customs again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!lets play two vinyl this time

KICK7071

PJDow said:

CK150886 said:

Awesome thanks.  Going to order from 10c if it only comes with it that way!

@PJDow like @demetrios said check with 10C first, I do believe these only came with the pre-orders.

Get_Right

drummerboy_73 said:

bootlegger10 said:

Take your problem up with your elected officials.  Ten Club doesn't make the laws and shouldn't be expected to ship in a manner to get around those laws. 

Exactly. I work in the shipping/logistics industry, and we have a customer for whom we ship a lot of small parcel packages to Canada and other countries outside of the U.S. At one time, they would "devalue" the cost of their goods to something along the lines of their production cost when reporting the customs values, in an effort to keep down the duties/taxes collected from their customer. The problem was that the customs departments would periodically do spot checks, and had a way to verify the retail price of what a recipient actually paid for the imported products, and if there was a disparity, they would flag the exporter (my customer), and had the potential to stop their sales into that country. The duties and taxes assessed by customs is 100% in the hands of the government of the country to which the product is being imported - has nothing to do with the exporter. The only control they have which could reduce your duties and taxes is to sell it you for a lower cost.

I am a customs attorney. Your summary is correct. It is silly that there are customs duties on small commercial shipments. In the US, shipments under $800 do not require an import declaration. That is why the US is pushing Canada to raise its minimum. Same in Europe.
These duties have a major impact on E-Commerce businesses.

Get_Right

dimitrispearljam said:

rw160510 said:

dimitrispearljam said:

its so obvious that uk members almoist always got caught with it..
ofcourse nothing to do with 10c,but british goverment.
rest europen countries is like 1 of 10 items pays customs..
in uk is 9 of 10 times

It's
 not really even the British government dimi to be honest. Royal mail was privatised a few years ago, as soon as that happened they realised that the admin fee (£8) they could charge to administer the duty was a revenue stream for them. It costs £8 regardless of the amount of duty owed to the government which on items from 10c is usually only a couple of quid. Royal mail has an effective monopoly on items imported through the postal system adit is impossible to circumvent them. We have no option to self clear in UK that I am aware of and so are stuck. I don't mind paying the duty due I just object to being charged for the privilege of doing it. God help us when we crash out of the EU in 18 months and sterling is worth even less than it is now.

customs has to do with goverment orders..royal mail dont do anything..in all countries,the packages arrive from abroad first goes to customs..they choose what needs to pay taxes  and wahts pass free.after they pass,local mail company..like royal in uk,like elta in greece like usps in usa,gets it with the stamp on,of how u need to pay for get it or its free..royal is the delivery part,nothing to do with charges like vat -taxes etc

Postal services and parcel delivery services are charged with administering the customs laws promulgated by the government. They do have a role in assessing and collecting duties - but you are right in that they dont set the rates or determine the rates applicable to a particular good.

Zod

100 Pacer said:

It seems, generally speaking, those who get frustrated by customs charges either don't understand the procedure for importing and/or don't understand it's not a "lottery". The rules are in place for a reason, and while every single package can't be assessed every single package can't be slipping through. 

People who ordered from the US frequently were correct.   It was a lottery.   In practice it was a lottery you had a 95% chance of winning.   The "rules" aren't as important as how they are enforced, and the "rules" were barely enforced.   Now that's changed and people change their spending habits to adjust for it. 

I do hope the US is successful in negotiating our exempt amount up.  I think $800 is too high, but $20 is too low.   You can't even import a limited edition vinyl (something not available in Canada) without getting dinged.    I imagine with more and more people getting hit with charges, it will make the lower amount more known, and put pressure on the government to increase it.

On the other hand if NAFA talks fall apart, then all bets are off if a trade war starts.

100 Pacer

Zod said:

100 Pacer said:

It seems, generally speaking, those who get frustrated by customs charges either don't understand the procedure for importing and/or don't understand it's not a "lottery". The rules are in place for a reason, and while every single package can't be assessed every single package can't be slipping through. 

People who ordered from the US frequently were correct.   It was a lottery.   In practice it was a lottery you had a 95% chance of winning.   The "rules" aren't as important as how they are enforced, and the "rules" were barely enforced.   Now that's changed and people change their spending habits to adjust for it. 

I do hope the US is successful in negotiating our exempt amount up.  I think $800 is too high, but $20 is too low.   You can't even import a limited edition vinyl (something not available in Canada) without getting dinged.    I imagine with more and more people getting hit with charges, it will make the lower amount more known, and put pressure on the government to increase it.

On the other hand if NAFA talks fall apart, then all bets are off if a trade war starts.

I've spoken with someone who works for CBSA. If you see it as a lottery then I can absolutely understand why you or anyone else would get upset every time you didn't "win." Rest assured the rules have always been enforced the same way. There simply weren't enough bodies to process all the pieces of mail, especially when things like serious contraband were higher up on the enforcement list than a low value item. Another factor to consider is the staggering amount of mail volume on any given day as well as the fluctuating levels of mail volume at the various airports. 

Most importantly: every single piece of mail CBSA encounters is verified for its' declared value. Literally every single one. What ends up happening though is the agent chooses, at his or her discretion, what's worth his or her time in terms of processing vs what's worth his or her time in terms of enforcement. With more agents coming on line and being told to enforce more strictly it becomes a balancing act of the agent being able to properly enforce vs being able to properly screen. At the end of the day they're more concerned about contraband than another $20 in customs on the front lines. 

Zod

100 Pacer said:

Most importantly: every single piece of mail CBSA encounters is verified for its' declared value. Literally every single one. What ends up happening though is the agent chooses, at his or her discretion, what's worth his or her time in terms of processing vs what's worth his or her time in terms of enforcement. With more agents coming on line and being told to enforce more strictly it becomes a balancing act of the agent being able to properly enforce vs being able to properly screen. At the end of the day they're more concerned about contraband than another $20 in customs on the front lines. 

It's pretty obvious that they have increased enforcement and focus on it.  I've had more packages assessed in the past 3 weeks than the past 15 years all together (sub $100 packages).  It's definitely a change in customs behavior.   There was a long stretch where they focused on the bigger ones, but now it's all getting focus.  All 4 of my packages were assessed at $35 or under (with the smallest being matt cameron's solo album vinyl, at $24.55 cdn).    If you've got people assessing packages $4 over the limit, to charge $2.55 in tax..... it's pretty obvious enforcement's been beefed up.

I think we're both pretty much arguing the same thing except I think you underestimate how lax it was until the new hires you mentioned came online.

FR181798

dimitrispearljam said:

rw160510 said:

dimitrispearljam said:

its so obvious that uk members almoist always got caught with it..
ofcourse nothing to do with 10c,but british goverment.
rest europen countries is like 1 of 10 items pays customs..
in uk is 9 of 10 times

It's
 not really even the British government dimi to be honest. Royal mail was privatised a few years ago, as soon as that happened they realised that the admin fee (£8) they could charge to administer the duty was a revenue stream for them. It costs £8 regardless of the amount of duty owed to the government which on items from 10c is usually only a couple of quid. Royal mail has an effective monopoly on items imported through the postal system adit is impossible to circumvent them. We have no option to self clear in UK that I am aware of and so are stuck. I don't mind paying the duty due I just object to being charged for the privilege of doing it. God help us when we crash out of the EU in 18 months and sterling is worth even less than it is now.

customs has to do with goverment orders..royal mail dont do anything..in all countries,the packages arrive from abroad first goes to customs..they choose what needs to pay taxes  and wahts pass free.after they pass,local mail company..like royal in uk,like elta in greece like usps in usa,gets it with the stamp on,of how u need to pay for get it or its free..royal is the delivery part,nothing to do with charges like vat -taxes etc

I don't mind paying the customs duty, it's the extra £8 I get charged which annoys me. If you order from Amazon.com you pay the duty in advance and don't have to pay anything extra but no where else does that. Recently I bought something for $19.99 (£15.10) I got $3 discount but that wasn't mentioned on the customs form. So it was 10p over the limit and I got charged £11, pretty terrible. 

drummerboy_73

Get_Right said:

drummerboy_73 said:

bootlegger10 said:

Take your problem up with your elected officials.  Ten Club doesn't make the laws and shouldn't be expected to ship in a manner to get around those laws. 

Exactly. I work in the shipping/logistics industry, and we have a customer for whom we ship a lot of small parcel packages to Canada and other countries outside of the U.S. At one time, they would "devalue" the cost of their goods to something along the lines of their production cost when reporting the customs values, in an effort to keep down the duties/taxes collected from their customer. The problem was that the customs departments would periodically do spot checks, and had a way to verify the retail price of what a recipient actually paid for the imported products, and if there was a disparity, they would flag the exporter (my customer), and had the potential to stop their sales into that country. The duties and taxes assessed by customs is 100% in the hands of the government of the country to which the product is being imported - has nothing to do with the exporter. The only control they have which could reduce your duties and taxes is to sell it you for a lower cost.

I am a customs attorney. Your summary is correct. It is silly that there are customs duties on small commercial shipments. In the US, shipments under $800 do not require an import declaration. That is why the US is pushing Canada to raise its minimum. Same in Europe.
These duties have a major impact on E-Commerce businesses.

Yup - very cost prohibitive to U.S. exports on smaller value shipments, especially when other countries (China, Taiwan, Indonesia, etc.) can export their cheaply made goods into the U.S. so easily.

Zod

FR181798 said:

dimitrispearljam said:

rw160510 said:

dimitrispearljam said:

its so obvious that uk members almoist always got caught with it..
ofcourse nothing to do with 10c,but british goverment.
rest europen countries is like 1 of 10 items pays customs..
in uk is 9 of 10 times

It's
 not really even the British government dimi to be honest. Royal mail was privatised a few years ago, as soon as that happened they realised that the admin fee (£8) they could charge to administer the duty was a revenue stream for them. It costs £8 regardless of the amount of duty owed to the government which on items from 10c is usually only a couple of quid. Royal mail has an effective monopoly on items imported through the postal system adit is impossible to circumvent them. We have no option to self clear in UK that I am aware of and so are stuck. I don't mind paying the duty due I just object to being charged for the privilege of doing it. God help us when we crash out of the EU in 18 months and sterling is worth even less than it is now.

customs has to do with goverment orders..royal mail dont do anything..in all countries,the packages arrive from abroad first goes to customs..they choose what needs to pay taxes  and wahts pass free.after they pass,local mail company..like royal in uk,like elta in greece like usps in usa,gets it with the stamp on,of how u need to pay for get it or its free..royal is the delivery part,nothing to do with charges like vat -taxes etc

I don't mind paying the customs duty, it's the extra £8 I get charged which annoys me. If you order from Amazon.com you pay the duty in advance and don't have to pay anything extra but no where else does that. Recently I bought something for $19.99 (£15.10) I got $3 discount but that wasn't mentioned on the customs form. So it was 10p over the limit and I got charged £11, pretty terrible. 

It's kind of funny.. I hated how amazon/ebay pre-collected the taxes/duties.   Mostly because Canada Customs was turning a blind eye.  Now that they aren't, buying from those retailers is a bit more attractive.

Bigrfish

Edmonton said:

Pre-ordered Let's-Play-Two vinyl from amazon.ca as soon as they listed, so locked in price of 36 bucks (cdn).  Arrived as soon as released with no issues.  And 'cause it was >$35, shipping was free.  In Canada, that seems to be the way to go - though my local record store (Blackbyrd on Whyte) had it on release date as well for (I think) 40 bucks so I should have waited and spend the extra bucks to support local....will do that next time.

Smart.. I missed by a day.. Managed to find it on the cheap thru Amazon France tho. What are your thoughts on sound quality, pressing etc. I've seen some not so favorable reviews on both US and EU pressings so far. Just interested in your opinion if you don't mind sharing. 
Edmontonian as well.  Thx