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So I was watching the news today..
LikeAnOcean
Posts: 7,718
I don't remember what channel, but this old white dude with glasses comes on and says "Lebenon is getting what the deserve" and then changes the topic to "how the war is good for our economy"... How fucked up is that! People dieing is good for the fucking economy.. well whip dee fucking-dooo!! Moo death, moo money!!! What the fuck is wrong with these people???
And then my best friend today says to me while we're out for beers tonight "War is good for the economy" as if it were a positive thing.. my best friend.... WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THE WORLD!!!!
I was once pretty conservative, but WTF?! Don't people usually become conservative the older they get? I'm going more liberal with each passing day.. heartless, selfish bastards!!!
And then my best friend today says to me while we're out for beers tonight "War is good for the economy" as if it were a positive thing.. my best friend.... WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THE WORLD!!!!
I was once pretty conservative, but WTF?! Don't people usually become conservative the older they get? I'm going more liberal with each passing day.. heartless, selfish bastards!!!
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that military/industrial complex is a pretty big web...daddy bush, ppl from his administration and reagan's, cheney, rummy...they make policy to beneift their friends, former companies, investors...then they retire and get a cut, too.
i really like fob robert's cover of this on the vfc tour
Let's Have a War
[Growling]
There's so many of us
There's so many of us
There's so many
There's so many of us
There's so many of us
There's so many [x2]
[Sung]
Let's have a war
So you can go and die!
Let's have a war!
We could all use the money!
Let's have a war!
We need the space!
Let's have a war!
Clean out this place!
It already started in the city!
Suburbia will be just as easy!
[Chorus]
Let's have a war!
Jack up the Dow Jones!
Let's have a war!
It can start in New Jersey!
Let's have a war!
Blame it on the middle-class!
Let's have a war!
We're like rats in a cage!
It already started in the city!
Suburbia will be just as easy!
[Chorus]
Let's have a war!
Sell the rights to the networks!
Let's have a war!
Let our wallets get fat like last time!
Let's have a war!
Give guns to the queers!
Let's have a war!
The enemy's within!
It already started in the city!
Suburbia will be just as easy!
[Chorus x2]
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Shame on the world for not stepping into a conflict where nearly all of the casualties are civilian.
-Dick Cheney
"Are you taking over or are you taking orders"
-Joe Strummer 1952-2002
"All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting."
-George Orwell
What kind of show were you watching? I can understand your sentiment, and agree it is a pretty sick mindset. But, if your watching a financial show, then they are doing to discuss finances. And war certainly has effects on finance.
And if it's causing death they should still denounce it. You don't praise the good of murder and talk about reaping the benefits from it...it makes me what to throw up. 'Oh yeah, I had my wife murdered to collect insurance money. What a great return on that investment!' *Gags*
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Hold up. I wasnt praising war by any means. But if you are watching a financial show (which, in my first post I posed as a ?, because I dont know what she was watching, but sounds like a financial show) then you are going to get finances. If it was a financial show, then I dont want a stock broker who knows nothing of the situation telling me about the situation. Im sorry, Im not saying war is good by any means, but because war is going on, doesnt mean the rest of the world stops. And if a show is bases around finances, then they are going to discuss finances.
I didn't mean you...I was referring to the people on the financial show. I don't care if the show is about making money, there still should be standards and ethics discussed about how you are making your money. 'How fortunate for us that all this murder is so lucrative.' Remember humanity, anyone?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
The average investor doesnt necessarily make money off war. Your notion is flawed. Im a 27 year old who makes middle class dollars, and Im sorry, but I dont have unlimited money, and things like gas prices, which this certainly effects, makes a difference to me. Financial shows on fox or cnn arent geared to billionaires, they are geared to average people. I dont go to wendys expecting a gourmet meal, and I dont watch financial shows expecting expertise war analysis. You can disagree with war, and still be concerned about your own well being. And like I said, I dont want a wall street broker having to discuss a situation he might know nothing about. I dont see how that benefits anyone.
If they are discussing it, it should be a denouncement. I'm talking about denouncing those who are profitting from war. Oh yeah, I forgot....murder for profit being bad is only an opinion....so they shouldn't say a fucking word...just report the millions it reaps.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I disagree. Like I said, this deal is going to affect people like me and you in an adverse way, more than it is going to make people rich. I agree with you if this was a regular news segment. If it was a financial show, then they should discuss finances. Money is important to your average citizen because most of us dont have unlimited money. And modern day war doesnt necessarily help the economic situation of you and me, thats a flat out myth. But it certainly does have the effect on the economy, and if I am purposely watching a financial show, then I want to know financial information.
again, if the money is being made by murder it should be denounced. would it be acceptable to talk about the profitability of child porn? of course fucking not! well, children dying and being maimed is WAY FUCKING WORSE!!. I know, I know...child porn is illegal, well so is murder and so should be war.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
It was probably Fox "News". They're all fucking war mongers on there. I notice however that most of the people stronly supporting such wars (O'Reilly, Hannity, John Gibson, Limbaugh) never served in a war when they were younger and had the opporitunity to go to 'nam and fight them godless commies. And whenever they have some "military strategist" = expert in killing lots a mutha fuckas, they tend to be some looney straight outta fucking "Full Metal Jacket". Plus Ollie North is a god on the network. Now that's a good "news" outlet.
"Therefore, as always, make of this voice what you choose to make of it. Make of me what you choose to make of me, but recognize within yourselves the vitality of your being. And look to no man or no idea or no woman or no dogma, but the vitality of your own being, and trust it. And that which offends your soul, turn away from, but trust yourself"
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
If it is a financial show then they should discuss finances. Im sorry, but the entire world doesnt revolve around war, and If my gas prices go up and effect me in an adverse way, for example, then I want to know that. I will agree with you the guy shouldnt have said lebanon deservered what they had coming, but discussing the economic ramifications is a relevant issue to any average person. Maybe you are extremely rich and money doesnt matter to you, I dont know, but it does to me and if I am watching a show that is going to let me know of the financial aspects of my life, then thats what I want them to discuss. Yes, the violence is certainly the most important aspect of war, I do not disagree with you on that by any means. But, it isnt the only aspect of war, especially when it deals with things like oil prices, which most certainly effect me in an adverse way.
Who is rationalizing anything? You are completely not getting my point. Whether you want to accept it or not, finances are important. If you want someone on a financial show, who works in the finance industry, to give you their opinion of war then you are a lot more trusting than I am. Id rather them talk about the field they are experts in, which is finances. You can discuss the financial aspects of war without praising war. Im sorry, but finances are a part of real life, whether you accept that or not.
So, you are ok with it as long as you reap the benefits? I could never be. Where do you draw the line? How would it feel if it were your family or even countrymen dying for another country's profit? I'm extremely not rich but I will never support an action that offends my soul for it has no price tag.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Just as you are completely dodging my point. You have yet to respond on my child porn analogy. I'm sure it the profits it creates are a part of real life.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Im sorry but you arent comprehending what I am saying at all, and I am saying it pretty clear. You are trying to pick a fight where one doesnt exist, and that is your failure in comprehension, not mine. I never praised this war for one, so, dont fucking act like I did. But if you dont like finances are important, you are clueless I am sorry. And if you think that the people who watch financial shows on fox or CNN are all billionaires, then yoru clueless again. It isnt my fault you dont live in the real world where finances dont matter, but I do live in the real world, and Im not rich, so finances do matter to me. I never said I supported anything. What in the hell dont you get, that you can discuss the financial ramifications, but not support the war? Ive read several of your posts on this board, and you are certainly an intelligent person, but you arent comprehending what my point what so ever, and I am not writing in hyrogliphics. You obviously dont agree with me, and think war should be discussed in every outlet, and thats fine. But dont fucking play this game where I am saying if it benefits me then it is ok. Thats your own comprehension problems you need to deal with, not mine, since I have made it perfectly clear that I dont agree with this war what so ever.
well it's obviously not killing 39,116-43,568 innocent civilians
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
What are you talking about???????? I never praised the war or child pornography. And you fail to realize that things like oil prices effect a shit load of people in adverse ways, so they might need to understand that. Im sorry, but you arent debating anything I am discussing. My whoe point was, a showed based around finances, should discuss finances. I havent stated once I suppor this war, and I havent stated I support child pornography. Pick your fights where they apply, because they certainly dont dont apply with me.
If this was in anyway related to me then you need comprehension lessons too since I have stated numerous times I dont support this war. Maybe you too should make up debates with each other to discuss since neither of you can obviously understand any type of opinions that differ from you.
Yeah, I know what you are saying...but war was the topic, to quote the original post "how the war is good for our economy"... I am not talking about the people who are watching the show. I'm talking about the people discussing the good investment in war. I think it's sick to not still denounce blood money. I know full well what you are saying but I, myself, couldn't talk about the good coming from the mass death of another.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Maybe I misread the original post, but I thought she said her friend said war was good for the economy, not the people discussing it. Modern day war is not good for the economy for your average people. Sure, the weapons makers and stock holders in those companies benefit. But me, and I assume you, arent invested in weapons companies, and therefore, it doesnt benefit me or you. And again, life is certainly more important than finances, but finances are a real life issue that most of us deal with on a daily basis. I see no problem discussing that within the context of war. It doesnt mean you are condoning the war necessarily, and even if one is, that still doesnt mean it isnt a relevant issue to those of us who dont condone war. Whether we are at war or peace, someone in middle or lower class america, or anywhere around the world, finances matter.
sorry, but i do get what you are saying and i think it's you who is having the comprehension problems as she has laid out what she is meaning and you keep failing to address certain questions.
my reply to you was not about whether or not you support the war. it's about you are saying it's ok to discuss the upside of the MASS DEATH OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS.
you are defending them discussing profiting off of this war, this is ok to you, b/c it's a financial show and someone has to profit. but glorify it? the question you are not answering is where do you draw the line that is right to discuss as a positive? should there be a report about a company making a good business move by kidnapping more kids for a child sex ring and dramatically increasing profits?
or how about "Mr Jones paid $2,500 for a hit man to kill his wife, but on a brighter note he claimed $50,000 in insurance money, an investment return of $45,000!!!!"?
it's all finances right?
how about a story about a father pimping out his 12 year old daughter? since she's a minor he gets to keep 100% of the profits?
don't you see to some ppl these crimes are on the same scale and simply inexcusable?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
If you have shown me once where I have condoned the death of civilians then please fill me in. If you havent seen my several posts about the downside of war, then let me in. Debate what I argue, thats fair, dont make up shit then apply it to me, thats your issue not mine.
And what the hell is this child pornography issue? Where in the helll have I condoned that, or where in the hell have I let you think that is an issue that should be brought up with me? I dont support the war, and I dont support child pornography, for the fucking 10th time. If supporting the war, or child pornography are issues you somehow think I support then yes, thats your own comprehension problems.
And if you read what I write I have clearly noted the downside of war ecomics because it has a negative effect on your average citizens. And if you dont think money is important, then you must live in a completely separate world than me. I dont understand a bit why you 2 are ganging up on me to this extent because I disagree with you about a news cast.
Once again, I was referring to the people on the show discussing the profit of war. The question to you was how ok are you with the profit of death being discussed on tv, I then brought up other analogies that equally offended me and you never replied. I see a big problem with it...you don't. I would see a problem with these same guys talking about the good investment in insurance fraud dealing with murder. I would be outraged just as I am now! I guess you can be quietly 'not condoning it' but I want to denounce such profits. Finances matter, life matters more....at least to me. I guess we will just see this diffrently no matter what.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Discussing ecomics is not necessarily discussing profits. I didnt see the show she is talking about, and she didnt give that much detail. But, discussing economics isnt necessarily discussing profits, as I have noted, if anything, this war has a negative ecomic aspect to my life.
And with what I just said. Where did I say I was ok with profit of death? And your other issue was child pornagrophy which I have also said I wasnt for, and I am almost offended you would even apply that discussion to me thinking I am going to defend it. Fuck that. You want to talk about child pornography, well here ya go, its sickening and gross. What more do you want me to say? Or how many more times you want me to say it?
And like Ive said, if you dont think finances matter then you dont live in reality. If they dont matter then dont work and live on no income and see what your quality of life is. Whether you agree with the system in place is one thing, but to deny that economics dont matter is completely dillusional.
first we are not ganging up on you, we are replying to you.
no one is saying you condone anything. you are having a problem confusing literal w/ analogy.
you are saying it's not a big deal they discussed profiting from war. they are talking about a horrible act and not denoucing it but rather discussing the benefits of it. THAT'S THE FUCKING PROBLEM WE HAVE W/ IT!!!
no one is saying you condone child porn or child prostitution. again, literal vs analogy. if you heard a report like the ones i used by means of analogy would you be offended? pretty much anyone would be outraged. well, to us it's the same damn thing! why not just say 'we killed 30,000-40,000+ innocent ppl, think of how much product was moved!!'
i guess you don't see it the same way we do, that's not a comprehension problem, it's differing opinions. not ganging up on you, but expressing our anger and opinions and you just say repeatedly we have comprehension issues. we know the profit exists, we know profit matters and is discussed in the real world, but the means of the profit are where we have drawn the line
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Your confusing discussing ecomics with profit. War can effect your financial situation in negative ways, and in fact, it effects your average person more in negative ways. Im not debating with you about the weapons makers or their investors that profit off war, and I think that is where we are off base. CNN or fox are based on ratings, and having financial shows that apply to a select few isnt a ratings gem. I promise that oil prices, going up, and even other cheap stocks, dont benefit from war. I think we got off base because you guys think I am discussing profit, when I am discussing finance in general, which most people dont benefit financially in war. But, finances certainly effect you and me.
And let me say this. I am not trying to be rude to either of you. But I dont think your comprehending what I am saying. Its late, Ive had a couple of drinks, maybe its my fault. But I keep getting these completely irrelevant annologies that dont apply to me what so ever, and I dont see what I have said what would make you think they do. But like I said, I am not trying to be rude, I can respect differences of opinion, just honestly dont see where your coming from in some instances with your anologies.
Again, we are not talking about the wars economic effect on you. We have a problem with war being a means of profit for whoever is profitting.
Of course, I know you don't condone child porn or prostitution or even murder...that was the reason for the analogy. I wanted to compare it to something you would take offense to so you would see the angle I'm looking at it from.
Where did I say finances don't matter? I think the means of profit do matter. Killing you might make me profit, that could be a reality. But people should be outraged if I discussed it so matter-of-factly and just mentioned all the money I made from your death.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Well we came into this thread discussing what was brought up by the original poster.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=3510666&postcount=1
They weren't discussing the bad financial instances of war but rather the good that can come from it. That is our problem and what we replied to this thread to address. So, I'm left to only conclude you didn't comprehend what we were talking about. I guess just a misunderstanding of where we were coming from?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde