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what's wrong with some of our elected officials

WaveCameCrashinWaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
edited June 2009 in A Moving Train
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525838,00.html

IMO this is just wrong.
I just dont understand why these people would want to do this. :? :( :x
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • VINNY GOOMBAVINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,818
    What makes absolutely NO SENSE to me is that there are pictures of people being tortured.

    Seriously. The people running these prisons had to know that using torture or "enhanced interrogation techniques" that there was going to be a wee bit of controversy surrounding such practices. If you're going to do something illegal, why document it EVER? Or, if you're going to document it, why not just write down what was done? Or make a freakin' mental note. Taking pictures or video is going to end up in the same territory as Pam and Tommy Lee or any celebrity couple who decides to film a sex tape-- if it's juicy enough, someone's going to find a way to make it leak and try to profit off of it.

    I think there's concerns here that are not being addressed. From all of the controversy surrounding these photos, it sounds like these aren't pictures of 3 TURRRORRRISSTSS with a cloth over their faces, laying down and having water dumped on them. To use Billy O'REALLY?'s own words, they sound like they are "grisly" photographs. So, were the "interrogations" WORSE than 3 men being waterboarded?

    As for making them public, I don't know which is more damaging-- keeping them secret, or making them public. I believe there's a point when things are done wrong, it's time to take the high ground, make a full admission of wrongdoing, and move on. Will this anger more extremists over there? Who knows? We have full intent of occupying land over there for some time to come. The anger and the fighting isn't going to stop anytime soon. Maybe exposure of these photos would change a lot of minds on this piece of land about us being over there in the first place? Maybe this is a way to get people to wake up and stop the madness already.

    I doubt I can give Pelosi or Frank that much credit though. They're just like the rest of them. They don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves.
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    VINNY GOOMBA wrote:
    What makes absolutely NO SENSE to me is that there are pictures of people being tortured.

    Seriously. The people running these prisons had to know that using torture or "enhanced interrogation techniques" that there was going to be a wee bit of controversy surrounding such practices. If you're going to do something illegal, why document it EVER? Or, if you're going to document it, why not just write down what was done? Or make a freakin' mental note. Taking pictures or video is going to end up in the same territory as Pam and Tommy Lee or any celebrity couple who decides to film a sex tape-- if it's juicy enough, someone's going to find a way to make it leak and try to profit off of it.

    I think there's concerns here that are not being addressed. From all of the controversy surrounding these photos, it sounds like these aren't pictures of 3 TURRRORRRISSTSS with a cloth over their faces, laying down and having water dumped on them. To use Billy O'REALLY?'s own words, they sound like they are "grisly" photographs. So, were the "interrogations" WORSE than 3 men being waterboarded?

    As for making them public, I don't know which is more damaging-- keeping them secret, or making them public. I believe there's a point when things are done wrong, it's time to take the high ground, make a full admission of wrongdoing, and move on. Will this anger more extremists over there? Who knows? We have full intent of occupying land over there for some time to come. The anger and the fighting isn't going to stop anytime soon. Maybe exposure of these photos would change a lot of minds on this piece of land about us being over there in the first place? Maybe this is a way to get people to wake up and stop the madness already.

    I doubt I can give Pelosi or Frank that much credit though. They're just like the rest of them. They don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves.

    Like you said once interrogations were documented they had know that the possibility of these images getting out was there. I don't think it mattered to them and maybe on purpose they wanted them to get out just as a scare tactic as to say look if you attack this country this can happen to you as well.

    America living in fear and perpetuating fear.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    i would say that if the "right" were truly concerned about putting american soldiers lives at risk - that they simply stop pushing a war agenda ... it was the "right" that sent america into a tragic war in iraq that so many soldiers now realize was a sham ...
  • VINNY GOOMBAVINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,818
    polaris_x wrote:
    i would say that if the "right" were truly concerned about putting american soldiers lives at risk - that they simply stop pushing a war agenda ... it was the "right" that sent america into a tragic war in iraq that so many soldiers now realize was a sham ...
    Agreed. There were plenty of lefties that tried to act tough after 9/11 who are also responsible, too though.
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    VINNY GOOMBA wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    i would say that if the "right" were truly concerned about putting american soldiers lives at risk - that they simply stop pushing a war agenda ... it was the "right" that sent america into a tragic war in iraq that so many soldiers now realize was a sham ...
    Agreed. There were plenty of lefties that tried to act tough after 9/11 who are also responsible, too though.


    Just to follow the Leader and to get re-elected.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    VINNY GOOMBA wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    i would say that if the "right" were truly concerned about putting american soldiers lives at risk - that they simply stop pushing a war agenda ... it was the "right" that sent america into a tragic war in iraq that so many soldiers now realize was a sham ...
    Agreed. There were plenty of lefties that tried to act tough after 9/11 who are also responsible, too though.

    like? ... just because they have a D next to their name doesn't mean they are lefties ...
  • VINNY GOOMBAVINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,818
    polaris_x wrote:
    VINNY GOOMBA wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    i would say that if the "right" were truly concerned about putting american soldiers lives at risk - that they simply stop pushing a war agenda ... it was the "right" that sent america into a tragic war in iraq that so many soldiers now realize was a sham ...
    Agreed. There were plenty of lefties that tried to act tough after 9/11 who are also responsible, too though.

    like? ... just because they have a D next to their name doesn't mean they are lefties ...

    Definitely. Couldn't agree more. I should have used the quotes around "lefties" like you used around the "right." None of these people stand for what they claim to stand for anymore.
  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Our government is merely a reflection of the people. If we have an uncaring population who doesn't pay attention to what goes on in our nation or the world, we then allow for corrupt and an uncaring government as result towards the people. It's our system - garbage in, garbage out.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • VINNY GOOMBAVINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,818
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Our government is merely a reflection of the people. If we have an uncaring population who doesn't pay attention to what goes on in our nation or the world, we then allow for corrupt and an uncaring government as result towards the people. It's our system - garbage in, garbage out.

    Would you say that applies to every government everywhere?
  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Any group or beaucratic organization whether a government or similar is only as good as its members. If everyone is self-interested and only make efforts for their own well-being and similar, those are the results you will see. Generically, if a representative-democracy has involved and informed citizens, the results will reflect that.
    VINNY GOOMBA wrote:
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Our government is merely a reflection of the people. If we have an uncaring population who doesn't pay attention to what goes on in our nation or the world, we then allow for corrupt and an uncaring government as result towards the people. It's our system - garbage in, garbage out.

    Would you say that applies to every government everywhere?
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • VINNY GOOMBAVINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,818
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Any group or beaucratic organization whether a government or similar is only as good as its members. If everyone is self-interested and only make efforts for their own well-being and similar, those are the results you will see. Generically, if a representative-democracy has involved and informed citizens, the results will reflect that.
    VINNY GOOMBA wrote:
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Our government is merely a reflection of the people. If we have an uncaring population who doesn't pay attention to what goes on in our nation or the world, we then allow for corrupt and an uncaring government as result towards the people. It's our system - garbage in, garbage out.

    Would you say that applies to every government everywhere?

    I agree-- but what do you think of governments outside of representative democracies? Are military dictatorships in the third world a reflection of the people of those countries?
  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Well perhaps that's a grey area. You can't necessarily fault innocent people for the violent actions of others in order to take control, but with that said, at some point, it is the responsibility of those being suppressed to do everything possible (within reason and limits) to try and fix or help their own situation.
    VINNY GOOMBA wrote:
    I agree-- but what do you think of governments outside of representative democracies? Are military dictatorships in the third world a reflection of the people of those countries?
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Our government is merely a reflection of the people. If we have an uncaring population who doesn't pay attention to what goes on in our nation or the world, we then allow for corrupt and an uncaring government as result towards the people. It's our system - garbage in, garbage out.





    I think its the nature of their positions that make them into such assholes. power corrupts, in nearly every case. their own interests are pursued primarily-which is a natural instinct...its what human beings do, self preservation etc. but when people are placed into positions of authority, that instinct leads to all sorts of terrible things, torture, war, tyranny, etc...


    which has noth9ing to do with releasing torture photos or not, which they should do.



    If you're afraid of releasing information about your country, you know it has fucked up somewhere.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    out of sight ... out of mind ...
  • WaveCameCrashinWaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    Commy wrote:
    which has noth9ing to do with releasing torture photos or not, which they should do.
    so commy, your ok with releasing these photos even though It will put the troops in harms way?
  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    This is a bit of a loaded question because the troops are already in harms way. The underlaying issue is really that wrong doing shouldn't be taking place and if it does, justice needs to be serviced. If we don't rectify wrong-doing in the manner we'd want it handed to us, it's wrong. Can't have two sets of rules.
    prfctlefts wrote:
    Commy wrote:
    which has noth9ing to do with releasing torture photos or not, which they should do.
    so commy, your ok with releasing these photos even though It will put the troops in harms way?
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • WaveCameCrashinWaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    hows that a loaded question :roll: ? Of course there already in harms way, but if those pictures are released to AL jazeera, ect. it's only going to make things worse for the troops.

    why is that so hard to understand. I mean do you really think that it's going to do any good ?
  • keeponrockinkeeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    prfctlefts wrote:
    hows that a loaded question :roll: ? Of course there already in harms way, but if those pictures are released to AL jazeera, ect. it's only going to make things worse for the troops.

    why is that so hard to understand. I mean do you really think that it's going to do any good ?
    I believe the public should see what the US troops did in these prisons.

    Of course, if they didn't torture, this would not be an issue, would it?
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Because your assumption is that if they release photos of wrong-doing, it would make things worse on people already in harms way. But in reality, one of the main reasons people are distanced from wars, wrong-doings and similar is because of the lack of sight from media and similar. If people witnesses, viewed or saw for themselves the repercussions of any types of wrong-doing by us or others, we would lobby the government to not act in these types of ways. It's basically the way the Vietnam war went from being a quiet war to a societal divide and finally removing us from the war. People became aware.
    prfctlefts wrote:
    hows that a loaded question :roll: ? Of course there already in harms way, but if those pictures are released to AL jazeera, ect. it's only going to make things worse for the troops.

    why is that so hard to understand. I mean do you really think that it's going to do any good ?
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • WaveCameCrashinWaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    edited June 2009
    so its obvious... if there's more blood shed because of the photo's being released both of you are ok with that. People that are engaged don't need to see pictures to know that it's wrong and it shouldn't have happened. People that aren't engaged with what's going on could care less about it. Do you need to see pictures of every car accident so you know that you shouldn't speed or drive drunk.



    Don't you get it ? All it's going to do is inflame muslims and all the other people that hate americans. As soon as it comes out it will be made out to be that every american soldier tortures detainees and that were the bad guys.
    Post edited by WaveCameCrashin on
  • WaveCameCrashinWaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Because your assumption is that if they release photos of wrong-doing, it would make things worse on people already in harms way. But in reality, one of the main reasons people are distanced from wars, wrong-doings and similar is because of the lack of sight from media and similar. If people witnesses, viewed or saw for themselves the repercussions of any types of wrong-doing by us or others, we would lobby the government to not act in these types of ways. It's basically the way the Vietnam war went from being a quiet war to a societal divide and finally removing us from the war. People became aware.
    prfctlefts wrote:
    hows that a loaded question :roll: ? Of course there already in harms way, but if those pictures are released to AL jazeera, ect. it's only going to make things worse for the troops.

    why is that so hard to understand. I mean do you really think that it's going to do any good ?

    You still didnt answer my question.
  • keeponrockinkeeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    prfctlefts wrote:
    so its obvious... if there's more blood shed because of the photo's being released both of you are ok with that. People that are engaged don't need to see pictures to know that it's wrong and it shouldn't have happened. People that aren't engaged with what's going on could care less about it. Do you need to see pictures of every car accident so you know that you shouldn't speed or drive drunk.



    Don't you get it ? All it's going to do is inflame muslims and all the other people that hate americans. As soon as it comes out it will be made out to be that every american soldier tortures detainees and that were the bad guys.
    I know at my highschool, they show horrific things about that... Burned faces, bodies, etc... They DEFINITLEY use this approach. The terrorists are already inflamed...
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • WaveCameCrashinWaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    so why not piss them off some more huh ?? :roll: everyone saw pics from Abu grahib wasen't that enough
  • ajedigeckoajedigecko \m/deplorable af \m/ Posts: 2,430
    i wonder...........are the people who are concerned with the postings of these "pictures" on the front or ever been?
    live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Sorry I didn't give you a yes or no, I thought my response elluded to my thoughts.

    Any wrong-doing by any party should be acknowledged, accepted and corrected in whatever manner possible in order to rectify a situation. If that doesn't occur, people think there's different sets of rules of everyone and things like double-standards and hypocrisy begin to serfice. White-washing, ignoring, not taking responsibility and accountibility for problems, issues or wrong doing in life is a pretty low moral and philosophical standard to set for a person, group, government or similar. In sum, if we want a world where people are good, just and act properly, we need to set the standard of doing that in all ways necessary. Double standards and underminding our images with hypocritical policies or actions merely give justification for others to carry out wrong-doing themselves.
    prfctlefts wrote:
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Because your assumption is that if they release photos of wrong-doing, it would make things worse on people already in harms way. But in reality, one of the main reasons people are distanced from wars, wrong-doings and similar is because of the lack of sight from media and similar. If people witnesses, viewed or saw for themselves the repercussions of any types of wrong-doing by us or others, we would lobby the government to not act in these types of ways. It's basically the way the Vietnam war went from being a quiet war to a societal divide and finally removing us from the war. People became aware.
    prfctlefts wrote:
    hows that a loaded question :roll: ? Of course there already in harms way, but if those pictures are released to AL jazeera, ect. it's only going to make things worse for the troops.

    why is that so hard to understand. I mean do you really think that it's going to do any good ?

    You still didnt answer my question.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • WaveCameCrashinWaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    ajedigecko wrote:
    i wonder...........are the people who are concerned with the postings of these "pictures" on the front or ever been?

    good question.. But we all know the answer to that one. NO PROBABLEY NOT
  • WaveCameCrashinWaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    So I guess your answer is yes your ok with it if there is more blood shed if these pictures are released.
  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    I think we should take our troops out of harms way and bring them home, but I guess that's not a viable solution huh? Let's just complain instead that others will react to our wrong-doing and use that as an excuse to not accept responsibility and accountability instead. That's a pretty sad state of affairs if that's our nations reason for not release photos. If we want other nations and people (in this nation or others) to act just and right, perhaps we should do so ourselves, but I guess that's too much to ask huh? Let's just do as we please and then complain and react to others as if we're just in everything we do, say and think - oh wait, that's our national mantra - isn't it?
    prfctlefts wrote:
    So I guess your answer is yes your ok with it if there is more blood shed if these pictures are released.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Here's the thing that puzzles me...
    To those people who don't think waterboarding... or any other 'enhanced interrogation techniques' are torture... why DON'T you want these pictures made public? Wouldn't they prove YOUR PERCEPTION that there is nothing wrong going on here?
    ...
    Personally... I DON'T want these photos made public at this time because I believe the tactics are heinous in nature and not in line of what my America is supposed to stand for... justice, not vengence. I have already come to believe that we were fed a heavy dose of fear by the previous administration that lead some of us to believe that it is okay to drop everything we are supposed to be in order to be safe.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    prfctlefts wrote:
    Commy wrote:
    which has noth9ing to do with releasing torture photos or not, which they should do.
    so commy, your ok with releasing these photos even though It will put the troops in harms way?
    our troops have a great way to defend themselves in the countries they are occupying. they can get the fuck out. torture photos or no, they are already in harms way.
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