see, people don't like being treated like less than human and slaughtered while they expand illegal settlements. maybe it's not that they hate the jews but they hate been treated like this by them?
if Mexico or Canada was occupying your town illegally and illegally destroying american homes to build even more illegal homes while pretty much putting you on reservations with jack shit while the children in those areas suffered from acute malnutrition because while they just continue killing 25.75 minors and 14.98 adults for every 1 Mexican or Canadian would there ever come to a point you would react?
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I was considering responding but I think it's nothing but a question that distracts people from discussing the actual issues, i.e. it's irrelevant to any actual discussion on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
I was considering responding but I think it's nothing but a question that distracts people from discussing the actual issues, i.e. it's irrelevant to any actual discussion on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
so its irrelevant to discuss the crimes committed by Hamas. nice
if Mexico or Canada was occupying your town illegally and illegally destroying american homes to build even more illegal homes while pretty much putting you on reservations with jack shit while the children in those areas suffered from acute malnutrition because while they just continue killing 25.75 minors and 14.98 adults for every 1 Mexican or Canadian would there ever come to a point you would react?
impossible for me to answer unless I was in the situation. but if you're wondering if I would start targeting innocent Mexicans or Canadians living in areas they stole, the answer is no.
I was considering responding but I think it's nothing but a question that distracts people from discussing the actual issues, i.e. it's irrelevant to any actual discussion on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
so its irrelevant to discuss the crimes committed by Hamas. nice
don't put fucking words in my mouth. it is irrelevant to discuss what would happen IF Hamas' rockets hit their intended targets.
The same way you excuse decades of palestinian massacres of innocent civillians. You ignore decades of their cold blooded murdering of civillians of all nationalities. Whats your excuse there? Maybe Jewish life is unimportant to you and you wonder why you find yourself volunteering to defend yourself as not an anti-semite when you havent even been accused of it??? That and your almost total denial of the impact of the holocaust puts you in a particular class. Doesnt it?
What does the holocaust have to do with the illegal Israeli occupation?
Hey genius. Israel gave Gaza back genius and Hamas promptly turned into a missile launching platform. In no time flat.
Hey genius, can you read?
Norman Finkelstein:
'In a study entitled 'One Big Prison', the respected Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem observed that the crippling economic arrangements Israel had imposed on Gaza would remain in place. In addition, Israel would continue to maintain absolute control over Gaza's land borders, coastline, and airspace, and the Israeli army would continue to operate in Gaza. "So long as these methods of control remain in Israeli hands," B'Tselem concluded, "Israel's claim of 'an end of the Occupation' is questionable". HRW (Human Rights Watch) was even more emphatic that evacuating settlers and troops from inside Gaza would not end the occupation: "Whether the Israeli army is inside Gaza or redeployed around it's periphery, and restricting entrance and exit, it remains in control."
'In a stunning admission, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's senior adviser said that the purpose of the Israeli government's policy was to supend diplomatic moves to establish a Palestinian state. "The significance of the 'disengagement' plan is the freezing of the peace process," Dov Weissglas told Haaretz.
Weissglas, an initiator of the plan, explained that the deep freeze would prevent implementation of the "Road Map" backed by the Quartet of the United States, Russia, EU and UN: "when you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Effectively, this whole package called the Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed indefinitely from our agenda. And all this with authority and permission. All with a presidential blessing and the ratification of both houses of Congress."
"The disengagement is actually formaldehyde," he said. "It supplies the amount of formaldehyde that is necessary so there will not be a political process with the Palestinians."
Asked by Haaretz's Ari Shavit why the disengagement plan had been hatched, Weisglass replied: "Because in the fall of 2003 we understood that everything was stuck. And although by the way the Americans read the situation, the blame fell on the Palestinians, not on us, Arik [Sharon] grasped that this state of affairs could not last, that they wouldn't leave us alone, wouldn't get off our case. Time was not on our side. There was international erosion, internal erosion. Domestically, in the meantime, everything was collapsing. The economy was stagnant, and the Geneva Initiative had gained broad support. And then we were hit with the letters of officers and letters of pilots and letters of commandos [refusing to serve in the territories]. These were not weird kids with green ponytails and a ring in their nose with a strong odor of grass. These were people like Spector's group [Yiftah Spector, a renowned Air Force pilot who signed the pilot's letter]. Really our finest young people."
Weisglass trumpets that the main achievement of the Gaza plan was the freezing of the peace process in a "legitimate manner."
"That is exactly what happened," he said. "You know, the term 'peace process' is a bundle of concepts and commitments. The peace process is the establishment of a Palestinian state with all the security risks that entails. The peace process is the evacuation of settlements, it's the return of refugees, it's the partition of Jerusalem. And all that has now been frozen.... [W]hat I effectively agreed to with the Americans was that part of the settlements would not be dealt with at all, and the rest will not be dealt with until the Palestinians turn into Finns. That is the significance of what we did."
Sharon, he said, could also argue "honestly" that the disengagement plan was "a serious move because of which, out of 240,000 settlers, 190,000 will not be moved from their place."
Hamas called for a two state solution? Thats astonishing. If you truly believe that you are truly on some kind of mind altering substance and its pointless to engage in discussion with you people. That's delusional. Hamas charter favors the destruction of Israel. Fucking read something besides Al Jazeera. Dont with my uninformed fools.
I've already quoted what the Zionist leadership believes. Where was your outrage about that?
And the Hamas charter is irrelevant. Did the communist manifesto prevent peace an eventual peaceful settlement between Russia and the West? No. There's one way to find out if Hamas are serious about peace: abide by resolution 242 and then see what happens.
Dr. Ahmed Yousef, senior advisor to Prime Minister Ismail Haniya, the leader of the Hamas government in Gaza:
Hamas' views on the future
RA: Hamas has long called for a long-term truce with Israel, an offer that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and Israel have rejected already. Is there a possibility that Hamas would consider other options?
AY: We still stick to our political vision which is based on the truce or long-term ceasefire of five, ten or twenty years if Israel accepts to withdraw to the pre-1967 border. This remains our vision of the basis for a peaceful settlement of the conflict.
RA: Abbas argues that a long-term truce will give Israel a chance to reoccupy the Palestinian territories. How do you view this?
AY: I don't think that Abbas understands fully what we mean by a truce. The truce means that the Israelis will withdraw in a specified period, maybe six months, from all the occupied Palestinian territories, and they can get a guarantee for security for these ten or twenty years. We think this might set the stage for confidence building. After twenty years maybe the new generation of Palestinians will have different views for how to settle the conflict.
When you do not have bloodshed maybe that would be a good time to talk about peace, but now while the cycle of death continues and we have daily funerals; I do not think this is a good time to talk about a full peaceful settlement. So we need to have time to heal from the injuries and from the bad memories of bloodshed between Muslims and Jews, between Palestinians and Jews. And after that this new generation will have its own political vision about how to settle the conflict maybe through a binational state or a one-state solution. I am sure they are going to come up with different proposals. But today this is what we can offer. A hudna -- twenty years of peace with the Palestinians having their own independent and free state on the pre-1967 borders.
RA: There is a lot of talk about the death of the two-state solution and increased activism calling for a one-state solution as in South Africa. How does Hamas relate to these discussions and what are the current trends in thinking about a long-term solution?
AY: It sounds good to talk about a one-state solution but this will be considered when the two-state solution fails. However, so far we are sticking to our position about a long-term truce. South Africa is a good model for coexistence, reconciliation and atonement. Until now we are still not addressing this issue. But in the future if the world's expectation of a viable independent Palestinian state fails because of expansionist Israeli policies -- already Israel has confiscated and annexed 50 percent of the land in the West Bank -- people will come to this issue and we will address it.
RA: Who does Hamas look to as a political model from other struggles in history?
AY: Of course there is Nelson Mandela, and we do look to non-Muslim and non-Arab countries as models. For example, Michael Collins in Ireland [Editor: Collins was one of the key leaders in Ireland's independence struggle]. I do believe that Hamas also looks at Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey as a good model as well. We are not Taliban, we are Erdogan.
I dont care where you got your info. I'm sure you weren't aware by how many rockets have been fired into Israel by Hamas. those rockets are intended to kill. luckily they often miss their targets because Hamas happens to suck bad at making them
Just continue ignoring the big picture in your non-support of Israel.
Gaza was turned into a big prison and the population reduced to abject poverty and chronic malnutrition. The rocket attacks are almost an irrelevance.
there are no buts. those rockets are fired into Israeli towns with the intention to kill innocent civilians everytime. you want to post death ratios for what? all you are proving is that Hamas is less efficient at killing then Israel. they are not any less innocent.
The majority of the rockets were aimed at the town of Sderot. Sderot is occupied Palestinian land. Therefore, if the Zionists living there feel uncomfortable then they simply fuck off back to America or Israel.
'Israeli's built Sderot on the ashes of an ethnically cleansed Palestinian village called Najd.
Sderot was settled by Jews in 1951.
Najd's Palestinian villagers, approximately 620 in 1945, were expelled on 13 May 1948, before Israel was declared a state and before any Arab armies entered Palestine. UN Resolution 194 and also the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 13, Section 2, stipulate that the villagers of Najd have a right to return home to their personal property and to their native village.
Najd is 14 kilometres from Gaza. Palestinian Arabs own 12,669 dunums in Najd, although Israel refuses to honour their rights to their personal property, and refuses them their inalienable right to return home.
In 1945 Jews owned 495 dunums of land in Najd and public lands consisted of 412 dunums.
In short, Sderot is an illegally occupied territory stolen from Palestinians.'
I asked if the rockets by Hamas are fired into Israel have the intention of killing civilians.
They have the intention of killing illegal Jewish settlers.
that is absolutely right. luckily for the Israelis, they have really bad aim and are poorly made. otherwise, the death tolls would be about the same if those rockets hit their targets.
I asked if the rockets by Hamas are fired into Israel have the intention of killing civilians.
They have the intention of killing illegal Jewish settlers.
that is absolutely right. luckily for the Israelis, they have really bad aim and are poorly made. otherwise, the death tolls would be about the same if those rockets hit their targets.
Then those poor illegal Jewish settlers have the option to go back to America or to Israel. Simple.
I wonder if the Chinese have a "shoot first" policy towards the Uyghurs?
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
In short, Sderot is an illegally occupied territory stolen from Palestinians.'
thus firing rockets at them is 100% justified.
Who broke the ceasefire on November 4th last year?
depends on your definition of break. Israel attempted to stop Palestinians from entering through an illegal dug tunnel. its obvious you would never consider this illegal move as a problem.
depends on your definition of break. Israel attempted to stop Palestinians from entering through an illegal dug tunnel. its obvious you would never consider this illegal move as a problem.
you've never made a peep about their abuses thats why.
I must have just imagined creating a thread about the Tianenmen Square massacre then. Hmm, maybe because it hijacked and derailed by you and Soulsinging.
Then those poor illegal Jewish settlers have the option to go back to America or to Israel. Simple.[/quote]
Der Fuhrer just cant get enough of his Jew obsession can he?
Then those poor illegal Jewish settlers have the option to go back to America or to Israel. Simple.
Der Fuhrer just cant get enough of his Jew obsession can he?[/quote]
"Into that void strode a maniac of ferocious genius of the the most virulent hatred that has ever corroded the human breast... Corporal Hitler."
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
Der Fuhrer just cant get enough of his Jew obsession can he?
It's too bad you chose not to respond to my earlier posts, though I don't blame you. I'd shut the fuck up too if I didn't know what I was talking about.
Hey genius. Israel still controls the borders, the air, and water genius. If you control every single item allowed into Gaza, whether it be food, medicine, or people, that's still as brutal as an occupation. There is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza due to Israel's, and Egypt's who work at Israel's orders, insistence on forcing 1.5 million people to suffer. You fucking rocket scientist, you.
none of this addresses his statement. but your insults where a very nice touch. calm down fella.
why are you acting so offended by what _outlaw posted, yet you were ok with BRMLAW sarcastically calling me a genius twice?
rocket scientist/genius. not much difference on the sarcasm scale really is there?
Der Fuhrer just cant get enough of his Jew obsession can he?
It's too bad you chose not to respond to my earlier posts, though I don't blame you. I'd shut the fuck up too if I didn't know what I was talking about.
Its gonna take more than one Outlaw and one Fuhrer to shut me up. There's a new sheriff in town and there just ain't enough room in this town for the two of us. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Comments
yes! absolutely. but that doesn't mean its ok for them to fire rockets. Israel needs to stop too
I agree.
what question?
i never said it was ok to fire rockets or mortars or carry out suicide bombings or....i don't think anyone has
if Mexico or Canada was occupying your town illegally and illegally destroying american homes to build even more illegal homes while pretty much putting you on reservations with jack shit while the children in those areas suffered from acute malnutrition because while they just continue killing 25.75 minors and 14.98 adults for every 1 Mexican or Canadian would there ever come to a point you would react?
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
so its irrelevant to discuss the crimes committed by Hamas. nice
there are some here that support it
impossible for me to answer unless I was in the situation. but if you're wondering if I would start targeting innocent Mexicans or Canadians living in areas they stole, the answer is no.
we don't have to discuss that, because thats not what I was asking..
I asked if the rockets by Hamas are fired into Israel have the intention of killing civilians.
you feel the answer is irrelevant.
What does the holocaust have to do with the illegal Israeli occupation?
Hey genius, can you read?
Norman Finkelstein:
'In a study entitled 'One Big Prison', the respected Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem observed that the crippling economic arrangements Israel had imposed on Gaza would remain in place. In addition, Israel would continue to maintain absolute control over Gaza's land borders, coastline, and airspace, and the Israeli army would continue to operate in Gaza. "So long as these methods of control remain in Israeli hands," B'Tselem concluded, "Israel's claim of 'an end of the Occupation' is questionable". HRW (Human Rights Watch) was even more emphatic that evacuating settlers and troops from inside Gaza would not end the occupation: "Whether the Israeli army is inside Gaza or redeployed around it's periphery, and restricting entrance and exit, it remains in control."
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/D ... y/4222.htm
Key Sharon advisor: "disengagement" aims to stop Palestinian state
By Israel Insider staff and partners October 6, 2004
'In a stunning admission, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's senior adviser said that the purpose of the Israeli government's policy was to supend diplomatic moves to establish a Palestinian state. "The significance of the 'disengagement' plan is the freezing of the peace process," Dov Weissglas told Haaretz.
Weissglas, an initiator of the plan, explained that the deep freeze would prevent implementation of the "Road Map" backed by the Quartet of the United States, Russia, EU and UN: "when you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Effectively, this whole package called the Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed indefinitely from our agenda. And all this with authority and permission. All with a presidential blessing and the ratification of both houses of Congress."
"The disengagement is actually formaldehyde," he said. "It supplies the amount of formaldehyde that is necessary so there will not be a political process with the Palestinians."
Asked by Haaretz's Ari Shavit why the disengagement plan had been hatched, Weisglass replied: "Because in the fall of 2003 we understood that everything was stuck. And although by the way the Americans read the situation, the blame fell on the Palestinians, not on us, Arik [Sharon] grasped that this state of affairs could not last, that they wouldn't leave us alone, wouldn't get off our case. Time was not on our side. There was international erosion, internal erosion. Domestically, in the meantime, everything was collapsing. The economy was stagnant, and the Geneva Initiative had gained broad support. And then we were hit with the letters of officers and letters of pilots and letters of commandos [refusing to serve in the territories]. These were not weird kids with green ponytails and a ring in their nose with a strong odor of grass. These were people like Spector's group [Yiftah Spector, a renowned Air Force pilot who signed the pilot's letter]. Really our finest young people."
Weisglass trumpets that the main achievement of the Gaza plan was the freezing of the peace process in a "legitimate manner."
"That is exactly what happened," he said. "You know, the term 'peace process' is a bundle of concepts and commitments. The peace process is the establishment of a Palestinian state with all the security risks that entails. The peace process is the evacuation of settlements, it's the return of refugees, it's the partition of Jerusalem. And all that has now been frozen.... [W]hat I effectively agreed to with the Americans was that part of the settlements would not be dealt with at all, and the rest will not be dealt with until the Palestinians turn into Finns. That is the significance of what we did."
Sharon, he said, could also argue "honestly" that the disengagement plan was "a serious move because of which, out of 240,000 settlers, 190,000 will not be moved from their place."
I've already quoted what the Zionist leadership believes. Where was your outrage about that?
And the Hamas charter is irrelevant. Did the communist manifesto prevent peace an eventual peaceful settlement between Russia and the West? No. There's one way to find out if Hamas are serious about peace: abide by resolution 242 and then see what happens.
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article9917.shtml
EI interview: Hamas advisor on talking to the US, Fatah and Israel
Rami Almeghari, The Electronic Intifada, 28 October 2008
Dr. Ahmed Yousef, senior advisor to Prime Minister Ismail Haniya, the leader of the Hamas government in Gaza:
Hamas' views on the future
RA: Hamas has long called for a long-term truce with Israel, an offer that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and Israel have rejected already. Is there a possibility that Hamas would consider other options?
AY: We still stick to our political vision which is based on the truce or long-term ceasefire of five, ten or twenty years if Israel accepts to withdraw to the pre-1967 border. This remains our vision of the basis for a peaceful settlement of the conflict.
RA: Abbas argues that a long-term truce will give Israel a chance to reoccupy the Palestinian territories. How do you view this?
AY: I don't think that Abbas understands fully what we mean by a truce. The truce means that the Israelis will withdraw in a specified period, maybe six months, from all the occupied Palestinian territories, and they can get a guarantee for security for these ten or twenty years. We think this might set the stage for confidence building. After twenty years maybe the new generation of Palestinians will have different views for how to settle the conflict.
When you do not have bloodshed maybe that would be a good time to talk about peace, but now while the cycle of death continues and we have daily funerals; I do not think this is a good time to talk about a full peaceful settlement. So we need to have time to heal from the injuries and from the bad memories of bloodshed between Muslims and Jews, between Palestinians and Jews. And after that this new generation will have its own political vision about how to settle the conflict maybe through a binational state or a one-state solution. I am sure they are going to come up with different proposals. But today this is what we can offer. A hudna -- twenty years of peace with the Palestinians having their own independent and free state on the pre-1967 borders.
RA: There is a lot of talk about the death of the two-state solution and increased activism calling for a one-state solution as in South Africa. How does Hamas relate to these discussions and what are the current trends in thinking about a long-term solution?
AY: It sounds good to talk about a one-state solution but this will be considered when the two-state solution fails. However, so far we are sticking to our position about a long-term truce. South Africa is a good model for coexistence, reconciliation and atonement. Until now we are still not addressing this issue. But in the future if the world's expectation of a viable independent Palestinian state fails because of expansionist Israeli policies -- already Israel has confiscated and annexed 50 percent of the land in the West Bank -- people will come to this issue and we will address it.
RA: Who does Hamas look to as a political model from other struggles in history?
AY: Of course there is Nelson Mandela, and we do look to non-Muslim and non-Arab countries as models. For example, Michael Collins in Ireland [Editor: Collins was one of the key leaders in Ireland's independence struggle]. I do believe that Hamas also looks at Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey as a good model as well. We are not Taliban, we are Erdogan.
Just continue ignoring the big picture in your non-support of Israel.
Gaza was turned into a big prison and the population reduced to abject poverty and chronic malnutrition. The rocket attacks are almost an irrelevance.
The majority of the rockets were aimed at the town of Sderot. Sderot is occupied Palestinian land. Therefore, if the Zionists living there feel uncomfortable then they simply fuck off back to America or Israel.
'Israeli's built Sderot on the ashes of an ethnically cleansed Palestinian village called Najd.
Sderot was settled by Jews in 1951.
Najd's Palestinian villagers, approximately 620 in 1945, were expelled on 13 May 1948, before Israel was declared a state and before any Arab armies entered Palestine. UN Resolution 194 and also the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 13, Section 2, stipulate that the villagers of Najd have a right to return home to their personal property and to their native village.
Najd is 14 kilometres from Gaza. Palestinian Arabs own 12,669 dunums in Najd, although Israel refuses to honour their rights to their personal property, and refuses them their inalienable right to return home.
In 1945 Jews owned 495 dunums of land in Najd and public lands consisted of 412 dunums.
In short, Sderot is an illegally occupied territory stolen from Palestinians.'
They have the intention of killing illegal Jewish settlers.
that is absolutely right. luckily for the Israelis, they have really bad aim and are poorly made. otherwise, the death tolls would be about the same if those rockets hit their targets.
thus firing rockets at them is 100% justified.
Who broke the ceasefire on November 4th last year?
Then those poor illegal Jewish settlers have the option to go back to America or to Israel. Simple.
Why?
depends on your definition of break. Israel attempted to stop Palestinians from entering through an illegal dug tunnel. its obvious you would never consider this illegal move as a problem.
because you would be more then willing to turn a blind eye to that policy and post another picture of the dead guy at Kent University 30 years ago.
Where's your evidence?
Is that right?
So I'm a defender of China's human rights abuses now am I? How dya work that one out?
you've never made a peep about their abuses thats why. you actually defended China several times.
I must have just imagined creating a thread about the Tianenmen Square massacre then. Hmm, maybe because it hijacked and derailed by you and Soulsinging.
I defended China with regards to what exactly?
Der Fuhrer just cant get enough of his Jew obsession can he?
"Into that void strode a maniac of ferocious genius of the the most virulent hatred that has ever corroded the human breast... Corporal Hitler."
why are you acting so offended by what _outlaw posted, yet you were ok with BRMLAW sarcastically calling me a genius twice?
rocket scientist/genius. not much difference on the sarcasm scale really is there?