on the marital front....good news!

decides2dream

i posted this on the AET, but it certainly is a relevant topic right here on the MT. i know i have always believed that half of all marriages end in divorce, and even worse for second marriages, etc. well, it does indeed seem to be turning a corner. is marriage dying? looks like not:



At last count, America's divorce rate had fallen to 36 percent, its lowest level since 1970. That's because, on the whole, most of us like being married, and so do our spouses. And while there are certain challenges inherent in waking up next to the same guy for 5,379 mornings in a row, many so-called "inevitable" marriage pitfalls are really just unexamined old wives' tales. On closer inspection, two facts become clear: There's only a trace of truth in each fable — but there's also the potential to retool them to make your relationship even closer.

http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/ ... id=8319123


the rest of the article is about improving your marriage, was an opening article on MSN....but i thought that one tidbit in particular...definitely worth sharing.



given all the freedom and choice to pave our own way, and yet...marriage is turning around. i wonder what is truly helping that along. interesting....and i think positive.

_

That's cool! Thanks for posting.

I wonder if more marriages are working these days because people aren't feeling as pressured as they used to to get married, so they're making better choices about who and when they marry. :?

WaveCameCrashin

That's good to hear.

decides2dream

scb wrote:

That's cool! Thanks for posting.

I wonder if more marriages are working these days because people aren't feeling as pressured as they used to to get married, so they're making better choices about who and when they marry. :?

i personally think so.
i think, at least initially....it is also a reason why divorce grew and grew...women had more independence, financially and otherwise.....but the pressures to conform were still present, so bad marital decisions. sure, bad decisions are still made, will continue to still be made...but i think, as ever, a better balance of freedom/independence...and actually CHOOSING, truly, who and when one wants to marry...if ever.....makes fora better shot at truly wanting to make it work. i know in the article, it mentions that commitment/work...and i believe slowly, more and more realize and are truly willing to mae that commitment. i think it's all good news! i believe the marriages that last - better than ever! b/c it is based on the real choice, all on your own, simply b/c two people WANT to make it as a married couple.


edit - this part on page 2:

A marriage doesn't run on feelings — it thrives because both spouses work hard on it .

"We need to give long-term partners credit for their marriages," says Diane Sollee, M.S.W., director of smartmarriages.com. "These couples have probably worked their way through hundreds of disagreements, illnesses, financial problems, kids' issues, maybe even an affair. They survive because they understand that they are a team, and they work to find ways to come together, whether in a crisis or in good times."

The truth is, we all change constantly, and that's a blessing. "If you sprayed fixative on people during their wedding ceremony," says Sollee, "life would just be too boring." But make sure you and your husband are checking in regularly with each other, and that all the little marital compromises and negotiations are making you both feel happy and involved in each other's evolving lives. That way, you can grow together, rather than apart, and, if anything, feel more in love than ever.

soulsinging

As I said there, this article's a real downer, because I was hoping this one was true:

"husbands ditching their wives for younger women... If getting the kids into college didn't force us apart, it seems, then a 20-something blond will."

decides2dream

soulsinging wrote:

As I said there, this article's a real downer, because I was hoping this one was true:

"husbands ditching their wives for younger women... If getting the kids into college didn't force us apart, it seems, then a 20-something blond will."

and as i said....no worries...that can still hold true for YOUR marriage if you want it to...your lucky bride! :?


you're just always a ray of sunshine...aren't ya? you're one of the first to lament the demise of marriage in discussions..give you a bit of a positive trend in the works...and all you see is negative.

soulsinging

edit... i'll confine it to the AET!

Cosmo

I always wonder about statistics... not the actual data itself... but, the data gathering and compiling.
...
Are they talking about first time marriages... or divorced people getting re-married. From what I have seen... and i know it is not scientific and purely anticdotal... marriages seem to stick better, the second time around. I know people who were married young... divorced young... re-married when they were a little older... and are still married.
...
Anyway... marriage is good... for some people... i guess.

decides2dream

Cosmo wrote:

I always wonder about statistics... not the actual data itself... but, the data gathering and compiling.
...
Are they talking about first time marriages... or divorced people getting re-married. From what I have seen... and i know it is not scientific and purely anticdotal... marriages seem to stick better, the second time around. I know people who were married young... divorced young... re-married when they were a little older... and are still married.
...
Anyway... marriage is good... for some people... i guess.

i agree with your last statement, absolutely.


as to the rest, obviously in this particular study, we just don't know....didn't exactly give much beyond that one stat since it isn't actually the focus of the article. that said, i have always read that 2nd and 3rd marriages actually fare worse than first in regards to divorce...tho of course i do know people just as you say, but i also happen to know more with first marriages that lasted, so who knows. i would think they are discussing marriages, overall....since they are saying divorce, overall, is at an all-time low....

Cosmo

decides2dream wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

I always wonder about statistics... not the actual data itself... but, the data gathering and compiling.
...
Are they talking about first time marriages... or divorced people getting re-married. From what I have seen... and i know it is not scientific and purely anticdotal... marriages seem to stick better, the second time around. I know people who were married young... divorced young... re-married when they were a little older... and are still married.
...
Anyway... marriage is good... for some people... i guess.

i agree with your last statement, absolutely.


as to the rest, obviously in this particular study, we just don't know....didn't exactly give much beyond that one stat since it isn't actually the focus of the article. that said, i have always read that 2nd and 3rd marriages actually fare worse than first in regards to divorce...tho of course i do know people just as you say, but i also happen to know more with first marriages that lasted, so who knows. i would think they are discussing marriages, overall....since they are saying divorce, overall, is at an all-time low....

...
I don't believe stated statistics without the methodology that goes behind the numbers because I can say that 90% of statistics that are quoted are incorrect... 50% of the time. Which is merely numbers pulled out of thin air.
And yeah... i know habitual divorcees, too. But, I do know a lot of people that are on their second (or third marriages) and have been together for a long time.
I guess the best thing is... people need to do what's best for them.

Lauri

I don't think the reason for the drop in divorce is because more people like being married. I think the reason for the drop is that people are becoming increasingly more selective in their choice to get married in the first place. The age of first marriage is increasing significantly, and less people are ever getting married than ever before. This would suggest to me that people are making more informed and better decisions going into marriage and therefore getting divorced less. All around it is good thing. People are no longer feeling obligated to get married if it's not for them, people are feeling more able to end relationships that are either bad (e.g. abuse) or just not very good, people are leading more well-rounded lives in which marriage is merely one aspect, and those people who do marry are doing so for good reasons and better relationships. I have also read, however, that divorce rates decrease significantly during economic downturns, and that makes sense as well: people can't afford to get divorced and the economic benefits of marriage are too important to retain.

When you think about marriage in the 20th century, at first people were sort of required to get married, whether they really wanted to or not. But divorce was also more difficult legally, culturally, and economically. Then as you moved to the middle of the century, there was still this sort of social norm of getting married, but divorce became a lot more feasible. That combination, I am guessing, is what made divorce rates so high. Now, we all the option of getting married and the option of getting divorced, but the cost of divorce may be making it even more prohibitive! Therefore, I think it is clear that divorce rates would drop.

Overall the American view of marriage is completely unique. I read something about a book that was just released (and damned if I can remember the name) about how kids are affected by divorce. The argument is that kids are ok with single parents, but when parents get into serious relationship after serious relationship that's not good for kids. The author argues that Americans put so much emphasis on the importance of marriage and/or serious monogamous relationships but at the same time are somehow less able to actually be monogamous. This creates a problem that people just go from serious relationship to serious relationship, putting all their eggs in one basket and then moving them to another. I think it is all so interesting.

Lauri

Cosmo wrote:

I always wonder about statistics... not the actual data itself... but, the data gathering and compiling.
...
Are they talking about first time marriages... or divorced people getting re-married. From what I have seen... and i know it is not scientific and purely anticdotal... marriages seem to stick better, the second time around. I know people who were married young... divorced young... re-married when they were a little older... and are still married.
...
Anyway... marriage is good... for some people... i guess.

I've been reading a lot about the data and statistics on marriage lately, and you are right- most studies on marriage are really shoddy in the first place, and often the the results are summarized in dubious ways by the studies' authors. If a study passes muster itself, if it makes it into the mainstream media, the report will completely misrepresent the study design and the underlying data. This happens in a lot of different studies, but there is a lot of political and financial influence to present marriage in a certain light.

justam

I think there's a lot that is positive about keeping relationships in good health over a long time. I think people have to learn how to adjust to others and find a way to creatively get along. The skills required are useful in general and transferable to all sorts of situations.

Cosmo

Lauri wrote:

When you think about marriage in the 20th century, at first people were sort of required to get married, whether they really wanted to or not. But divorce was also more difficult legally, culturally, and economically. Then as you moved to the middle of the century, there was still this sort of social norm of getting married, but divorce became a lot more feasible. That combination, I am guessing, is what made divorce rates so high. Now, we all the option of getting married and the option of getting divorced, but the cost of divorce may be making it even more prohibitive! Therefore, I think it is clear that divorce rates would drop.

...
I think you're absolutely right on this one. The stigma of a divorcee in the 1940s and 50 is completely obsolete today. Back then, they were pretty much considered social lepers. So, they stayed together... hated each other, but stayed together.
And on your other points... waiting longer, being more selective, etc... has a lot to do with it.
...
I wonder... have the number of marriages increased, decrease or remained the same for that same timeframe? Gonna go check...

decides2dream

Cosmo wrote:

Lauri wrote:

When you think about marriage in the 20th century, at first people were sort of required to get married, whether they really wanted to or not. But divorce was also more difficult legally, culturally, and economically. Then as you moved to the middle of the century, there was still this sort of social norm of getting married, but divorce became a lot more feasible. That combination, I am guessing, is what made divorce rates so high. Now, we all the option of getting married and the option of getting divorced, but the cost of divorce may be making it even more prohibitive! Therefore, I think it is clear that divorce rates would drop.

...
I think you're absolutely right on this one. The stigma of a divorcee in the 1940s and 50 is completely obsolete today. Back then, they were pretty much considered social lepers. So, they stayed together... hated each other, but stayed together.
And on your other points... waiting longer, being more selective, etc... has a lot to do with it.
...
I wonder... have the number of marriages increased, decrease or remained the same for that same timeframe? Gonna go check...

i would think decreased...but all the more reason i would think those that DO marry and stick it out, do so b/c they are happy in their situation for ALL the reasons offerred. no matter what, i think it is a 'positive'...and that may be my own skewed logic on it, or the trtuh, idk....but i'll take it as i do. marriage nowadays absolutely is not a necessity by any stretch, so i would hope that anyone who does marry does so because they want to....and sticks it out b/c it brings joy to their lives.

Cosmo

decides2dream wrote:

...i would think decreased...but all the more reason i would think those that DO marry and stick it out, do so b/c they are happy in their situation for ALL the reasons offerred. no matter what, i think it is a 'positive'...and that may be my own skewed logic on it, or the trtuh, idk....but i'll take it as i do. marriage nowadays absolutely is not a necessity by any stretch, so i would hope that anyone who does marry does so because they want to....and sticks it out b/c it brings joy to their lives.

...
and that's the bottom line, really. If someone brings joy to your life... and you to theirs... stay together.
'Cuz, trust me... there ain't much joy out here in the single's pool.

Lauri

Cosmo wrote:

there ain't much joy out here in the single's pool.

haha wow, speak for yourself! It all comes down to the individual- I know miserable married people and joyful single people. And don't forget there are plenty of great things about being single!

Lauri

Cosmo wrote:

Lauri wrote:

When you think about marriage in the 20th century, at first people were sort of required to get married, whether they really wanted to or not. But divorce was also more difficult legally, culturally, and economically. Then as you moved to the middle of the century, there was still this sort of social norm of getting married, but divorce became a lot more feasible. That combination, I am guessing, is what made divorce rates so high. Now, we all the option of getting married and the option of getting divorced, but the cost of divorce may be making it even more prohibitive! Therefore, I think it is clear that divorce rates would drop.

...
I think you're absolutely right on this one. The stigma of a divorcee in the 1940s and 50 is completely obsolete today. Back then, they were pretty much considered social lepers. So, they stayed together... hated each other, but stayed together.
And on your other points... waiting longer, being more selective, etc... has a lot to do with it.
...
I wonder... have the number of marriages increased, decrease or remained the same for that same timeframe? Gonna go check...

I believe that the marriage rate has dropped significantly, and the age of first marriage has definitely risen.

Lauri

decides2dream wrote:

marriage nowadays absolutely is not a necessity by any stretch, so i would hope that anyone who does marry does so because they want to....and sticks it out b/c it brings joy to their lives.

well I don't know if that is completely true. It still can be a necessity for some people. There are countless economic benefits to marriage, which may be a reason the divorce rate has dropped. While a lot of people can definitely get by single, I would suspect there's still a lot of people out there who get married out of necessity. Especially if you have a kid or something like that. Also I think that there are still a lot of women in this country who are not afforded opportunities to educate themselves and stuff, and marriage could be their only option. There are also still a lot of cultures in the U.S. that don't allow for singles (I'm thinking fundamentalist Christians, certain immigrant groups, etc). There is even still arranged marriage in this country. While technically you might you be able to survive if you rebel and don't get married, it would require a really big sacrifice.