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black:we belong together or we dont belong together?

dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam Posts: 139,721
edited July 2009 in The Porch
any thoughts?what feets better with the lyrics?lets hear u out.im with ..we DONT belong together.. :) or not? :mrgreen:
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
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  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,224
    dimitrispearljam wrote:
    any thoughts?what feets better with the lyrics?lets hear u out.im with ..we DONT belong together.. :) or not? :mrgreen:
    Well, I hope that Eddie will not be singing "don't" belong together, that would be bad news.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Tremor-ChrisTremor-Chris Posts: 233
    I see your argument for we don't belong together, but I feel we belong together fits with the overall emotion of the song better.

    -Chris
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will know peace.
  • Ms. HaikuMs. Haiku Washington DC Posts: 7,289
    I would think that many lyrics are written based on the emotion of the moment. The main character in Black is obviously feeling a bit blue. However, that doesn't mean when life is evaluated, and all the dogs are walked, that the feeling is the same or not the same. I think what feels better with the lyrics is that in the main character's view We Belong Together. The main character is in pain, and is finding solace in memories or drowning his sorrows in the blackness of night. It feels like an evaulation during a short amount of time; just part of a day at most.
    There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam Posts: 139,721
    Ms. Haiku wrote:
    I would think that many lyrics are written based on the emotion of the moment. The main character in Black is obviously feeling a bit blue. However, that doesn't mean when life is evaluated, and all the dogs are walked, that the feeling is the same or not the same. I think what feels better with the lyrics is that in the main character's view We Belong Together. The main character is in pain, and is finding solace in memories or drowning his sorrows in the blackness of night. It feels like an evaulation during a short amount of time; just part of a day at most.
    got u,but he knows that she is gonna be a star in someone else's sky,why cant it be his/couse they dont belong together..i wish they belong too but they dont.couse love is so hard.most of the time stays unfinnished
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam Posts: 139,721

    But it's the third time this week for this one...    [/quote]
    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • AnotherTourPleaseAnotherTourPlease Posts: 487
    Might as well be we DON'T belong together if Ed is going to change "I KNOW you'll be a star . . . " to "I HOPE you'll be a star . . . " For me, that one word change ruins the whole feel of the song. I just can't see someone who is desperately heartbroken saying they HOPE she'll be important in somebody else's life. First time I heard that change I thought to myself that Eddie no longer feels the story in the song. :?
  • mrveddersonmrvedderson Posts: 784
    dimitrispearljam wrote:
    any thoughts?what feets better with the lyrics?lets hear u out.im with ..we DONT belong together.. :) or not? :mrgreen:

    we Dont is the right way it seems to me, or at least the most hopeful,
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam Posts: 139,721
    mrvedderson wrote:
    dimitrispearljam wrote:
    any thoughts?what feets better with the lyrics?lets hear u out.im with ..we DONT belong together.. :) or not? :mrgreen:

    we Dont is the right way it seems to me, or at least the most hopeful,
    yes the most hopeful..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam Posts: 139,721
    lynarts wrote:
    Might as well be we DON'T belong together if Ed is going to change "I KNOW you'll be a star . . . " to "I HOPE you'll be a star . . . " For me, that one word change ruins the whole feel of the song. I just can't see someone who is desperately heartbroken saying they HOPE she'll be important in somebody else's life. First time I heard that change I thought to myself that Eddie no longer feels the story in the song. :?
    this change must that way
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • Sleep.With.InnocenceSleep.With.Innocence Posts: 607
    dimitrispearljam wrote:
    lynarts wrote:
    Might as well be we DON'T belong together if Ed is going to change "I KNOW you'll be a star . . . " to "I HOPE you'll be a star . . . " For me, that one word change ruins the whole feel of the song. I just can't see someone who is desperately heartbroken saying they HOPE she'll be important in somebody else's life. First time I heard that change I thought to myself that Eddie no longer feels the story in the song. :?
    this change must that way

    He wrote that song about Beth. I'm assuming that change happened after he and Beth split. But the song has become more than a love song (That's what it was) to Beth, it's become a powerful song that almost everyone can relate to at some stage in their life.

    Anyway, regardless of who the song is for, if the the ending tag was "we don't belong together" it defeats the whole purpose of the song. Eddie would never sing that.
  • grdesigner79grdesigner79 Posts: 186
    Go listen to Black from 3/16/92 again and your question will be answered.
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam Posts: 139,721
    Sleep.With.Innocence wrote:
    dimitrispearljam wrote:
    lynarts wrote:
    Might as well be we DON'T belong together if Ed is going to change "I KNOW you'll be a star . . . " to "I HOPE you'll be a star . . . " For me, that one word change ruins the whole feel of the song. I just can't see someone who is desperately heartbroken saying they HOPE she'll be important in somebody else's life. First time I heard that change I thought to myself that Eddie no longer feels the story in the song. :?
    this change must that way

    He wrote that song about Beth. I'm assuming that change happened after he and Beth split. But the song has become more than a love song (That's what it was) to Beth, it's become a powerful song that almost everyone can relate to at some stage in their life.

    Anyway, regardless of who the song is for, if the the ending tag was "we don't belong together" it defeats the whole purpose of the song. Eddie would never sing that.
    the time of the change is not the same with this splitand now is a powerful song for everybody couse of the words why cant it be mine,,dont tell me there is one that didnt wish to be in someones life
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • TravisTheSkyTravisTheSky Posts: 615
    "We belong together" is a desperate plea by a father to be reunited with his unborn child. I know that everyone needs Black to be about a breakup. But that premise doesn't compare in gravitas to a dead kid!

    Follow my logic here:
    1. "Sheets of empty canvas, untouched sheets of clay" are metaphors for a foetus that never lived.

    2. "I'm surrounded by some kids at play. I can feel their laughter, so why do I sear?" It's not being around happy loving couples that make him sear, it is specifically CHILDREN.

    3. "My bitter hands cradle broken glass." Not contain, not hold, but CRADLE.

    4. "Five horizons revolved around the soul." Most posters quote this line as "HER soul." In the Unplugged version, I can clearly hear "THE soul," meaning of neither gender. Interpereting five horizons is always a clumsy fit. My take on it is that a pregnancy lasted for five months or weeks. Also, the song could have been written five years since the soul came into existence.

    5. "I know someday you'll have a beautiful life." Is a wish for reincarnation. If it referred to an ex, then we have to infer that the woman never had a beautiful day in her life, ever. If the beauty can only come in the future, then she's never had it- not in childhood, not in teenage years, not during the relationship. And how can the narrator KNOW his ex will have a beautiful life? Based on what? She's never had one before.

    6. "I hope/know you will be a star/sun in somebody else's sky." Fits with the reincarnation theory. A wanted child welcomed by loving parents is the centre of their world.

    7. "But why can't it be mine? We belong together." I cannot begin to understand the agony a man would go through after an abortion, no matter how pro-choice. EV wrote an article for Spin Magazine in the 90s explaining his personal abortion story. To paraphrase, he wrote: 'My child would be ten years old. I may have another child someday.' He is famously, politically, pro-choice. Yet he calls his aborted foetus "My Child." He is screaming out all of his grief when he sings, "We belong together!"
    "May you live in interesting times."
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam Posts: 139,721
    WOW!! :shock:
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • illegal pantsillegal pants Posts: 13,471
    right now don't for me
    wah
  • DreamOfAngelsDreamOfAngels Posts: 829
    There is a really interesting post from a teacher that uses Black in his class room to help teach students about poetry. http://www.artistfacts.com/detail.php?id=112 He says: "we go over Imagery, Metaphor, Mood, Tone, and Symbolism. In addition, we examine the emotional temperature of the piece." It's an interesting break down and interpretation of the song and its meaning, stanza by stanza.

    One of the responses to this post said "I just can't see someone who is desperately heartbroken saying they HOPE she'll be important in somebody else's life." I would argue that when you really know 'true love', you wish the best for that person even if it can't be with you. There is a definite pain when he would sing "we belong together" but maybe at some point you realize that even though you love someone so much, you don't belong together... they may have a better relationship with someone else and so can you. As Ed once said "It's the healing power of music..."

    If the response that describes Black as being about an abortion, I can't imagine the words "we don't belong together" working. Distance from the pain of a relationship, COULD allow a person to admit that they don't belong together....

    So in terms of answering the question of which goes best with this song, I would say we should remember how Ed described the transformation of Alive after the crowds clearly had a different interpretation of what the song was saying... so the meaning of the song changed for him. Maybe that's what happened with Black? Ed changes the lyrics to several songs in shows based on what he is feeling at that moment... If he did sing it with "don't", then maybe the meaning has changed. Maybe he has a new perspective.

    I am posting this without knowing whether he has actually sang it with these different words or if you are just asking what makes more sense.. so sorry if i just turned down some side street.
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam Posts: 139,721
    DreamOfAngels wrote:
    There is a really interesting post from a teacher that uses Black in his class room to help teach students about poetry. http://www.artistfacts.com/detail.php?id=112 He says: "we go over Imagery, Metaphor, Mood, Tone, and Symbolism. In addition, we examine the emotional temperature of the piece." It's an interesting break down and interpretation of the song and its meaning, stanza by stanza.

    One of the responses to this post said "I just can't see someone who is desperately heartbroken saying they HOPE she'll be important in somebody else's life." I would argue that when you really know 'true love', you wish the best for that person even if it can't be with you. There is a definite pain when he would sing "we belong together" but maybe at some point you realize that even though you love someone so much, you don't belong together... they may have a better relationship with someone else and so can you. As Ed once said "It's the healing power of music..."

    If the response that describes Black as being about an abortion, I can't imagine the words "we don't belong together" working. Distance from the pain of a relationship, COULD allow a person to admit that they don't belong together....

    So in terms of answering the question of which goes best with this song, I would say we should remember how Ed described the transformation of Alive after the crowds clearly had a different interpretation of what the song was saying... so the meaning of the song changed for him. Maybe that's what happened with Black? Ed changes the lyrics to several songs in shows based on what he is feeling at that moment... If he did sing it with "don't", then maybe the meaning has changed. Maybe he has a new perspective.

    I am posting this without knowing whether he has actually sang it with these different words or if you are just asking what makes more sense.. so sorry if i just turned down some side street.
    i read it about 2-3 months ago i remember..amazing.really this theacher is all the money!!!!
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam Posts: 139,721
    illegal pants wrote:
    right now don't for me
    8-)
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • joberschlakejoberschlake Columbus, OH Posts: 1,179
    I've seen different tags at the end of Black:

    1. We Belong Together.
    2. Make The Pain Go Away (Gorge 06).
    3. I thought we belonged together, but I was wrong... DC 08.

    All of them have been very powerful statements and moving, and all very different. Personally my favorite was the DC 08 tag. For me it didn't ruin the song at all that Ed tagged it with something that was more about moving on than grieving a loss. When I see/hear Black live, I don't care which tag it gets, as I enjoy them all. I think Black is one of the most emotional songs that PJ performs live, and you can see it by the raw emotion it's delivered with on stage. Every time they play this live, it gives me a chill. Everyone has their own preference, but I'm good with whatever Ed feels like tagging it with. The tags extend the song, and make it unique to the show you're at.
    1998: Cleveland
    2000: Cincinnati, Columbus
    2003: Cleveland, Columbus
    2004: Toledo
    2006: Cleveland, Cincinnati, Gorge Night 1
    2008: Washington D.C.
    2009: Chicago Night 1, Seattle Night 1, Philadelphia Night 3, Philadelphia Night 4
    2010: Columbus, Indianapolis, Cleveland
    2011: Detroit EV, Chicago 1 EV
    2012: Atlanta
    2013: Chicago, Pittsburgh
    2014: Cincinnati
  • Brisk.Brisk. Posts: 11,567
    we belong together is better.
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam Posts: 139,721
    I BrisK I wrote:
    we belong together is better.
    8-)
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
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