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My Two Cents about the Induction (Post RRHOF)

deweildeweil Posts: 245
in Given To Fly (live)
After watching the show on Periscope (Thanks!), I am even more committed to the idea that Jack and (especially) Dave should have been inducted.

We all love Matt Cameron. That's not up for dispute. We all love the almost 20 years of music he's helped bring to us.

However, as much as I love those albums, when it came time to choose 3 songs to represent what PJ is all about, they chose Alive, Given to Fly, and Better Man.
In other words, Krusen, Irons, Abbruzzese contributions.
I immediately started spitballing what songs from the Cameron era would have been appropriate...
Sirens? Nothing As It Seems? The Fixer? Life Wasted? Insignificance? (I wish!) None of them made as much sense as Ten-Vitalogy era songs (with the exception of DTE)
Alternates from that period? Jeremy, Once, Black, Even Flow, Porch...Daughter, Corduroy, Elderly Woman..., Rearviewmirror, Nothingman,
No Code, a personal fav, was a purposeful detour from MTV, radio, and mass appeal, and not surprisingly, none of the songs would have fit the occasion in my opinion. And my love for Yield extends to the horizon, but aside from GTF and DTE, I can't think of a song that would've fit the event.

I love the band, I enjoyed their speeches, but I think they dropped the ball on this one. Eddie's been such a friend to the organization over the years. I have no doubt they would have bent had he asked. Jack is already in for the Peppers (perhaps the reason he doesn't care about being inducted for PJ...and another example of band member snubbing/revisionist history). Matt is sure to get in for Soundgarden (as PJ said on Friday), and he deserves to be in there for PJ, but not instead of Dave. It's cool that Jeff had a bunch of uninducted bands on his shirt. I agree with most of them (Elliott Smith, another personal fav, has a few years until he's eligible). I just think Dave's name shouldn't have to be added to it.
He should already be in there.

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    joebotjoebot Posts: 372
    I agree with this entirely.
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    EdsonNascimentoEdsonNascimento Posts: 5,506
    edited April 2017
    This has been argued as naseum. This is like saying Pat Collins deserves to be in the baseball HoF bc he was the C on the 1926-28 Yankees which are considerd some of the best baseball teams in ML history. Yeah, you can't play baseball without a C, he had some impressive stats considering the position at the time, and they won 2 World Series with him playing one of the most important postitions on the field. However, Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig were there before he came, were still there after he left, and I'm prettty sure they would have won a couple World Series with or without him. He was designated starter bc another C got hurt. While that doesn't lessen his key contribution to the team at the time (I mean Waite Hoyt and Herb Pennock were great, HoF pitchers, but throwing the ball to the backstop every pitch would not have led to much team success), it does put it in perspective.

    (And btw, to extend the analogy, he was followed by Bill Dickey who was HoF worthy, winning 8 WS in his long career with the Yankees)
    Post edited by EdsonNascimento on
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
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    deweildeweil Posts: 245
    EdsonNascimento said:

    This has been argued as naseum. This is like saying Pat Collins deserves to be in the baseball HoF bc he was the C on the 1926-28 Yankees which are considerd some of the best baseball teams in ML history. Yeah, you can't play baseball without a C, he had some impressive stats considering the position at the time, and they won 2 World Series with him playing one of the most important postitions on the field. However, Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig were there before he came, were still there after he left, and I'm prettty sure they would have won a couple World Series with or without him. He was designated starter bc another C got hurt. While that doesn't lessen his key contribution to the team at the time (I mean Waite Hoyt and Herb Pennock were great, HoF pitchers, but throwing the ball to the backstop every pitch would not have led to much team success), it does put it in perspective.

    (And btw, to extend the analogy, he was followed by Bill Dickey who was HoF worthy, winning 8 WS in his long career with the Yankees)

    I don't know baseball like you, so I will stay clear of it.

    I get your point, though. However, the baseball HoF is for individual achievement and the RnRHoF is for both individual (Bob Dylan) and band (Beatles) achievement. The E Street Band it in a few years back (I was there...it was torture listening to that many speeches).
    Should they have been included when Bruce got in? Debatable, and I mean that in purest sense. I could argue either side.
    Should they ALL have been included? Sure. If it's 'the band,' then it's the band.
    Were they ALL integral to its success? Maybe...possibly...how could we ever know? Patti (Bruce's wife) is mediocre at singing, guitar, you name it...but without her, maybe Bruce would've moved on from them indefinitely and they'd all be at desk jobs, teaching private lessons, or part of other people's touring bands. So, in that way, she might be the VIP of the E Street Band.

    While I think your argument misses this point (about the differences between the two halls), if we accept it as true, then it's hard to argue for Matt, Dave Krusen, or any musician chosen to play drums in the band. Because as you said, Stone/Eddie/Jeff/Mike were there before they were there...after...and I'm sure they would've had made great music and played great tours with or without any particular drummer. Look at the Stones - they still haven't officially replaced Bill Wyman, although their long-term bassist has expressed interest at being a Stone.

    I also think it's easier to dismiss a drummer who doesn't write a lot or sing (unlike The Band, Eagles, etc). It's hard for those who don't play drums or play in bands to appreciate how important they are to a band (I'm basing this on interviews I've read with musicians). If he were a guitarist, singer, or songwriter in the band, I don't know if he still would have been excluded.

    I also think it's interesting to look at the RnRHoF within a larger context. When they do marginalize certain members, it certainly looks like the band did it (Chili Peppers got Josh in even though he hadn't played on any albums at that point and on none of the 'historic ones' but Dave Navarro got snubbed even though he was in the band longer and played on more hits...Fleetwood Mac had several middle period members, including main guitarist/songwriter erased from the record, in what looks like pure spite...Grateful Dead had EVERYONE inducted because they said it was either everyone or no one and Jann Werner backed down).

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