How About A Total Abortion Ban?
spearhead
Posts: 600
...Here's how it would work:
Amnesty International Finds Nicaragua's Total Abortion Ban Is Preventing Doctors from Giving Life-Saving Medical Treatment to Pregnant Women and Girls
Fearing Prosection and Potential Risk to Fetus. Doctors Cut Off Treatment For Some Pregnant Women; New Law Called "Callous" Toward Women and Girls
(Mexico City) -- Pregnant women and girls in Nicaragua are being denied life-saving medical treatment as a result of the country's total ban on abortions because doctors are afraid of harming fetuses, which would leave them open to being criminally prosecuted under the severe new law, Amnesty International concludes in a new report today. The new law is contributing to an increase in maternal deaths across the country, Amnesty International found.
The law even goes as far as punishing girls and women who have suffered a miscarriage, as in many cases it is impossible to distinguish spontaneous from induced abortions. Amnesty International delegates also spoke to young girls who, as a result of the abortion ban, were forced to have babies that resulted from rapes involving male relatives.
“There’s only one way to describe what we have seen in Nicaragua: sheer horror,” said Kate Gilmore, Amnesty International’s executive deputy secretary general, at a press conference in Mexico City as she returned from Nicaragua.
“Children are being compelled to bear children. Pregnant women are being denied essential care, including life-saving medical care”
According to official figures, 33 girls and women have died in pregnancy this year, compared to 20 in the same period last year. Amnesty International believes these figures are only a minimum as the government itself has acknowledged that the number of maternal deaths is under-recorded.
The report “The total abortion ban in Nicaragua: Women’s lives and health endangered, medical professionals criminalized” is the first Amnesty International investigation of the human rights implications of the denial of abortion when the life or health of a woman or girl is at risk, including when she is a victim of rape or incest.
Nicaragua’s revised penal code stipulates prison sentences for girls and women who seek an abortion and for health professionals who provide health services associated with abortion. Only 3 percent of the world’s countries have such absolute bans in place.
The new code introduces criminal sanctions for doctors and nurses who treat a pregnant woman or girl for illnesses such as cancer, malaria, HIV/AIDS or cardiac emergencies where such treatment is contraindicated in pregnancy and may cause injury to or death of the embryo or foetus.
This new law is in conflict with the Nicaraguan Obstetric Rules and Protocols issued by the Ministry of Health which mandate therapeutic abortions as clinical responses to specific cases. However, no assurances have been given by the authorities that doctors will not be prosecuted if they respect these Rules.
“Nicaragua’s ban of therapeutic abortion is a disgrace. It is a human rights scandal that ridicules medical science and distorts the law into a weapon against the provision of essential medical care to pregnant girls and women,” said Gilmore.
“Nicaragua’s Penal Code is a callous and cynical artefact of the political wheeling and dealing that took place in the country’s 2006 elections. Today, however, it punishes women and girl children for seeking life-saving medical treatment and doctors for providing it.”
In Nicaragua, the Amnesty International delegation met with human rights organizations, medical professionals, members of the national assembly and the Minister of Health. Despite repeated requests, the National Assembly’s Commission on Women and both President Ortega and his government’s Institute for Women refused to meet the organization to discuss the law’s impact on girl children, women and victims of rape and incest.
Amnesty International delegates met with young girls who, having been subjected to sexual violence at the hands of close family members or friends, were compelled to carry the resulting pregnancies to term –giving birth in many instances to their own brothers or sisters –because they were denied access to alternatives. It is deeply troubling that there was a recorded rise in pregnant teenagers committing suicide by consuming poison in 2008.
Obstetricians, gynaecologists and family doctors in Nicaragua told Amnesty International that under this Penal Code they can no longer legally provide effective medical treatment for life threatening diseases in pregnant women and girls because of the potential risk to the foetus.
One doctor told Amnesty International that she prays she will not receive a patient with an anencephalic pregnancy (a condition which means the foetus cannot survive) because of the prospect of telling the woman she will be compelled to carry the pregnancy to full term, despite its devastating physiological and psychological impact on the woman.
Gilmore said: “Girls pregnant as a result of incest had the courage to meet with us to speak out against the situation but President Ortega did not. It appears the Nicaraguan authorities could not stand up for the law, would not be accountable for the law nor commit themselves to its urgent repeal.”
“What alternatives is this government offering a 10-year-old pregnant as a result of rape? And to a cancer sufferer who is denied life saving treatment just because she is pregnant, while she has other children waiting at home?” said Gilmore.
Amnesty International is urging the Nicaraguan authorities to:
· Immediately repeal the law that bans all forms of abortion.
· Guarantee safe and accessible abortion services for rape victims and women whose lives or health would be at risk from the continuation of pregnancy.
· Protect the freedom of speech of those who speak out against the law and offer comprehensive support to the women and girls affected by the law.
Amnesty International is also calling on Nicaragua’s Supreme Court to issue a decision on the legality and constitutionality of the law as a matter of the utmost urgency.
NOTES:
The launch of the report “The total abortion ban in Nicaragua: Women’s lives and health endangered, medical professionals criminalized” is part of Amnesty International’s Demand Dignity campaign.
The campaign aims to end the human rights violations that drive and deepen global poverty. It will mobilize people all over the world to demand that governments, big corporations and others who have power listen to the voices of those living in poverty and recognise and protect their rights.
“The total abortion ban in Nicaragua: Women’s lives and health endangered, medical professionals criminalized” will be available at www.amnestyusa.org on Monday July 27, 2009.
Testimonies and facts and figures are available to supplement the report.
Amnesty International Finds Nicaragua's Total Abortion Ban Is Preventing Doctors from Giving Life-Saving Medical Treatment to Pregnant Women and Girls
Fearing Prosection and Potential Risk to Fetus. Doctors Cut Off Treatment For Some Pregnant Women; New Law Called "Callous" Toward Women and Girls
(Mexico City) -- Pregnant women and girls in Nicaragua are being denied life-saving medical treatment as a result of the country's total ban on abortions because doctors are afraid of harming fetuses, which would leave them open to being criminally prosecuted under the severe new law, Amnesty International concludes in a new report today. The new law is contributing to an increase in maternal deaths across the country, Amnesty International found.
The law even goes as far as punishing girls and women who have suffered a miscarriage, as in many cases it is impossible to distinguish spontaneous from induced abortions. Amnesty International delegates also spoke to young girls who, as a result of the abortion ban, were forced to have babies that resulted from rapes involving male relatives.
“There’s only one way to describe what we have seen in Nicaragua: sheer horror,” said Kate Gilmore, Amnesty International’s executive deputy secretary general, at a press conference in Mexico City as she returned from Nicaragua.
“Children are being compelled to bear children. Pregnant women are being denied essential care, including life-saving medical care”
According to official figures, 33 girls and women have died in pregnancy this year, compared to 20 in the same period last year. Amnesty International believes these figures are only a minimum as the government itself has acknowledged that the number of maternal deaths is under-recorded.
The report “The total abortion ban in Nicaragua: Women’s lives and health endangered, medical professionals criminalized” is the first Amnesty International investigation of the human rights implications of the denial of abortion when the life or health of a woman or girl is at risk, including when she is a victim of rape or incest.
Nicaragua’s revised penal code stipulates prison sentences for girls and women who seek an abortion and for health professionals who provide health services associated with abortion. Only 3 percent of the world’s countries have such absolute bans in place.
The new code introduces criminal sanctions for doctors and nurses who treat a pregnant woman or girl for illnesses such as cancer, malaria, HIV/AIDS or cardiac emergencies where such treatment is contraindicated in pregnancy and may cause injury to or death of the embryo or foetus.
This new law is in conflict with the Nicaraguan Obstetric Rules and Protocols issued by the Ministry of Health which mandate therapeutic abortions as clinical responses to specific cases. However, no assurances have been given by the authorities that doctors will not be prosecuted if they respect these Rules.
“Nicaragua’s ban of therapeutic abortion is a disgrace. It is a human rights scandal that ridicules medical science and distorts the law into a weapon against the provision of essential medical care to pregnant girls and women,” said Gilmore.
“Nicaragua’s Penal Code is a callous and cynical artefact of the political wheeling and dealing that took place in the country’s 2006 elections. Today, however, it punishes women and girl children for seeking life-saving medical treatment and doctors for providing it.”
In Nicaragua, the Amnesty International delegation met with human rights organizations, medical professionals, members of the national assembly and the Minister of Health. Despite repeated requests, the National Assembly’s Commission on Women and both President Ortega and his government’s Institute for Women refused to meet the organization to discuss the law’s impact on girl children, women and victims of rape and incest.
Amnesty International delegates met with young girls who, having been subjected to sexual violence at the hands of close family members or friends, were compelled to carry the resulting pregnancies to term –giving birth in many instances to their own brothers or sisters –because they were denied access to alternatives. It is deeply troubling that there was a recorded rise in pregnant teenagers committing suicide by consuming poison in 2008.
Obstetricians, gynaecologists and family doctors in Nicaragua told Amnesty International that under this Penal Code they can no longer legally provide effective medical treatment for life threatening diseases in pregnant women and girls because of the potential risk to the foetus.
One doctor told Amnesty International that she prays she will not receive a patient with an anencephalic pregnancy (a condition which means the foetus cannot survive) because of the prospect of telling the woman she will be compelled to carry the pregnancy to full term, despite its devastating physiological and psychological impact on the woman.
Gilmore said: “Girls pregnant as a result of incest had the courage to meet with us to speak out against the situation but President Ortega did not. It appears the Nicaraguan authorities could not stand up for the law, would not be accountable for the law nor commit themselves to its urgent repeal.”
“What alternatives is this government offering a 10-year-old pregnant as a result of rape? And to a cancer sufferer who is denied life saving treatment just because she is pregnant, while she has other children waiting at home?” said Gilmore.
Amnesty International is urging the Nicaraguan authorities to:
· Immediately repeal the law that bans all forms of abortion.
· Guarantee safe and accessible abortion services for rape victims and women whose lives or health would be at risk from the continuation of pregnancy.
· Protect the freedom of speech of those who speak out against the law and offer comprehensive support to the women and girls affected by the law.
Amnesty International is also calling on Nicaragua’s Supreme Court to issue a decision on the legality and constitutionality of the law as a matter of the utmost urgency.
NOTES:
The launch of the report “The total abortion ban in Nicaragua: Women’s lives and health endangered, medical professionals criminalized” is part of Amnesty International’s Demand Dignity campaign.
The campaign aims to end the human rights violations that drive and deepen global poverty. It will mobilize people all over the world to demand that governments, big corporations and others who have power listen to the voices of those living in poverty and recognise and protect their rights.
“The total abortion ban in Nicaragua: Women’s lives and health endangered, medical professionals criminalized” will be available at www.amnestyusa.org on Monday July 27, 2009.
Testimonies and facts and figures are available to supplement the report.
I was alone and far away when I heard the band start playing!
...I was always a DeadHead, but when I first heard Winston Rodney, aka the Burning Spear, sing, I became a SpearHead too!
...I was always a DeadHead, but when I first heard Winston Rodney, aka the Burning Spear, sing, I became a SpearHead too!
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:evil: :evil: :evil:
:( :( :(
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
The idea that if a woman has a miscarriage, she basically has to "prove" that it wasn't an abortion... I can't even comprehend or put into words how horrific that must be.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
seriously.
or have to cartry to term a fetus that is destined to die or be dead upon delivery, or a child forced to give birth to their half-brother or sister, or any child as the result of rape....or a woman denied medical care b/c it may harm the fetus, meanwhile, perhaps she will die b/c of cancer? sickening...
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Not really...that's how it's working in Nicaragua.
know1 already said what I was thinking.
so outside risk of health of the mother, a girl/woman should be forced to continue a pregnancy if:
-she was raped, even if raped by a family member, such as her father....thus giving birth to her own brother or sister?
- anencephalic pregnancy (a condition which means the fetus cannot survive) despite its devastating physiological and psychological impact on the woman.
not baiting, merely curious...b/c all know1 definitely addressed was health/survival of the mother.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I couldn't finish reading the article as it made me really angry that they're practically imposing sickness and possible death to the living (the mothers) in order to try and save a fetus. Who's to say which life is more precious?
What if one or the other will survive?
So how, specifically, would you have a total abortion ban without it working like in Nicaragua? (Yes, I read know1's post, but it didn't answer my question either.)
P.S. You can't redefine abortion.
Pretty sure I've stated my beliefs on this before.
If the fetus cannot survive, that is one thing. However, the issue gets extremely messy when it comes to rape/incest. A few years ago, I was initially in favor of allowing abortions in those cases. However, after much thought, my gut feeling now is that the baby is innocent and since I believe abortion is killing a baby, I don't think abortion should be an option in those cases. I'm not 100% sold one way or the other because of how difficult a situation it is, but that is how I feel. Now, if at sometime I can be convinced that the health of the mother is at risk in those cases (mental health in those cases I would think), I might be able to be swayed. It is the most difficult question in the abortion debate for me.
Fine, it's just semantics anyhow. I felt the OP might be sensationalizing what anti-abortion (most, not all) in the US really think should happen.
I believe that anyone who is pro-life should be ready and able to take care of any saved infant. After all that's what you're fighting for, right? And if that said baby wasn't wanted, it should be expected that those faithfully fighting for these babies should be ready and willing to raise them.
That is pure crazy talk. I want people to be responsible and not to kill someone else in order to stay irresponsible. Let's go along with your thought process...how do you feel about animals on factory farms? How about death row inmates that are about to be killed?
Is the 10-year-old victim of incent not innocent as well?
Well, I think most anti-abortion folks in the U.S. are not in support of a TOTAL ban on abortions. I believe this post is only speaking to those who are. Are you saying you're not in favor of a total ban? Or are you saying you are in favor of a total ban but don't think it would play out like in Nicaragua? If it's the latter, I would like to know how a TOTAL ban on abortion could play out any other way?
hey cincy, thanks for answering. fair enough, i just wanted to know. and you may've mentioned it in the past, but amazingly, i don't take notes on everyone's different positions on various hot topics
(and ya know, i did pose a Q to you in the other abortion thread...again, pure curiosity. also open to anyone of the pro-life persuasion. just pointing it out b/c it seemingly keeps getting looked over/ignored)
and as ever, demonstrating our differences....there are some of us who don't consider abortion murder, big difference right there.....and also do consider abortion a 'responsible choice' and therefore not promoting irresponsibility. as to your examples.....depending how people feel about animals for food, they may well be a-ok with 'farming' just not the factory part (such as myself) so would simply love to see em free range. or perhaps they are totally against it. hard to rehab animals in that state i'd think, but i do believe there are many animnal sanctuaries...so perhaps more would support that, and beyond that, just having facotory farming cease would work for the future. as to the death row inmates, outside if being released...do they need adoption to survive? :P the fact that ALL of these creatures are living/breathing/thinking/feeling...also does come into play, but yea...another topic.
and yea, scb....definitely got em on a technicality. :P a TOTAL abortion ban, can work in no other way. otherwise, it would be a partial ban.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Mohandas K. Gandhi
~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
Henry David Thoreau
Absolutely. What's your point?
I already said what I thought. But if you must see it again, I'm not for a total ban. And I think the OP was trying to sensationalize what anti-abortion people think , which, in my opinion, really hurts discussion on the matter.
actuaklly, it is entirely dependent on your perspective...and also dependent on just how much you infer and what was the OP's actul intent. me, i think it was simply meant to spur discussion/thought....and most especially to realize what a TOTAL abortion ban would entail. i personally do believe waaaayyyy too many people look at abortion as a 'convenience' and a way to avoid responsibility, and this ban clearly demonstrates that for many, that is NOT the case at all. you may personally not be for a total ban, but i sure as shit hear enough people in this country clamoring for one. so i think this thread is very relevant and does not hurt the dicsussion in the least. it IS important to realize, imo anyway, that abortion IS quite necessary for many women and girls.....and it's not all avoidance of responsibility (tho as ever, pov, b/c i believe abortion IS a responsible choice as well as any other).
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Fair enough. Personally, I htink discussing the fringes of issues is non-productive. The middle is where the meat of the matter is (or tofu depending on how you swing).
It'b be like us discussing only the cases when women have received 3+ abortions. The fringe.
And I'm not advocating we kill her.
i'm glad you went there....because, yes, exactly. and in that 'other' abortion thread, that IS exactly where it went in focus, many times....the fringe. and i agree, focusing on the extremes is really unproductive. however, i do think this thread simply is pointing out just what a total ban truly would be like, b/c again, i do believe there are people who think it would be a 'good' thing, without actually thinking of all the instances where abortion truly is necessary. obviously, you and i disagree even there as i am 100% for a girl/woman to have an abortion in all cases of rape, but sure the medically necessary areas are where most i think could agree to some common ground. i just thought this thread was presented as a good snapshot of what it could well be like if abortion was made absolutely illegal in all instances.
and look at you, being all PC.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
no.
but you ARE advocating she suffer for something done to her against her will, and in some instances...give birth to her own brother or sister! :shock: seriously, factor in the young age, the brutality of rape, the lack of choice, the possibility that a family member may've done this, the absolute psychological damage such may do to a young girl, hell, even a grown woman. the girl or woman is innocent, and sure, the potential human life inside is innocent. difference is, the girl or woman already exists out in the world, can think and feel pain, etc....whereas the embryo or fetus cannot.
imagine this - what if it was your wife or sister or daughter? would you truly want to force them to give birth to a child that was the result of rape when they don't want to? obviously, some women may choose to keep the pregnancy, but i do believe the option should be theirs. then again, i believe it always should be the girl/woman's decision, no matter the circumstance of her pregancy.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
That's exactly how I try and look at the situation.
Why should she be made to suffer further?
you basically are unsure what you personally believe should be done?
definitely fair enough....and also why i personally believe it's a good idea to leave such a decision with the thinking/feeling person who Is most effected by it, ie, the mother.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I think it's also important to remember the situation the unborn "baby" would be born into and whether or not it will be good for that child (given that it wasn't good for his/her sister).
I can see some logic in that, but it's pretty narrow minded and attempts to stereotype this down into two distinct sides who are comprised of people who have the same exact reasons for supporting or opposing.
It's kind of like the stereotype that all people who are against abortion are Christians or religious.
To make it personal, I a consider myself anti-abortion not pro-life when it comes to this issue.
And to argue the opposite, I could say that I think anyone who has sex should be ready and able to take care of the resulting child (let's exclude rape here for the sake of argument).
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
But the fringes are where you get all of the arguments when you offer a position that is directed to the middle. That's why I likely won't post too much more in this thread. It just goes around in circles.
The majority of people getting abortions were not pregnant because of rape, yet that is where people point as soon as you oppose it.
That
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.