Just wanna point out again, that MANY fans in the facebook group said "FAKE NEWS" (or DAVE A'S ACCOUNT IS HACKED BECAUSE RUSSIANS DO THAT ALL THE TIME) when I happend upong Dave A's comment on youtube under a video and posted the comment in the facebook group.
Scary stuff. Surprising how Trumps fake news-bullshit has even made some tenclubbers into zombies. The end is near etc.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,427
Just wanna point out again, that MANY fans in the facebook group said "FAKE NEWS" (or DAVE A'S ACCOUNT IS HACKED BECAUSE RUSSIANS DO THAT ALL THE TIME) when I happend upong Dave A's comment on youtube under a video and posted the comment in the facebook group.
Scary stuff. Surprising how Trumps fake news-bullshit has even made some tenclubbers into zombies. The end is near etc.
You seem to have a lot of hostility about this.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
Just wanna point out again, that MANY fans in the facebook group said "FAKE NEWS" (or DAVE A'S ACCOUNT IS HACKED BECAUSE RUSSIANS DO THAT ALL THE TIME) when I happend upong Dave A's comment on youtube under a video and posted the comment in the facebook group.
Scary stuff. Surprising how Trumps fake news-bullshit has even made some tenclubbers into zombies. The end is near etc.
This has nothing to do with Trump and everything to do with someone spelling their own name wrong. You really are making something out of nothing here.
Just wanna point out again, that MANY fans in the facebook group said "FAKE NEWS" (or DAVE A'S ACCOUNT IS HACKED BECAUSE RUSSIANS DO THAT ALL THE TIME) when I happend upong Dave A's comment on youtube under a video and posted the comment in the facebook group.
Scary stuff. Surprising how Trumps fake news-bullshit has even made some tenclubbers into zombies. The end is near etc.
This has nothing to do with Trump and everything to do with someone spelling their own name wrong. You really are making something out of nothing here.
Ah ok. Then it's even more dumb. (He left out a "z" when Im guessing writing something out fast and lose).
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Just wanna point out again, that MANY fans in the facebook group said "FAKE NEWS" (or DAVE A'S ACCOUNT IS HACKED BECAUSE RUSSIANS DO THAT ALL THE TIME) when I happend upong Dave A's comment on youtube under a video and posted the comment in the facebook group.
Scary stuff. Surprising how Trumps fake news-bullshit has even made some tenclubbers into zombies. The end is near etc.
This has nothing to do with Trump and everything to do with someone spelling their own name wrong. You really are making something out of nothing here.
Ah ok. Maybe. Then it's even more dumb.
To each his own but do you really think that pointing out that someone's name was spelt wrong leading some to believe that it was not Dave writing it is dumb? When was the last time you spelt your name wrong when making an official statement? This day and age with all the fake accounts I think it is fair to be skeptical of anything we read on the internet unfortunately.
Matt Chamberlain politely declined the invitation. Jack Irons graciously accepted the invitation. Dave...behaved like this.
I'm not defending Dave A or really care (more than that it would have be cool to hear his drumming again) but this is just skewing things to paint him in a bad light.
What he is saying - his point of view - is that there was no direct/personal invitation. Just the letter – As in, an empty gesture.
And even though I understand why the band would not want him there, I also understand what he means by that. If they really wanted him there and meant something with the letter - they could and should have called him or reached out to him.
Just put yourself in the situation, is it really an invitation if its up to him to reach out for a party with people he haven't met in 20 years and that he's not included in to begin with?
And Jeffs t-shirt points to the letter meaning nothing (or just hypocrisy), with him not having Dave A on the shirt but Chad Channing.
I think writing that kind of a letter, but not even trying to reach out directly makes it hollow and a bit slimey.
But, I don't care. I just think all the shitting on Dave (without taking in his point of view or what he's actually saying) is ignorant and unnecessary.
But ofc I understand why the band would not want him there. But then don't act all noble with that letter. If there's no truth behind the words.
EDIT:
And this was a youtube comment from him that blew up. He just wanted to put "it straight" from his POV on a comment under a youtube video (why he was lurking youtube looking for videos of the evening is a bit sad... or maybe cute(?) and I don't really think what's so bad about his comment, other than the wording of it. Not like he's shitting on the band(?)... for once.
I'm not skewing anything and I'm not the one painting Dave in a bad light. He has done that all by himself.
The band doesn't decide who gets inducted. The band put out a statement welcoming all drummers to attend. Jack Irons took them up on it. Matt Chamberlain did not. Dave used it as an opportunity to vent 20+ year old anger, and in doing so said some crazy things. He owns that, so don't blame others for somehow painting him in a negative light.
Just wanna point out again, that MANY fans in the facebook group said "FAKE NEWS" (or DAVE A'S ACCOUNT IS HACKED BECAUSE RUSSIANS DO THAT ALL THE TIME) when I happend upong Dave A's comment on youtube under a video and posted the comment in the facebook group.
Scary stuff. Surprising how Trumps fake news-bullshit has even made some tenclubbers into zombies. The end is near etc.
This has nothing to do with Trump and everything to do with someone spelling their own name wrong. You really are making something out of nothing here.
Ah ok. Maybe. Then it's even more dumb.
To each his own but do you really think that pointing out that someone's name was spelt wrong leading some to believe that it was not Dave writing it is dumb? When was the last time you spelt your name wrong when making an official statement? This day and age with all the fake accounts I think it is fair to be skeptical of anything we read on the internet unfortunately.
I wouldn't call responding to someones comment on youtube an "official statement".
With it being his own account, and it being a youtube comment I think that it's a bit dumb/ignorant going immediately to CERTAIN FAKE NEWS IN CAPITAL LETTERS instead of "oh, he must have written that out fast and lose" or "his name is misspelled, are we sure this is Dave?"
But anyways. It was from his account. I don't think what he wrote is all that "crazy" (coming from him) but yes, he should write a bit slower on his phone to not miss that extra Z in his name.
And hopefully he calms down and focuses on his drumming and own projects in the future.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Just wanna point out again, that MANY fans in the facebook group said "FAKE NEWS" (or DAVE A'S ACCOUNT IS HACKED BECAUSE RUSSIANS DO THAT ALL THE TIME) when I happend upong Dave A's comment on youtube under a video and posted the comment in the facebook group.
Scary stuff. Surprising how Trumps fake news-bullshit has even made some tenclubbers into zombies. The end is near etc.
This has nothing to do with Trump and everything to do with someone spelling their own name wrong. You really are making something out of nothing here.
Ah ok. Maybe. Then it's even more dumb.
To each his own but do you really think that pointing out that someone's name was spelt wrong leading some to believe that it was not Dave writing it is dumb? When was the last time you spelt your name wrong when making an official statement? This day and age with all the fake accounts I think it is fair to be skeptical of anything we read on the internet unfortunately.
I wouldn't call responding to someones comment on youtube an "official statement".
With it being his own account, and it being a youtube comment I think that it's a bit dumb/ignorant going immediately to CERTAIN FAKE NEWS IN CAPITAL LETTERS instead of "oh, he must have written that out fast and lose" or "his name is misspelled, are we sure this is Dave?"
But anyways. It was from his account. I don't think what he wrote is all that "crazy" (coming from him) but yes, he should write a bit slower on his phone to not miss that extra Z in his name.
And hopefully he calms down and focuses on his drumming and own projects in the future.
Agreed 100% aside from the part that what he wrote wasn't so crazy. He really needs to move on and clinging on to this is not healthy. Cheers.
Dave A hasn't played a show with the greatest band in the world in TWENTY THREE years.
They've played hundreds of shows since, added two amazing drummers, released hundreds of bootlegs, made 7 records and played in front of hundreds of thousands of fans all over the globe.
Out of the band's almost 27 year career, he was part of three years.
And MFC destroys him on the kit.
Someone needs to move on. It's been TWENTY THREE YEARS.
And he was fired for a reason.
Dave A. -- and some internet losers -- are the only ones still whining. Grow up.
PJ is in the rock hall because of 1991-1994. He was the drummer from 1991-1994. I think that's all us "losers" are saying
Dave A hasn't played a show with the greatest band in the world in TWENTY THREE years.
They've played hundreds of shows since, added two amazing drummers, released hundreds of bootlegs, made 7 records and played in front of hundreds of thousands of fans all over the globe.
Out of the band's almost 27 year career, he was part of three years.
And MFC destroys him on the kit.
Someone needs to move on. It's been TWENTY THREE YEARS.
And he was fired for a reason.
Dave A. -- and some internet losers -- are the only ones still whining. Grow up.
PJ is in the rock hall because of 1991-1994. He was the drummer from 1991-1994. I think that's all us "losers" are saying
No, PJ is in the R&RHOF because of 1991-present.
Exactly. If there was no Pearl Jam after 1994 they may still have gone in someday. BUT...that honor would not have come on the first ballot and not as the headliner. The band went into the Hall in the way they did because of the strength of their entire career, not just a few of the early years.
Dave was a tight-pocket drummer with a slight funk feel. He worked great for 92-94. He also basically played the same drum beat for every song -- in many ways copying the Why Go beat Krusen wrote -- was WAY too cymbal heavy and fit the band less and less as it drastically and suddenly changed before worldwide eyes. EV and Dave by 04: oil and water. Imagining them making it work in 96 or 98 is just impossible.
No Code, Yield, Binaural, the best of 03-current don't happen if Dave is still in the band. Could you imagine him playing a splashy Who You Are or a funky You Are? Ugh, ugh, ugh.
I love everything about PJ in 93-94. One of their greatest eras and one of the most powerful in rock history. But it was TWO years of their career and Dave didn't write anything on Ten.
The band was good to him in recent months. He pissed all over that and lost any remaining sympathy -- evident by the posts in this thread.
He's the only one still clinging to something that happened 23 years ago. A few uninformed fans are the only ones trying to still right a "wrong" that had to happen for the band to evolve and survive. Real fans understand that.
No one's gonna care about this stuff in six months. PJ hasn't since 1995.
It's the RnR HoF and everyone was/is talking about it and commenting on it. I think saying, him commenting on it, answering questions, wanting to get his POV across about the invitation/induction-.issue is "He's the only one still clinging to something that happened 23 years ago" – is just hyperbole and PJ-sheepishly shitty.
I'm not saying Dave A isn't embarrassing or still holds grudge or whatever. But how many times during these 23 years has he talked about this? Compared to now when it turned into something because of the RnR HoF?
You're skewing and stretching and building up a false narrative- for what goal? Doing PR for Pearl Jam?
Dave A hasn't played a show with the greatest band in the world in TWENTY THREE years.
They've played hundreds of shows since, added two amazing drummers, released hundreds of bootlegs, made 7 records and played in front of hundreds of thousands of fans all over the globe.
Out of the band's almost 27 year career, he was part of three years.
And MFC destroys him on the kit.
Someone needs to move on. It's been TWENTY THREE YEARS.
And he was fired for a reason.
Dave A. -- and some internet losers -- are the only ones still whining. Grow up.
PJ is in the rock hall because of 1991-1994. He was the drummer from 1991-1994. I think that's all us "losers" are saying
Incorrect. That is where they made their name, were most famous and at their best for sure. Don't think there's any band in the HOF with a 3 year career. At least none that were cut short by som kind of trajedy. They made it because of that era and because they sustained and remained a major act for over 2 decades.
I think a lot of fans are forgetting one thing....the band are the ones who hit the brakes on their success. Not doing videos, releasing Who You Are as a single, releasing an album like No Code, Ticketmaster, etc. Sure they're success was going to plateau eventually, but the band are the ones who cut it short. They easily could have crapped out two Vitalogy type follow ups (with any drummer) and been U2 big, but they didn't. Soooo maybe we can stop the talk of Dave being some sort of virtuoso who crafted the sound.
I agree they were putting the brakes on for the most part. But what do you mean by releasing an album like No Code'? Are you saying they purposely wrote less radio friendly songs? NC was their first album I bought new, and didn't really bother to follow their history leading up to its release. I look back and hear the change on that album and assume it is them changing as musicians, as all musicians do, and not an intentional change to put the brakes on and keep the band together. I saw someone mention recently that Jeff almost quit the band during recording of NC and left for part of the sessions, but couldn't find anything on that. I agree that NC was a step down in terms of radio popularity, that and the success prior had absolutely nothing to do with Dave A.
Dave A hasn't played a show with the greatest band in the world in TWENTY THREE years.
They've played hundreds of shows since, added two amazing drummers, released hundreds of bootlegs, made 7 records and played in front of hundreds of thousands of fans all over the globe.
Out of the band's almost 27 year career, he was part of three years.
And MFC destroys him on the kit.
Someone needs to move on. It's been TWENTY THREE YEARS.
And he was fired for a reason.
Dave A. -- and some internet losers -- are the only ones still whining. Grow up.
PJ is in the rock hall because of 1991-1994. He was the drummer from 1991-1994. I think that's all us "losers" are saying
Incorrect. That is where they made their name, were most famous and at their best for sure. Don't think there's any band in the HOF with a 3 year career. At least none that were cut short by som kind of trajedy. They made it because of that era and because they sustained and remained a major act for over 2 decades.
I think a lot of fans are forgetting one thing....the band are the ones who hit the brakes on their success. Not doing videos, releasing Who You Are as a single, releasing an album like No Code, Ticketmaster, etc. Sure they're success was going to plateau eventually, but the band are the ones who cut it short. They easily could have crapped out two Vitalogy type follow ups (with any drummer) and been U2 big, but they didn't. Soooo maybe we can stop the talk of Dave being some sort of virtuoso who crafted the sound.
I agree they were putting the brakes on for the most part. But what do you mean by releasing an album like No Code'? Are you saying they purposely wrote less radio friendly songs? NC was their first album I bought new, and didn't really bother to follow their history leading up to its release. I look back and hear the change on that album and assume it is them changing as musicians, as all musicians do, and not an intentional change to put the brakes on and keep the band together. I saw someone mention recently that Jeff almost quit the band during recording of NC and left for part of the sessions, but couldn't find anything on that. I agree that NC was a step down in terms of radio popularity, that and the success prior had absolutely nothing to do with Dave A.
Matt Chamberlain politely declined the invitation. Jack Irons graciously accepted the invitation. Dave...behaved like this.
I'm not defending Dave A or really care (more than that it would have be cool to hear his drumming again) but this is just skewing things to paint him in a bad light.
What he is saying - his point of view - is that there was no direct/personal invitation. Just the letter – As in, an empty gesture.
And even though I understand why the band would not want him there, I also understand what he means by that. If they really wanted him there and meant something with the letter - they could and should have called him or reached out to him.
Just put yourself in the situation, is it really an invitation if its up to him to reach out for a party with people he haven't met in 20 years and that he's not included in to begin with?
And Jeffs t-shirt points to the letter meaning nothing (or just hypocrisy), with him not having Dave A on the shirt but Chad Channing.
I think writing that kind of a letter, but not even trying to reach out directly makes it hollow and a bit slimey.
But, I don't care. I just think all the shitting on Dave (without taking in his point of view or what he's actually saying) is ignorant and unnecessary.
But ofc I understand why the band would not want him there. But then don't act all noble with that letter. If there's no truth behind the words.
EDIT:
And this was a youtube comment from him that blew up. He just wanted to put "it straight" from his POV on a comment under a youtube video (why he was lurking youtube looking for videos of the evening is a bit sad... or maybe cute(?) and I don't really think what's so bad about his comment, other than the wording of it. Not like he's shitting on the band(?)... for once.
I'm not skewing anything and I'm not the one painting Dave in a bad light. He has done that all by himself.
The band doesn't decide who gets inducted. The band put out a statement welcoming all drummers to attend. Jack Irons took them up on it. Matt Chamberlain did not. Dave used it as an opportunity to vent 20+ year old anger, and in doing so said some crazy things. He owns that, so don't blame others for somehow painting him in a negative light.
Thought I'd chime in here........Matt Chamberlain and Jack Irons did not leave the band under the same circumstances as Dave A, he was kicked out because his principles didn't sit right with the rest of the band. Matt Chamberlain clearly knows his place in their history, and knows he doesn't deserve a place in the HOF for his contributions. Ed recently played with Jack Irons, so clearly they're on good terms - I'll bet he got a proper invite from the band/management.
While Ed did give Dave A a shout out in his speech, he looked really sheepish and embarrassed to me, like he knew that the situation wasn't probably handled very well, yet after 20 years nobody really wants to acknowledge that.
Dave A's comments kind of remind me of some of Billy Corgan's press over the last few years, where he's been singing his own praises and claiming his place in rock history - mostly because nobody else seems to be championing him. To an extent I can understand the mindset, and whilst it's not particularly dignified or endearing, there is a vaild point within it. Dave A was the right drummer for them at the time, and played those early songs with an incredible energy to absolute perfection. Matt Cameron is an equally incredible drummer (arguably more creative in Soundgarden), but in Pearl Jam he's more of what I would consider an 'all rounder' - there's no doubting he's an absolute powerhouse, and to have the stamina to play with such power for such long shows is a huge achievement in itself, but I don't think he brings the individual style that Dave A and Jack Irons did.
I don't believe much of what I read on social media. Too many fake accounts and twisted stories.
Here's my 2 cents -
I love Dave's drumming.
He was a contributor to 2 great records. He should've gotten inducted with the band along with MFC, Krusen and Irons (I know he's already in with the Peppers.
The RRHOF has some pretty odd rules, many of which don't make any sense to me but I'm not part of the organization.
None of us know the real story, there's waaaaay too much speculation, which leads me to my last point:
This shit needs to be put to rest. It's all been said before...in probably 10 different threads.
Post edited by lotsalemon on
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Matt Chamberlain politely declined the invitation. Jack Irons graciously accepted the invitation. Dave...behaved like this.
I'm not defending Dave A or really care (more than that it would have be cool to hear his drumming again) but this is just skewing things to paint him in a bad light.
What he is saying - his point of view - is that there was no direct/personal invitation. Just the letter – As in, an empty gesture.
And even though I understand why the band would not want him there, I also understand what he means by that. If they really wanted him there and meant something with the letter - they could and should have called him or reached out to him.
Just put yourself in the situation, is it really an invitation if its up to him to reach out for a party with people he haven't met in 20 years and that he's not included in to begin with?
And Jeffs t-shirt points to the letter meaning nothing (or just hypocrisy), with him not having Dave A on the shirt but Chad Channing.
I think writing that kind of a letter, but not even trying to reach out directly makes it hollow and a bit slimey.
But, I don't care. I just think all the shitting on Dave (without taking in his point of view or what he's actually saying) is ignorant and unnecessary.
But ofc I understand why the band would not want him there. But then don't act all noble with that letter. If there's no truth behind the words.
EDIT:
And this was a youtube comment from him that blew up. He just wanted to put "it straight" from his POV on a comment under a youtube video (why he was lurking youtube looking for videos of the evening is a bit sad... or maybe cute(?) and I don't really think what's so bad about his comment, other than the wording of it. Not like he's shitting on the band(?)... for once.
I'm not skewing anything and I'm not the one painting Dave in a bad light. He has done that all by himself.
The band doesn't decide who gets inducted. The band put out a statement welcoming all drummers to attend. Jack Irons took them up on it. Matt Chamberlain did not. Dave used it as an opportunity to vent 20+ year old anger, and in doing so said some crazy things. He owns that, so don't blame others for somehow painting him in a negative light.
Thought I'd chime in here........Matt Chamberlain and Jack Irons did not leave the band under the same circumstances as Dave A, he was kicked out because his principles didn't sit right with the rest of the band. Matt Chamberlain clearly knows his place in their history, and knows he doesn't deserve a place in the HOF for his contributions. Ed recently played with Jack Irons, so clearly they're on good terms - I'll bet he got a proper invite from the band/management.
While Ed did give Dave A a shout out in his speech, he looked really sheepish and embarrassed to me, like he knew that the situation wasn't probably handled very well, yet after 20 years nobody really wants to acknowledge that.
Dave A's comments kind of remind me of some of Billy Corgan's press over the last few years, where he's been singing his own praises and claiming his place in rock history - mostly because nobody else seems to be championing him. To an extent I can understand the mindset, and whilst it's not particularly dignified or endearing, there is a vaild point within it. Dave A was the right drummer for them at the time, and played those early songs with an incredible energy to absolute perfection. Matt Cameron is an equally incredible drummer (arguably more creative in Soundgarden), but in Pearl Jam he's more of what I would consider an 'all rounder' - there's no doubting he's an absolute powerhouse, and to have the stamina to play with such power for such long shows is a huge achievement in itself, but I don't think he brings the individual style that Dave A and Jack Irons did.
To clarify, I'm not diminishing Dave's contribution in any way. I am one who believes the RRHOF should have inducted him. But the decision not to do so was made by them, not by Pearl Jam. If someone slapped Dave in the face it was the RRHOF, not Pearl Jam. The band put out that as far as they were concerned all past drummers were welcome. Dave chose not to attend.
Matt Chamberlain politely declined the invitation. Jack Irons graciously accepted the invitation. Dave...behaved like this.
I'm not defending Dave A or really care (more than that it would have be cool to hear his drumming again) but this is just skewing things to paint him in a bad light.
What he is saying - his point of view - is that there was no direct/personal invitation. Just the letter – As in, an empty gesture.
And even though I understand why the band would not want him there, I also understand what he means by that. If they really wanted him there and meant something with the letter - they could and should have called him or reached out to him.
Just put yourself in the situation, is it really an invitation if its up to him to reach out for a party with people he haven't met in 20 years and that he's not included in to begin with?
And Jeffs t-shirt points to the letter meaning nothing (or just hypocrisy), with him not having Dave A on the shirt but Chad Channing.
I think writing that kind of a letter, but not even trying to reach out directly makes it hollow and a bit slimey.
But, I don't care. I just think all the shitting on Dave (without taking in his point of view or what he's actually saying) is ignorant and unnecessary.
But ofc I understand why the band would not want him there. But then don't act all noble with that letter. If there's no truth behind the words.
EDIT:
And this was a youtube comment from him that blew up. He just wanted to put "it straight" from his POV on a comment under a youtube video (why he was lurking youtube looking for videos of the evening is a bit sad... or maybe cute(?) and I don't really think what's so bad about his comment, other than the wording of it. Not like he's shitting on the band(?)... for once.
I'm not skewing anything and I'm not the one painting Dave in a bad light. He has done that all by himself.
The band doesn't decide who gets inducted. The band put out a statement welcoming all drummers to attend. Jack Irons took them up on it. Matt Chamberlain did not. Dave used it as an opportunity to vent 20+ year old anger, and in doing so said some crazy things. He owns that, so don't blame others for somehow painting him in a negative light.
Thought I'd chime in here........Matt Chamberlain and Jack Irons did not leave the band under the same circumstances as Dave A, he was kicked out because his principles didn't sit right with the rest of the band. Matt Chamberlain clearly knows his place in their history, and knows he doesn't deserve a place in the HOF for his contributions. Ed recently played with Jack Irons, so clearly they're on good terms - I'll bet he got a proper invite from the band/management.
While Ed did give Dave A a shout out in his speech, he looked really sheepish and embarrassed to me, like he knew that the situation wasn't probably handled very well, yet after 20 years nobody really wants to acknowledge that.
Dave A's comments kind of remind me of some of Billy Corgan's press over the last few years, where he's been singing his own praises and claiming his place in rock history - mostly because nobody else seems to be championing him. To an extent I can understand the mindset, and whilst it's not particularly dignified or endearing, there is a vaild point within it. Dave A was the right drummer for them at the time, and played those early songs with an incredible energy to absolute perfection. Matt Cameron is an equally incredible drummer (arguably more creative in Soundgarden), but in Pearl Jam he's more of what I would consider an 'all rounder' - there's no doubting he's an absolute powerhouse, and to have the stamina to play with such power for such long shows is a huge achievement in itself, but I don't think he brings the individual style that Dave A and Jack Irons did.
To clarify, I'm not diminishing Dave's contribution in any way. I am one who believes the RRHOF should have inducted him. But the decision not to do so was made by them, not by Pearl Jam. If someone slapped Dave in the face it was the RRHOF, not Pearl Jam. The band put out that as far as they were concerned all past drummers were welcome. Dave chose not to attend.
I think they're two separate issues, Dave was clearly miffed about not being inducted, and rightly so, and of course this was out of PJ's hands. However, saying that someone is invited, but making no effort to actually reach out to that person and actively invite them, looks like they're paying lip service and nothing else. What they were really saying was that Dave was free to procure his own ticket to the event and attend - it's not like they were going to have him sit at their table, or any table for that matter. I'd imagine Matt Chamberlain didn't get a formal invite either, to be fair. Yet Jack Irons was up there weirdly playing the cymbals - clearly he got a personal invite, and I bet he got a seat at a table, without him Pearl Jam wouldn't exist, after all.
Matt Chamberlain politely declined the invitation. Jack Irons graciously accepted the invitation. Dave...behaved like this.
I'm not defending Dave A or really care (more than that it would have be cool to hear his drumming again) but this is just skewing things to paint him in a bad light.
What he is saying - his point of view - is that there was no direct/personal invitation. Just the letter – As in, an empty gesture.
And even though I understand why the band would not want him there, I also understand what he means by that. If they really wanted him there and meant something with the letter - they could and should have called him or reached out to him.
Just put yourself in the situation, is it really an invitation if its up to him to reach out for a party with people he haven't met in 20 years and that he's not included in to begin with?
And Jeffs t-shirt points to the letter meaning nothing (or just hypocrisy), with him not having Dave A on the shirt but Chad Channing.
I think writing that kind of a letter, but not even trying to reach out directly makes it hollow and a bit slimey.
But, I don't care. I just think all the shitting on Dave (without taking in his point of view or what he's actually saying) is ignorant and unnecessary.
But ofc I understand why the band would not want him there. But then don't act all noble with that letter. If there's no truth behind the words.
EDIT:
And this was a youtube comment from him that blew up. He just wanted to put "it straight" from his POV on a comment under a youtube video (why he was lurking youtube looking for videos of the evening is a bit sad... or maybe cute(?) and I don't really think what's so bad about his comment, other than the wording of it. Not like he's shitting on the band(?)... for once.
I'm not skewing anything and I'm not the one painting Dave in a bad light. He has done that all by himself.
The band doesn't decide who gets inducted. The band put out a statement welcoming all drummers to attend. Jack Irons took them up on it. Matt Chamberlain did not. Dave used it as an opportunity to vent 20+ year old anger, and in doing so said some crazy things. He owns that, so don't blame others for somehow painting him in a negative light.
Thought I'd chime in here........Matt Chamberlain and Jack Irons did not leave the band under the same circumstances as Dave A, he was kicked out because his principles didn't sit right with the rest of the band. Matt Chamberlain clearly knows his place in their history, and knows he doesn't deserve a place in the HOF for his contributions. Ed recently played with Jack Irons, so clearly they're on good terms - I'll bet he got a proper invite from the band/management.
While Ed did give Dave A a shout out in his speech, he looked really sheepish and embarrassed to me, like he knew that the situation wasn't probably handled very well, yet after 20 years nobody really wants to acknowledge that.
Dave A's comments kind of remind me of some of Billy Corgan's press over the last few years, where he's been singing his own praises and claiming his place in rock history - mostly because nobody else seems to be championing him. To an extent I can understand the mindset, and whilst it's not particularly dignified or endearing, there is a vaild point within it. Dave A was the right drummer for them at the time, and played those early songs with an incredible energy to absolute perfection. Matt Cameron is an equally incredible drummer (arguably more creative in Soundgarden), but in Pearl Jam he's more of what I would consider an 'all rounder' - there's no doubting he's an absolute powerhouse, and to have the stamina to play with such power for such long shows is a huge achievement in itself, but I don't think he brings the individual style that Dave A and Jack Irons did.
To clarify, I'm not diminishing Dave's contribution in any way. I am one who believes the RRHOF should have inducted him. But the decision not to do so was made by them, not by Pearl Jam. If someone slapped Dave in the face it was the RRHOF, not Pearl Jam. The band put out that as far as they were concerned all past drummers were welcome. Dave chose not to attend.
I think they're two separate issues, Dave was clearly miffed about not being inducted, and rightly so, and of course this was out of PJ's hands. However, saying that someone is invited, but making no effort to actually reach out to that person and actively invite them, looks like they're paying lip service and nothing else. What they were really saying was that Dave was free to procure his own ticket to the event and attend - it's not like they were going to have him sit at their table, or any table for that matter. I'd imagine Matt Chamberlain didn't get a formal invite either, to be fair. Yet Jack Irons was up there weirdly playing the cymbals - clearly he got a personal invite, and I bet he got a seat at a table, without him Pearl Jam wouldn't exist, after all.
How is it lip service? They put out that they were looking forward to seeing everyone. It wasn't their party, it was the HOF's. Of course Dave was free to procure his own ticket and attend. Dave opted not to attend. It isn't up to Pearl Jam to compel him to or to try and change his mind. I don't blame Dave for not wanting to attend, but I also don't blame Pearl Jam for not doing more than they did to accommodate him either.
Dave A hasn't played a show with the greatest band in the world in TWENTY THREE years.
They've played hundreds of shows since, added two amazing drummers, released hundreds of bootlegs, made 7 records and played in front of hundreds of thousands of fans all over the globe.
Out of the band's almost 27 year career, he was part of three years.
And MFC destroys him on the kit.
Someone needs to move on. It's been TWENTY THREE YEARS.
And he was fired for a reason.
Dave A. -- and some internet losers -- are the only ones still whining. Grow up.
PJ is in the rock hall because of 1991-1994. He was the drummer from 1991-1994. I think that's all us "losers" are saying
Incorrect. That is where they made their name, were most famous and at their best for sure. Don't think there's any band in the HOF with a 3 year career. At least none that were cut short by som kind of trajedy. They made it because of that era and because they sustained and remained a major act for over 2 decades.
I think a lot of fans are forgetting one thing....the band are the ones who hit the brakes on their success. Not doing videos, releasing Who You Are as a single, releasing an album like No Code, Ticketmaster, etc. Sure they're success was going to plateau eventually, but the band are the ones who cut it short. They easily could have crapped out two Vitalogy type follow ups (with any drummer) and been U2 big, but they didn't. Soooo maybe we can stop the talk of Dave being some sort of virtuoso who crafted the sound.
I agree they were putting the brakes on for the most part. But what do you mean by releasing an album like No Code'? Are you saying they purposely wrote less radio friendly songs? NC was their first album I bought new, and didn't really bother to follow their history leading up to its release. I look back and hear the change on that album and assume it is them changing as musicians, as all musicians do, and not an intentional change to put the brakes on and keep the band together. I saw someone mention recently that Jeff almost quit the band during recording of NC and left for part of the sessions, but couldn't find anything on that. I agree that NC was a step down in terms of radio popularity, that and the success prior had absolutely nothing to do with Dave A.
I'm exactly saying the band stopped writing commercial songs on purpose for No Code. I thought that was a given around here and I'm certain the band has said that very thing. I'm not complaining though, I think that makes No Code that much better.
I loved Dave when he was in the band. He helped PJ make a couple of great albums. He really is starting to remind me of Billy Corgan, though. This isn't a good thing. .
"It's best to live in grace before you're forced to." EV- 10/09/2014
I'm not saying they didnt do that, I just didnt think it started with NC. Seems like it started earlier. Didnt they not want to include Betterman on Vitalogy because they thought it was going to be a hit? And wasnt it originally brought to the band during vs but not included for the same reason? I was always under the impression that they wrote songs they wanted to write and in the early 90s that coincided with the grunge movement and what the radio wanted. In the mid 90s radio took a turn and had other music and bands to focus on and PJ took a turn as well. And not that necessarily they were writing for the radio in their first 3 albums (except maybe a little on 10) and suddenly made a decision not to on NC. I know they have intentionally released singles for that reason, I remember Ed saying they chose to release NAIS as the first single for Binaural for a similar reason. But not writing for radio didnt seem like a new concept for No Code. They hadn't done any videos since 10, which makes it seem like the anti-radio trend started much sooner.
Matt Chamberlain politely declined the invitation. Jack Irons graciously accepted the invitation. Dave...behaved like this.
How is it lip service? They put out that they were looking forward to seeing everyone. It wasn't their party, it was the HOF's. Of course Dave was free to procure his own ticket and attend. Dave opted not to attend. It isn't up to Pearl Jam to compel him to or to try and change his mind. I don't blame Dave for not wanting to attend, but I also don't blame Pearl Jam for not doing more than they did to accommodate him either.
It's lip service because he clearly wasn't afforded the same personal level of accomodation that Jack Irons was - do you think he had to buy his own ticket?
The fact remains that Dave A is estranged from the band, would you want to turn up knowing that you weren't wanted there? He's already been told by the HOF that he's not being inducted, the band could have chosen to include him regardless if they felt he genuinely deserved acknowledgment - an open ended 'you can turn up if you like' is not the same as inviting someone then actually setting the wheels in motion to include that person. How incredible would it have been to see Dave play Rearviewmirror or Animal with them once more? It was pretty much a one time opportunity that would have meant the world to Dave and a lot of fans.
I don't blame Pearl Jam for not wanting to properly invite him though, because it would have made for a very uncomfortable situation - you could see that awkwardness even in Ed's faint praise, it's a difficult situation for sure, but they shouldn't have put out the press release that all drummers were invited unless they really meant it.
But hey, I'm just going on what appear to be the facts of the situation, maybe they did extend a proper invitation and Dave's a big fat liar.....
It's lip service because he clearly wasn't afforded the same personal level of accomodation that Jack Irons was - do you think he had to buy his own ticket?
The fact remains that Dave A is estranged from the band, would you want to turn up knowing that you weren't wanted there? He's already been told by the HOF that he's not being inducted, the band could have chosen to include him regardless if they felt he genuinely deserved acknowledgment - an open ended 'you can turn up if you like' is not the same as inviting someone then actually setting the wheels in motion to include that person. How incredible would it have been to see Dave play Rearviewmirror or Animal with them once more? It was pretty much a one time opportunity that would have meant the world to Dave and a lot of fans.
I don't blame Pearl Jam for not wanting to properly invite him though, because it would have made for a very uncomfortable situation - you could see that awkwardness even in Ed's faint praise, it's a difficult situation for sure, but they shouldn't have put out the press release that all drummers were invited unless they really meant it.
But hey, I'm just going on what appear to be the facts of the situation, maybe they did extend a proper invitation and Dave's a big fat liar.....
It's lip service because he clearly wasn't afforded the same personal level of accomodation that Jack Irons was - do you think he had to buy his own ticket?
The fact remains that Dave A is estranged from the band, would you want to turn up knowing that you weren't wanted there? He's already been told by the HOF that he's not being inducted, the band could have chosen to include him regardless if they felt he genuinely deserved acknowledgment - an open ended 'you can turn up if you like' is not the same as inviting someone then actually setting the wheels in motion to include that person. How incredible would it have been to see Dave play Rearviewmirror or Animal with them once more? It was pretty much a one time opportunity that would have meant the world to Dave and a lot of fans.
I don't blame Pearl Jam for not wanting to properly invite him though, because it would have made for a very uncomfortable situation - you could see that awkwardness even in Ed's faint praise, it's a difficult situation for sure, but they shouldn't have put out the press release that all drummers were invited unless they really meant it.
But hey, I'm just going on what appear to be the facts of the situation, maybe they did extend a proper invitation and Dave's a big fat liar.....
Jack is close friends with Ed, but he is also already a member of the RRHOF via RHCP. I don't know what he has to pay to attend or who paid it. I personally don't think the band paid $10,000 for him to attend but I have no way of knowing that for sure.
And when did a "proper invite" become synonymous with buying someone a ticket? Had they bought Dave a ticket, would they then be on the hook for his travel to Brooklyn and hotel room, too? None of that has anything to do with an invite, and none of that changes the fact that Pearl Jam was not making the guest list or throwing the party.
Dave showing up and playing might have meant the world to you and to many other fans, but when you say it would have meant the world to Dave you are projecting. We have no way of knowing that. To me Dave just seems angry. I personally doubt showing up and playing a song would have made him any less angry. That Pearl Jam publicly announcing that they looked forward to seeing him at the ceremony wasn't a proper enough invitation to a party they themselves were not throwing seems like quite the stretch.
I remember when "Who You Are" was released as a single. The radio stations around Va Beach started playing "Habit" instead after a couple of days. This was also the time when a lot of my friends were like "You STILL listen to them?". I do think that No Code was a deliberate attempt to scale back some of the hoopla surrounding the band at the time. There was also limited press.
Regardless of whatever happened, they're still around today because of the decisions made back then. They had their eye on the longevity of the band and not the immediate success. Jack helped them get to that place and that's why they're still around today. PJ extended the olive branch to Dave and he got public recognition from the band. The Hall should've noticed his efforts, but didn't. It is what it is. For Dave to keep going on about it is embarrassing. I hope he finds peace.
Post edited by erocshifty on
"It's best to live in grace before you're forced to." EV- 10/09/2014
Please take the personal attacks and gossip elsewhere. That’s why these threads keep getting closed. Please see the Posting Guidelines especially #1, #5, and #11.
Comments
Scary stuff. Surprising how Trumps fake news-bullshit has even made some tenclubbers into zombies. The end is near etc.
The band doesn't decide who gets inducted. The band put out a statement welcoming all drummers to attend. Jack Irons took them up on it. Matt Chamberlain did not. Dave used it as an opportunity to vent 20+ year old anger, and in doing so said some crazy things. He owns that, so don't blame others for somehow painting him in a negative light.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
With it being his own account, and it being a youtube comment I think that it's a bit dumb/ignorant going immediately to CERTAIN FAKE NEWS IN CAPITAL LETTERS instead of "oh, he must have written that out fast and lose" or "his name is misspelled, are we sure this is Dave?"
But anyways. It was from his account. I don't think what he wrote is all that "crazy" (coming from him) but yes, he should write a bit slower on his phone to not miss that extra Z in his name.
And hopefully he calms down and focuses on his drumming and own projects in the future.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
But what do you mean by releasing an album like No Code'? Are you saying they purposely wrote less radio friendly songs? NC was their first album I bought new, and didn't really bother to follow their history leading up to its release. I look back and hear the change on that album and assume it is them changing as musicians, as all musicians do, and not an intentional change to put the brakes on and keep the band together.
I saw someone mention recently that Jeff almost quit the band during recording of NC and left for part of the sessions, but couldn't find anything on that.
I agree that NC was a step down in terms of radio popularity, that and the success prior had absolutely nothing to do with Dave A.
"0035 EVENFLOW PSYCHOS
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Don't stop wen you're tired, stop when you're done
While Ed did give Dave A a shout out in his speech, he looked really sheepish and embarrassed to me, like he knew that the situation wasn't probably handled very well, yet after 20 years nobody really wants to acknowledge that.
Dave A's comments kind of remind me of some of Billy Corgan's press over the last few years, where he's been singing his own praises and claiming his place in rock history - mostly because nobody else seems to be championing him. To an extent I can understand the mindset, and whilst it's not particularly dignified or endearing, there is a vaild point within it. Dave A was the right drummer for them at the time, and played those early songs with an incredible energy to absolute perfection. Matt Cameron is an equally incredible drummer (arguably more creative in Soundgarden), but in Pearl Jam he's more of what I would consider an 'all rounder' - there's no doubting he's an absolute powerhouse, and to have the stamina to play with such power for such long shows is a huge achievement in itself, but I don't think he brings the individual style that Dave A and Jack Irons did.
Here's my 2 cents -
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"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
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Didnt they not want to include Betterman on Vitalogy because they thought it was going to be a hit? And wasnt it originally brought to the band during vs but not included for the same reason?
I was always under the impression that they wrote songs they wanted to write and in the early 90s that coincided with the grunge movement and what the radio wanted. In the mid 90s radio took a turn and had other music and bands to focus on and PJ took a turn as well. And not that necessarily they were writing for the radio in their first 3 albums (except maybe a little on 10) and suddenly made a decision not to on NC.
I know they have intentionally released singles for that reason, I remember Ed saying they chose to release NAIS as the first single for Binaural for a similar reason. But not writing for radio didnt seem like a new concept for No Code. They hadn't done any videos since 10, which makes it seem like the anti-radio trend started much sooner.
The fact remains that Dave A is estranged from the band, would you want to turn up knowing that you weren't wanted there? He's already been told by the HOF that he's not being inducted, the band could have chosen to include him regardless if they felt he genuinely deserved acknowledgment - an open ended 'you can turn up if you like' is not the same as inviting someone then actually setting the wheels in motion to include that person. How incredible would it have been to see Dave play Rearviewmirror or Animal with them once more? It was pretty much a one time opportunity that would have meant the world to Dave and a lot of fans.
I don't blame Pearl Jam for not wanting to properly invite him though, because it would have made for a very uncomfortable situation - you could see that awkwardness even in Ed's faint praise, it's a difficult situation for sure, but they shouldn't have put out the press release that all drummers were invited unless they really meant it.
But hey, I'm just going on what appear to be the facts of the situation, maybe they did extend a proper invitation and Dave's a big fat liar.....
And when did a "proper invite" become synonymous with buying someone a ticket? Had they bought Dave a ticket, would they then be on the hook for his travel to Brooklyn and hotel room, too? None of that has anything to do with an invite, and none of that changes the fact that Pearl Jam was not making the guest list or throwing the party.
Dave showing up and playing might have meant the world to you and to many other fans, but when you say it would have meant the world to Dave you are projecting. We have no way of knowing that. To me Dave just seems angry. I personally doubt showing up and playing a song would have made him any less angry. That Pearl Jam publicly announcing that they looked forward to seeing him at the ceremony wasn't a proper enough invitation to a party they themselves were not throwing seems like quite the stretch.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Regardless of whatever happened, they're still around today because of the decisions made back then. They had their eye on the longevity of the band and not the immediate success. Jack helped them get to that place and that's why they're still around today. PJ extended the olive branch to Dave and he got public recognition from the band. The Hall should've noticed his efforts, but didn't. It is what it is. For Dave to keep going on about it is embarrassing. I hope he finds peace.
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Thank you