The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals

Commy

prfctlefts wrote:

I'll eat a NY strip cooked med rare over a damn piece of cauliflower any day. and as far as Turkey hunting goes if you never been it's a must if your a hunter.

its fucked up. i know people that wouldn't eat if they didn't go out and kill some game. the same people that offer me elk sausages and moose steaks,.,,,and hell yeah. i'm all for that.

but the second it becomes mass produced...those cows have a shitty life, and those chickens....and i'm not suppoorting that. i was vegetarian for 6 months....now its about not spending money on cruelty.. and that's not so easy...and fuckoff if i care about a chicken, i will not have cruelty feed me. but yeah....hunting, IF you eat it, its all good. at least the animal wasn't raised in captivity .

Jeanwah

In my opinion, the best thing we can do as far as our food choices, is supporting local farms. And that goes for both animal and vegetable / fruit farms. I'm not much of a meat eater, I don't care for it, but if I had a couple freezers, I'd consider buying a pig (the rest of the fam likes meat). I don't agree with what we're buying in supermarkets are safe and besides, farmers need more localized support. They rely on community support via their farmer's markets and CSAs, and it's also a big deal to know exactly where your food is coming from. It's healthier, it's not grown by Monsanto, and we're keeping a hurting industry - farmers that are not subsidized - alive and prosperous.

tybird

PearlJain wrote:

OMG!!!! The Obama 44 CZAR's thing! I know!!! How Communistic is THAT?

Not very Communist....tis was the Communists who killed the Czar (Tsar). :twisted:

TravisTheSky

Arthurdent, your post reminds me of something I watched on ABC several years ago: John Stossell (spelling?) had a recurring bit on 20/20 or one of those similar shows. I think it was called "Give Me A Break!"

One night he decided to bash organic produce. He dismissed the potential danger from pesticides in vegetables by saying, "Oh, they're in such small amounts." Very scientific! As evidence, he played old black and white film footage of people sitting at a picnic table munching on sandwiches. A crop duster flew over and misted them with droplets of pesticide. Stossell said [paraphrase] "SEE? They're fine!!" He finished the segment by eating a non-organic banana.

Tybird, anyone who has spent a few minutes on PETA's website or watched an interview with Ingrid Newkirk knows that the hard-core devoted members do NOT want to release factory farm animals. They want to euthanise them because they believe that 'domestic' animals should not exist. Even caring for a pet goes against their ideals- by definition, an animal that is 'kept' must be a suffering wretch who is better off dead. That extremism is what will ensure that PETA never becomes accepted in the mainstream.

arthurdent

TravisTheSky wrote:

Arthurdent, your post reminds me of something I watched on ABC several years ago: John Stossell (spelling?) had a recurring bit on 20/20 or one of those similar shows. I think it was called "Give Me A Break!"

well, I AM an agricultural journalist. The difference between me and John Stossell is that Stossell's a hack and I'm just a guy with ink on my hands and dirt under my nails


The whole thing with "organic" is that it's just California-bred marketing bullshit. Come to think of it, most bad marketing ideas seem to come from California. I think there's a pattern here.

And for the record, Monsanto IS evil... for a lot of reasons. That being said, the science behind what they do is sound.

PearlJain

weenie wrote:

I don't want to argue about what I'm about to say because I already KNOW it's a totally idealistic philosophy that would only occur in a utopian society. But I can't help but feel that all these valid points about the horror and the difficulties with animal farming just strengthen the value of becoming vegetarian. If nothing else, they reinforce MY CHOICE not to support the animal food industry.

I'm not being self-righteous, I'm just really glad that all this information is here for people to read and consider. The first step towards any kind of positive change occurs when people internalize all of the information available. I happen to think that Pearl Jam fans are some of the most socially and environmentally aware people in this country. Personally, I'm happy when just one person makes the decision to become vegetarian.

Personally - I like the way you word your discussions - as I don't see whom could find it offensive, or (to use your word argue[mentive]. Actually - I wish I could post my responses as well as you do. I am a Vegetarian, too....big surprise - as I've only said that about myself a trillion times (ironically - the same amount as our current National deficit...) I digress. I don't push my beliefs onto anyone - as I have found it to be pointless. I have found when people ask me - then they're more open to at least being take my point of view into consideration. This is strictly for my Vegetarian views however. I'm still learning about debating with those whom oppose me politically....which is most here on this websight. Be that as it may - I still LOVE Pearl Jam music. When I die- those whom find my lifeless body will no doubt find me listening to their music on my IPOD. Ha!

weenie

PearlJain wrote:

weenie wrote:

I don't want to argue about what I'm about to say because I already KNOW it's a totally idealistic philosophy that would only occur in a utopian society. But I can't help but feel that all these valid points about the horror and the difficulties with animal farming just strengthen the value of becoming vegetarian. If nothing else, they reinforce MY CHOICE not to support the animal food industry.

I'm not being self-righteous, I'm just really glad that all this information is here for people to read and consider. The first step towards any kind of positive change occurs when people internalize all of the information available. I happen to think that Pearl Jam fans are some of the most socially and environmentally aware people in this country. Personally, I'm happy when just one person makes the decision to become vegetarian.

Personally - I like the way you word your discussions - as I don't see whom could find it offensive, or (to use your word argue[mentive]. Actually - I wish I could post my responses as well as you do. I am a Vegetarian, too....big surprise - as I've only said that about myself a trillion times (ironically - the same amount as our current National deficit...) I digress. I don't push my beliefs onto anyone - as I have found it to be pointless. I have found when people ask me - then they're more open to at least being take my point of view into consideration. This is strictly for my Vegetarian views however. I'm still learning about debating with those whom oppose me politically....which is most here on this websight. Be that as it may - I still LOVE Pearl Jam music. When I die- those whom find my lifeless body will no doubt find me listening to their music on my IPOD. Ha!

Thanks Jain.
From reading your posts, I seem to recall that you work in Social Welfare - is that right? If so, that's a TOUGH job that not many people have the guts or determination for. It's a profession in which our society desperately needs more people who are dedicated and passionate. I admire people who can devote their lives to the social good and I also realize that you have to be passionate about what you do.

That same passion comes through in your posts Jain. There's nothing wrong with having a different point of view - that's what this forum is for. Sometimes though you have to realize that the majority of us would like the forum to be a "live and let live" culture - where we all have a voice. If you incorporate that idea into your posts, you'll be fine. I don't think anybody here expects us all to agree, but I think the overwhelming majority try not to express raw emotion. It only gets us clobbered anyway! So, don't let posters goad you into expressing yourself as a "hater". I don't think you're that at all. You're veggie! You have a big heart!

So "Peace" as Dan says.
Don't let people shut you down. Respect what they have to say and they'll usually respect you.

TravisTheSky

tybird wrote:

And don't try to tell me that if we ended livestock production how much more farming of crops could take place....saving the masses from starvation....a lot of land used for livestock is not what the big-brains call arable land....

The way I understand this issue is that more than half of the crops grown in the U.S. are used to feed livestock. If the crops were all eaten by people, then the amount of food available to the world would be multiplied. Sorry, I don't have any statistics in front of me, so I can't quote any figures.

Of course, many Americans think they need to consume massive amounts of protein every day or they'll suffer malnutrition. The men who invented the RDA of 60 grams admitted that they purposely DOUBLED the human requirement of 30 grams per day to encourage people to eat enough protein. The irony is that it's almost impossible for anyone who eats a healthy number of calories to not get enough protein. The most dedicated vegans, who never take in a drop of dairy, get at least 70 grams of daily protein. Protein deficiency is only a problem in people who go hungry.

Excess protein contributes to osteoporosis. Protein is acidic, calcium is alkaline. As the blood becomes acidic with protein, calcium leeches out of the bones to neutralise the body's pH. Taking calcium supplements does little good: The intestinal wall blocks excessive calcium from being absorbed so that internal organs don't calcify (turn into rock!)

arthurdent

TravisTheSky wrote:

The way I understand this issue is that more than half of the crops grown in the U.S. are used to feed livestock. If the crops were all eaten by people, then the amount of food available to the world would be multiplied. Sorry, I don't have any statistics in front of me, so I can't quote any figures.

for one thing, the corn we eat isn't the same as that used for animal feed, etc.
second, this is why the livestock industry hates the ethanol industry. More corn used for fuel ethanol means higher prices for cattle feed.

polaris_x

arthurdent wrote:

And for the record, Monsanto IS evil... for a lot of reasons. That being said, the science behind what they do is sound.

how can you say the science is sound? there's a reason why BST is banned almost everywhere in the world ... the thing with industrialized agriculture is that no one ever factors in the secondary or tertiary resources required to produce this stuff ... all the fertilizer required because the soil has been so depleted of natural nutrients ...

weenie

TravisTheSky wrote:

The way I understand this issue is that more than half of the crops grown in the U.S. are used to feed livestock. If the crops were all eaten by people, then the amount of food available to the world would be multiplied. Sorry, I don't have any statistics in front of me, so I can't quote any figures.

Of course, many Americans think they need to consume massive amounts of protein every day or they'll suffer malnutrition. The men who invented the RDA of 60 grams admitted that they purposely DOUBLED the human requirement of 30 grams per day to encourage people to eat enough protein. The irony is that it's almost impossible for anyone who eats a healthy number of calories to not get enough protein. The most dedicated vegans, who never take in a drop of dairy, get at least 70 grams of daily protein. Protein deficiency is only a problem in people who go hungry.

Excess protein contributes to osteoporosis. Protein is acidic, calcium is alkaline. As the blood becomes acidic with protein, calcium leeches out of the bones to neutralise the body's pH. Taking calcium supplements does little good: The intestinal wall blocks excessive calcium from being absorbed so that internal organs don't calcify (turn into rock!)

That's great info, Travis, thanks. Being vegetarian for the past 15 years has consumed me with dedication to protein intake each day. I'm happy to hear that my concerns have been overstated.

polaris_x

http://www.independent.co.uk/environmen ... 67725.html

weenie

polaris_x wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/wish-you-werent-here-the-devastating-effects-of-the-new-colonialists-1767725.html

Interesting read, thanks.
Those poor Africans, why doesn't someone just drop a bunch of neutron bombs on the continent and be done with it? Why prolong their misery? It seems no one thinks they deserve to live a life without suffering, or to live period. Mankind is just royally fucked up imho. :evil:

tybird

weenie wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/wish-you-werent-here-the-devastating-effects-of-the-new-colonialists-1767725.html

Interesting read, thanks.
Those poor Africans, why doesn't someone just drop a bunch of neutron bombs on the continent and be done with it? Why prolong their misery? It seems no one thinks they deserve to live a life without suffering, or to live period. Mankind is just royally fucked up imho. :evil:

Has the neutron bomb been field-tested???? :twisted:

weenie

tybird wrote:

weenie wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/wish-you-werent-here-the-devastating-effects-of-the-new-colonialists-1767725.html

Interesting read, thanks.
Those poor Africans, why doesn't someone just drop a bunch of neutron bombs on the continent and be done with it? Why prolong their misery? It seems no one thinks they deserve to live a life without suffering, or to live period. Mankind is just royally fucked up imho. :evil:

Has the neutron bomb been field-tested???? :twisted:

More than likely. But I can practically guarantee that you and I will never know about it. :evil:

arthurdent

weenie wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

Those poor Africans, why doesn't someone just drop a bunch of neutron bombs on the continent and be done with it? Why prolong their misery?

Africa doesn't need bombs... they need condoms. And a great big famine to wipe out about half their population. The sad fact of the matter is that there to are too many people in Africa for their agricultural sector to ever sustain them on their own.

cincybearcat

weenie wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/wish-you-werent-here-the-devastating-effects-of-the-new-colonialists-1767725.html

Interesting read, thanks.
Those poor Africans, why doesn't someone just drop a bunch of neutron bombs on the continent and be done with it? Why prolong their misery? It seems no one thinks they deserve to live a life without suffering, or to live period. Mankind is just royally fucked up imho. :evil:

We could pass on the gift of abortion?

arthurdent

cincybearcat wrote:

We could pass on the gift of abortion?

Won't work. For the same reason other forms of birth control don't over there. Too many backwards cultures. The best thing to do is let nature take its course.

tybird

weenie wrote:

tybird wrote:

weenie wrote:

Interesting read, thanks.
Those poor Africans, why doesn't someone just drop a bunch of neutron bombs on the continent and be done with it? Why prolong their misery? It seems no one thinks they deserve to live a life without suffering, or to live period. Mankind is just royally fucked up imho. :evil:

Has the neutron bomb been field-tested???? :twisted:

More than likely. But I can practically guarantee that you and I will never know about it. :evil:

Excellent point, pardner

weenie

tybird wrote:

weenie wrote:

tybird wrote:

Has the neutron bomb been field-tested???? :twisted:

More than likely. But I can practically guarantee that you and I will never know about it. :evil:

Excellent point, pardner

thanks professor.....