Obama supporters
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Can someone answer these questions?
Why do you support him?
What will he change and how does he plan to do it?
Do you not care that his domestic policies are weak or is it just enough to get out of Iraq?
What if Bush was right about removing Hussein and making Iraq free? What if Iraq is the next Germany or Japan? Wouldn't that validate going there even though the reasons were lies?
As much as right now Iraq is a blunder there are policies of Obama's that would cost more. I'm curious why he will get your vote, and if it is only an anti-Bush anti-Clinton establishment vote say so.
Also before anyone chimes in I'm not voting for either Obama or McCain.
Why do you support him?
What will he change and how does he plan to do it?
Do you not care that his domestic policies are weak or is it just enough to get out of Iraq?
What if Bush was right about removing Hussein and making Iraq free? What if Iraq is the next Germany or Japan? Wouldn't that validate going there even though the reasons were lies?
As much as right now Iraq is a blunder there are policies of Obama's that would cost more. I'm curious why he will get your vote, and if it is only an anti-Bush anti-Clinton establishment vote say so.
Also before anyone chimes in I'm not voting for either Obama or McCain.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
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I generally like Obama as a person even though I disagree with him politically quite a bit... though I'll probably write in a canidate.
THat being said, as to the what if's I see it as no more dangerous than it was to invade in the first place. To invade with virtually no plan under false pretenses and be on the hook for all the war debt and reconstruction is certainly a lot more expensive than dialogue so personally I don't know how we would know that Obama's idea of a different foreign policy strategy of dialog and negociation will be any worse than the past courses of action. It could work better, It could go over like a led balloon we don't really know yet as it was with WMD's years ago. Iraq was obviously in poor shape, but in no way had the kind of power that Japan or Germany held at the time. The one I'm more worried about is Saudi Arabia but they are our alli at the moment.
In the end we tend to live in sort of an Oligarchy anyhow and it really dosen't matter much who the president is because outside of the surface differences... they still operate in the same system and with the same people it just changes who is heading up the committees and whose special interest groups get stroked at the end of the day. Even really weathy people have to have solid profound political connections or they stand no chance in an election race. Barack Obama is youngish, but he's still made those important connections in his short time in washinton and the DNC and found new ones with his excellent pubic speaking prowess and ability to convince people.
The only change is in name of party only. The idea that voting for Obama is a vote for change or somehow anti establishment is a fallacy even though the fact that he is the nominee and is the first of mixed race decent to attain that status I see as a big positive in that vein for the future.My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.0 -
Wouldn't that be the same as throwing someone in jail because we think one day they MIGHT be a murderer?unsung wrote:Can someone answer these questions?
What if Iraq is the next Germany or Japan? Wouldn't that validate going there even though the reasons were lies?
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Yesunsung wrote:Can someone answer these questions?
I support him for numerous reasons. I was fortunate enough to work with Senator Obama while he was in the Illinois Senate and running for U.S. Senate. He is truly the most genuine elected official I have ever come across, and I have been around quite a few. He doesn't BS you, he tells you straight up how it is going to be, and I respect him more than anyone else in public service.unsung wrote:Why do you support him?
While he was in no position to vote on the war in Iraq, he had the balls to stand up and say that we are taking our eye off the ball. In 2003, this opinion was not well received. We all remember the Dixie Chicks and our own Pearl Jam. Speaking out against the war was not a wise career decision, and Barack Obama stoof up for what he believed in and spoke out.
What will he change? The failed Bush policies for one. He will establish a responsible plan for a exit out of Iraq. He will eliminate the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. He will bring a real approach of bi-partisanship to the executive branch that hasn't been seen in 20+ years. He will invest in new sources of energy, and create green collar jobs. He will negotiate with our enemies. He will eliminate the "wild west" mentality of this administration who choose force over diplomacy.unsung wrote:What will he change and how does he plan to do it?
Sounds like a good start to me.unsung wrote:Do you not care that his domestic policies are weak or is it just enough to get out of Iraq?
How does one debate with an opinion? You find his domestic policies to be weak, but I don't think you could be further from the truth. Perhaps if you included why you thought they were weak, I could respond.unsung wrote:What if Bush was right about removing Hussein and making Iraq free? What if Iraq is the next Germany or Japan? Wouldn't that validate going there even though the reasons were lies?
If you really believe that Sadaam Hussein and his military that we steamrolled through in two weeks was the "next Germany or Japan", then I have a bridge to sell you. The fact is that we were lied into a war that has cost us 4,000+ brave men and women lives. There should never be a "what if" attached to something like that.unsung wrote:As much as right now Iraq is a blunder there are policies of Obama's that would cost more. I'm curious why he will get your vote, and if it is only an anti-Bush anti-Clinton establishment vote say so.
What policies of Obama's would cost us more than the war in Iraq? 4,000+ dead soldiers in a illegal war? $2 billion a week spent on that same war? Allowing the oil companies to draw up their own guidlines, while the American citizen pays $4/gallon for gas and oil companies rack in hundreds of dollars in profits.
It's not "anti-Bush" or "anti-Clinton", it's that this is a once in a generation candidate who has tapped into the imagination of this country. Of the last two Presidents, one has been impeached and drenched in scandal, and the other should have been impeached and has been drenched in scandal. What is wrong with wanting a candidate that instills something in you to believe in the highest office in the land? Is he the perfect candidate? No. Do I agree with everything he does? Not even close.0 -
MrMerkinball wrote:Wouldn't that be the same as throwing someone in jail because we think one day they MIGHT be a murderer?
...or a "terrorist"?0 -
unsung wrote:Can someone answer these questions?
Why do you support him?
What will he change and how does he plan to do it?
Do you not care that his domestic policies are weak or is it just enough to get out of Iraq?
What if Bush was right about removing Hussein and making Iraq free? What if Iraq is the next Germany or Japan? Wouldn't that validate going there even though the reasons were lies?
As much as right now Iraq is a blunder there are policies of Obama's that would cost more. I'm curious why he will get your vote, and if it is only an anti-Bush anti-Clinton establishment vote say so.
Also before anyone chimes in I'm not voting for either Obama or McCain.
What if, Bush actually had an ENDGAME for Iraq after eight years.
Is McCain Bush's ENDGAME for Iraq?
Is Blackwater the answer to U.S. troop withdrawal in Iraq as foreign corporations and foreign embassies build their sakes in Iraq? Maybe that's why they need military aircraft.
McCain doesn't have a domestic policy. After listening to him, I'm not sure he even understands the word domestic unless it associated with his housekeeper.
Now that the run for the nomination is over, I don't know about you, but I want to hear some substance in their talks. Give me some PRIORITIES. I want to hear HOW I plan and HOW I intend to try an accomplish these priorities from BOTH PARTIES.
No more bullshit distractions, no more 'reality' type MEDIA antics, no more nonsense.SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.0 -
unsung wrote:Nevermind, it is over your head.
I don't think it is over his head. Maybe you can add to the debate as to how Iraq is "free" now0 -
unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487ledvedderman wrote:
What will he change? The failed Bush policies for one. He will establish a responsible plan for a exit out of Iraq. He will eliminate the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. He will bring a real approach of bi-partisanship to the executive branch that hasn't been seen in 20+ years. He will invest in new sources of energy, and create green collar jobs. He will negotiate with our enemies. He will eliminate the "wild west" mentality of this administration who choose force over diplomacy.
Sounds like a good start to me.
How does one debate with an opinion? You find his domestic policies to be weak, but I don't think you could be further from the truth. Perhaps if you included why you thought they were weak, I could respond.
If you really believe that Sadaam Hussein and his military that we steamrolled through in two weeks was the "next Germany or Japan", then I have a bridge to sell you. The fact is that we were lied into a war that has cost us 4,000+ brave men and women lives. There should never be a "what if" attached to something like that.
What policies of Obama's would cost us more than the war in Iraq? 4,000+ dead soldiers in a illegal war? $2 billion a week spent on that same war? Allowing the oil companies to draw up their own guidlines, while the American citizen pays $4/gallon for gas and oil companies rack in hundreds of dollars in profits.
What do you think a responsible exit strategy is? To up and leave tomorrow would not be neither would being there for the next 100 years with our troops in the thousands. The fact is we are never going to leave and will always be there in some capacity. I don't agree with going there, I was for going into Afghanistan, but now that we are there we need to draw down without giving the place back to Al-Qaeda. I've always thought Saddam kept that place in line except for killing Kurds. He was a nut job but not the biggest threat.
Germany and Japan were obvious enemies when we defeated them. Now look at them, they are amongst our greatest allies, IF Iraq could finish in the same way where the people were no longer oppressed and did not have to live in fear would it not be worth it. One lost life is too many for our troops but reality is that millions were lost in WW2.
As far as domestic policies I don't agree with his decision to stop deportation raids on companies that knowingly hire illegal aliens. I don't like that he supports the DREAM Act. On his website he claims to want to remove the incentive for companies to hire illegal aliens yet he wants to stop the raids that arrest those that are doing so. It is a contradiction. He claims it is for keeping families together but they know they are breaking the law. They should not be rewarded for doing so. It is no different that if I rob a bank, should I not go to jail because I needed the money and I have kids? (neither is true it is an illustration) I don't like that he voted to give illegal aliens social security benefits. It is already a strained system for the citizens now he wants to pay out to people who are breaking our laws?
I don't like that he has been absent for so many votes as a Senator. His first obligation is to the people of Illinois, I voted for him myself, however he is ignoring that.
Part of me doesn't want him in because I'm tired of Illinois politics in general. I can't stand Chicago politics, look at how messed up that city is. He is Chicago politics, someone is pulling his strings. You told me it wasn't Durbin, is it Daley? Yuck.
I also don't like his stance on gun control. He claims he supports the DC handgun ban but also admits it is unconstitutional. How can he play both sides? Should kids and the mentally ill have guns? No. Should ex-cons? No. The problem is once the laws like that start they don't stop at just the bad guys. Plus people like King Dick Daley think that by banning handguns in their city that it will be free and clear of them. No it won't. The only people who don't have them are the law-abiding citizens, but the gang bangers have huge arsenals not matter what. in fact the city recently upped its' police force arsenal to combat this. I guess the gangs don't care about laws though, right?
I also don't care for the company he keeps, or kept. I don't like that he had a relationship with the racist Wright, even Oprah left that church over ten years ago because she didn't like the tone of his sermons. Why did it take Obama so long? I don't really buy into the excuse that he doesn't agree with everything that guy said, that guy spews hate. Oprah knew it.
Last but not least, and admittedly the most minor, I absolutely cannot stand Michelle. I don't believe she is worthy of being a first lady. I don't believe Hillary was either. Should it be a reason not to vote for him? Maybe, maybe not. I just wish she would shut her trap.0 -
unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487ledvedderman wrote:I don't think it is over his head. Maybe you can add to the debate as to how Iraq is "free" now
My point being it was free from a dictator like Hussein, and that 'hope' and 'change' could maybe do it some good.0 -
unsung wrote:Nevermind, it is over your head.
Give this documentary a look sometime. http://www.iraqinfragments.com/
Also the US has just now proposed new legislation that it can launch attacks to any other county in the world from inside Iraq now...what does Iraq get in return? .....Zip!. Iraq is the neocon's new bitch....sure smells like freedom to me :rolleyes:
http://www.gulfnews.com/region/Iraq/10218150.htmlProgress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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unsung wrote:Can someone answer these questions?
Why do you support him?
What will he change and how does he plan to do it?
Do you not care that his domestic policies are weak or is it just enough to get out of Iraq?
What if Bush was right about removing Hussein and making Iraq free? What if Iraq is the next Germany or Japan? Wouldn't that validate going there even though the reasons were lies?
As much as right now Iraq is a blunder there are policies of Obama's that would cost more. I'm curious why he will get your vote, and if it is only an anti-Bush anti-Clinton establishment vote say so.
Also before anyone chimes in I'm not voting for either Obama or McCain.
Maybe you should start here instead of asking ignorant questions from your high horse.
http://www.barackobama.com/index.php
read it.
I don't remember Bush having "plans" this clear and easy to understand when he was voted in.
Why would anyone have voted for him? Because his dad was a very bad President also?the Minions0 -
unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487Strangest Tribe wrote:Maybe you should start here instead of asking ignorant questions from your high horse.
http://www.barackobama.com/index.php
read it.
I don't remember Bush having "plans" this clear and easy to understand when he was voted in.
Why would anyone have voted for him? Because his dad was a very bad President also?
I'm not on any high horse. I wanted to know what made people want to vote for him. If you can't stay on topic beat it.0 -
unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:Give this documentary a look sometime. http://www.iraqinfragments.com/
Also the US has just now proposed new legislation that it can launch attacks to any other county in the world from inside Iraq now...what does Iraq get in return? .....Zip!. Iraq is the neocon's new bitch....sure smells like freedom to me :rolleyes:
http://www.gulfnews.com/region/Iraq/10218150.html
That is pretty interesting.
It said public opinion had changed toward the American troops. What events do you think make that happen? Abu Gharab? It had to be more. Was it because they were killing their own and picked us to blame?
I'd guess they probably don't know too much about the neocon agenda. I'm thinking they are tired of living in fear. I wonder how many would choose to go back to living under Hussein?0 -
unsung wrote:What do you think a responsible exit strategy is? To up and leave tomorrow would not be neither would being there for the next 100 years with our troops in the thousands.
If this is how you feel, then you are on the same page with Barack Obama.unsung wrote:I don't like that he has been absent for so many votes as a Senator. His first obligation is to the people of Illinois, I voted for him myself, however he is ignoring that.
That is part of running for President. He has missed votes. I don't like it, but I would rather have him as President than Hillary Clinton or John McCain so I'll give him a pass. Plus, I find it interesting to think who woul dbe appointed to his Senate seat if it were to become vacant. Lisa Madigan maybe?unsung wrote:Part of me doesn't want him in because I'm tired of Illinois politics in general. I can't stand Chicago politics, look at how messed up that city is. He is Chicago politics, someone is pulling his strings. You told me it wasn't Durbin, is it Daley? Yuck.
Obama is Chicago politics, yes---but easily a different kind of Chicago politics. Obama was easily one of the more bi-partisan senators in the Illinois Senate, so much in fact, that a Republican Senator even showed up in a TV spot (Kirk Dillard). He is his own man. Neither Durbin or Daley are pulling his strings.unsung wrote:I also don't care for the company he keeps, or kept. I don't like that he had a relationship with the racist Wright, even Oprah left that church over ten years ago because she didn't like the tone of his sermons. Why did it take Obama so long? I don't really buy into the excuse that he doesn't agree with everything that guy said, that guy spews hate. Oprah knew it.
Oprah didn't have a deep personal feeling towards the church itself. Obama found God at that church, he married his wife there, and his two children were baptized there. It's a personal connection that he shares with his family for the biggest events in his life. I'm not going to fault the guy for that.
How the fuck is Michelle "not worthy" to be first lady? She married the man who may be the next President. That pretty much sums up all the qualifications she needs to be worthy of being First Lady. Do you have a thing against strong minded women like Hillary and Michelle?unsung wrote:Last but not least, and admittedly the most minor, I absolutely cannot stand Michelle. I don't believe she is worthy of being a first lady. I don't believe Hillary was either. Should it be a reason not to vote for him? Maybe, maybe not. I just wish she would shut her trap.0 -
unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487ledvedderman wrote:Do you have a thing against strong minded women like Hillary and Michelle?
Not at all. I just don't like her. Are you going to talk about the other real issues or just that I don't like her and that we agree on Iraq?0 -
unsung wrote:I'm not on any high horse. I wanted to know what made people want to vote for him. If you can't stay on topic beat it.
You just want to bash Obama supporters.
that's the topic I see...
your angle of attack (supposedly straight from classic ignorance) is transparent.
did you hear your mommy say Obama's plan was weak? Is that the basis of your opinion?the Minions0 -
unsung wrote:Not at all. I just don't like her. Are you going to talk about the other real issues or just that I don't like her and that we agree on Iraq?
How can you not like her? You don't know anything about her. We would be lucky to have her as a first lady.0 -
unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487Strangest Tribe wrote:You just want to bash Obama supporters.
that's the topic I see...
your angle of attack (supposedly straight from classic ignorance) is transparent.
did you hear your mommy say Obama's plan was weak? Is that the basis of your opinion?
I have no desire to bash anyone. I want to know what the 'sell' is. Can you get that? I also go my info from his own website, my mommy just told me to check there.0 -
unsung wrote:That is pretty interesting.
It said public opinion had changed toward the American troops. What events do you think make that happen? Abu Gharab? It had to be more. Was it because they were killing their own and picked us to blame?
I'd guess they probably don't know too much about the neocon agenda. I'm thinking they are tired of living in fear. I wonder how many would choose to go back to living under Hussein?
Basically a lot of Iraqi's think it's all just a bogus/illegal/criminal war for oil now. Take the oil and go they say. Many would welcome back Saddam, as the living conditions are indescribable. As bad as Saddam may have been the situation is now far, far worse now. Depleted uranium illnesses popping up everywhere (and for thousands of millions of years to come). Nobody is safe, it's literally hell on earth for these people. They mostly claim "Saddam would never let it get this bad". It's shameful what happened there. There was no plan. One could actually argue with substantial evidence that the plan was to completely deconstruct the place into a shambles on purpose. That it certainly is.Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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