Eddie Vedder and "unnecessary war"

GetALife · December 2012

From here: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=200247

"Ed thanks the audience and says it has been a pleasure playing for them tonight. He goes on to talk about the “Wounded Warriors” project. He talks about the friends of his that are soldiers and says, “We can be anti-war but pro soldier. People try to turn it around and say it is unpatriotic. But it is clear that we are anti-unnecessary war and we want our soldiers to be taken care of and supported. He mentions all the soldiers that are wounded. He says that for every one soldier that is killed over seas another ten commit suicide."

Well, that is the thing I mostly disagree with when Ed talks politics. Talking about "unnecessary war" is saying that there is *necessary war*. That's my conclusion from his words. So, if this conclusion is right, I can say that being "anti-soldier" is a way of PEACE and being "pro soldier" is a way of promoting WAR. I mean, a soldier needs a reason to be a soldier right?* - I do not see any difference in WAR, when WAR is WAR because it is always WAR. "What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!" Does Eddie mean it? I start to doubt it. Defending this campaign against people who claim it is "unpatriotic" is something I do not understand. Because - and I already said it somewhere else in this forum (with different words, I know) - patriotism CAUSES WAR. - - - *There was a smart guy in german literature from last century, Kurt Tucholsky, who said this (not only under the impression of WW II): "Soldaten sind Mörder" - "Soldiers are murderers".

Cosmo · December 2012

A couple of things...
First off, I agree with your view, if there were no soldiers, there would be no war.
Unfortunately, we live in a world where greed is boundless and benefits from war. Since there are wars, we have to face the consequences of it. The main consequence, death and injury.
I understand the view that supports the soldier, but not the war. The soldier does not get to decide, the politicians make those decisions, based upon whatever their intentions. It is said that no one prays for peace more than the soldier who prepares for war.
Next, I don't think it is patriotism that causes war.... it is the misconception that militarism is patriotism. Politicians will use patriotism as justification for war, but so often, it in not rooted in patriotism and more likely a lust for power and resources to feed greed and selfishness.
Lastly... I wish there were no reason to fund organizations such as 'Wounded Warrior'. but, truth is, there is.

GetALife · December 2012

I have to correct myself. The article in which the sentence "soldiers are murderers" is from, was written in 1931. But it doesn't really matter at all. Because it's true anyway.

I mean, I am not blind. I know about people going to the army because they think they can feed their kids with the salary and promote themselves for a better future in college or for whatever. It's just human wanting to live a good life and do what you can to make it good with the opportunities you get. - But, let's be honest. This whole fucking thing called manhood and what it's worth and where it's heading to is based on the little decisions made by everyone every second of their lifes, over and over again. And deciding being a soldier is something I can not imagine coming from a sane mind and soul. And then I should feel sorry for their trauma? Well, apparently, the government gives a shit about their trauma. That is another problem, I see that. But on the other hand: You went to war for your country? Well, then deal with the consequences! A country is nothing that is worth to kill someone for. Don't tell me you believed that in the first place...please. ... "I am a patriot, and I love my country, because my country is all I know" - And everything you don't know you just blow away. Well done. Suicide is also an individual decision. It's not sadder than what they've probably done abroad in the wars they were engaging in. Maybe it's an equation they solved for themselves by subtracting their 'bodies of war' out of this world. But I am sure: (Self-)Forgiveness is better than a bullet. Everyone is making mistakes. Admitting is a start. But, Eddie, if you are reading this, please don't fool me with this term "(un)necessary war". No one will ever learn from history if we keep disguising the ugly truth with words like that.

Cosmo · December 2012

Sometimes... war IS necessary.
Like Viet Nam... from the perspective of the Vietnamese.
If a military force comes acrosss the ocean to your homeland and tries to impose their will upon you... you have two options... submit to thier will or fight.
From the French and American points of view... it was not necessary.

brianlux · December 2012

I totally get where your coming from, GetALife yet at the same time, as hypocritical as it sounds, I do support veterans but mostly because there are people close to me who lived through the horrors of war and so I get why the support is needed. It's important to remember that many young people make decisions that are not always the wisest. I know when I was 18 I made some bad stupid f'in decisions and I'm glad my folks and friends did not turn their back on me.

So there are two things I do not support at all:

One: WAR. In my opinion, modern war is wrong. The only kind of war that makes sense to me is some versions of American Indian inter-tribal wars where the object was to show bravery and count coup- whack the other guy with a stick and you win. Not my thing, but within the realm of what I would consider acceptable. Modern war is carried out by incinerating, shooting, torturing, maiming and brutalizing other humans- often innocent civilians as well as destroying culture and nature. Not acceptable.

Two: Enlistment in the service. I would never encourage a young person to enlist in the service. I would try very hard to discourage any young person I knew who wanted to do that.

Attaway77 · December 2012

"And deciding being a soldier is something I can not imagine coming from a sane mind and soul. And then I should feel sorry for their trauma? Well, apparently, the government gives a shit about their trauma. That is another problem, I see that. But on the other hand: You went to war for your country? Well, then deal with the consequences!"

What a shit thing to say.....

fear4freedom · December 2012

Well guys, it seems that Eddie is finally coming to the realization that there are necessary wars! To all of you responding here.....please tell me, which war before the Iraq war was not necessary? If you speak to Vietnamese people today, they think we saved them.

There was war before America....and there will be war after America!

War is ugly, although necessary...and it seems Eddie is finally catching on!

Seriously, almost every war that I have learned about was necessary. Do you all think that going to Afganistan after 9/11 was unnecessary? Cmon WOW

I can empathize with you if you believe Iraq was unnecessary, but If I empathize with you on that one, why cant you admit that we needed to go to Afganistan after 9/11?

You think Hitler didnt need taken out? How about our civil war?

There are many conflicts around the world, and there always will be. The best defense....is a deterrent!

If we were weak.....people would have brought armies here to attack us. FACT!

Also, a uniformed soldier in uniform fighting under the Geneva Conventions against another army, or organization that is deemed an enemy, is not a murderer. He is a soldier, fighting for the army and the causes of justice, freedom, liberty and liberation.

An example of tomorrow's soldiers actions being just and necessary would be North Korea attacked South Korea and they asked us, or wanted us to come help them. Another example is if China would attack Tiawon and wanted to take them over, and we defended them. Another example would be if Iran attacked Israel and they needed help! Many example of weak nations needing help from larger aggressors. Even Eddie now sees it! THERE IS HOPE!

Byrnzie · December 2012

fear4freedom wrote:

If you speak to Vietnamese people today, they think we saved them.

Like you've spoken to any Vietnamese people.

You devastated their country and killed 2 million people. Why would they thank you for that?

fear4freedom wrote:

Do you all think that going to Afganistan after 9/11 was unnecessary?

Yes, I do. You don't arrest criminals by dropping bombs on a country.

fear4freedom wrote:

Also, a uniformed soldier in uniform fighting under the Geneva Conventions against another army, or organization that is deemed an enemy, is not a murderer. He is a soldier, fighting for the army and the causes of justice, freedom, liberty and liberation.

So the U.S soldiers who massacred 24 unarmed civilians in Haditha (to give just one example) were 'fighting' for the causes of justice, freedom, liberty and liberation?

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/01/31/ ... -massacre/
On November 19, 2005, US Marines from Kilo Company, Third Battalion, First Marine Division killed 24 unarmed civilians in Haditha, Iraq, execution-style, in a three to five hour rampage. One victim was a 76-year-old amputee in a wheelchair holding a Koran. A mother and child bent over as if in prayer were also among the fallen. “I pretended that I was dead when my brother’s body fell on me and he was bleeding like a faucet,” said Safa Younis Salim, a 13-year-old girl who survived by faking her death. Other victims included six children ranging in age from 1 to 14. Citing doctors at Haditha’s hospital, The Washington Post reported, “Most of the shots … were fired at such close range that they went through the bodies of the family members and plowed into walls or the floor.”

Corduroy B-girl · December 2012

This is an extremely complex subject that cannot be oversimplified by saying pro-solider equals pro-war
and anti-soldier equals pacifism.

We live in a complex world, and it's this type of dichotomous/dualistic thinking that is the basis of war - whether it's between two people or two nations.

I cannot speak for other nations outside America, but in this county, I can say that a majority of soldiers come from working class and/or poverty stricken socioeconomic backgrounds and have very few, if any, other options. (And I'm not saying ALL soldiers come from poor backgrounds, but a majority do because we live in a classist world).

I am a pacifist and I love my friends and relatives who have served because I get that life is not that simple. They do not deserve to take their own lives. That's just a cold, mean thing to say, and says way more about you as a person than any viewpoint you're trying to get across.

hedonist · December 2012

GetALife wrote:

And deciding being a soldier is something I can not imagine coming from a sane mind and soul. And then I should feel sorry for their trauma? Well, apparently, the government gives a shit about their trauma. That is another problem, I see that. But on the other hand: You went to war for your country? Well, then deal with the consequences! A country is nothing that is worth to kill someone for. Don't tell me you believed that in the first place...please. ...

You present your views well, and though I can't speak for Mr. V, I have to say I find your comment about the decision to become a soldier being, in essence, an insane one...way off mark.

My father (and I know there were - still are though in different circumstances - many others) chose, as a young German immigrant, to serve in the US Army as most of his family was captured/killed during the Holocaust. His aim was far from nuts, and I'll say that his soul - even AFTER coming through that fuckedupness - was that of a fine and decent man.

And he dealt with the consequences...the trauma.

Some need help with that trauma - thank god for woundedwarriors and similar organizations.

Some people don't fight for a country, per se; they fight for people - people just like themselves. People who want peace and to live their lives IN peace, and free. Personally, I'm thankful for them.

Corduroy B-girl · December 2012

One after thought. This clip is from MIchael Ware, whose opinion I highly respect because he's repeatedly risked his life on the front lines of Afghanastan and the Mexican drug cartel wars in an effort to truly educate the world audience through media rather than present biased, sugar coated information.

He concludes that a successful outcome doesn't come from dropping more bombs; it comes from negotiations between the people in power. And Michael Ware had to retire early because of the effects of his own PTSD after all his years on the front lines. I respect this guy's opinion way more than anyone who has never served or seen war themselves (including me!).

http://youtu.be/KatO1aWMcto

fear4freedom · December 2012

Byrnzie wrote:

fear4freedom wrote:

If you speak to Vietnamese people today, they think we saved them.

Like you've spoken to any Vietnamese people.

You devastated their country and killed 2 million people. Why would they thank you for that?

fear4freedom wrote:

Do you all think that going to Afganistan after 9/11 was unnecessary?

Yes, I do. You don't arrest criminals by dropping bombs on a country.

fear4freedom wrote:

Also, a uniformed soldier in uniform fighting under the Geneva Conventions against another army, or organization that is deemed an enemy, is not a murderer. He is a soldier, fighting for the army and the causes of justice, freedom, liberty and liberation.

So the U.S soldiers who massacred 24 unarmed civilians in Haditha (to give just one example) were 'fighting' for the causes of justice, freedom, liberty and liberation?

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/01/31/ ... -massacre/
On November 19, 2005, US Marines from Kilo Company, Third Battalion, First Marine Division killed 24 unarmed civilians in Haditha, Iraq, execution-style, in a three to five hour rampage. One victim was a 76-year-old amputee in a wheelchair holding a Koran. A mother and child bent over as if in prayer were also among the fallen. “I pretended that I was dead when my brother’s body fell on me and he was bleeding like a faucet,” said Safa Younis Salim, a 13-year-old girl who survived by faking her death. Other victims included six children ranging in age from 1 to 14. Citing doctors at Haditha’s hospital, The Washington Post reported, “Most of the shots … were fired at such close range that they went through the bodies of the family members and plowed into walls or the floor.”

My ex is filipina and we talk about this all the time. The Phillippines loves our soldiers being around. Vietnamese would have succumbed to Communism and major torture under all scenarios and outcomes. You are obviously anti war, but you dont see any benefits from anything....you dont appreciate the freedoms you have? Cause believe it or not, the world is the way it is, because of war! And so far we are all doing pretty well!

Byrnzie · December 2012

fear4freedom wrote:

My ex is filipina and we talk about this all the time. The Phillippines loves our soldiers being around. Vietnamese would have succumbed to Communism and major torture under all scenarios and outcomes. You are obviously anti war, but you dont see any benefits from anything....you dont appreciate the freedoms you have? Cause believe it or not, the world is the way it is, because of war! And so far we are all doing pretty well!

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Philippines isn't the same as Vietnam. They're two completely different countries.
As for Vietnam 'succumbing to Communism', it did, so I fail to see your point.

fear4freedom wrote:

believe it or not, the world is the way it is, because of war! And so far we are all doing pretty well!

Both of the above statements contain the same amount of truth as the amount of vitamins in an order of 'Freedom Fries'.

supersonicyears · December 2012

GetALife wrote:

From here: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=200247

"Ed thanks the audience and says it has been a pleasure playing for them tonight. He goes on to talk about the “Wounded Warriors” project. He talks about the friends of his that are soldiers and says, “We can be anti-war but pro soldier. People try to turn it around and say it is unpatriotic. But it is clear that we are anti-unnecessary war and we want our soldiers to be taken care of and supported. He mentions all the soldiers that are wounded. He says that for every one soldier that is killed over seas another ten commit suicide."

Well, that is the thing I mostly disagree with when Ed talks politics. Talking about "unnecessary war" is saying that there is *necessary war*. That's my conclusion from his words. So, if this conclusion is right, I can say that being "anti-soldier" is a way of PEACE and being "pro soldier" is a way of promoting WAR. I mean, a soldier needs a reason to be a soldier right?* - I do not see any difference in WAR, when WAR is WAR because it is always WAR. "What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!" Does Eddie mean it? I start to doubt it. Defending this campaign against people who claim it is "unpatriotic" is something I do not understand. Because - and I already said it somewhere else in this forum (with different words, I know) - patriotism CAUSES WAR. - - - *There was a smart guy in german literature from last century, Kurt Tucholsky, who said this (not only under the impression of WW II): "Soldaten sind Mörder" - "Soldiers are murderers".

We need soldiers to protect our country. If we didn't have any soldiers, unfortunately, we would be taken over by some other country and you sir would be hiding in your basement peeing your pants while the men who would have become soldiers would be trying to defend our country. Soldiers don't want war, they want to protect us. Who would be assisting when something went wrong in this country? When there is a disaster etc.. We need to support our soldiers. They deserve much more than they get.

brianlux · December 2012

fear4freedom wrote:

Well guys, it seems that Eddie is finally coming to the realization that there are necessary wars! To all of you responding here.....please tell me, which war before the Iraq war was not necessary? If you speak to Vietnamese people today, they think we saved them.

Did he say that? (no) Congratulations- you are the last surviving person to believe the Vietnam war had merit. No, man, every vet I know (my peers) who were there will tell you that's a crock of shit.

fear4freedom wrote:

There was war before America....and there will be war after America!

There's a great rationale for war if I've ever heard one. :roll:

fear4freedom wrote:

War is ugly, although necessary...and it seems Eddie is finally catching on!

Ummm, aw, forget it. :roll:

fear4freedom wrote:

Seriously, almost every war that I have learned about was necessary. Do you all think that going to Afganistan after 9/11 was unnecessary? Cmon WOW

I couldn't disagree more. Most wars are resource wars, religious disputes or imperialist actions.

fear4freedom wrote:

I can empathize with you if you believe Iraq was unnecessary, but If I empathize with you on that one, why cant you admit that we needed to go to Afganistan after 9/11?

We're there for the resources.

fear4freedom wrote:

You think Hitler didnt need taken out? How about our civil war?

Hitler? What about the Rockefellers and the Fords?
The civil war was mostly about economics and resources.

fear4freedom wrote:

There are many conflicts around the world, and there always will be. The best defense....is a deterrent!

What, you mean bomb the shit out of anybody that doesn't follow our lead? If they're brown, black or yellow, bomb them twice for good measure?

fear4freedom wrote:

If we were weak.....people would have brought armies here to attack us. FACT!

Facts need to be backed up with citations. This is conjecture.

fear4freedom wrote:

Also, a uniformed soldier in uniform fighting under the Geneva Conventions against another army, or organization that is deemed an enemy, is not a murderer. He is a soldier, fighting for the army and the causes of justice, freedom, liberty and liberation.

That's what they all say. Us, them, all warring people.

fear4freedom wrote:

An example of tomorrow's soldiers actions being just and necessary would be North Korea attacked South Korea and they asked us, or wanted us to come help them. Another example is if China would attack Tiawon and wanted to take them over, and we defended them. Another example would be if Iran attacked Israel and they needed help! Many example of weak nations needing help from larger aggressors. Even Eddie now sees it! THERE IS HOPE!

Who made us world police?
Hope? More like hopeless.

GetALife · December 2012

I can only say that I do not want to choose between a "realistic" and an "idealistic" (some calle it "naive" in a bad sense) point of view towards this. "You may say I'm a dreamer...but I'm not the only one." If I don't hold on to the belief that "War is over if you want it...war is over NOW" what should I believe anyway? - Of course I wouldn't wanna be killed and see my friends killed if my country wasn't with military protection. But what kind of life is that? Living in "peace" or in peace? I am not thankful towards the german armed forces. Fuck them. They don't want to protect me. At least, I don't want them to. I reject any identification with a state, a country, a military protected body of land. "I am mine", nothing more, nothing less.

And to my cynical commentary that some of you find offensive - well, it was intended to be offensive. That's the asshole part in me when it comes to these discussions. Yes, it is hard for me to see the PERSON behind the uniform and the commands a soldier's living in. Part of this is my problem, yes. You can choose ANYONE for your hate projections, I know that. I don't wanna befriended with a soldier but I don't blame you when you care for your loved ones. It's easy to point your finger on people you don't know, I also know that. - Forgiveness is a thing that I have to learn too...towards myself and towards other people, even if they are strangers. - A little rollback, since I was kinda emotional writing my first post last night: IMO, GUILT (the feeling, the claiming of it) is the leading power in this world to make people do things they actually don't wanna do and/or mostly regret afterwards. I try to scratch the world "guilt" out of my personal dictionary. Replace it with "responsibility" and people can look into each other's eyes as people.

And, thank you to the replies to one certain post here. None of these wars that have been talked about are justifyable. "This land is your land"? - It doesn't belong to ANYBODY. Once you realized that, don't you dare to imperialize more of it elsewhere! And don't blame the historic examples that stand for communism to justify capitalistic imperialism. There is nothing good in it someone should be thankful for.

I'd rather die than justify "my" or "your" army because it "protects" my life. Sounds pathetic? I don't care.
At the borders of Europe refugees drown because european armies do such a good job in "protecting" my life. And "my" government justifies this policy like they are just a modern and more disguised 1984-like form of Nazis. This ideolody is still in power. And it is also because the countries that "freed" Germany in 1945 tolerate and support this policy.

Smellyman · December 2012

fear4freedom wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

fear4freedom wrote:

If you speak to Vietnamese people today, they think we saved them.

Like you've spoken to any Vietnamese people.

You devastated their country and killed 2 million people. Why would they thank you for that?

fear4freedom wrote:

Do you all think that going to Afganistan after 9/11 was unnecessary?

Yes, I do. You don't arrest criminals by dropping bombs on a country.

fear4freedom wrote:

Also, a uniformed soldier in uniform fighting under the Geneva Conventions against another army, or organization that is deemed an enemy, is not a murderer. He is a soldier, fighting for the army and the causes of justice, freedom, liberty and liberation.

So the U.S soldiers who massacred 24 unarmed civilians in Haditha (to give just one example) were 'fighting' for the causes of justice, freedom, liberty and liberation?

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/01/31/ ... -massacre/
On November 19, 2005, US Marines from Kilo Company, Third Battalion, First Marine Division killed 24 unarmed civilians in Haditha, Iraq, execution-style, in a three to five hour rampage. One victim was a 76-year-old amputee in a wheelchair holding a Koran. A mother and child bent over as if in prayer were also among the fallen. “I pretended that I was dead when my brother’s body fell on me and he was bleeding like a faucet,” said Safa Younis Salim, a 13-year-old girl who survived by faking her death. Other victims included six children ranging in age from 1 to 14. Citing doctors at Haditha’s hospital, The Washington Post reported, “Most of the shots … were fired at such close range that they went through the bodies of the family members and plowed into walls or the floor.”

My ex is filipina and we talk about this all the time. The Phillippines loves our soldiers being around. Vietnamese would have succumbed to Communism and major torture under all scenarios and outcomes. You are obviously anti war, but you dont see any benefits from anything....you dont appreciate the freedoms you have? Cause believe it or not, the world is the way it is, because of war! And so far we are all doing pretty well!

you realize the US lost the war right? If you visit Vietnam it is called the American War and has an American War crimes museum.

A great place to visit and an eye opener for those who need their eyes opened.

to the point of the thread. I understand joining the military for oppurtunity, but I would never sign up for anything that ordered me to kill other people or be killed.

Call me crazy......

fear4freedom · December 2012

brianlux wrote:

fear4freedom wrote:

Well guys, it seems that Eddie is finally coming to the realization that there are necessary wars! To all of you responding here.....please tell me, which war before the Iraq war was not necessary? If you speak to Vietnamese people today, they think we saved them.

Did he say that? (no) Congratulations- you are the last surviving person to believe the Vietnam war had merit. No, man, every vet I know (my peers) who were there will tell you that's a crock of shit.

fear4freedom wrote:

There was war before America....and there will be war after America!

There's a great rationale for war if I've ever heard one. :roll:

fear4freedom wrote:

War is ugly, although necessary...and it seems Eddie is finally catching on!

Ummm, aw, forget it. :roll:

fear4freedom wrote:

Seriously, almost every war that I have learned about was necessary. Do you all think that going to Afganistan after 9/11 was unnecessary? Cmon WOW

I couldn't disagree more. Most wars are resource wars, religious disputes or imperialist actions.

fear4freedom wrote:

I can empathize with you if you believe Iraq was unnecessary, but If I empathize with you on that one, why cant you admit that we needed to go to Afganistan after 9/11?

We're there for the resources.

fear4freedom wrote:

You think Hitler didnt need taken out? How about our civil war?

Hitler? What about the Rockefellers and the Fords?
The civil war was mostly about economics and resources.

fear4freedom wrote:

There are many conflicts around the world, and there always will be. The best defense....is a deterrent!

What, you mean bomb the shit out of anybody that doesn't follow our lead? If they're brown, black or yellow, bomb them twice for good measure?

fear4freedom wrote:

If we were weak.....people would have brought armies here to attack us. FACT!

Facts need to be backed up with citations. This is conjecture.

fear4freedom wrote:

Also, a uniformed soldier in uniform fighting under the Geneva Conventions against another army, or organization that is deemed an enemy, is not a murderer. He is a soldier, fighting for the army and the causes of justice, freedom, liberty and liberation.

That's what they all say. Us, them, all warring people.

fear4freedom wrote:

An example of tomorrow's soldiers actions being just and necessary would be North Korea attacked South Korea and they asked us, or wanted us to come help them. Another example is if China would attack Tiawon and wanted to take them over, and we defended them. Another example would be if Iran attacked Israel and they needed help! Many example of weak nations needing help from larger aggressors. Even Eddie now sees it! THERE IS HOPE!

Who made us world police?
Hope? More like hopeless.

You are telling me Hitler didnt need taken out? You are telling me that there is no evil. You are missing one major point, that there are evil men with armies who also need taken out. You didnt think to yourself on 9.12 that whoever did that needs taken out? North Korea hates South, what if they attack them? If you understand human nature well enough, as im sure you claim, you would also understand the need for war sometimes

riotgrl · December 2012

A couple of points....
First, my dad fought in Vietnam and I can attest to the fact that he came from extreme poverty and he has stated that he went ahead and chose to enlist but he did so because he knew he couldn't get out of it and he knew he would eventually be drafted anyway. I think there are a disproportionate number of men and women that enlist to escape a sentence of poverty. I won't go into the lies that some recruiters tell these kids to get them to join.

Second, My father has suffered immense trauma (PTSD and losing a limb) because of his involvement in Vietnam. Because of my dad's experiences, I have never been in favor of war even though he gets heated, even today, if I so much as mention that fighting that war was unnecessary. And looking at it from the perspective of the soldier, that is a crappy thing to say. My dad lost ALOT because of that war - how can he ever believe it was anything but a necessary war?? If he doesn't believe that then all he has experienced is worth nothing and that's a tough loss to take.

Third, there are extremely rare instances in which war is ever jusitified and if we are being honest, and we understand our history, then we can see that war is usually only used to gain resources or dominate a region or to "protect" our country. It would be an interesting discussion to examine the relative merits of the wars that the US has been involved in over the years. My study of history leads me to believe that most wars could have been avoided altogether if only we had undertaken certain actions to change the ultimate outcome.

riotgrl · December 2012

fear4freedom wrote:

brianlux wrote:

fear4freedom wrote:

Well guys, it seems that Eddie is finally coming to the realization that there are necessary wars! To all of you responding here.....please tell me, which war before the Iraq war was not necessary? If you speak to Vietnamese people today, they think we saved them.

Did he say that? (no) Congratulations- you are the last surviving person to believe the Vietnam war had merit. No, man, every vet I know (my peers) who were there will tell you that's a crock of shit.

fear4freedom wrote:

There was war before America....and there will be war after America!

There's a great rationale for war if I've ever heard one. :roll:

fear4freedom wrote:

War is ugly, although necessary...and it seems Eddie is finally catching on!

Ummm, aw, forget it. :roll:

fear4freedom wrote:

Seriously, almost every war that I have learned about was necessary. Do you all think that going to Afganistan after 9/11 was unnecessary? Cmon WOW

I couldn't disagree more. Most wars are resource wars, religious disputes or imperialist actions.

fear4freedom wrote:

I can empathize with you if you believe Iraq was unnecessary, but If I empathize with you on that one, why cant you admit that we needed to go to Afganistan after 9/11?

We're there for the resources.

fear4freedom wrote:

You think Hitler didnt need taken out? How about our civil war?

Hitler? What about the Rockefellers and the Fords?
The civil war was mostly about economics and resources.

fear4freedom wrote:

There are many conflicts around the world, and there always will be. The best defense....is a deterrent!

What, you mean bomb the shit out of anybody that doesn't follow our lead? If they're brown, black or yellow, bomb them twice for good measure?

fear4freedom wrote:

If we were weak.....people would have brought armies here to attack us. FACT!

Facts need to be backed up with citations. This is conjecture.

fear4freedom wrote:

Also, a uniformed soldier in uniform fighting under the Geneva Conventions against another army, or organization that is deemed an enemy, is not a murderer. He is a soldier, fighting for the army and the causes of justice, freedom, liberty and liberation.

That's what they all say. Us, them, all warring people.

fear4freedom wrote:

An example of tomorrow's soldiers actions being just and necessary would be North Korea attacked South Korea and they asked us, or wanted us to come help them. Another example is if China would attack Tiawon and wanted to take them over, and we defended them. Another example would be if Iran attacked Israel and they needed help! Many example of weak nations needing help from larger aggressors. Even Eddie now sees it! THERE IS HOPE!

Who made us world police?
Hope? More like hopeless.

You are telling me Hitler didnt need taken out? You are telling me that there is no evil. You are missing one major point, that there are evil men with armies who also need taken out. You didnt think to yourself on 9.12 that whoever did that needs taken out? North Korea hates South, what if they attack them? If you understand human nature well enough, as im sure you claim, you would also understand the need for war sometimes

Of course, Hitler needed to be taken out BUT examine the history and tell me why it was allowed to even get to that point? Stronger wills could have prevented that war and the Holocaust if aggressive action had been taken before it ended in all out war.

unsung · December 2012

I didn't see anyone mention the one thing that would keep us out of more wars. That is having Congress declare war according to the Constitution. If you made these people actually record a vote I think you'd see less of it, because they'd be the ones having to face their districts and explain why they want to keep sending our troops into conflicts. Sometime there is a good reason, so declare it, do your business, and get out. Enough of these 10+ year occupations where we no longer are there for the initial reason.

Oh and I hate John McCain. POS.

Eddie Vedder and "unnecessary war"

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Eddie Vedder and &quot;unnecessary war&quot;

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Eddie Vedder and "unnecessary war"