West Memphis Three
Byrnzie
Posts: 21,037
I've heard Eddie talking about this case recently. What do people here know about it? What are your opinions?
I notice there's been a few documentaries on the case - 'Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills' and 'Paradise Lost 2: Revelations' - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117293/ Anyone seen these? I'm downloading them now.
Also, I wasn't aware that Damien Echols co-wrote 'Army Reserve'.
From Wiki:
Investigation
'There has been widespread criticism of how the police handled the crime scene.[4] Misskelley's former attorney Dan Stidham[5] cites multiple substantial police errors at the crime scene, characterizing it as "literally trampled, especially the creek bed."[cite this quote] The bodies, he said, had been removed from the water before the coroner arrived to examine the scene and determine the state of rigor mortis, allowing the bodies to decay on the creek bank, and to be exposed to sunlight and insects. The police did not telephone the coroner until almost two hours after the discovery of the floating shoe, resulting in a late appearance by the coroner. Officials failed to drain the creek in a timely manner and secure possible evidence in the water (the creek was sandbagged after the bodies were pulled from the water). Stidham calls the coroner's investigation "substandard."[cite this quote] There was a small amount of blood found at the scene that was never tested. After the initial investigation, the police failed to control disclosure of information and speculation about the crime scene.[citations needed]
According to Mara Leveritt, investigative journalist and author of Devil's Knot, "Police records were a mess. To call them disorderly would be putting it mildly."[4] Leveritt speculated that the small local police force was overwhelmed by the crime, which was unlike any they had ever investigated. Police refused an unsolicited offer of aid and consultation from the violent crimes experts of the Arkansas State Police, and critics suggested this was due to the WMPD being investigated by the Arkansas State Police for suspected theft from the Crittenden County drug task force.[4] Leveritt further noted that some of the physical evidence was stored in paper sacks obtained from a supermarket (with the supermarket's name pre-printed on the bags) rather than in containers of known and controlled origin.
Leveritt also mistakenly presumed that the crime scene video was shot minutes after Detectives Mike Allen and Bryn Ridge recovered two of the bodies, when in fact the camera was not available for almost thirty minutes afterwards.[12]
When police speculated about the assailant, the juvenile probation officer assisting at the scene of the murders speculated that Echols was "capable" of committing the murders, stating "it looks like Damien Echols finally killed someone."[4]
One expert, in the film Paradise Lost 2, stated that human bite marks could have been left on at least one of the victims. However, these potential bite marks were first noticed in photographs years after the trials and were not inspected by a board-certified medical examiner until four years after the murders. The defense's own expert testified that the mark in question was not an adult bite mark, which is consistent with the testimony of the list of experts put on by the State who had concluded that there was no bite mark.[citation needed] The State's experts had examined the actual bodies for any marks and others conducted expert photo analysis of injuries. Upon further examination, it was concluded that if the marks were bite marks, they did not match the teeth of any of the three convicted.[13]
Police interviewed Echols two days after the bodies were discovered. During a polygraph examination, he denied any involvement, but the polygraph examiner claimed that Echols' chart indicated deception.[4] When asked to produce the record of the examination, he indicated that he had no written record.[4] Officer Durham, who administered the polygraph, also did not keep any record of the test.[4] Recently, the report was found and is featured on the West Memphis Three Official Website, under the Evidence Archive.[14]
On May 10, 1993, four days after the bodies were found, Detective Bryn Ridge questioned Echols, asking Echols to speculate as to how the three victims died. Ridge's description of Echols' answer is abstracted as follows:
He stated that the boys probably died of mutilation, some guy had cut the bodies up, heard that they were in the water, they may have drowned. He said at least one was cut up more than the others. Purpose of the killing may have been to scare someone. He believed that it was only one person for fear of squealing by another involved.[citation needed]
At trial, Echols testified that Ridge's description of the conversation (which was not recorded) was inaccurate. At the time that Echols had allegedly made these statements, police thought that there was no public knowledge that one of the children had been mutilated more severely than the others. This contradicted John Mark Byers' (the stepfather of victim Christopher Byers) statement to reporters only minutes after the three bodies were found, "that two boys had been badly beaten and that the third had been even worse." At that time, Det. Gitchell had not released that information.[12] Gitchell later said he had told John Mark Byers some details of the scene first, before the official release to the media. Leveritt also demonstrates[4] that the police leaked some information, and that partly accurate gossip about the case was widely discussed among the public.
Throughout the course of the trial and after, many teenagers came forward with statements regarding being questioned and polygraphed by the local police; they said that Durham, among others, was at times aggressive and verbally abusive if they did not say what was expected of them.[who?] After the test, when asked what he was afraid of, Echols replied, "The electric chair."[15]
After a month had passed, with little progress in the case, police continued to focus their investigation upon Echols, interrogating him more times than any other person, but claiming he was not regarded as a direct suspect but a source of information.[4]
On June 3, police interrogated Misskelley. Misskelley, whose IQ was reported to be 72 (making him borderline mentally retarded), was questioned alone; his parents were not present during the interrogation.[4] Misskelley's father gave permission for Misskelley to go with police, but did not explicitly give permission for his minor son to be questioned or interrogated.[4] Misskelley was questioned for roughly twelve hours; only two segments, totaling 46 minutes, were recorded.[16] Misskelley quickly recanted his confession, citing intimidation, coercion, fatigue, and veiled threats from police.[4] During Misskelley's trial, Dr. Richard Ofshe, an expert on false confessions and police coercion and Professor of Sociology at UC Berkeley, testified that the brief recording of Misskelley's interrogation was a "classic example" of police coercion.[12] He has further described Misskelley's statement as "the stupidest fucking confession I've ever seen."[17] Critics have also stated that Misskelley's "confession" was in many respects inconsistent with the particulars of the crime scene and murder victims, including (for example) an "admission" that Misskelley "watched Damien rape one of the boys." Police had initially suspected that the boys were raped due to their dilated anuses, but forensic evidence later proved conclusively that the murdered boys had not been raped at all, and their dilated anuses were a normal post-mortem condition.[4][18][19]
Subsequent to his conviction, a police officer also alleged that Misskelley had also confessed to her. However, once again, no reliable details of the crime were provided.[4]
Misskelley was a minor when he was questioned, and though informed of his Miranda rights, he later claimed he did not fully understand them.[4] The Arkansas Supreme Court determined that Misskelley's confession was voluntary and that he did, in fact, understand the Miranda warning and its consequences.[20] Misskelley specifically said he was "scared of the police" during his first confession.[21] Portions of Misskelley's statements to the police were leaked to the press and reported on the front page of the Memphis Commercial Appeal newspaper before any of the trials began.[4]
Shortly after Misskelley's original confession, police arrested Echols and his close friend Baldwin.
Misskelley's attorney, Dan Stidham, who was later elected to a municipal judgeship, has written a detailed critique of what he asserts are major police errors and misconceptions during their investigation.[22]'
I notice there's been a few documentaries on the case - 'Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills' and 'Paradise Lost 2: Revelations' - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117293/ Anyone seen these? I'm downloading them now.
Also, I wasn't aware that Damien Echols co-wrote 'Army Reserve'.
From Wiki:
Investigation
'There has been widespread criticism of how the police handled the crime scene.[4] Misskelley's former attorney Dan Stidham[5] cites multiple substantial police errors at the crime scene, characterizing it as "literally trampled, especially the creek bed."[cite this quote] The bodies, he said, had been removed from the water before the coroner arrived to examine the scene and determine the state of rigor mortis, allowing the bodies to decay on the creek bank, and to be exposed to sunlight and insects. The police did not telephone the coroner until almost two hours after the discovery of the floating shoe, resulting in a late appearance by the coroner. Officials failed to drain the creek in a timely manner and secure possible evidence in the water (the creek was sandbagged after the bodies were pulled from the water). Stidham calls the coroner's investigation "substandard."[cite this quote] There was a small amount of blood found at the scene that was never tested. After the initial investigation, the police failed to control disclosure of information and speculation about the crime scene.[citations needed]
According to Mara Leveritt, investigative journalist and author of Devil's Knot, "Police records were a mess. To call them disorderly would be putting it mildly."[4] Leveritt speculated that the small local police force was overwhelmed by the crime, which was unlike any they had ever investigated. Police refused an unsolicited offer of aid and consultation from the violent crimes experts of the Arkansas State Police, and critics suggested this was due to the WMPD being investigated by the Arkansas State Police for suspected theft from the Crittenden County drug task force.[4] Leveritt further noted that some of the physical evidence was stored in paper sacks obtained from a supermarket (with the supermarket's name pre-printed on the bags) rather than in containers of known and controlled origin.
Leveritt also mistakenly presumed that the crime scene video was shot minutes after Detectives Mike Allen and Bryn Ridge recovered two of the bodies, when in fact the camera was not available for almost thirty minutes afterwards.[12]
When police speculated about the assailant, the juvenile probation officer assisting at the scene of the murders speculated that Echols was "capable" of committing the murders, stating "it looks like Damien Echols finally killed someone."[4]
One expert, in the film Paradise Lost 2, stated that human bite marks could have been left on at least one of the victims. However, these potential bite marks were first noticed in photographs years after the trials and were not inspected by a board-certified medical examiner until four years after the murders. The defense's own expert testified that the mark in question was not an adult bite mark, which is consistent with the testimony of the list of experts put on by the State who had concluded that there was no bite mark.[citation needed] The State's experts had examined the actual bodies for any marks and others conducted expert photo analysis of injuries. Upon further examination, it was concluded that if the marks were bite marks, they did not match the teeth of any of the three convicted.[13]
Police interviewed Echols two days after the bodies were discovered. During a polygraph examination, he denied any involvement, but the polygraph examiner claimed that Echols' chart indicated deception.[4] When asked to produce the record of the examination, he indicated that he had no written record.[4] Officer Durham, who administered the polygraph, also did not keep any record of the test.[4] Recently, the report was found and is featured on the West Memphis Three Official Website, under the Evidence Archive.[14]
On May 10, 1993, four days after the bodies were found, Detective Bryn Ridge questioned Echols, asking Echols to speculate as to how the three victims died. Ridge's description of Echols' answer is abstracted as follows:
He stated that the boys probably died of mutilation, some guy had cut the bodies up, heard that they were in the water, they may have drowned. He said at least one was cut up more than the others. Purpose of the killing may have been to scare someone. He believed that it was only one person for fear of squealing by another involved.[citation needed]
At trial, Echols testified that Ridge's description of the conversation (which was not recorded) was inaccurate. At the time that Echols had allegedly made these statements, police thought that there was no public knowledge that one of the children had been mutilated more severely than the others. This contradicted John Mark Byers' (the stepfather of victim Christopher Byers) statement to reporters only minutes after the three bodies were found, "that two boys had been badly beaten and that the third had been even worse." At that time, Det. Gitchell had not released that information.[12] Gitchell later said he had told John Mark Byers some details of the scene first, before the official release to the media. Leveritt also demonstrates[4] that the police leaked some information, and that partly accurate gossip about the case was widely discussed among the public.
Throughout the course of the trial and after, many teenagers came forward with statements regarding being questioned and polygraphed by the local police; they said that Durham, among others, was at times aggressive and verbally abusive if they did not say what was expected of them.[who?] After the test, when asked what he was afraid of, Echols replied, "The electric chair."[15]
After a month had passed, with little progress in the case, police continued to focus their investigation upon Echols, interrogating him more times than any other person, but claiming he was not regarded as a direct suspect but a source of information.[4]
On June 3, police interrogated Misskelley. Misskelley, whose IQ was reported to be 72 (making him borderline mentally retarded), was questioned alone; his parents were not present during the interrogation.[4] Misskelley's father gave permission for Misskelley to go with police, but did not explicitly give permission for his minor son to be questioned or interrogated.[4] Misskelley was questioned for roughly twelve hours; only two segments, totaling 46 minutes, were recorded.[16] Misskelley quickly recanted his confession, citing intimidation, coercion, fatigue, and veiled threats from police.[4] During Misskelley's trial, Dr. Richard Ofshe, an expert on false confessions and police coercion and Professor of Sociology at UC Berkeley, testified that the brief recording of Misskelley's interrogation was a "classic example" of police coercion.[12] He has further described Misskelley's statement as "the stupidest fucking confession I've ever seen."[17] Critics have also stated that Misskelley's "confession" was in many respects inconsistent with the particulars of the crime scene and murder victims, including (for example) an "admission" that Misskelley "watched Damien rape one of the boys." Police had initially suspected that the boys were raped due to their dilated anuses, but forensic evidence later proved conclusively that the murdered boys had not been raped at all, and their dilated anuses were a normal post-mortem condition.[4][18][19]
Subsequent to his conviction, a police officer also alleged that Misskelley had also confessed to her. However, once again, no reliable details of the crime were provided.[4]
Misskelley was a minor when he was questioned, and though informed of his Miranda rights, he later claimed he did not fully understand them.[4] The Arkansas Supreme Court determined that Misskelley's confession was voluntary and that he did, in fact, understand the Miranda warning and its consequences.[20] Misskelley specifically said he was "scared of the police" during his first confession.[21] Portions of Misskelley's statements to the police were leaked to the press and reported on the front page of the Memphis Commercial Appeal newspaper before any of the trials began.[4]
Shortly after Misskelley's original confession, police arrested Echols and his close friend Baldwin.
Misskelley's attorney, Dan Stidham, who was later elected to a municipal judgeship, has written a detailed critique of what he asserts are major police errors and misconceptions during their investigation.[22]'
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Now, its pretty clear the real killer is another stepfather, but not Byers. The killer is Terry hobbs. I think Steve and his friends got whipped for doing something bad. And it got out of hand, and Hobbs ended up killing them.
The whole dynamics of the case are dramatically different.
John mark Byers who famously wanted to "let loose" on the graves of Damien and Jessie and Jason, is now a firm believer in their innocence and has stated that when they are realeased the will be first in line to shake their hand and apologize.
Seems like you could be right:
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/35197
'West Memphis Three' Could Go Free While Step-Father Hangs By A Hair
Frank Brooks - August 15, 2007
'Beginning in the 1880's, perhaps the only scientific means available to aid criminal investigators in determining who was responsible for a crime was fingerprinting. Fingerprints were used as a primary method of identification until the early 1900's. Flaws in fingerprint evidence such as becoming easily smudged or destroyed completely, rendering inconclusive results, and the fact that perpetrators were able to bypass fingerprinting by using acidic substances to alter their own prints led scientists to look for a better method.
Fingerprinting gave way to ABO blood typing, a forensic investigative tool that remained popular until human leukocyte antigen (HLA) typing became the premier personal identification tool in the 1960's. HLA typing was rendered powerful but eventually useless to all but a small percentage of samples. In the 1980's, DNA testing came to fruition and permitted investigators to perform a level of personal identification far superior to anything else available. For example, the DNA of a single hair root can be used to differentiate a person from all other persons living or dead.
In addition to providing a solid scientific method of identification, DNA testing has been used to determine parentage in both animals and man. Unknown genes can be identified by DNA testing, as well as the possible inheritance of disease. DNA testing is used for positional cloning experiments. But for all of the wonderful things that DNA testing can provide, perhaps its original usage is one of the most important. Not only can DNA evidence identify the guilty, it can vindicate the innocent and wrongfully accused or imprisoned.
It is DNA evidence that four men are looking at, though not all of them in the same light. For Jason Baldwin, favorable results would mean that he will not spend the rest of his life in prison. For Jessie Misskelley, DNA testing could not only allow him to go free, but provide evidence that maybe the West Memphis Police Department really did coerce a mentally retarded teenager into a false confession of a crime he did not commit. And Damien Echols may never have to take the ride from Cell Block Four of Varner Supermax over to Cummins Unit for a date with death via lethal injection.
But for Terry Hobbs, the final results produced by DNA testing may point to something darker. If these final results mimick the findings of the preliminary evidence, a man who has spent fourteen years condemning three teenagers for the murder of his step-son and two other children may not only lead to perhaps his own wrongful imprisonment as many have proclaimed is the case with the 'West Memphis Three', but a decade and a half of secrets could come spilling out and bring this tragedy to an end.
According to the preliminary results of over two years of DNA testing, no evidence has been found that links Echols, Baldwin, or Misskelley to the crime scene or the victims. This finding is all the more spectacular because not only have the results been acknowledged by the prosecution, it seemingly flies in the face of the myth that hair and fiber matches had been made linking the fabled 'West Memphis Three' to the murders, a theory that many feel largely helped Jason Baldwin into a life sentence and Damien Echols onto Death Row.
Secondary transfer occurs when a fiber or hair is physically transferred from one person to another. It should be noted that the hair and fibers that the prosecution suggests came about through secondary transfer in this case are inconclusive. There was one shirt fiber that “may be similar” to an article of clothing found in the home of a defendant. However, it has also been shown that this fiber is similar to materials found in the home of one of the victims as well. There has been a hair found that “could belong to” Damien Echols, but has not been matched. It has not been proven that either the hair or the fiber belongs to any of the WM3, and actual DNA testing refutes this suggestion, rather than solidifies it.
As far as facts are concerned, there is no physical evidence that Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin, or Jessie Misskelley had ever been near Robin Hood Hills, had ever met or been near any of the victims, or committed any sort of crime. There was no murder weapon recovered, no witnesses who can place Echols, Baldwin, or Misskelley at the scene of the crime, and no DNA evidence. So if the DNA evidence doesn’t point to these three, then who does it point to?
Well that's another story entirely. According to the DNA status report filed by the defense and acknowledged by the prosecution, DNA evidence has arisen that can not be linked to either the defendants or the victims. As of this time, there is no identity match for the DNA, except for one surprising piece of evidence that managed to turn up. A strand of hair belonging to Stevie Branch's step-father Terry Hobbs was found intertwined with a knot in one of the shoelaces used to tie up one of the victims. This is no longer a case of similarity or possibility. Terry Hobbs has been genetically matched to the scene of the crime through DNA testing.
Terry Hobbs says that the children played at his home often and perhaps a hair ended up in the shoelace through secondary transfer. In all likelihood this is a possibility. But what isn't said is that a shoelace bouncing around in Robin Hood Hills, being removed from a shoe, being knotted and tied to bind an 8 year old boy, being immersed in water, and lying around for over a decade – The hair was still with the shoelace. Still intertwined in a knot in the shoelace after all this time. That's either enough to arouse suspicion, or a very durable and strong piece of hair.
This evidence does not make Terry Hobbs a killer anymore than it does the three who have been convicted of the murders. However, there is a chance that if Terry Hobbs were tried in court on this evidence and prosecuted in the same fashion as the West Memphis Three, it would most likely be Terry Hobbs holding a cell in Varner Supermax, not Damien Echols.
These are very significant results in the DNA testing. No match for Damien Echols, no match for Jason Baldwin, no match for Jessie Misskelley. There is a match for Terry Hobbs and persons unknown. While this single strand of hair may not be the stuff that solid cases are made of, the Arkansas Judicial System finds it more than enough to indict, convict, and sentence people to life in prison and the death penalty.
In addition to a scientific match between Terry Hobbs and the crime scene, there is also strange occurrences regarding his wife Pam. After 17 years of marriage, Pam and Terry divorced for one reason or another. While Pam was going through various belongings, she happened upon a knife that her son Stevie Branch always carried on his person. According to Pam, Stevie always, always had this knife with him, and it would seem strange that the knife was not with Stevie but in Terry Hobbs’ possession. It is possible that the knife could have been discovered at the scene and given to Terry Hobbs. Except that Pam knew nothing about it.
If that is the case, this would be the second instance in which Terry Hobbs failed to inform his wife about her son, the first being when Stevie Branch originally went missing and Hobbs delayed telling his wife for 5 hours. Pam has openly stated that she is somewhat suspicious of her ex-husband, and is praying that the three men convicted are either guilty, or given a new trial.
The West Memphis Police Department decided to investigate Terry Hobbs. They have conducted interviews with Hobbs and are now looking for any other evidence that may point him out as the killer. Between the DNA results and his ex-wife’s growing suspicion, trouble certainly seems to be brewing for Terry Hobbs. Many supporters see this as justice coming far too late. To quote one of them, "After all, didn’t the ‘West Memphis Three’ get convicted on less evidence that that?"
For those who believe the WM3 are indeed guilty, this is just a defense tactic to try and get these men a new trial. For supporters of the case, this is a cause for hope that Echols, Baldwin, and Misskelley will be given a new trial, and that the real killer or killers will eventually be caught. Perhaps the final DNA results will yield the true answer to which persons decided to tie up three children, beat them to death, and leave them in a drainage ditch to die.
For Terry Hobbs, being linked to a crime scene where your step-son was found murdered, and being suspected of murder by your own ex-wife can't be a position he'd like to be in. Did a loving stepfather really plan and execute the murder of three 8 year old boys? Is the same man who shot his own brother in the abdomen, disabling him for life, guilty of capital murder?
Could it be that Terry Hobbs failed to tell his wife about her son's disappearance for five hours because he had a sinister reason to do so? For all parties involved, let's hope the final DNA test results will once and for all unmask the perpetrators of the murders and lay to rest the most famous case in Arkansas history.'
Go do some research on Damien Echols.....
You will discover what a sick, disgusting, piece of human garbage that guy is.
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
even if that is true, the REAL question is....is he a murderer?
it doesn't matter if he is a piece of shit, it matter if he is a murderer or not.
and the fact that he was convicted alone...as much evidence has since suggested....does not at all actually mean he was guilty. finding THAT out - which should've been done BEFORE conviction - really should be the absolute crux of this issue, regardless of what anyone may think of him as a human being.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
yes...
He is a CONVICTED murderer.....
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
and what of OJ?
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
While I don't know enough about the WM3 to say what he did or didn't do, him being convicted of murder doesn't necessarily mean the he committed murder. A lot of people over the years have been convicted of crimes that they didn't do and vice versa...
Would you say that OJ Simpson isn't a murderer because he was acquitted of it?
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
What of Charles Manson??? That guy NEVER murdered anyone....right???
But that piece of shit is rotting in prison...right????
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
but there is actual evidence linking Manson to crimes....
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
i know a few kids that saw santa claus.....
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
and another minor, who i believe is mentally handicapped with an extremely low iq, said he did it after being questioned for hours by the police alone....is there a single shred of evidence (other than this coerced confession) linking any of the 3 to the murders? i wonder how the 3 of them got rid of all the blood so quickly that would've been on them?
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Memphis_3
On June 3, police interrogated Misskelley. Misskelley, whose IQ was reported to be 72 (making him borderline mentally retarded), was questioned alone; his parents were not present during the interrogation.[4] Misskelley's father gave permission for Misskelley to go with police, but did not explicitly give permission for his minor son to be questioned or interrogated.[4] Misskelley was questioned for roughly twelve hours; only two segments, totaling 46 minutes, were recorded.[16] Misskelley quickly recanted his confession, citing intimidation, coercion, fatigue, and veiled threats from police.[4] During Misskelley's trial, Dr. Richard Ofshe, an expert on false confessions and police coercion and Professor of Sociology at UC Berkeley, testified that the brief recording of Misskelley's interrogation was a "classic example" of police coercion.[12] He has further described Misskelley's statement as "the stupidest fucking confession I've ever seen."[17] Critics have also stated that Misskelley's "confession" was in many respects inconsistent with the particulars of the crime scene and murder victims, including (for example) an "admission" that Misskelley "watched Damien rape one of the boys." Police had initially suspected that the boys were raped due to their dilated anuses, but forensic evidence later proved conclusively that the murdered boys had not been raped at all, and their dilated anuses were a normal post-mortem condition.[4][18][19]
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
you would think, right?
for me, the point is....there IS a lot of grey around these convictions, enough so that many question the validity of these convictions, and rightly so. if they ARE murderers, well they are right wehre they belong and any further evidence would just support that, no? more importantly, if they ARE innocent...a grave disservice has been done to these men, our justice system has failed...taken years away from them.....and we absolutely DO need to know who commited these crimes so that justice can rightly be served. idk what to believe, all i do know is there definitely seems far enough questioning and speculation that it only seems right and fair that further investigation is done to right it all, one way or another. i would also think that the parents of these children would want to know that the RIGHT men are in prison for the crimes commited against their children. maybe they are in prision right now...maybe they aren't...and i think it should be reevaluated.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Maybe you can do some research and get back to me with something that shows he's a sick, disgusting piece of human garbage? Thanks.
I suppose you think Leonard Peltier is also a sick, disgusting piece of shit because he happens to be a convicted murderer? Nevermind that the conviction is based on a bunch of fabricated evidence and lies.
That's right, Manson didn't kill anyone. So why is he in jail? Something to do with a sensationalistic media and an upcoming, ambitious, crooked lawyer called Vincent Bugliosi.
You could have just said "There are enough inconsistencies surrounding this case to warrant a re-trial".
Eddie must be a really bad judge of character. He spent 5 hours with him a week ago and regards him as a fine individual, and is convinced of his innocence. Maybe he should have consulted you first.
for some reason i see it kind of like in the big lebowski....speedy sitting there in a limo saying 'some new shit has come to light, man....' to Ed and Kelly Curtis
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
You've got to be joking about this one, right?
Shit, if Ed can tell a person's soul/guilt after 5 hours, why do we have a justice system? We could just have Ed sit down with suspects for 5 hours and tell us if he thinks they're guilty and not bother with trials ever!
There are a lot of problems with the WM3 case and they may or may not be guilty, but regardless the "Ed thinks he's too nice to be guilty" argument is incredibly stupid.
eddie is also switched on enough to realise, that he is brilliant and talented musician and not the messiah. not all of his fans are disciples and go along with whatever eddie believes in. speedy should be allowed to speak freely and have his opinions heard without the 'eddie vedder fan boy card' pulled on him.
something is not right..
Nope. Manson was innocent, and Bugliosi admitted Manson was innocent in his book.
I suppose you're of the opinion that Manson was a devil worshiper who brainwashed his 'followers' into killing for him?
Anyway, back to topic . Start another thread if you like.
Because reading my above post would clearly lead one to believe that Ed simply decided on a whim to go and sit down with Damien Echols for 5 hours and then proclaim his innocence, right?
The "Ed thinks he's too nice to be guilty" argument may be incredibly stupid, but then nobody here remotely suggested that. That's just a way of twisting what people say in order to get your point across - though I've no idea what your point is.
O.k, I'll pretend to play your game...Eddie Vedder - aka 'The Messiah' - decided on a whim to jump on the Memphis 3 case in order to appear to be cool, or something - and so last week he just happened to be in the area and so decided to pop in and spend 5 hours with Damien Echols. After this meeting Ed is now convinced of Damien Echol's innocence. Therefore, what we can all assume is that Ed Vedder is an asshole who never carries out any detailed prior research into issues such as those involving the murder of 3 youths. He simply jumps unthinkingly into these cases/causes in order to appear to be right-on, and to gain the favour of lefties and wackjobs.
Thanks to Soulsinging and TriumphantAngel for putting me in my place, and showing me the light.