Serious music fans don't download?

musicismylife78

On the E-music wiki page, this is a quote:

he type of college students who tend to participate in file-sharing either couldn't or wouldn't pay for music online, so eMusic is more targeted at avid music fans.[5] Gene Rumsey, general manager of Concord Music Group, says eMusic fans are not the typical college-age file sharers. They are more rabid fans who he believes are less likely to engage in online song swapping.[4] Serious music fans would also appreciate that musicians are actually paid for every download.[5]


the interesting part is of course the suggestion that avid music fans are people who pay for music. And that "serious music fans" equal people who pay for every download.

I know its a wiki page, but the quote is basically verbatim a quote from an actual article.

Why is this issue framed this way? So people who download music illegally are less serious music fans than those who go on e-music and pay or go to the store and buy a cd? Is a person who downloads music illegally really not an avid music fan?

Are people who download illegally less fanatical about music? Are they any less rabid than other folks?

This whole assertion is patently ridiculous. The college kid downloading illegally in his or her dorm room is most likely a more voracious and intense music lover than the middle aged person who pays however much for an e-music subscription. When I was in college, people downloaded alot of music. Somehow I dont picture e-music subscribers downloading a ton of stuff.

Isnt a person with 5,000 cd's downloaded off Bit Torrent just as much a rabid and voracious consumer of a huge diet of music, as the person with 5,000 cd's but all bought from legitimate stores and off iTunes or e-music?

Its one more attempt to demonize the illegal downloader, and trying to scare people into paying for music, when the majority of people stopped doing that years ago.

musicismylife78

even the most hardened illegal downloader wants the artist to get paid. I think its a question, however, of the greedy billion dollar corporations and record labels who whine about not making money off it.

There is that great new documentary on the music industry on Hulu. There is quote about how, the record industry, got people to buy records, lps. Then they got people to replenish their entire collections and buy tapes. So they made MORE money. Then when Cd's came out, people replenished their collections again. So they made MORE money. And now, that people are revolting, the record labels are crying foul.

The record companies and record industry made billions off of music fans. Of course they are pissed off illegal downloaders are eating into their profit margin. Who wouldnt be. The question though is, do we have a right to say, "hell no" to continuing to fund record companies who dont give a damn about us, the consumers, people who got them rich?

DewieCox

I think there is such a small percentage of serious music fans, so it seems that way. Casual music fans are doin the most pirating, but I'd guess there aren't many serious music fans that don't dl.

keeponrockin

musicismylife78 wrote:

even the most hardened illegal downloader wants the artist to get paid. I think its a question, however, of the greedy billion dollar corporations and record labels who whine about not making money off it.

There is that great new documentary on the music industry on Hulu. There is quote about how, the record industry, got people to buy records, lps. Then they got people to replenish their entire collections and buy tapes. So they made MORE money. Then when Cd's came out, people replenished their collections again. So they made MORE money. And now, that people are revolting, the record labels are crying foul.

The record companies and record industry made billions off of music fans. Of course they are pissed off illegal downloaders are eating into their profit margin. Who wouldnt be. The question though is, do we have a right to say, "hell no" to continuing to fund record companies who dont give a damn about us, the consumers, people who got them rich?

You could always not buy the new format... IMO artists should be paid for their work, and recod companies need to compensated for signing the band/studio time etc... I think those serious about supporting music should pay for it. I'm 18 and work my ass off for my CD collection, but I paid for everything on there.

South of Seattle

I haven't DL'd a full new Album since Riot Act.

I'd rather wait, there's plenty of good music to listen too. I could never get to it all in my lifetime.

JordyWordy

i kind of fall in the middle here. Every two or three months, i will download a shitload of albums. Out of these, i usually listen to half of them pretty regularly (in the car, at night, in background at work, lots of the time). If i like the stuff, I will buy anything i get after that by the band/musician, or most likely, buy gig tickets.

Ive had a few times where i bought a ticket knowing that i wouldnt be able to go cos of work/exams, but felt that buying a ticket was at least money gone straight to the musician.

i buy for Local Irish groups, or smaller bands. I wouldnt screw them out of money. I wouldnt lose sleep over downloading an old Stones or U2 record though.

intodeep

I rather go to a show or buy a t shirt. The artist gets a lot more money.

why pay the record label when you can pay the artist.

I download a good bit, but there are certain bands i always buy when their music comes out.

hate me for it if you will

Stephen Flow

I would respond to this but I don't have the energy required to do so. I'll just say that when I do download music, it's not 1 song, it's full albums AND it's usually lossless FLAC files.

soulsinging

musicismylife78 wrote:

even the most hardened illegal downloader wants the artist to get paid.

Yet you don't pay. Keep rationalizing dude.

whgarrett

People will do and say anything to rationalize their behavior and justify their actions. Stealing is stealing.

South of Seattle

The reason I loved file sharing when it first came out was to find b-sides and live shows. That was what got me hooked in the first place. Plus I'd always read about artists and it was a good way to sample some of their music.

Now with social networking and youtube I can hear the songs there without buying or downloading illegally.

The only thing I do that is not RIAA friendly is copy cd's from friends.

mookeywrench

serious music fans help keep the mediums used to discover/access their music thriving.

And what is the number one medium for music? Record Labels!!!!

I'd love to hear the percentage of aritsts in anyone's record collection where the music was purchased directly from the artist, and the artist came up with all of the funds for recording the album or the tour was completely funded by the artist and that's where you bought the album.

The only one's I have are Clap Your Hands Say Yeah's first one (before they signed to a record label for a distribution deal), NIN's latest two, Whalebones EP, and Entrance - Prayer of Death.

This equates to roughly .42 of a percent.

Everything else I owe to the record label that the artist was signed to, a magazine, a record store, or KEXP all of which I've payed money to.

Back_Pedal

I'm guilty of downloading a bit of music - like how I recently dl'd Sonic Youth's enw album - but if I like it I'll go out and buy it, because I love looking at the artwork and liner notes, with the added bonus of having a hard copy of the music to boot.

musicismylife78

what about public libraries though. My local library has many cd's for borrowing. Is copying cd's you borrow from the library stealing? Or how about making copies of an album from a hard copy a friend bought?

When VCR's first came out, tv companies acted the same way. They felt taping a show, or being able to tape one, meant it was cutting into their profit. I know the economy is bad for everyone, tv companies included, but Comcast is a multimillion dollar company. I dont think people taping the latest episode of Scrubs is cutting into their profit margin!

The point is, the record company is always gonna feel people are stealing. Even if they set up a new way of distribution, which is what has to happen. Any album copied, is profit taken away from the record company.

As I said before, the record industry made billions off people. And now that it seems people no longer feel paying 20 bucks a pop for a cd is justified, the record companies are pissed

musicismylife78

I also think you have to look at whats socially acceptable. If it was just a few rotten apples downloading illegally, maybe they could real them in, fine them, jail them etc...

But filesharing is such a massive operation now. And cd sales are so low.

You cant stop the illegal downloading. And even if you could, fining a mother of 4, 1.5 million dollars aint gonna do much!

Zoso

thats bullshit in my opinion... I'm a huge music fan I take my music VERY seriously. Because of my financial situation right now I have d/l a lot of albums the last 6 months and don't see the relevance whether I'm a huge music fan or not. Obviously when my financial situation picks up I won't feel the need the d/l music as much anymore. Otherwise I would hardly have any new music since xmas. It's not my fault if the new wilco leaked (note: I'm going to buy wilco (the album)).

tybird

whgarrett wrote:

People will do and say anything to rationalize their behavior and justify their actions. Stealing is stealing.

+1

Lifted

keeponrockin wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

even the most hardened illegal downloader wants the artist to get paid. I think its a question, however, of the greedy billion dollar corporations and record labels who whine about not making money off it.

There is that great new documentary on the music industry on Hulu. There is quote about how, the record industry, got people to buy records, lps. Then they got people to replenish their entire collections and buy tapes. So they made MORE money. Then when Cd's came out, people replenished their collections again. So they made MORE money. And now, that people are revolting, the record labels are crying foul.

The record companies and record industry made billions off of music fans. Of course they are pissed off illegal downloaders are eating into their profit margin. Who wouldnt be. The question though is, do we have a right to say, "hell no" to continuing to fund record companies who dont give a damn about us, the consumers, people who got them rich?

You could always not buy the new format... IMO artists should be paid for their work, and recod companies need to compensated for signing the band/studio time etc... I think those serious about supporting music should pay for it. I'm 18 and work my ass off for my CD collection, but I paid for everything on there.

i used to have the same mindset until a couple days ago when i figured out how to download pretty much any album there is onto i-tunes for free. (google the album title.rar and you're sure to find a link) anyway, i have a huge cd collection, i don't own an i-pod, i still have a discman, i've spent tens of thousands of dollars on albums in my 25 years of life, but i'm not doin it anymore. it's kinda bullshit, i didn't ask for it to be like this. why should i be blowing my hard earned dollars on these albums that may or may not be worth the money while 99% of the population is just getting everything for free. i don't make a lot of money, not nearly as much as the musicians i listen to make. why should i feel bad for them because i didn't pay for their cd? they still make a shit ton of money off of touring and merchandise, and even if they aren't one of the wealthier bands, they sure as hell have more money than me. i used to think you should buy music to support the artists, but really, the music isn't gonna die, i mean no one is paying for music anymore and it's still here. if i was rich i would still buy all my cd's. but i'm not, and i was buying on average about three cd's a week, i can't do it anymore. i'm still going to continue to buy cd's from my favorite bands, or if i hear something that is really exceptional, i will support it, but other than that ive just joined the downloading community and i'm not ashamed.

Stu42

Stealing is most definitely not just stealing. There is a huge huge difference between downloading and album and stealing from a local store. The fact is, that the record companies as they exist now need to die, they need to fail miserably and be rebuilt. I don't download at all, the only album I've every downloaded was Dark Night of the Soul, and thats because it's not getting an official release, but I don't buy albums because its a so-called "right" thing to do, but becasue I love having cds and records and having a physical product. Thats how I enjoy music, but really, the downloaders are the one who are in the right, even if they don't know it.

DewieCox

Stu42 wrote:

Stealing is most definitely not just stealing. There is a huge huge difference between downloading and album and stealing from a local store. The fact is, that the record companies as they exist now need to die, they need to fail miserably and be rebuilt. I don't download at all, the only album I've every downloaded was Dark Night of the Soul, and thats because it's not getting an official release, but I don't buy albums because its a so-called "right" thing to do, but becasue I love having cds and records and having a physical product. Thats how I enjoy music, but really, the downloaders are the one who are in the right, even if they don't know it.

:roll:

mookeywrench

Stu42 wrote:

Stealing is most definitely not just stealing. There is a huge huge difference between downloading and album and stealing from a local store. The fact is, that the record companies as they exist now need to die, they need to fail miserably and be rebuilt. I don't download at all, the only album I've every downloaded was Dark Night of the Soul, and thats because it's not getting an official release, but I don't buy albums because its a so-called "right" thing to do, but becasue I love having cds and records and having a physical product. Thats how I enjoy music, but really, the downloaders are the one who are in the right, even if they don't know it.

so you didn't go into detail about how stealing isn't just stealing

you didn't say what the huge huge difference was between stealing an album from a store and illegally downloading

you didn't explain why record companies need to die and how they failed miserably

and who all do you think is responsible for delivering those CD's and records that you love into your hands?