Israeli soldiers admit 'shoot first' policy in Gaza

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  • BRMLAW
    BRMLAW Posts: 153
    Byrnzie wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    yes of course. I've said this NUMEROUS times on this board. yet, since I do not support Hamas, that translates to me 100% supporting Israel.

    Hamas weren't in charge before 2006. How did you make excuses for Israel's crimes before 2006?
    The same way you excuse decades of palestinian massacres of innocent civillians. You ignore decades of their cold blooded murdering of civillians of all nationalities. Whats your excuse there? Maybe Jewish life is unimportant to you and you wonder why you find yourself volunteering to defend yourself as not an anti-semite when you havent even been accused of it??? That and your almost total denial of the impact of the holocaust puts you in a particular class. Doesnt it?
  • BRMLAW
    BRMLAW Posts: 153
    TriumphantAngel wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:

    if that is the case - then the problem does not continue ... the problem would stop if we could get israel to withdraw ...

    :roll: I know I know. Hamas can do no wrong.
    Why do you do that? We are having a reasonable discussion and you pull bullshit like that.

    You know and i know that the occupation is brutal, and a violation of the palestinian peoples basic human rights. The problem wouldn't continue if the israelis give back to the palestinians what is rightfully theirs. It would stop. At least that's how i see it. Do you not see that If Israel does that and completely improves the lives of Palestinians, Hamas will be helpless to do anything but watch as their support dwindles?
    Hey genius. Israel gave Gaza back genius and Hamas promptly turned into a missile launching platform. In no time flat.
  • BRMLAW
    BRMLAW Posts: 153
    _outlaw wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    o goodie, the same cut and paste for the 47th time.


    if Hamas had the capabilities to kill 900 Israelis, it would. they are a violence organization. that said, should Israel renounce violence, stop settlements, give back land, yes absolutely.
    why do you waste your time with things like "if Hamas had the capabilities" ? They fucking don't. Israel does, however, and they DO kill thousands of Palestinians. That's why we say that the problem is Israel, not Hamas. Think of it this way: do you support the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza? Those areas were occupied in 1967. When was Hamas founded? In the late 1980s. jlew, if you claim you agree, as we do, that Israel needs to end its occupation, then you are wasting your time arguing anything else. You don't need to prove Hamas is also bad because that's not the point. This conflict has started long before rocket attacks, suicide bombings, and Hamas. Yes, Hamas became an important player when it was founded, but the fact of the matter is that even if Hamas were to shut down their organization tomorrow, this conflict would not stop. If Hamas were to "renounce violence" tomorrow, this conflict would not stop. However, if Israel were to abide by international law, perhaps diplomacy might be able to come into play.

    People say the Palestinians don't want peace because they elected Hamas. Hamas has called for the same thing the entire world called for: a two-state solution. On the other hand, Israel has a guy like Netanyahu who refuses to halt illegal settlement expansion. Who is really preventing peace?


    Hamas called for a two state solution? Thats astonishing. If you truly believe that you are truly on some kind of mind altering substance and its pointless to engage in discussion with you people. That's delusional. Hamas charter favors the destruction of Israel. Fucking read something besides Al Jazeera. Dont with my uninformed fools.
  • BRMLAW
    BRMLAW Posts: 153
    From your blessed book of wikipedia fool.

    Hamas Charter
    The Hamas charter (or covenant), issued in 1988, calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories,[51] and the obliteration or nullification of Israel.[52] Specifically, the quotation section that precedes the charter's introduction provides the following quote, attributed to Imam Hassan al-Banna: "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."[53] The quotation has also been translated as follows: "Israel will be established and will stay established until Islam shall nullify it, as it nullified what was before it."[54] The charter's advocacy of an Islamic state in the territory of the Palestinian territories and Israel is stated as an Islamic religious prophesy arising from Hadith, the oral traditions relating to the words and deeds of the Islamic prophet Muhammad.[55] In this regard, the charter states that "renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith. . ."[56][57]

    Go Hamas. Go Iran!
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,994
    BRMLAW wrote:
    TriumphantAngel wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:


    Hey genius. Israel gave Gaza back genius and Hamas promptly turned into a missile launching platform. In no time flat.
    got a link on this?

    when did this occur? and at what point did hamas begin launching missles? i am at work so i can't go researching this right now.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    Byrnzie wrote:
    BRMLAW wrote:
    Do I think its right to target civillians on either side. Clearly no. Both sides do it. Make it right? No. But the atrocities are on both sides. And if you excuse that than you are just a biased apologist for palestinian violence, no matter what the cost.

    You make it sound like a level playing field, which it isn't. You're forgetting - or choosing to ignore - the occupation. The suicide bombings didn't begin until 1994. The rocket attacks came a lot later. The illegal Israeli occupation began in 1948 and has continued unabated ever since. In fact illegal Jewish-only settlement expansion accelerated immediately after the Oslo Accords in 1993.

    The Israeli's have recently shown that they have no intention of dismantling the illegal settlements. This is a land grab, pure and simple. It's Zionist ethnic cleansing. Is this something you support?


    they have NEW homes in some of the illegal settlements scheduled to be built....
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    BRMLAW wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    BRMLAW wrote:
    Your poor little innocent Pali's. Just as murderous then as they are now.

    Here's a question for you. Were you happy when over 400 Palestinian children were massacred by Israel in January of this year?
    And does it please you that Gaza is currently a prison in which the population has been reduced to abject poverty and malnutrition as a form of collective punishment for having elected the wrong people?

    I dont particularly see much of anyone else paying any attention to you. I have no facts to support the assertions in your loaded question. Do I think its right to target civillians on either side. Clearly no. Both sides do it. Make it right? No. But the atrocities are on both sides. And if you excuse that than you are just a biased apologist for palestinian violence, no matter what the cost.


    the 400 children killed in operation cast lead is widely reported and you can find the information on malnutrition on several children's rights groups like UNICEF, i think even the Red Cross backs up both figures
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    BRMLAW wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    yes of course. I've said this NUMEROUS times on this board. yet, since I do not support Hamas, that translates to me 100% supporting Israel.

    Hamas weren't in charge before 2006. How did you make excuses for Israel's crimes before 2006?
    The same way you excuse decades of palestinian massacres of innocent civillians. You ignore decades of their cold blooded murdering of civillians of all nationalities. Whats your excuse there? Maybe Jewish life is unimportant to you and you wonder why you find yourself volunteering to defend yourself as not an anti-semite when you havent even been accused of it??? That and your almost total denial of the impact of the holocaust puts you in a particular class. Doesnt it?


    can you cite any sources for these massacres? sure, they have killed innocent civilians but no where near the amount Israel has and does.

    what would you do if your town was Gaza and Israel was Mexico??
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    BRMLAW wrote:
    Hamas called for a two state solution? Thats astonishing. If you truly believe that you are truly on some kind of mind altering substance and its pointless to engage in discussion with you people. That's delusional. Hamas charter favors the destruction of Israel. Fucking read something besides Al Jazeera. Dont with my uninformed fools.
    Read something other than Al Jazeera? Ok.

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1035414.html
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,351920,00.html
    http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/01/ ... interview/

    If you want to act like you know what you're talking about, at least do your fucking research.
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    BRMLAW wrote:
    From your blessed book of wikipedia fool.

    Hamas Charter
    The Hamas charter (or covenant), issued in 1988, calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories,[51] and the obliteration or nullification of Israel.[52] Specifically, the quotation section that precedes the charter's introduction provides the following quote, attributed to Imam Hassan al-Banna: "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."[53] The quotation has also been translated as follows: "Israel will be established and will stay established until Islam shall nullify it, as it nullified what was before it."[54] The charter's advocacy of an Islamic state in the territory of the Palestinian territories and Israel is stated as an Islamic religious prophesy arising from Hadith, the oral traditions relating to the words and deeds of the Islamic prophet Muhammad.[55] In this regard, the charter states that "renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith. . ."[56][57]

    Go Hamas. Go Iran!

    First of all, don't fucking call me a fool, the only one who has been shown to not know what the fuck he's talking about so far is you. Secondly, if you want to be a smart ass and quote wikipedia when you know I haven't, atleast scroll down a few paragraphs to where it says:

    On 21 April 2008, former U.S. President Jimmy Carter met with Hamas Leader Khaled Meshal and reached an agreement that Hamas would respect the creation of a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip areas seized by Israel in the Six-Day War of 1967, provided this be ratified by the Palestinian people in a referendum. Hamas later publicly offered a long-term hudna with Israel if Israel agreed to return to its 1967 borders and to grant the "right of return" to all Palestinian refugees. Israel has not responded to the offer.[45][46] In November, 2008 Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh, disputed Prime Minister of the Palestinian Territories and de facto prime minister in Gaza, stated that Hamas was willing to accept a Palestinian state within the 1949 armistice lines, and offered Israel "a long-term hudna, or truce, if Israel recognized the Palestinians' national rights."[47]
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    BRMLAW wrote:
    TriumphantAngel wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    :roll: I know I know. Hamas can do no wrong.
    Why do you do that? We are having a reasonable discussion and you pull bullshit like that.

    You know and i know that the occupation is brutal, and a violation of the palestinian peoples basic human rights. The problem wouldn't continue if the israelis give back to the palestinians what is rightfully theirs. It would stop. At least that's how i see it. Do you not see that If Israel does that and completely improves the lives of Palestinians, Hamas will be helpless to do anything but watch as their support dwindles?
    Hey genius. Israel gave Gaza back genius and Hamas promptly turned into a missile launching platform. In no time flat.
    Hey genius. Israel still controls the borders, the air, and water genius. If you control every single item allowed into Gaza, whether it be food, medicine, or people, that's still as brutal as an occupation. There is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza due to Israel's, and Egypt's who work at Israel's orders, insistence on forcing 1.5 million people to suffer. You fucking rocket scientist, you.
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    BRMLAW wrote:
    Hey genius. Israel gave Gaza back genius and Hamas promptly turned into a missile launching platform. In no time flat.


    sources please??

    Hamas took power in 2006, right? let's see how many attacks have been carried out in that time....

    in 2006 there were 3 attacks on Israel by Palestinians with 15 deaths
    in 2007 there was 1 attack on Israel by Palestinians with 3 deaths
    in 2008 there were 4 attacks on Israel by Palestinians with 9 deaths

    source:
    http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Ob ... +Since.htm

    while anny civilian deaths are a bad thing 27 deaths in 3 years does not a massacre make

    you've claimed rocket attacks by the hundreds even Israel says in that 3 year span since Hamas took power there was only 8 attacks! in 2007 only 3 Israeli's died compared to 650 Palestinians including 120 children, how can you justify that???? you're honestly saying 1 attack and 3 deaths in a single year justifies 650 people being killed in retribution of the 3??
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    I heart Scout Niblett wrote:
    BRMLAW wrote:
    Hey genius. Israel gave Gaza back genius and Hamas promptly turned into a missile launching platform. In no time flat.


    sources please??

    Hamas took power in 2006, right? let's see how many attacks have been carried out in that time....

    in 2006 there were 3 attacks on Israel by Palestinians with 15 deaths
    in 2007 there was 1 attack on Israel by Palestinians with 3 deaths
    in 2008 there were 4 attacks on Israel by Palestinians with 9 deaths

    are you serious?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ro ... el_in_2008

    rapidly escalating attacks by Hamas on Israel. Until the ceasefire in June 19 2008 2378 rockets and mortars were launched. This is more than the 1,639 attacks launched in all of 2007, the rate of fire per month had increased more than 240%.
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    edited July 2009
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I heart Scout Niblett wrote:
    BRMLAW wrote:
    Hey genius. Israel gave Gaza back genius and Hamas promptly turned into a missile launching platform. In no time flat.


    sources please??

    Hamas took power in 2006, right? let's see how many attacks have been carried out in that time....

    in 2006 there were 3 attacks on Israel by Palestinians with 15 deaths
    in 2007 there was 1 attack on Israel by Palestinians with 3 deaths
    in 2008 there were 4 attacks on Israel by Palestinians with 9 deaths

    are you serious?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ro ... el_in_2008

    rapidly escalating attacks by Hamas on Israel. Until the ceasefire in June 19 2008 2378 rockets and mortars were launched. This is more than the 1,639 attacks launched in all of 2007, the rate of fire per month had increased more than 240%.


    i'm just going by what Israel has on their own website

    now, where's the numbers on the deaths to back up the massacre??
    Post edited by Pepe Silvia on
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    _outlaw wrote:
    BRMLAW wrote:
    Hey genius. Israel gave Gaza back genius and Hamas promptly turned into a missile launching platform. In no time flat.
    _outlaw wrote:
    Hey genius. Israel still controls the borders, the air, and water genius. If you control every single item allowed into Gaza, whether it be food, medicine, or people, that's still as brutal as an occupation. There is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza due to Israel's, and Egypt's who work at Israel's orders, insistence on forcing 1.5 million people to suffer. You fucking rocket scientist, you.

    none of this addresses his statement. but your insults where a very nice touch. calm down fella.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

    i'm just going by what Israel has on their own website

    now, where's the numbers on the deaths to back up the massacre??

    I dont care where you got your info. I'm sure you weren't aware by how many rockets have been fired into Israel by Hamas. those rockets are intended to kill. luckily they often miss their targets because Hamas happens to suck bad at making them
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    I heart Scout Niblett wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

    sources please??

    Hamas took power in 2006, right? let's see how many attacks have been carried out in that time....

    in 2006 there were 3 attacks on Israel by Palestinians with 15 deaths
    in 2007 there was 1 attack on Israel by Palestinians with 3 deaths
    in 2008 there were 4 attacks on Israel by Palestinians with 9 deaths

    are you serious?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ro ... el_in_2008

    rapidly escalating attacks by Hamas on Israel. Until the ceasefire in June 19 2008 2378 rockets and mortars were launched. This is more than the 1,639 attacks launched in all of 2007, the rate of fire per month had increased more than 240%.


    i'm just going by what Israel has on their own website

    now, where's the numbers on the deaths to back up the massacre??


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_a ... he_Israeli–Palestinian_conflict

    i like Israel's response of:
    "The deaths of children are a regrettable consequence of war"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2 ... Casualties

    not including unexploded ordinace and other causes:

    from 2000-2004
    3196 Palestinians were killed 620 being under 18
    946 Israeli's were killed 112 being under 18

    2005-2008

    1753 Palestinians were killed 309 under 18
    117 Israeli's were killed 12 being under 18

    odd BRMLAW thinks the far smaller figures are the massacre and the much larger numbers are what?
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_a ... he_Israeli–Palestinian_conflict

    i like Israel's response of:
    "The deaths of children are a regrettable consequence of war"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2 ... Casualties

    not including unexploded ordinace and other causes:

    from 2000-2004
    3196 Palestinians were killed 620 being under 18
    946 Israeli's were killed 112 being under 18

    2005-2008

    1753 Palestinians were killed 309 under 18
    117 Israeli's were killed 12 being under 18


    so, from '05-'08 for every 1 Israeli under 18 killed Israel killed 25.75 Palestinians under 18......
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    I heart Scout Niblett wrote:
    so, from '05-'08 for every 1 Israeli under 18 killed Israel killed 25.75 Palestinians under 18......

    what are you trying to prove here?

    Israel has better killing capabilities then Hamas?

    I wonder what the numbers would be if those 2500 rockets hit their targets
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    jlew24asu wrote:
    _outlaw wrote:
    BRMLAW wrote:
    Hey genius. Israel gave Gaza back genius and Hamas promptly turned into a missile launching platform. In no time flat.
    _outlaw wrote:
    Hey genius. Israel still controls the borders, the air, and water genius. If you control every single item allowed into Gaza, whether it be food, medicine, or people, that's still as brutal as an occupation. There is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza due to Israel's, and Egypt's who work at Israel's orders, insistence on forcing 1.5 million people to suffer. You fucking rocket scientist, you.

    none of this addresses his statement. but your insults where a very nice touch. calm down fella.
    uh, it does DIRECTLY address his statement that "Israel gave Gaza back." No they didn't, they still control the borders, air, and water. And I love how you say my insults were a nice touch while ignoring his insults which I was clearly imitating.
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