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Release Effort for LL & EL

Underground EarUnderground Ear Posts: 25
edited June 2009 in A Moving Train
I am one of the people involved in the grassroots movement to support and volunteer toward the efforts of getting LL and EL released. If you support the release of LL and EL and want to get involved or just stay informed on the current situation of their detainment I invite you join up with some or all of the groups through Facebook that we work collectively with. There is another group for discussing the issue of "is this a fair conviction in another thread http://forums.pearljam.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=100525
This thread is for discussing participation in the effort to release the journalists. Please email me with any questions you may have.

FB Group- I have taken down all links from the other groups aside from my own. If you have followed the story you'll understand.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=1 ... 670&ref=ts
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    great thread, I wish you the best. I will say however, posting here won't do you much good. for one, there are maybe 20 people who post here and maybe double that who lurk. not really a huge audience. secondly, there are probably a few here that like the fact Americans were taken. if you read close enough, you'll see how this is somehow America's fault.
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    jlew24asu wrote:
    great thread, I wish you the best. I will say however, posting here won't do you much good. for one, there are maybe 20 people who post here and maybe double that who lurk. not really a huge audience. secondly, there are probably a few here that like the fact Americans were taken. if you read close enough, you'll see how this is somehow America's fault.

    I wish the OP all the best on your quest to see these people returned safely to their families. I find it difficult that some here truly are happy these Americans were taken and imprisoned for a number of years. Even though I do believe they will NOT complete that ridiculous sentence.

    This is all about politricking on both sides.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • Underground EarUnderground Ear Posts: 25
    edited June 2009
    jlew24asu wrote:
    great thread, I wish you the best. I will say however, posting here won't do you much good. for one, there are maybe 20 people who post here and maybe double that who lurk. not really a huge audience. secondly, there are probably a few here that like the fact Americans were taken. if you read close enough, you'll see how this is somehow America's fault.

    I agree that this site may not be best for numbers of persons but being that there is intelligent discussion including actual opinions with thought put into them I chose to post this. There is a better chance of attracting members who are also involved in activism of this nature. I'm not an activist but, I stand up for things as often as I can where I see my input can make a difference.
    I wish the OP all the best on your quest to see these people returned safely to their families. I find it difficult that some here truly are happy these Americans were taken and imprisoned for a number of years. Even though I do believe they will NOT complete that ridiculous sentence.

    This is all about politricking on both sides.

    There are plenty of haters on the subject, but mostly people who steal time from their own lives to tell you they don't care. There is even a group that spawned from our support groups of those in favor. That's constructive hatred for you- it has no goal but to hate.

    If I've learned one thing in life it's that people will throw stones no matter what you're doing.

    Thank you both for your thoughts of wellness for LL & EL.
    Post edited by Underground Ear on
  • WaveCameCrashinWaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    I joined your cause on facebook. Like I said in another thread I really think this is some sort of pay back. I think Kim Jung Ill was not happy about that documentary her sister Lisa made. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Astra wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    great thread, I wish you the best. I will say however, posting here won't do you much good. for one, there are maybe 20 people who post here and maybe double that who lurk. not really a huge audience. secondly, there are probably a few here that like the fact Americans were taken. if you read close enough, you'll see how this is somehow America's fault.

    I agree that this site may not be best for numbers of persons but being that there is intelligent discussion including actual opinions with thought put into them I chose to post this. There is a better chance of attracting members who are also involved in activism of this nature. I'm not an activist but, I stand up for things as often as I can where I see my input can make a difference.
    I wish the OP all the best on your quest to see these people returned safely to their families. I find it difficult that some here truly are happy these Americans were taken and imprisoned for a number of years. Even though I do believe they will NOT complete that ridiculous sentence.

    This is all about politricking on both sides.

    There are plenty of haters on the subject, but mostly people who steal time from their own lives to tell you they don't care. There is even a group that spawned from our support groups of those in favor. That's constructive hatred for you- it has no goal but to hate.

    If I've learned one thing in life it's that people will throw stones no matter what you're doing.

    Thank you both for your thoughts of wellness for Laura and Euna.

    case in point. trust me Astra. your cause is noble but this isn't the place. the people that feel these women deserve to be kidnapped and tortured will out number or equal those like you and me. The US are the bad ones here. anything that happens to their citizens is justified.

    Byrnzie wrote:
    flywallyfly wrote:
    It's terrible that these women are being used for propaganda. Also messsed up that the U.S. has no ground to stand on anymore after we have grabbed men from all over the world, flown them to Gitmo, and held them for years with no trial.

    What goes around comes around.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    i'm not on facebook but i do hope they are released along with the thousands of journalists around the world who seek to bring us the truth ...

    i also hope your thread doesn't get derailed cuz someone feels the need to post absolute nonsense
  • NoKNoK Posts: 824
    polaris_x wrote:
    i'm not on facebook but i do hope they are released along with the thousands of journalists around the world who seek to bring us the truth ...

    i also hope your thread doesn't get derailed cuz someone feels the need to post absolute nonsense

    +1 :D
  • Underground EarUnderground Ear Posts: 25
    edited June 2009
    case in point. trust me Astra. your cause is noble but this isn't the place. the people that feel these women deserve to be kidnapped and tortured will out number or equal those like you and me. The US are the bad ones here. anything that happens to their citizens is justified.
    So being outnumbered by opposition is something new? Not so far as I've noticed. By the way you're talking I almost expect an ambush of poor grammar and screams from cavemen. Let them have their opinion- as long as it's based on facts then they have made their own informed choice and may oppose my lipstick color if they so choose. If their facts are wrong then their argument is baseless.

    Byrnzie wrote:

    flywallyfly wrote:It's terrible that these women are being used for propaganda. Also messed up that the U.S. has no ground to stand on anymore after we have grabbed men from all over the world, flown them to Gitmo, and held them for years with no trial.


    What goes around comes around.

    I'm a citizen standing up for other citizens- I am not responsible & neither is anyone else who did not partake in crimes committed by our countries government. These women are not accountable for the crimes committed by our country to other nations. They are citizens. They do not owe the world their torture, rape and ultimate neglect into death. No one deserves that- even those who have done it to others. Be the way you want the world to be.

    I am not debating karmic actions of the U.S. and other nations. My responsibility of action goes back no more than thirty years-to my birth and I'm a good kid.- (ok 28 years because I don't think 2 yr olds are capable of hatred until they're taught.) + I'm only second generation. All we can do in every situation to make things better is to make better choices than the ones made before us- that we often suffer from- and go forward. I've stood in much worse places than this and still had hope. Life isn't full of happy endings, people will take advantage of you if you let them and versus- but it's a choice how you act, react and think. Those chicken or the egg arguments are just ways for people to express frustration at their position.

    My only hope for those people who hold hatred in their hearts like this for others are given more compassion than they give.

    What if we really were accountable for the crimes committed by our elders in this country? What if you and your entire family were imprisoned for something your cousin did? Wouldn't that be f*cked?
    Post edited by Underground Ear on
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    jlew24asu wrote:
    great thread, I wish you the best. I will say however, posting here won't do you much good. for one, there are maybe 20 people who post here and maybe double that who lurk. not really a huge audience. secondly, there are probably a few here that like the fact Americans were taken. if you read close enough, you'll see how this is somehow America's fault.
    i can tell from this post you have no idea what most of us are trying to get across. you would have us believe the US is spreading freedom and democracy throughout the world, and only attacks when attacked, and that simply isn't true.



    i hope the 2 are released.
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    Commy wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    great thread, I wish you the best. I will say however, posting here won't do you much good. for one, there are maybe 20 people who post here and maybe double that who lurk. not really a huge audience. secondly, there are probably a few here that like the fact Americans were taken. if you read close enough, you'll see how this is somehow America's fault.
    i can tell from this post you have no idea what most of us are trying to get across. you would have us believe the US is spreading freedom and democracy throughout the world, and only attacks when attacked, and that simply isn't true.



    WORD!

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • Underground EarUnderground Ear Posts: 25
    edited June 2009
    Well friends it seems there may be yet another shit storm out there regarding all of this. Something I didn't really anticipate but is not entirely surprising. I'm posting here and here alone regarding this as it's a safer location for releasing the truth behind the situation. Some of the smaller groups are being harassed by the larger group that has all the journalists involved. One admin has received phone calls threatening their career and has processed legal documents in case the situation turns further for the worse. I myself have not received any such threats and/or contact from the persons being said to be instigating the harassment, but having met the person I cannot say it's a stretch of the imagination. I am however teamed up with both groups- previous to this harassment. All I can say is the larger group is demanding information be taken down and threatening the personal career of one of the admins. The larger group is the one in contact with the families and until this point I've been working with them as well. To me the goal is simple. Get these women released because they were kidnapped from Chinese territory and not in North Korean territory. All the other stuff is bullshit. If the larger group is going to threaten and harass the other groups for posting information that is not only related but also contributory to the element of LL & EL being detained then why should it not be posted? A journalist is trying to censor us through threats of defamation. The irony. The bullshit. They have my cell number and I have the ability to record calls. Seriously, what the hell? I'm not losing sight of the goal - why have they? I suppose the saying "no good deed goes unpunished" is all too often true.
    Post edited by Underground Ear on
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    this is bizarre ... are you saying that there are two groups vying for the release of these journalists and they are at odds with each other?
  • Underground EarUnderground Ear Posts: 25
    edited June 2009
    polaris_x wrote:
    this is bizarre ... are you saying that there are two groups vying for the release of these journalists and they are at odds with each other?

    Stupid as stupid gets isn't it?
    Post edited by Underground Ear on
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Astra wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    this is bizarre ... are you saying that there are two groups vying for the release of these journalists and they are at odds with each other?

    Stupid as stupid gets isn't it?

    well ... unless each side believes the other side is hampering the cause ...

    i do believe that there best chance of release is for this case to receive as little media attention as possible as long as "authorities" are working behind the scenes - the more press coverage this gets, the less the captors will want them released ... if this is a political state-sponsored "arrest" - then they will not want to lose "face" by releasing these journalists with massive media exposure ... if there is little to no media attention - they are more likely to want to release these women i believe ...
  • Underground EarUnderground Ear Posts: 25
    edited June 2009
    polaris_x wrote:
    Astra wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    this is bizarre ... are you saying that there are two groups vying for the release of these journalists and they are at odds with each other?

    Stupid as stupid gets isn't it?

    well ... unless each side believes the other side is hampering the cause ...

    i do believe that there best chance of release is for this case to receive as little media attention as possible as long as "authorities" are working behind the scenes - the more press coverage this gets, the less the captors will want them released ... if this is a political state-sponsored "arrest" - then they will not want to lose "face" by releasing these journalists with massive media exposure ... if there is little to no media attention - they are more likely to want to release these women i believe ...

    I agree to some point that if they truly believe that, however the lack of discussion on the topic is one of the things that has caused such an uproar. I'm just caught in the middle a little and refuse to ostracize those offering assistance. The content that was demanded to be yanked is not a secret and I don't feel hampers the cause any. It's been mentioned during the interviews from the families and there seems no basis for making threats against other cooperative members.
    Post edited by Underground Ear on
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Astra wrote:
    I agree to some point that if they truly believe that, however the lack of discussion on the topic is one of the things that has caused such an uproar. I'm just caught in the middle a little and refuse to ostracize those offering assistance. The content that was demanded to be yanked is not a secret and I don't feel hampers the cause any. It's been mentioned during the interviews from the families and there seems no basis for making threats against other cooperative members.

    well - i hope that the people involve put these two women's lives as their top priority ... there is a missing canadian independent journalist who was captured in one of the shantytowns in somalia ... rumours of her treatment are gut-wrenching ... i'm hoping our gov't can negotiate her release ... and hopefully, the same goes for these two ...
  • Underground EarUnderground Ear Posts: 25

    well - i hope that the people involve put these two women's lives as their top priority ... there is a missing canadian independent journalist who was captured in one of the shantytowns in somalia ... rumours of her treatment are gut-wrenching ... i'm hoping our gov't can negotiate her release ... and hopefully, the same goes for these two ...

    What is her name?--- oop found it- I think

    http://www2.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=1930bb9c-c690-4c99-863b-cce20a98ad8d
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Astra wrote:

    well - i hope that the people involve put these two women's lives as their top priority ... there is a missing canadian independent journalist who was captured in one of the shantytowns in somalia ... rumours of her treatment are gut-wrenching ... i'm hoping our gov't can negotiate her release ... and hopefully, the same goes for these two ...

    What is her name?--- oop found it- I think

    http://www2.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=1930bb9c-c690-4c99-863b-cce20a98ad8d

    yes ... that's her ... sad ... :(
  • Underground EarUnderground Ear Posts: 25
    polaris_x wrote:
    Astra wrote:

    well - i hope that the people involve put these two women's lives as their top priority ... there is a missing canadian independent journalist who was captured in one of the shantytowns in somalia ... rumours of her treatment are gut-wrenching ... i'm hoping our gov't can negotiate her release ... and hopefully, the same goes for these two ...

    What is her name?--- oop found it- I think

    http://www2.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=1930bb9c-c690-4c99-863b-cce20a98ad8d

    yes ... that's her ... sad ... :(

    This situation is really messed up. I'm surprised we didn't hear more about this one either. The facebook groups for this are pretty weak too- less than 7,000 members... I didn't see the accounts of what might be going on in her captivity but

    Just as soon as I went to look further into it I got word the people who are said to be harassing the others are now looking for yours truly. Dunno what to expect per se. I'm not a saint but the dirt on me isn't really that dirty.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Astra wrote:
    This situation is really messed up. I'm surprised we didn't hear more about this one either. The facebook groups for this are pretty weak too- less than 7,000 members... I didn't see the accounts of what might be going on in her captivity but

    Just as soon as I went to look further into it I got word the people who are said to be harassing the others are now looking for yours truly. Dunno what to expect per se. I'm not a saint but the dirt on me isn't really that dirty.

    wtf? ... this reads right out of a borne movie? ... who are these people?
  • Underground EarUnderground Ear Posts: 25
    polaris_x wrote:
    Astra wrote:
    This situation is really messed up. I'm surprised we didn't hear more about this one either. The facebook groups for this are pretty weak too- less than 7,000 members... I didn't see the accounts of what might be going on in her captivity but

    Just as soon as I went to look further into it I got word the people who are said to be harassing the others are now looking for yours truly. Dunno what to expect per se. I'm not a saint but the dirt on me isn't really that dirty.

    wtf? ... this reads right out of a borne movie? ... who are these people?


    This would be so much better if it were just a movie. (those are really good stories) Shit, maybe I should watch those movies again for some tips.

    I really dunno wtf yet. All I have is what I'm hearing thus far. Nothing has happened to or involving me directly at this point, so there is nothing, but the underground word and emails.

    What was reported today is that a young man (a child) called to demand more content be taken down and asked a bunch of questions as well as for my phone number- to which the admin states they did not give it out. (I advised the admin not to take calls anymore...) The admin seems to be giving into their demands but, as I stated I have not had contact at this point from someone demanding content be removed nor has the admin stated any particular material to be objectionable aside from one thing that was not posted on my group to begin with.

    I'm reluctant to post names because there are a lot of words and few facts that can be backed up. However- the persons stating to be harassing are journalists also associated with the efforts to have the ladies released. Fucked huh?

    Nothing we're posting is material we have written or that isn't geared toward the situation at hand. Nothing blasting the ladies or the groups- no defamation from our end or blasting even of NK- It appears they want assimilation of certain groups and to direct what is posted. (They should ask my mom how well I listen.)

    This could just be a bunch of shit stirring as well with no validity. Why people do crazy things like that I'll never know, but it too is a possibility.

    As a precaution I'm going to edit some of the previous posts to decrease the option of locating the posts via google search for their names here. I'm an excellent internet stalker of all I seek so I can cover some trails. I'll have to refer to the ladies as "ladies" and their initials. LL EL- Please understand I'm not stating that anyone is in danger per se- we don't know- so far the alleged threats are only of public defamation.
  • Underground EarUnderground Ear Posts: 25
    Contact initiated from the boy who made the second call.
    Nothing serious- just trying to add me as a friend on FB so they can get my personal contact info-which I'm not stupid enough to post on FB anyhow.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    am i the only one who finds this fascinating? what's with all the secrecy? ... why can't people be open and approach the various groups?? ... this is very bizarre ...

    has media attention on this matter dropped? and if so - intentionally?
  • Underground EarUnderground Ear Posts: 25
    NK is stating they have evidence that the ladies crossed over the boarder while taping the incident documenting with statements that they "illegally" entered. It is my thought that this is possibly one of the reasons that the larger groups seeks assimilation. It's possible they knew that (allegedly) the women entered illegally, and they do not want the average american temper to play a roll in stating they did not enter by intention. It's possible that this "evidence" is true or "faked up" as NK likes to say. How hard is it to take one or both of these ladies and make them re-record an account of what happened- I'm sure they're still nervous enough... It's also been stated (in the article below) that the NKS are watching our vigilance... Good.

    It's also been brought to my attention that "maybe someone (in the states) wants to keep the ladies there." Spending days with this circling in my head I have come to the notion that I'm not a conspiracy theorist but again- it's a possibility that someone wants them as pawns- maybe even an excuse to go to war- although I don't agree with this thought because I don't want to- since it is a real possibility I won't discard it from the list. Honestly, I cannot see our countries going to war over two journalists.- It would take the mentioned missile to Hawaii that would instigate that kind of fire I think. I think some people brush it off too quickly that people are nuts and sometimes will do whatever it takes to satisfy their individualistic needs. In this case- I dunno what NK thinks they will gain by taking out Hawaii- those poor bastards don't want to be part of the U.S. anyway...

    The fact is we won't know the truth unless someone is able to examine the evidence that Nk states they have. I don't think this is likely however stranger things have happened.

    As far as the groups go I've remained neutral-neither joining or excluding myself from where I was before. I monitor the statements very closely and the members because the tend to cross join. There are several people who have offered help that are part of the "unification" that I don't trust any further than the end of my nose. I'm doing all this part alone because I don't know if I can even trust the other admin anymore. Since they have rolled to all the demands of the harassers I cannot put forth 100% trust - because they "got to" them. There has been no contact to my knowledge since the incident mentioned where the boy tried to add me as a friend on FB. It's despicable that they would send a child to do their dirty work- but that just tells us all about them now doesn't it?

    *Looking back it appears the larger group is making stabs at the other admin publicly now- unless it's me, but then again I don't really copy anything from their page...
    "Oh and this is for you. . .
    You know who you are . . .
    I guess you will copy and paste this to your page as well.
    Link Deleted.
    You're sad."

    Amazing cowardice.
    BTW polaris_x - I am watching the Bourne Trilogy again thanks to you.

    There were 3 appearances by families of the ladies this morning. Here are the links:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5093542n&tag=contentMain;contentBody

    http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/31384402#31403501

    http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=7859575


    I had posted the link in another thread but will copy the whole post here:
    SEOUL, South Korea – One video recorder, six tapes, a digital camera and a stone: North Korea laid out its evidence against two American journalists sentenced to hard labor for entering the country illegally.
    The country's official news agency reported Tuesday that the journalists, Laura Ling and Euna Lee, documented their journey into communist North Korea, even pocketing a stone to commemorate the illicit trip across the frozen Tumen River from China.
    "We've just entered a North Korean courtyard without permission," the Korean translation of their videotape narration said, according to Korean Central News Agency.
    Ling, 32, and Lee, 36, who work for former Vice President Al Gore's California-based Current TV media group, were sentenced last Monday to 12 years of hard labor in a North Korean prison for illegal entry and "hostile acts."
    Before Tuesday's report, little was known publicly about the journalists' arrest March 17.
    The timing of its release — just hours before President Barack Obama met with South Korea's leader Lee Myung-bak and days after the U.N. Security Council issued new sanctions against North Korea for a May nuclear test — raised fears the women were being used as political pawns.
    North Korea wants to remind the U.S. that the women remain in Pyongyang's hands, said Kim Yong-hyun, a professor at Seoul's Dongguk University.
    "The North is sending a message ahead of the summit: 'Don't take your eyes off this. This is a negotiating card we have,'" Kim said.
    KCNA said it released the report to "let the world know crimes committed by Americans at a time when an unprecedented confrontation with the United States has been created on the Korean peninsula."
    "The accused admitted that what they did were criminal acts, prompted by the political motive to isolate and stifle the socialist system of the DPRK by faking up moving images aimed at falsifying its human rights performance and hurling slanders and calumnies at it," the agency said. The DPRK stands for the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
    A joint statement Tuesday by the familes of the two journalists said that "whatever those charges to which they have confessed, we are sorry and know they are as well."
    The statement said the families "desperately hope" that North Korea will show compassion and free the two women.
    Brent Marcus, a spokesman for Current TV, said the company had no comment on the developments. A spokesman for Gore also declined comment.
    KCNA warned Washington that North Korea was watching its next moves closely.
    "We are following with a high degree of vigilance the attitude of the U.S. which spawned the criminal act" against North Korea, the report said.
    North Korea and the U.S. fought on opposite sides of the 1950-53 Korean War. Decades later, the two Koreas technically remain at war. Washington and Pyongyang do not have diplomatic relations.
    Analysts say normalizing ties with the U.S., which keeps 28,500 troops in South Korea, is a key goal of North Korean leader Kim Jong Il, who is believed to be paving the way to tap his youngest son to be his successor.
    Lee Jung-hoon of Yonsei University said North Korea's main objective is to ensure the survival of the regime, and gaining an assurance that the U.S. won't attack is crucial.
    "North Korea's intention is to use these imprisoned American journalists as bargaining leverage in dealing with the United States," he said.
    Ling and Lee fell into North Korean hands at a time of rising concerns about the country's nuclear and missile programs. Weeks earlier, North Korea had announced its intention to send a satellite into space — a launch Washington called a cover for testing a long-range missile designed to strike the U.S.
    North Korea went ahead with the rocket launch in early April, and in an increasingly brazen show of defiance conducted a nuclear test on May 25. It then fired off a series of short-range missiles in the days before the journalists' trial.
    TV journalist Lisa Ling of National Geographic "Explorer," the jailed reporter's sister, has said the women had no intention of crossing into North Korea when they set out to do a story about North Korean defectors living in China. She has pleaded for their release on humanitarian grounds. There was no immediate response from the families Tuesday.
    The Committee to Protect Journalists criticized North Korea for a lack of transparency in the case and said the report did not mitigate concerns about the reporters' well being.
    Meanwhile, KCNA described in its print report what it called proof that the reporters sneaked into the country to carry out a "smear campaign," including their confessions, the video equipment and photos.
    The agency also accused the Current TV team of lying on Chinese visa applications, identifying themselves as computer specialists on vacation, KCNA said. North Korea rarely allows foreign journalists into the country.
    In this case, the agency reported, they walked over the frozen river and up the banks to Kangan-ri in North Korea's North Hamgyong Province at dawn, videotaping their arrival. Lee and Ling were arrested, while Current TV executive producer Mitch Koss and a Korean-Chinese guide fled, KCNA said.
    The women went on trial June 4 on charges of entering the country illegally and engaging in "hostile acts."
    The KCNA report said Lee, a Korean American, and Ling, a Chinese American, were allowed interpreters. Ling was represented by a defense lawyer but Lee — referred to by her Korean name, Lee Seung-un — voluntarily gave up the right to legal defense, it said.
    Last Monday, Lee and Ling were sentenced in Pyongyang's top court to 12 years of hard labor.
    "The criminals admitted and accepted the judgment," KCNA said.
    Associated Press writer Jae-soon Chang contributed to this report.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    do you have a few foreign passports and identities to go just in case?

    in all seriousness tho - where is this mitch guy? - i suppose he would know the truth ... in any case - it is not likely they will release these women without some compensation which seems to motivate this cash-strapped country ...
  • Underground EarUnderground Ear Posts: 25
    polaris_x wrote:
    do you have a few foreign passports and identities to go just in case?

    Not yet. You'd be surprised how easy it is tho. + a suitcase full of various currency would help. The self defense part I have down.
    polaris_x wrote:
    in all seriousness tho - where is this mitch guy? - i suppose he would know the truth ... in any case - it is not likely they will release these women without some compensation which seems to motivate this cash-strapped country ...

    I dunno where Mitch is at right now- he really needs to come out. If they did knowingly cross over the border then we as America have really no argument. Until this is a proven fact-which NK states they have then we can only keep going as we have. IF they illegally entered the country a political pardon will be the only option aside from the prison term.

    I will say that my stance would change if it's proven they entered illegally. Tis, not to say I will not support their release, but I will not fight for them as I have under the influence of injustice not matter how asinine I feel the laws are. If they knew the risks, and did it anyway- then what can we say? Again- until proof is provided I stand steady.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Underground Ear wrote:
    Not yet. You'd be surprised how easy it is tho. + a suitcase full of various currency would help. The self defense part I have down.

    ok ... now, i'm getting nervous ... with the name changes and all - do you know who i am and are you gonna show up at my door needing transportation? ... :)
    Underground Ear wrote:
    I dunno where Mitch is at right now- he really needs to come out. If they did knowingly cross over the border then we as America have really no argument. Until this is a proven fact-which NK states they have then we can only keep going as we have. IF they illegally entered the country a political pardon will be the only option aside from the prison term.

    I will say that my stance would change if it's proven they entered illegally. Tis, not to say I will not support their release, but I will not fight for them as I have under the influence of injustice not matter how asinine I feel the laws are. If they knew the risks, and did it anyway- then what can we say? Again- until proof is provided I stand steady.

    my gut tells me they entered illegally as most of these foreign journalists do what they can to get the scoop and i wouldn't be surprised if they did ...
  • Underground EarUnderground Ear Posts: 25
    ok ... now, i'm getting nervous ... with the name changes and all - do you know who i am and are you gonna show up at my door needing transportation? ... :)

    hahaha would you turn down 20K for a ride to Paris?
    my gut tells me they entered illegally as most of these foreign journalists do what they can to get the scoop and i wouldn't be surprised if they did ...

    I wouldn't be surprised if they did either and that is why I have not spoken in absolutes. Up until the reports from NK yesterday it has been said they did not enter by intention. However the families have stated during their televised interviews that "if" they crossed they also "apologize profusely."
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Underground Ear wrote:
    hahaha would you turn down 20K for a ride to Paris?

    well ... we'd have to hijack a sailboat which i do know how to sail to get across the ocean ... so, you might have to up that figure a bit ... 8-)
    Underground Ear wrote:
    I wouldn't be surprised if they did either and that is why I have not spoken in absolutes. Up until the reports from NK yesterday it has been said they did not enter by intention. However the families have stated during their televised interviews that "if" they crossed they also "apologize profusely."

    if they did - their only hope is either some kind of prisoner exchange or compensation i would think ...
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