry.

    Are they the best, most conscience band in the world. Hardly. Are they terrible offenders who only care about money and screwing the fans. Of course not.

    They are who they are. It is our standards that we set for them that are impossible to adhere to. The band is honest to themselves. Take them off the pedistal you put them on. Then you can step off the ledge.
    Post edited by Wilds on
  • DH62179DH62179 Posts: 312
    I don't think the phrase 'selling out' applies anymore. It's a different world than back in '94 when this kind of stuff was seen as something only money/fame hungry acts did. I like seeing musicians (especially PJ) getting their music out there however they can, I would not want to go back to the way it was earlier this decade when PJ wasn't even putting their name on their album covers just to spite the record label. I love that they are being recognized again by the mainstream which i think started up again on Avocado in '06. 8-)
  • choopchoop Posts: 1,060
    a lot of band have had deals with various companies (Flaming Lips, Wilco etc)

    wilco has been one of my favorite bands for awhile, and i've been buying their albums since summerteeth at release time, and i don't recall them ever having done anything like this.

    when the record company originally rejected yankee hotel foxtrot, they put it online for free before signing with nonesuch, and they've been with nonesuch since.
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  • jimed14jimed14 Posts: 9,488
    There's more in the article, read it ...

    http://www.billboard.com/#/features/pea ... 9243.story

    But Pearl Jam is also celebrating because it finally made good on a longstanding desire to release its music on its own, without the aid of a major label. "Backspacer" will come out Sept. 20 in the United States through a creative patchwork of deals with physical and digital retailers, the most prominent of which is a one-off, big-box exclusive with Target. Internationally, Universal Music is the label for the release.

    The Target partnership threw fans for a loop when the news leaked in June. At first glance the move seems at odds with a band whose DIY, fan-first business ethic has set it against corporate behemoths like Ticketmaster and AT&T. But as details began to emerge, it became clear that Pearl Jam managed to make a deal that rewards the band and its fans as much as it does the stores that sell its music.

    Target agreed to let independent music retailers carry "Backspacer," a first for one of its exclusives. (The album will be distributed to indie stores by the Coalition of Independent Music Stores' Junketboy division.) "Backspacer" will also be sold on Pearl Jam's Web site and at Apple's iTunes Music Store.

    "We've put a tremendous amount of thought into this, and we've done it in a way that we think will be good for everybody," Vedder says. He understands why some fans may be confused about the deal, but he says, "I can't think of anything we've ever done without putting it through our own personal moral barometer. Target has passed for us. The fans just have to trust us."
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  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    clonejam wrote:
    I gotta say, for a band with such a great history of social and politcal awareness, so committed to justice and fairness, this is a disappointing move. Can someone please talk me down? Why am i wrong?
    ...
    I guess the short answer is: "The same way signing with Epic/Sony in 1990 wasn't a 'Sell Out' move".
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  • LauriLauri Posts: 748
    As long as the album will be available in record stores as well, what's the problem? If Target is the exclusive big box retailer, at least it's not Walmart, right? I mean, these big box stores would be selling the album anyway.

    I'm no fan of these types of stores, but unfortunately, many people in the country have to do all of their shopping there. Especially with the demise of many chain record stores, there might not be anywhere else to buy a CD in some suburban or rural areas.
  • RM2280RM2280 Posts: 14
    kudos to Wilds !!! couldn't have said it any better....
  • UpSideDownUpSideDown Posts: 1,966
    clonejam wrote:
    I gotta say, for a band with such a great history of social and politcal awareness, so committed to justice and fairness, this is a disappointing move. Can someone please talk me down? Why am i wrong?

    Pearl Jam was partnered w/ Sony and Epic their entire careers -with their albums being sold at Best Buy , Circuit City, Walmart, the list goes on and on.

    Now they have partnered w/ Target exclusively (which in my opinion is a better retailer), and cut out the places they did not like (Walmart especially).

    PJ wants their music to reach people.......I can see a lot of people who may not follow PJ that closely , but happen to see the album at Target and end up grabbing a copy. Controlled exposure can be a good thing.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Zoso wrote:
    honestly it's no different to sony deal except it's a little but more exclusive. I just hope this album is accessible to EVERYONE. The commercial isn't out yet but will be soon.

    a little more exclusive?????? out of the 5 major retailers i have at my disposal, 4 of them will be unable to carry backspacer due to this deal. out of the 4 major music stores at my disposal.. backspacer wil be available at NONE of them due to this deal. where will i buy backspacer?? at the indie store i buy the huge majority of my shit anyway. so please mr gossard tell me... what is the advantage for indie stores with this target deal???


    btw... is this just a US/north american distribution deal???
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  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    And am I the only one who is tired of that term, 'Sell-Out'? I mean, what does it mean, anyway?
    I think i would be hard pressed to find anyone that would not be willing to sell of their skills for money... right? Like, why isn't an electrical engineer a sell-out if he lands a well paying job at a big corporation? Why isn't a teacher a sell out if she lands a well paying job at a prestigious school?
    The term 'Sell out' is usually thrown around by someone who does not possess anything worth selling at people who have something worth paying for.
    Why is that?
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  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Zoso wrote:
    honestly it's no different to sony deal except it's a little but more exclusive. I just hope this album is accessible to EVERYONE. The commercial isn't out yet but will be soon.

    a little more exclusive?????? out of the 5 major retailers i have at my disposal, 4 of them will be unable to carry backspacer due to this deal. out of the 4 major music stores at my disposal.. backspacer wil be available at NONE of them due to this deal. where will i buy backspacer?? at the indie store i buy the huge majority of my shit anyway. so please mr gossard tell me... what is the advantage for indie stores with this target deal???


    btw... is this just a US/north american distribution deal???
    ...
    Are you in the U.S? Because the little record store in Long Beach will be selling it.
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  • Paul AndrewsPaul Andrews Posts: 2,489
    A sell out - no.

    A different method of operation - yes.

    I'm now 40, with a family and am in a far different place mentally than I was in the 90s. I'm sure the same can be said for most of the band. When I found pearl jam in the early 90s I was in a very different headspace, had a lot to learn and I found solice in their lyrics, loved the music and the values of the band. It seemed a lot of whay they sang about mirrored my emotions, fears and challenges. I bet the same for most of you reading this. The link between band and fan runs far deeper because of the quality of the poetry and the honesty between band and fans and the fact they've always tried to do somethign special or unique.

    We all grow up. Eventually you stop pissing in the wind and fine out how you can make the wind work for you. You pick your fights. You sometimes use your enemy. You also see things in a different light. Over the last few albums they've become very political when it was needed. How important is ticketmaster really when you have do dumbass chicken hawks running the world on behalf of even bigger corporations?? They found new targets for their anger and scorn.

    I shop at target and I bet a lot of 30-50 year old fans with kids and a budget shop there. They employ lots of local kids, look after them pretty well and give great customer service (admittedly, I like in a country town - not a city). For the band it is good business, for the fan it is easy and convenient access for a large slice of their target audience. I bet target give it some heavy promotion in store. Especially those who may have even forgotten pearl jam existed (I meet plenty of them). I trust they did an ethical deal and the fact they are still offering so many other ways of purchasing it, good on them.

    Quite a few things are different with Pearl Jam these days, but given the above, I can see why. They have lives to lead, families to be with, music to put out. Unless they want to be a slave to the system, they have to subcontract or sign deals. I trust them to do it in the way that makes it easiest and cheapest for the fans to get this music, yet does not sell the soul of the band or it's fans. I'm sure there would have been a number of important clauses in the contract and you wont see pearl jam members opening stores in the near future.

    Pearl Jam is not an exculsive club. Their music is not something beholden only to the few. It needs to be listened to by as many people as possible. They should be the number 1 selling artist in the world - not some snot nosed plastic punk whining about his girlfriend not sleeping with im him, or some diva done up like a hooker begging you to slap her. These heavily produced unit shifters cover turds in glitter, make money for corporations, spread some pretty interesting values to our kids and generally suck.I don't see many people listen referring to any of those artists when they talk about great acts. If target selling pearl jam means a new generation listens and thinks about mopre than their cock due to the fact Pearl Jam is in their ipod and a heap pf people rediscover the band - then great.
  • ledveddermanledvedderman Posts: 7,761
    It's not a sell out move because we have no fucking business telling the band how they should handle their job. If you haven't noticed, the music industry is totally different as opposed to the early days of the band when they were against this kind of stuff. The band has evolved its beliefs to fit the times. I suggest you do the same. As long as Pearl Jam is still putting out great music...who gives a shit.
  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    i thought sellout was a song by reel big fish
  • Gary CarterGary Carter Posts: 14,067
    norm wrote:
    i thought sellout was a song by reel big fish
    :lol::lol:
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  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Cosmo wrote:
    Zoso wrote:
    honestly it's no different to sony deal except it's a little but more exclusive. I just hope this album is accessible to EVERYONE. The commercial isn't out yet but will be soon.

    a little more exclusive?????? out of the 5 major retailers i have at my disposal, 4 of them will be unable to carry backspacer due to this deal. out of the 4 major music stores at my disposal.. backspacer wil be available at NONE of them due to this deal. where will i buy backspacer?? at the indie store i buy the huge majority of my shit anyway. so please mr gossard tell me... what is the advantage for indie stores with this target deal???


    btw... is this just a US/north american distribution deal???
    ...
    Are you in the U.S? Because the little record store in Long Beach will be selling it.

    nope and thats why i think my ire whilst well placed is theoretical only. i can not see this distribution deal happening here in oz. i could be wrong... wouldnt be the first time.
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  • tvismyfriendtvismyfriend Posts: 2,118
    edited August 2009
    I don't get how this is selling out. Isn't selling out going against your artistic vision so that you can make money? If anything selling the album "exclusively" at Target might hurt record sales. I mean if they wanted to make loads of money off this album, you would think they would be selling it at as many big stores as possible.
    nope and thats why i think my ire whilst well placed is theoretical only. i can not see this distribution deal happening here in oz. i could be wrong... wouldnt be the first time.

    Outside of the US the album is being handled by Universal Music. So us foreigners can buy it wherever we choose.
    Post edited by tvismyfriend on
  • PJStatTrackerPJStatTracker Posts: 2,400

    Oh and outside of the US the album is being handled by Universal Music.

    sellouts!

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  • primussucksprimussucks Posts: 2,364
    Look at it this way, they are giving the F-U to Wal-Mart and Best Buy!!! Target was the only big box retailer that would allow the indie stores to sell the album as well. So I ask you: How is that selling out??????
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  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    I don't get how this is selling out. Isn't selling out going against your artistic vision so that you can make money? If anything selling the album "exclusively" at Target might hurt record sales. I mean if they wanted to make loads of money off this album, you would think they would be selling it at as many big stores as possible.
    nope and thats why i think my ire whilst well placed is theoretical only. i can not see this distribution deal happening here in oz. i could be wrong... wouldnt be the first time.

    Outside of the US the album is being handled by Universal Music. So us foreigners can buy it wherever we choose.


    look out target here i come!!!
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  • RiotAct10RiotAct10 Ohio Posts: 1,634
    The way I look at it is...
    It is 2000-freaking-9. Have you been paying attention to the music industry over the past decade-plus? This is not your parents Music Industry anymore folks. Heck, if you child is in middle school, it's not even the industry that was around when they were born. Different rules, different requirements, different needs, etc.

    As far as what is selling out, I look at it as, if you are against something wholeheartedly, and you do it anyways, even though you hate it and don't want to do it, and only do it maybe to profit financially, that could be selling out. I don't think changing one's mind is selling out. You can feel a way about something one day, and different the next, or the next year. Just as it is 2000-freaking-9 for the music industry, the same goes for Pearl Jam. They formed in 1990 when Ed was like, what, 25? Now they are all in their mid-40's. I am only 24, but can anybody who is in their mid-40's honestly tell me nothing about them (their opinions, their stances, etc.) have not changed from 20 years ago? This band has been on a long ride, and if Pearl Jam are the one's that have "sold out", then what the f--- have all the other bands in the world done!!!????

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  • OGT92OGT92 Posts: 1,588
    Who gives a fuck where the albums re sold...is it really that big a deal? I could care less, and maybe you shouldn't either. If this is the only issue in your life than good for you.
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  • KatKat Posts: 4,930
    clonejam wrote:
    I gotta say, for a band with such a great history of social and politcal awareness, so committed to justice and fairness, this is a disappointing move. Can someone please talk me down? Why am i wrong?

    You are incorrect because what you are saying is misinformation that was spread early on. The deal with Target is not exclusive of other retailers. The record will be available at mom and pop record stores, indie stores. That's why it is not an exclusive deal with Target.

    Because the original post continues to spread the misinformation, I'll close it now. I hope this helps you. :)

    Best,
    Kat
    Falling down,...not staying down
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