why are students of literary studies always so smarmy?
signed, a student of literary studies
I'm not a student, matey, I'm a master.
I'm gonna hate myself for asking, but based on whose assessment, your own?
The universities that award postgraduate degrees generally tend to assess their high- scoring students as having mastered their particular discipline of research, come the end of their study.
The universities that award postgraduate degrees generally tend to assess their high- scoring students as having mastered their particular discipline of research, come the end of their study.
They do. And to be honest, Masters of such study would mostly drive me insane on a board like this, but your posts dont. theyre a welcome addition. If you're qualified in it, why apologise for it. Its like a lawyer apologising for knowing the law.
If more people argued lyrics (whichever way they want) by examining the piece properly, and backing up their opinions with actual considered reference to the piece, at least the threads would be more interesting. 10 well-researched different opinions would grab me more than 40 that dont really try. Im guilty of not trying too, but the point stands
Man, I can't believe Eddie banged his own mother, I never knew that.
No but seriously, didn't Ed say he wrote and recorded the lyrics for all three songs in two hours? He was probably like "hmmm lets see, I don't know what a Mother Love Bone is but these guys must know a thing or two about the Green River killer, so I'll try to write lyrics from a serial killers perspective."
I saw a picture of Ed's real dad, Ed doesn't really look like him.
The universities that award postgraduate degrees generally tend to assess their high- scoring students as having mastered their particular discipline of research, come the end of their study.
They do. And to be honest, Masters of such study would mostly drive me insane on a board like this, but your posts dont. theyre a welcome addition. If you're qualified in it, why apologise for it. Its like a lawyer apologising for knowing the law.
If more people argued lyrics (whichever way they want) by examining the piece properly, and backing up their opinions with actual considered reference to the piece, at least the threads would be more interesting. 10 well-researched different opinions would grab me more than 40 that dont really try. Im guilty of not trying too, but the point stands
I don't feel that "education" should thwart freedom of expression. Everyone is entitled to their interpretation, regardless of what an authority may declare on a subject.
I believe this forum, is exactly that - a destination for all opinions. An authoritative slam of someone's opinion is not very becoming. Higher education teaches one to think, not regurgitate. :geek:
~I want to realize brotherhood or identity not merely with the beings called human, but I want to realize identity with all life, even with such things as crawl upon earth.~
Mohandas K. Gandhi
~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
Henry David Thoreau
I don't feel that "education" should thwart freedom of expression. Everyone is entitled to their interpretation, regardless of what an authority may declare on a subject.
I believe this forum, is exactly that - a destination for all opinions. An authoritative slam of someone's opinion is not very becoming. Higher education teaches one to think, not regurgitate. :geek:
I agree with you completely. That was exactly my point. If i wanted to read/hear solely "expert" opinions, i obviously wouldnt come here. But, If i can have someone point out literary techniques in Eds lyrics that ive never noticed myself i'll love to hear it.
Someone who hasnt studied it is most likely not going to point it out. For example, there was an English teacher who posted her lesson of "Black" that she taught her class. It revealed little things i hadnt noticed myself before. Or the political interpretation of HelpHelp that U R A Crazy Breed posted recently...id never considered that angle of a song before.
Its not about who provides the discussion, its that people provide something NEW to discuss, thats all.
Im not interested in people "giving the right answer" in a music discussion - neither was Fins, that was my point.
LA Times, 5/1/94
==================
After listening to the tape, Vedder went surfing and the music played over and over in his head. In the company of the waves, he began framing lyrics to go with the music. He raced back home to his recorder, and with the sand still on his feet he sang the words to the song that eventually became "Alive," one of the centerpieces on the first Pearl Jam album.
Though the song, with its screaming chorus of "I'm still alive," has been widely viewed as a statement of youthful self-affirmation, Vedder designed it as the story of a mother being drawn sexually to her teenage son because she sees traces of her late husband in him.
The experience -- which Vedder insists is not autobiographical -- damages the son psychologically, turning him into a serial killer (detailed in "Once") who is executed in prison ("Footsteps"). It's not hard to see the story as a sort of Gen X update of the confused youth in The Who's "Tommy."
==================
I don't feel that "education" should thwart freedom of expression. Everyone is entitled to their interpretation, regardless of what an authority may declare on a subject.
I believe this forum, is exactly that - a destination for all opinions. An authoritative slam of someone's opinion is not very becoming. Higher education teaches one to think, not regurgitate. :geek:
I agree with you completely. That was exactly my point. If i wanted to read/hear solely "expert" opinions, i obviously wouldnt come here. But, If i can have someone point out literary techniques in Eds lyrics that ive never noticed myself i'll love to hear it.
Someone who hasnt studied it is most likely not going to point it out. For example, there was an English teacher who posted her lesson of "Black" that she taught her class. It revealed little things i hadnt noticed myself before. Or the political interpretation of HelpHelp that U R A Crazy Breed posted recently...id never considered that angle of a song before.
Its not about who provides the discussion, its that people provide something NEW to discuss, thats all.
Im not interested in people "giving the right answer" in a music discussion - neither was Fins, that was my point.
Thankyou for the thoughtful response, however my comment wasn't directed toward you. It was my intent to point out that a discussion becomes less of a free exchange when one feels justified, based on educational credentials, to pursue arguments utilizing a condescending style.
Yes, participants on this board should be open to the opinions of everyone, even those of a pompous ass.
~I want to realize brotherhood or identity not merely with the beings called human, but I want to realize identity with all life, even with such things as crawl upon earth.~
Mohandas K. Gandhi
~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
Henry David Thoreau
i was responding to asher who suggested Black, alive and Jeremy were all "semiautobiographical works of fiction". I am not too sure exactly what that means. I was suggesting that all those songs are really more fact based than fiction based.
If you read somebody's biography, it means (or is supposed to mean) that every single word of that biography happened to the person.
Alive is based on an actual experience, but it is extrapolated to include events that did not actually happen. Ed's mother did not really try to fuck him.
Hence "semi" autobiographical.
Same with Jeremy. It is based on the actual newspaper account, plus something that happened to Ed growing up. But all the stuff about Jeremy drawing pictures and biting ladies on the tit is pure conjecture, sprung from Ed's imagination.
"Based on actual experiences" is not the same as autobiographical.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
its pretty obvious ed's childhood anger didnt come out of his parents not buying him a surf board for christmas or something. it grew out of something much more serious and sinister.
I always figured the trouble from his childhood stemmed from the step-dad. Eddie wrote Better Man when he was about 14 so he clearly had issues with the guy. The way he treated his mother and most likely the things he did to Eddie. I would definitely assume verbal abuse (isn't that Step-Dad 101?) and probably some physical abuse. Maybe the guy was a drinker; his mom was left lying alone in bed while her husband was at the bar until 4 in the morning. Wouldn't doubt he cheated on her either.
While I don’t think Eddie actually had sex with his mother, it’s not hard to believe that she told him how much he looked like his father once he became a teenager. (Shortly after she broke the big news about daddy to him.) When you connect the picture painted in Better Man of his mother who is in a loveless marriage and has a son that looks like a former lover, it makes sense that Eddie noticed some change in the way his mom looked at him at that point in his life. Finding out your dad is not your dad and oh by the way he also dead is going to mess with your head quite a bit. Having your mom point out all of the similarities between you and him all of a sudden could easily seem a bit creepy.
On a lighter note... What would childhood Eddie have done with a surfboard in Evanston? Drift away into Lake Michigan?
Why go, Animal? Foxy Mop in my tree, no way. Gods' Dice Get Right Come back amongst the waves yellow moon. https://www.instagram.com/knowcode/
Comments
The universities that award postgraduate degrees generally tend to assess their high- scoring students as having mastered their particular discipline of research, come the end of their study.
They do. And to be honest, Masters of such study would mostly drive me insane on a board like this, but your posts dont. theyre a welcome addition. If you're qualified in it, why apologise for it. Its like a lawyer apologising for knowing the law.
If more people argued lyrics (whichever way they want) by examining the piece properly, and backing up their opinions with actual considered reference to the piece, at least the threads would be more interesting. 10 well-researched different opinions would grab me more than 40 that dont really try. Im guilty of not trying too, but the point stands
No but seriously, didn't Ed say he wrote and recorded the lyrics for all three songs in two hours? He was probably like "hmmm lets see, I don't know what a Mother Love Bone is but these guys must know a thing or two about the Green River killer, so I'll try to write lyrics from a serial killers perspective."
I saw a picture of Ed's real dad, Ed doesn't really look like him.
I don't feel that "education" should thwart freedom of expression. Everyone is entitled to their interpretation, regardless of what an authority may declare on a subject.
I believe this forum, is exactly that - a destination for all opinions. An authoritative slam of someone's opinion is not very becoming. Higher education teaches one to think, not regurgitate. :geek:
Mohandas K. Gandhi
~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
Henry David Thoreau
I agree with you completely. That was exactly my point. If i wanted to read/hear solely "expert" opinions, i obviously wouldnt come here. But, If i can have someone point out literary techniques in Eds lyrics that ive never noticed myself i'll love to hear it.
Someone who hasnt studied it is most likely not going to point it out. For example, there was an English teacher who posted her lesson of "Black" that she taught her class. It revealed little things i hadnt noticed myself before. Or the political interpretation of HelpHelp that U R A Crazy Breed posted recently...id never considered that angle of a song before.
Its not about who provides the discussion, its that people provide something NEW to discuss, thats all.
Im not interested in people "giving the right answer" in a music discussion - neither was Fins, that was my point.
LA Times, 5/1/94
==================
After listening to the tape, Vedder went surfing and the music played over and over in his head. In the company of the waves, he began framing lyrics to go with the music. He raced back home to his recorder, and with the sand still on his feet he sang the words to the song that eventually became "Alive," one of the centerpieces on the first Pearl Jam album.
Though the song, with its screaming chorus of "I'm still alive," has been widely viewed as a statement of youthful self-affirmation, Vedder designed it as the story of a mother being drawn sexually to her teenage son because she sees traces of her late husband in him.
The experience -- which Vedder insists is not autobiographical -- damages the son psychologically, turning him into a serial killer (detailed in "Once") who is executed in prison ("Footsteps"). It's not hard to see the story as a sort of Gen X update of the confused youth in The Who's "Tommy."
==================
Thankyou for the thoughtful response, however my comment wasn't directed toward you. It was my intent to point out that a discussion becomes less of a free exchange when one feels justified, based on educational credentials, to pursue arguments utilizing a condescending style.
Yes, participants on this board should be open to the opinions of everyone, even those of a pompous ass.
Mohandas K. Gandhi
~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
Henry David Thoreau
If you read somebody's biography, it means (or is supposed to mean) that every single word of that biography happened to the person.
Alive is based on an actual experience, but it is extrapolated to include events that did not actually happen. Ed's mother did not really try to fuck him.
Hence "semi" autobiographical.
Same with Jeremy. It is based on the actual newspaper account, plus something that happened to Ed growing up. But all the stuff about Jeremy drawing pictures and biting ladies on the tit is pure conjecture, sprung from Ed's imagination.
"Based on actual experiences" is not the same as autobiographical.
for the least they could possibly do
I always figured the trouble from his childhood stemmed from the step-dad. Eddie wrote Better Man when he was about 14 so he clearly had issues with the guy. The way he treated his mother and most likely the things he did to Eddie. I would definitely assume verbal abuse (isn't that Step-Dad 101?) and probably some physical abuse. Maybe the guy was a drinker; his mom was left lying alone in bed while her husband was at the bar until 4 in the morning. Wouldn't doubt he cheated on her either.
While I don’t think Eddie actually had sex with his mother, it’s not hard to believe that she told him how much he looked like his father once he became a teenager. (Shortly after she broke the big news about daddy to him.) When you connect the picture painted in Better Man of his mother who is in a loveless marriage and has a son that looks like a former lover, it makes sense that Eddie noticed some change in the way his mom looked at him at that point in his life. Finding out your dad is not your dad and oh by the way he also dead is going to mess with your head quite a bit. Having your mom point out all of the similarities between you and him all of a sudden could easily seem a bit creepy.
On a lighter note... What would childhood Eddie have done with a surfboard in Evanston? Drift away into Lake Michigan?
Foxy Mop in my tree, no way.
Gods' Dice Get Right
Come back amongst the waves yellow moon.
https://www.instagram.com/knowcode/