Pilate: Thumbs up? Thumbs down? And why?

let the song protest

So what's everyone's feelings on Pilate? I know there are plenty of songs from the catalog that get little to no play anymore, but this is one I don't see too many requests for on this board whenever a new tour kicks into gear. Looks like it's only been played 14 times and hasn't been played since 2000.

I've always really liked this song, but yet something has kept me from loving it fully. However, it has what I think is a really great bridge, the part where the music comes down after the chorus and there's that gorgeous guitar strumming (stone?), then Ed sings over it:

Stunned by my own reflection
It's looking back, sees me too clearly
And I swore I'd never go there again
Not unlike a friend that politely drags you down
You down...you down...you down

which, for some reason, have always been some of my favorite of his lyrics. Really powerful stuff that I've always thought was seeing a part of yourself you aren't proud of, a part of yourself you'd rather forget, but the reflection will always haunt you and try as you might, you can't hide from it. His voice is fantastic on this part, as it is throughout all of Yield, really.

So what do you all think? I give it a thumbs up, even though it's far from perfect; I think it's a song that has fantastic verses and just a so-so chorus, so that's the part that keeps it from being easy to love, I suppose.

slightofjeff

Thumbs up, mostly due to the bridge, as you mentioned.

Second verse is pretty damned solid, too.

PearlJamPatriot

Never liked this song. "Like Pilate, I have a dog" sounds corny to me. Just my opinion.
"

mfc2006

the music in the chorus is fun & loose, but i have to agree w/ the lyrics there. not my favorite vocal line.

the bridge & verses are nice, though.

kiljoythemerciful

I think the OP highlighted the best part of this song. I give it a thumbs up. I actually find the lyrics to the chorus to be a great insight by Jeff.

I could be misremembering like Andy Petite, but I remember reading somewhere that Jeff was reading something about Pilate and it made him think about how he has become this figurehead of evil, but he was also just some dude. A human with a dog who was in a certain position of power at a certain time in history and is now the Pontius Pilate. It reminds me of Elliott Smith's line "I'm a little like you, more like son of sam". Obviously some different connotations btwn the two, but I think it's a great insight to see and understand the similarities we all have, whether that be with "good" people or, probably more importantly, with "evil people".

Better Dan

Bridge is one of my favorite parts of a PJ song. Chorus is one of my least fav parts of a PJ song. Overall though, I'll give it a thumbs up. Really depends on my mood though, as sometimes I'll skip it or just FFWD to the bridge LOL.


Daniel

edvedder913

Like many others have already said, I dislike the chorus, but enjoy the bridge. damn shame.

let the song protest

kiljoythemerciful wrote:

I think the OP highlighted the best part of this song. I give it a thumbs up. I actually find the lyrics to the chorus to be a great insight by Jeff.

I could be misremembering like Andy Petite, but I remember reading somewhere that Jeff was reading something about Pilate and it made him think about how he has become this figurehead of evil, but he was also just some dude. A human with a dog who was in a certain position of power at a certain time in history and is now the Pontius Pilate. It reminds me of Elliott Smith's line "I'm a little like you, more like son of sam". Obviously some different connotations btwn the two, but I think it's a great insight to see and understand the similarities we all have, whether that be with "good" people or, probably more importantly, with "evil people".

i totally forgot that jeff wrote these lyrics. that's a really great story about jeff reading about pilate, it provides some great insight into the song. i agree with another poster who said "damn shame" b/c, really, this has the makings of a great song, but i think it just needed some more cohesiveness b/w verse & chorus, i dunno. but the parts of this song that move me, move me so much, that it makes me think of the entire song fondly. so i can overlook some of the other stuff about it.

LukinFan

slightofjeff wrote:

Thumbs up, mostly due to the bridge, as you mentioned.

Second verse is pretty damned solid, too.

I agree 100% with this. Damn good song

kiljoythemerciful

Pale Blue Eyes wrote:

kiljoythemerciful wrote:

I think the OP highlighted the best part of this song. I give it a thumbs up. I actually find the lyrics to the chorus to be a great insight by Jeff.

I could be misremembering like Andy Petite, but I remember reading somewhere that Jeff was reading something about Pilate and it made him think about how he has become this figurehead of evil, but he was also just some dude. A human with a dog who was in a certain position of power at a certain time in history and is now the Pontius Pilate. It reminds me of Elliott Smith's line "I'm a little like you, more like son of sam". Obviously some different connotations btwn the two, but I think it's a great insight to see and understand the similarities we all have, whether that be with "good" people or, probably more importantly, with "evil people".

i totally forgot that jeff wrote these lyrics. that's a really great story about jeff reading about pilate, it provides some great insight into the song. i agree with another poster who said "damn shame" b/c, really, this has the makings of a great song, but i think it just needed some more cohesiveness b/w verse & chorus, i dunno. but the parts of this song that move me, move me so much, that it makes me think of the entire song fondly. so i can overlook some of the other stuff about it.

Totally agree with the lack of cohesiveness, the parts really conflict with each other (I don't mind this so much, but know what ya mean). I think this also makes the song really hard for them to perform live.

let the song protest

kiljoythemerciful wrote:

Pale Blue Eyes wrote:

kiljoythemerciful wrote:

I think the OP highlighted the best part of this song. I give it a thumbs up. I actually find the lyrics to the chorus to be a great insight by Jeff.

I could be misremembering like Andy Petite, but I remember reading somewhere that Jeff was reading something about Pilate and it made him think about how he has become this figurehead of evil, but he was also just some dude. A human with a dog who was in a certain position of power at a certain time in history and is now the Pontius Pilate. It reminds me of Elliott Smith's line "I'm a little like you, more like son of sam". Obviously some different connotations btwn the two, but I think it's a great insight to see and understand the similarities we all have, whether that be with "good" people or, probably more importantly, with "evil people".

i totally forgot that jeff wrote these lyrics. that's a really great story about jeff reading about pilate, it provides some great insight into the song. i agree with another poster who said "damn shame" b/c, really, this has the makings of a great song, but i think it just needed some more cohesiveness b/w verse & chorus, i dunno. but the parts of this song that move me, move me so much, that it makes me think of the entire song fondly. so i can overlook some of the other stuff about it.

Totally agree with the lack of cohesiveness, the parts really conflict with each other (I don't mind this so much, but know what ya mean). I think this also makes the song really hard for them to perform live.

yeah, it does seem like it could be difficult live, especially after all these years of not playing it regularly. it's just a bit awkward, i suppose, but that's part of its charm also.

Kilgore_Trout

thumbs up based almost entirely on what is perhaps the best bridge the band has ever written... atleast lyrically

the rest of the song is average but enjoyable

i think it fits in with yield pretty well (not to say that yield is average... i just mean thematically and as far as flow)

OffHeGoes132

Thumbs up for me. I think it's a fun song and I'm one who actually likes the "awkwardness" of the chorus in relation to the verses as opposed to some who plain don't like it. Evacuation, at least to me, is a prime example of a not-so-good chorus. Again, just my opinion. I've never heard it live, but I dig the album version.

kiljoythemerciful

OffHeGoes132 wrote:

Thumbs up for me. I think it's a fun song and I'm one who actually likes the "awkwardness" of the chorus in relation to the verses as opposed to some who plain don't like it. Evacuation, at least to me, is a prime example of a not-so-good chorus. Again, just my opinion. I've never heard it live, but I dig the album version.

I was going to mention the similarity btwn these two songs with the clashing parts and all. I give a thumbs up to both

dreamweaver

bad lyrics? are you kidding me? "what was once anger... had now been turned into reflection" -ed ved.


this song is big piece of why yield is one of Pearl Jam's masterpieces.

on top of being lyrically significant to the whole philosophy of the album, in my opinion, it has the most rocking chorus on the album. Stone's is just pounding those hard 8th note bar chords while jack holds the 2 and 4, and the y all sing "like Pilate...."

one of those most creative songs I have ever heard from them

slightofjeff

kiljoythemerciful wrote:

I think the OP highlighted the best part of this song. I give it a thumbs up. I actually find the lyrics to the chorus to be a great insight by Jeff.

I could be misremembering like Andy Petite, but I remember reading somewhere that Jeff was reading something about Pilate and it made him think about how he has become this figurehead of evil, but he was also just some dude. A human with a dog who was in a certain position of power at a certain time in history and is now the Pontius Pilate. It reminds me of Elliott Smith's line "I'm a little like you, more like son of sam". Obviously some different connotations btwn the two, but I think it's a great insight to see and understand the similarities we all have, whether that be with "good" people or, probably more importantly, with "evil people".

The book was called "The Master and Margarita." Margarita was the name of the dog. Pilate was its master.

From what I remember, the book chronicles Pilate's life after sentencing Jesus to death. He is filled with regret, much of which manifests itself on these walks with Margarita (can't recall if the dog itself talks back or not).

To me, the chorus "Like Pilate, I have a dog" means, "I've had regrets in my life, too."

The fact that Margarita is a dog makes some of the verse lyrics even more beautiful. "Walks me out of town ... " Usually, it's the human that walks the dog ... in this case, it's the dog (or, more specially, the regret that the dog symbolizes) that walks the man.

Also, "one's a crowd." Damned if that isn't one of the best line's in the Pearl Jam catalogue.

Jeff has actually written some Pearl Jam lyrics that I think can rival Ed's. This song would be one such example.

EDIT: Hmmm ... apparently, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_and_Margarita

kiljoythemerciful

dreamweaver wrote:

bad lyrics? are you kidding me? "what was once anger... had now been turned into reflection" -ed ved.


this song is big piece of why yield is one of Pearl Jam's masterpieces.

on top of being lyrically significant to the whole philosophy of the album, in my opinion, it has the most rocking chorus on the album. Stone's is just pounding those hard 8th note bar chords while jack holds the 2 and 4, and the y all sing "like Pilate...."

one of those most creative songs I have ever heard from them

Jeff wrote the lyrics. Are you saying Ed did? But yeah, great lyrics by Jeff.

kiljoythemerciful

slightofjeff wrote:

kiljoythemerciful wrote:

I think the OP highlighted the best part of this song. I give it a thumbs up. I actually find the lyrics to the chorus to be a great insight by Jeff.

I could be misremembering like Andy Petite, but I remember reading somewhere that Jeff was reading something about Pilate and it made him think about how he has become this figurehead of evil, but he was also just some dude. A human with a dog who was in a certain position of power at a certain time in history and is now the Pontius Pilate. It reminds me of Elliott Smith's line "I'm a little like you, more like son of sam". Obviously some different connotations btwn the two, but I think it's a great insight to see and understand the similarities we all have, whether that be with "good" people or, probably more importantly, with "evil people".

The book was called "The Master and Margarita." Margarita was the name of the dog. Pilate was its master.

From what I remember, the book chronicles Pilate's life after sentencing Jesus to death. He is filled with regret, much of which manifests itself on these walks with Margarita (can't recall if the dog itself talks back or not).

To me, the chorus "Like Pilate, I have a dog" means, "I've had regrets in my life, too."

The fact that Margarita is a dog makes some of the verse lyrics even more beautiful. "Walks me out of town ... " Usually, it's the human that walks the dog ... in this case, it's the dog (or, more specially, the regret that the dog symbolizes) that walks the man.

Also, "one's a crowd." Damned if that isn't one of the best line's in the Pearl Jam catalogue.

Jeff has actually written some Pearl Jam lyrics that I think can rival Ed's. This song would be one such example.

Ah, great info. Thanks, will have to see if my library has it. Agree with your point of Jeff's lyrical skills. NAIS has some standout lines as well.

slightofjeff

kiljoythemerciful wrote:

Ah, great info. Thanks, will have to see if my library has it. Agree with your point of Jeff's lyrical skills. NAIS has some standout lines as well.

Here's some info, straight from the bassist's mouth, courtesy of a 1998 Guitar World interview:

"I think 'Pilate' was the question I was asking myself, and 'Low Light' was the answer, the realization. Have you ever read The Master and Margarita (by Mikhail Bulgakov)? I just read that book, and at the end they talk about Pontius Pilate being all alone on a mountain with his dog. He couldn't sleep and he couldn't function. It really struck me hard, because at that point I was feeling very alone. I've always had this recurring dream about being old and just me and my dog sitting on the porch.

It wasn't necessarily a sad dream or a premonition, but it did get me to thinking about why Pilate was so alone and freaked out. Then I realized he didn't get to finish his conversation with Jesus—that's why he can't function, because he didn't tie up the loose ends in his life.

Later, I was playing the guitar, and I was hit so hard by this amazing, emotion. In that moment the words "low light" came out, and somehow those were the only words to explain what I was feeling. It was a kind of gratefulness at finding that place of calm and peace at my center and getting a glimpse of the person I could choose to be.

It was the purest happiness that I've experienced in a long time, that particular emotion. God, I thought I was going to explode. I feel very lucky to have been able to put it down on tape that morning and work thorough it until it became a song."

kiljoythemerciful

Yes! Thanks, StJ.

let the song protest

Great story from Jeff about the connection b/w Pilate and Lowlight! This is fantastic stuff, thanks for sharing, all of you!

It all only makes me dig this song more, and it's great to hear others are as fascinated by it as I am. I know what album I'll be playing on the iPod at the gym tonight...

Jeanwah

slightofjeff wrote:

Here's some info, straight from the bassist's mouth, courtesy of a 1998 Guitar World interview:

"I think 'Pilate' was the question I was asking myself, and 'Low Light' was the answer, the realization. Have you ever read The Master and Margarita (by Mikhail Bulgakov)? I just read that book, and at the end they talk about Pontius Pilate being all alone on a mountain with his dog. He couldn't sleep and he couldn't function. It really struck me hard, because at that point I was feeling very alone. I've always had this recurring dream about being old and just me and my dog sitting on the porch.

It wasn't necessarily a sad dream or a premonition, but it did get me to thinking about why Pilate was so alone and freaked out. Then I realized he didn't get to finish his conversation with Jesus—that's why he can't function, because he didn't tie up the loose ends in his life.

Later, I was playing the guitar, and I was hit so hard by this amazing, emotion. In that moment the words "low light" came out, and somehow those were the only words to explain what I was feeling. It was a kind of gratefulness at finding that place of calm and peace at my center and getting a glimpse of the person I could choose to be.

It was the purest happiness that I've experienced in a long time, that particular emotion. God, I thought I was going to explode. I feel very lucky to have been able to put it down on tape that morning and work thorough it until it became a song."

Thanks for adding this! I've never cared for Pilate, solely due to the chorus; something about it always made me cringe although I've always liked the melody of the rest of the song.
I'll listen to it (and Lowlight) a bit differently now.

kiljoythemerciful

Pale Blue Eyes wrote:

Great story from Jeff about the connection b/w Pilate and Lowlight! This is fantastic stuff, thanks for sharing, all of you!

It all only makes me dig this song more, and it's great to hear others are as fascinated by it as I am. I know what album I'll be playing on the iPod at the gym tonight...

I luuuuv posts like this. Yeah, I was forced to play Yield after reading those statements by Jeff. Dude was inspired for these songs.

Kilgore_Trout

kiljoythemerciful wrote:

Pale Blue Eyes wrote:

Great story from Jeff about the connection b/w Pilate and Lowlight! This is fantastic stuff, thanks for sharing, all of you!

It all only makes me dig this song more, and it's great to hear others are as fascinated by it as I am. I know what album I'll be playing on the iPod at the gym tonight...

I luuuuv posts like this. Yeah, I was forced to play Yield after reading those statements by Jeff. Dude was inspired for these songs.

hey another champaign fan! waddup?? you a student too?

im with ya... just popped in yield to give it an attentive listen... if/when they bust out pilate live i hope they play low light right after

kiljoythemerciful

sgossard3 wrote:

kiljoythemerciful wrote:

Pale Blue Eyes wrote:

Great story from Jeff about the connection b/w Pilate and Lowlight! This is fantastic stuff, thanks for sharing, all of you!

It all only makes me dig this song more, and it's great to hear others are as fascinated by it as I am. I know what album I'll be playing on the iPod at the gym tonight...

I luuuuv posts like this. Yeah, I was forced to play Yield after reading those statements by Jeff. Dude was inspired for these songs.

hey another champaign fan! waddup?? you a student too?

im with ya... just popped in yield to give it an attentive listen... if/when they bust out pilate live i hope they play low light right after

Yeah, we should start a 'paign jam club

I actually teach over at Parkland College, but I may be going to UI in '10 to get phd. I wouldn't mind seeing a pilate, lowlight 1 2 punch in Chicago.

Vedder_Girl77

It is a decent song. Not my favorite PJ song but I agree with others who have said that it fits in well with Yield. Was a good B-side to Given to Fly.

let the song protest

I also want to add how well Ed sings this song. it's another stellar vocal performance from him, in line with the rest of his excellent singing on that album. not sure what it was about Yield, but his voice had a real warmth, i think, that was showcased very well on the slower or mid-tempo numbers. I always remember on SVT where he talks about previous to that album he'd been wrestling with the notion of it being undignified to be a singer, or something like that, so part of me has always wondered if he decided to heck with that, I'm going to sing the hell out of this record for Yield. Either way, great stuff.

Kilgore_Trout

kiljoythemerciful wrote:

Yeah, we should start a 'paign jam club

I actually teach over at Parkland College, but I may be going to UI in '10 to get phd. I wouldn't mind seeing a pilate, lowlight 1 2 punch in Chicago.

sounds like a plan... we can hijack the murphys jukebox

lemme know if you wanna carpool to the chicago shows from champaign... im friendly enough and it couldnt hurt to save on gas

Evacuation Rules

I think it's a nice song but it would have worked better as a b-side.

let the song protest

Evacuation Rules wrote:

I think it's a nice song but it would have worked better as a b-side.

Ya know, I wonder if it had been a b-side, if more people would be into b/c it was rare and a secret treasure, like a Leatherman or Black, Red, Yellow (two excellent b-sides, IMHO).

ComeToTX

fits well on yield. lucky enough to see it live in '98