"early hunter-gatherer societies were essentially egalitarian, with men and women fulfilling distinct, complementary roles of equal perceived value and worshipping goddesses as representative of women's reproductive power. With the shift to agriculture seemingly came increased male control over the public sphere and ultimately the subordination of female deities: typically they were recast as the consorts or mothers of male gods, then absorbed into a coed but male-controlled pantheon."
again, as I said in another thread....'our culture is killing us.'
The fact that no one can even visualize peace on this planet, is sad indeed. :?
i agree that it is our culture that is kiling us.
BTW, i can visualize peace on the planet, i just don't it is as simple as saying that the world would be better if women were running it. what we need is a code of ethics not a code of morals.
too true.
i do think it is possible, though more than likely...improbable. the history of humanity does not seem to be entirely 'peaceful'....and just like many other animals on this planet, we fight over territories and resources, the best of everything. it's got nothing to do with gender, and everything to do with humankind, overall.
sadly, i think it biols down to one person war is another person fight for freedom. i just think we have to understand what we consider freedom.
Since I dont believe in any essentialist explanation on the difference in behaviour of the two sexes, AND I believe that power corrupts, then I'm sad to say I dont think it would have been that much different, actually.
That's absurd to think there are no differences in the behaviors of the sexes. We're built different and function different and respond to phenomena different.
Er, I think it's a bit complex. There are genetic factors that determine people's sex/evolutionary preogratives/basic behaviour but there are sociological factors that determine people's gender/sense of social constructedness as a man, woman or whatever in between. And there's probably a big splodgy overlap between sex and gender. And we'll never answer this on A Moving Train. At least, I hope not, because I'd fall asleep.
Sure there are social differences, but there are real physical, biological differences too. To act like men and women are exactly the same is absurd, and kinda ridiculous that the comment came from someone who later said men have power because they're physically stronger and then pulled the birth card... two of several biological differences and process that makes clear distinctions between men and women. There is also the reactions to sexual activity, hormone levels, the fact the women have more inter-lobal neural connections, etc. There are plenty of concrete differences between the sexes. Granted, there are far more commonalities and social conditioning plays a huge role in our behavior as well... probably a bigger role. But let's call a spade a spade... men and women are not the same. They're built different and they behave different in notable ways.
Well, you wrapped it up pretty nicely there.
I'm not denying biological differences between the sexes. Those are pretty obvious.
But, I will hold onto that the social environment and conditioning as a lot more important to our behaviour in social situations than the (slightly different) mix of chemicals in the bodies. Not to mention that there are almost as big differences within the same gender than between them. There are "macho", aggressive women out there, and sweet introvert little boys. I find it a lot more useful to see us all as individuals in this. That male and female stereotypes sometimes fit, is also because we believe them to be true, and are trained to replicate them from childhood. (Yes, I am a social constructivist, if you wonder. )
So, if somehow the women had ended up in charge of our civilization, I dont think it would look that much different, really. Leaders, who are the ones that start wars, are necessarily ambitious people. Ambitious people often are more ruthless to get their will done, and are more eager to amass power. So, if somehow our leaders tended to be women, I dont think it would look much different. It would be the ruthless and ambitious women in charge instead of the ruthless and ambition men.
Maybe a little different, but probably not much. That's my humble opinion.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
you are right Dan. what is needed is a real debate abotu what we consider to be important. i think it comes down to what we as a society must hold our leaders accountable. i find that if you are politically left, we don't hold our leaders accountable and if you are politically right we don't hold those leaders accountable.
you can see it here all the time. if someone is complaining abotu Obama others will say well bush fucked up bigger. that is true but that doesn't dismiss Obama screwing up. get away from left and right and focus on what we as people want and need.
I’ve never really answered the question of if women ruled the planet would it be better. But I have given my opinion that men and women are way different. So would it be better? I dunno, but it would definitely be different.
I do think if women ruled we would war just as much as we do now. The wars maybe conducted differently or be about different issues than what we war about now.
But I disagree with people who say men and women aren’t different. We are WAY different. The way we communicate, problem solve, grieve. But I believe men and women are different because we’re suppose to balance one another out. On the other hand, it’s aggravating as hell sometimes to live together because we’re so different. (but like I said before, I’m still learning)
I don’t understand how anybody who has been in a long term relationship can say the sexes are the same. Hehehehe!
For the peace thing…. I think we all want it, but when push comes to shove it’s extremely difficult. Every species wars, we just have guns and bombs. The warring gene or whatever you want to call it, is in every creature's make up on our planet. We, the most evolved species has the will to fight the warring urge and problem solve in a non-violent way. Do we do it? Yes, a lot of the time we do, but there’s much to be improved on.
*~Pearl Jam will be blasted from speakers until morale improves~*
you think I wouldn't have him
unless I could have him by the balls
you think I just dish it out
you don't think I take it at all
you think I am stronger
you think I walk taller than the rest
you think I'm usually wearing the pants
just 'cause I rarely wear a dress
well...
when you look at me
you see my purpose,
see my pride
you think I just saddle up my anger
and ride and ride and ride
you think I stand so firm
you think I sit so high on my trusty steed
let me tell you
I'm usually face down on the ground
when there's a stampede
I'm no heroine
at least, not last time I checked
I'm too easy to roll over
I'm too easy to wreck
I just write about
what I should have done
I just sing
what I wish I could say
and hope somewhere
some woman hears my music
and it helps her through her day
'cause some guy designed
these shoes I use to walk around
some big man's business turns a profit
every time I lay my money down
some guy designed the room I'm standing in
another built it with his own tools
who says I like right angles?
these are not my laws
there are not my rules
I'm no heroine
I still answer to the other half of the race
I don't fool myself
like I fool you
I don't have the power
we just don't run this place
I believe someone may have made this point already, but a leader is a leader. Same qualities, so sex is irrelevant.
If women ruled the world it would be just as fucked up as it is now run by men. Arnie said it best: "you are human, it is in your nature to destroy yourselves".
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
If women ruled the world it certainly would be different whether it would better or worse is hard to say.
Power is a corrupting force...When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. JH
We would probably have the same problems we face today but we shall see one day we WILL have a female President that's for sure.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I don't know... it seems to me that it is already a parnership society, at least in western industrialized nations.
The men earn the money, the women dispose of it. In a Patriarchy, a man continues to have custody of his children after a divorce. In the U.S. today, the wife gets custody in about 90 percent of all cases. Also, since males die in our society seven years younger than their wives, the families that own most of the wealth fall under female domination eventually. And, of course, even while the males remain alive, most of them share decision-making with their wives on many important occasions.
In regards to the "big picture," I would contend that a group of rich families, not merely the males, make all the important decisions. This type of system has existed in every post-tribal society in history, including the ones that calls themselves democratic, socialistic or even communistic. Oligarchy virtually means the same as "civilization."
Lets not forget that women DO have a lot of say in this world, and rightfully so. We men have to do what we can to get up in that ol' p***y. :oops:
(please don't take all this too seriously just some of it is serious and I'll leave deciding which is or isn't up to the reader)
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
I can't figure out why women don't. Most men are raised by women throughout their lives. Moms, teachers, etc. They usually have women on staff to keep everything in order and working. Most men has some woman he goes to for answers on how to run things. So, why aren't women running things?
I know very few men who don't have to answer to a women.
Women are more oriented to notice detail, to think ahead and look at the big picture, and to not rush to judgement. Most women are tougher than men. I would rather have a male judge, teacher, or anyone who is authority of me 'cuz they can be conned so easily. Women are tough.
I just cannot figure out why women are not in charge. We really are except when it matters, like making money, or deciding war.
"It is getting harder to escape the sense that most of the trouble in the world – whether it's coming out of the Senate, a mortgage lender, or a tank turret – can be traced to one overriding problem: too many men steering. Had our economic, domestic, and foreign policy been more informed by women, we might be enjoying a safer ride?"
Would the world be a softer place with more woman at the wheel? In tribal cultures, women ran the village while the man were away doing the physical work, obtaining food.
I think women have much to bring to the table....
I think it would be a kinder, gentler place to live. and she could make all tampons free! Tampax Pearl ones for all!
Greed and an arrogant assumption of entitlement are not gender specific.
It's not a matter of gender in the roles you take on. It's what you do in the role that matters. Here's an idea, how about having competent people run the world, without regard to their gender.
who is it exactly you all think runs/rules the world atm?? the presidents prime ministers kings and queens?? or the CEOs of the corporations that are sucking the life from the earth?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
who is it exactly you all think runs/rules the world atm?? the presidents prime ministers kings and queens?? or the CEOs of the corporations that are sucking the life from the earth?
I think each and everyone of us runs this world. With our thoughts, actions, lack of action, lack of education, addictions, what we consume etc...
Everything is connected.
Everything you do, will affect someone else.
Whoever runs this planet has to "dream the dreams of other women and you'll be no one's rival."
I got this in an email in a Tom Robbins fan group this morning... from his book "Skinny Legs and All". I thought you uber-feminists would appreciate it.
"Because the Goddess was changeable and playful, because she looked upon natural chaos as lovingly as she did natural order, because her warm feminine intuition was often at odds with cool masculine reason, because the uterine magic of her daughters had since the dawn of consciousness overshadowed the penis power of her sons, resentful priests of a tribe of nomadic Hebrews led a coup against her some four thousand years ago--and most of what we know as Western civilization is the result."
"Interestingly enough, one of the crimes charged to Jezebel, according to the historian Josephus, was the planting of trees. Since the Goddess always has been honored in sacred groves, it is understandable that patriarchs, then as now, leaned toward deforestation. ..her misdeed was her devotion to Astarte. Because that devotion was contagious (being an instinctive human reflex), because it weakened the grip of the Yahweh cult, she was slandered, framed, and finally murdered."
"Why wasn't Ellen Cherry aware of all this? Why wasn't the mass of humankind aware of it? Because veils of ignorance, disinformation and illusion separate us from that which is imperative to our understanding of our evolutionary journey, shield us from the Mystery that is central to being."
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
I got this in an email in a Tom Robbins fan group this morning... from his book "Skinny Legs and All". I thought you uber-feminists would appreciate it.
"Because the Goddess was changeable and playful, because she looked upon natural chaos as lovingly as she did natural order, because her warm feminine intuition was often at odds with cool masculine reason, because the uterine magic of her daughters had since the dawn of consciousness overshadowed the penis power of her sons, resentful priests of a tribe of nomadic Hebrews led a coup against her some four thousand years ago--and most of what we know as Western civilization is the result."
"Interestingly enough, one of the crimes charged to Jezebel, according to the historian Josephus, was the planting of trees. Since the Goddess always has been honored in sacred groves, it is understandable that patriarchs, then as now, leaned toward deforestation. ..her misdeed was her devotion to Astarte. Because that devotion was contagious (being an instinctive human reflex), because it weakened the grip of the Yahweh cult, she was slandered, framed, and finally murdered."
"Why wasn't Ellen Cherry aware of all this? Why wasn't the mass of humankind aware of it? Because veils of ignorance, disinformation and illusion separate us from that which is imperative to our understanding of our evolutionary journey, shield us from the Mystery that is central to being."
It's no wonder that I can't stand the sound of a chainsaw......
....and the chainsaws still scream, just ask The Lorax and whatever ignorant channel that dedicated an hour of showing men cut down majestic trees. It's like watching an hour of slaughtering seals.
I always knew worship should take place in nature and I find this story very interesting in regards to women. Thanks for sharing.
check out a song by The Tea Party called "Release". It covers this exact topic. Jeff Martin and the rest of the band subsequently started to support an awareness campaign called the White Ribbon Campaign, which is an organization run by men to rid the world of female oppression and violence by men.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Comments
sadly, i think it biols down to one person war is another person fight for freedom. i just think we have to understand what we consider freedom.
Well, you wrapped it up pretty nicely there.
I'm not denying biological differences between the sexes. Those are pretty obvious.
But, I will hold onto that the social environment and conditioning as a lot more important to our behaviour in social situations than the (slightly different) mix of chemicals in the bodies. Not to mention that there are almost as big differences within the same gender than between them. There are "macho", aggressive women out there, and sweet introvert little boys. I find it a lot more useful to see us all as individuals in this. That male and female stereotypes sometimes fit, is also because we believe them to be true, and are trained to replicate them from childhood. (Yes, I am a social constructivist, if you wonder.
So, if somehow the women had ended up in charge of our civilization, I dont think it would look that much different, really. Leaders, who are the ones that start wars, are necessarily ambitious people. Ambitious people often are more ruthless to get their will done, and are more eager to amass power. So, if somehow our leaders tended to be women, I dont think it would look much different. It would be the ruthless and ambitious women in charge instead of the ruthless and ambition men.
Maybe a little different, but probably not much. That's my humble opinion.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
you can see it here all the time. if someone is complaining abotu Obama others will say well bush fucked up bigger. that is true but that doesn't dismiss Obama screwing up. get away from left and right and focus on what we as people want and need.
I do think if women ruled we would war just as much as we do now. The wars maybe conducted differently or be about different issues than what we war about now.
But I disagree with people who say men and women aren’t different. We are WAY different. The way we communicate, problem solve, grieve. But I believe men and women are different because we’re suppose to balance one another out. On the other hand, it’s aggravating as hell sometimes to live together because we’re so different. (but like I said before, I’m still learning)
I don’t understand how anybody who has been in a long term relationship can say the sexes are the same. Hehehehe!
For the peace thing…. I think we all want it, but when push comes to shove it’s extremely difficult. Every species wars, we just have guns and bombs. The warring gene or whatever you want to call it, is in every creature's make up on our planet. We, the most evolved species has the will to fight the warring urge and problem solve in a non-violent way. Do we do it? Yes, a lot of the time we do, but there’s much to be improved on.
you think I wouldn't have him
unless I could have him by the balls
you think I just dish it out
you don't think I take it at all
you think I am stronger
you think I walk taller than the rest
you think I'm usually wearing the pants
just 'cause I rarely wear a dress
well...
when you look at me
you see my purpose,
see my pride
you think I just saddle up my anger
and ride and ride and ride
you think I stand so firm
you think I sit so high on my trusty steed
let me tell you
I'm usually face down on the ground
when there's a stampede
I'm no heroine
at least, not last time I checked
I'm too easy to roll over
I'm too easy to wreck
I just write about
what I should have done
I just sing
what I wish I could say
and hope somewhere
some woman hears my music
and it helps her through her day
'cause some guy designed
these shoes I use to walk around
some big man's business turns a profit
every time I lay my money down
some guy designed the room I'm standing in
another built it with his own tools
who says I like right angles?
these are not my laws
there are not my rules
I'm no heroine
I still answer to the other half of the race
I don't fool myself
like I fool you
I don't have the power
we just don't run this place
If women ruled the world it would be just as fucked up as it is now run by men. Arnie said it best: "you are human, it is in your nature to destroy yourselves".
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Power is a corrupting force...When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. JH
We would probably have the same problems we face today but we shall see one day we WILL have a female President that's for sure.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
The men earn the money, the women dispose of it. In a Patriarchy, a man continues to have custody of his children after a divorce. In the U.S. today, the wife gets custody in about 90 percent of all cases. Also, since males die in our society seven years younger than their wives, the families that own most of the wealth fall under female domination eventually. And, of course, even while the males remain alive, most of them share decision-making with their wives on many important occasions.
In regards to the "big picture," I would contend that a group of rich families, not merely the males, make all the important decisions. This type of system has existed in every post-tribal society in history, including the ones that calls themselves democratic, socialistic or even communistic. Oligarchy virtually means the same as "civilization."
Lets not forget that women DO have a lot of say in this world, and rightfully so. We men have to do what we can to get up in that ol' p***y. :oops:
(please don't take all this too seriously
I know very few men who don't have to answer to a women.
Women are more oriented to notice detail, to think ahead and look at the big picture, and to not rush to judgement. Most women are tougher than men. I would rather have a male judge, teacher, or anyone who is authority of me 'cuz they can be conned so easily. Women are tough.
I just cannot figure out why women are not in charge. We really are except when it matters, like making money, or deciding war.
I think it would be a kinder, gentler place to live.
when i was a young girl i remember thinking 'all this female personal stuff should be free.'
It's not a matter of gender in the roles you take on. It's what you do in the role that matters. Here's an idea, how about having competent people run the world, without regard to their gender.
who is it exactly you all think runs/rules the world atm?? the presidents prime ministers kings and queens?? or the CEOs of the corporations that are sucking the life from the earth?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I think each and everyone of us runs this world. With our thoughts, actions, lack of action, lack of education, addictions, what we consume etc...
Everything is connected.
Everything you do, will affect someone else.
Whoever runs this planet has to "dream the dreams of other women and you'll be no one's rival."
"Because the Goddess was changeable and playful, because she looked upon natural chaos as lovingly as she did natural order, because her warm feminine intuition was often at odds with cool masculine reason, because the uterine magic of her daughters had since the dawn of consciousness overshadowed the penis power of her sons, resentful priests of a tribe of nomadic Hebrews led a coup against her some four thousand years ago--and most of what we know as Western civilization is the result."
"Interestingly enough, one of the crimes charged to Jezebel, according to the historian Josephus, was the planting of trees. Since the Goddess always has been honored in sacred groves, it is understandable that patriarchs, then as now, leaned toward deforestation. ..her misdeed was her devotion to Astarte. Because that devotion was contagious (being an instinctive human reflex), because it weakened the grip of the Yahweh cult, she was slandered, framed, and finally murdered."
"Why wasn't Ellen Cherry aware of all this? Why wasn't the mass of humankind aware of it? Because veils of ignorance, disinformation and illusion separate us from that which is imperative to our understanding of our evolutionary journey, shield us from the Mystery that is central to being."
It's no wonder that I can't stand the sound of a chainsaw......
....and the chainsaws still scream, just ask The Lorax and whatever ignorant channel that dedicated an hour of showing men cut down majestic trees. It's like watching an hour of slaughtering seals.
I always knew worship should take place in nature and I find this story very interesting in regards to women. Thanks for sharing.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014