Options

Can the Constitution be Used to Get Rid of Trump?

2

Comments

  • Options
    InHiding80InHiding80 Upland,CA Posts: 7,623
    edited November 2016
    Yes
    vaggar99 said:

    unsung said:

    LOL, now liberals care about the Constitution.

    always cared about it
    That's because we're Berniecrat libs and not neolib scum.
    Post edited by InHiding80 on
  • Options
    unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    edited November 2016
    PJ_Soul said:

    unsung said:

    LOL, now liberals care about the Constitution.

    When didn't they?
    Hahahahaha, you made a funny.

    Post edited by unsung on
  • Options
    unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    The next poll:

    Should vaggar99 be banned from creating polls?

    1. Yes

    2. Yes
  • Options
    vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USA Posts: 3,426
    edited November 2016
    Yes
    ^^^perhaps you should actually start a poll on this. I for one am interested in the results
  • Options
    vaggar99 said:

    ^^^perhaps you should actually start a poll on this. I for one am interested in the results

    Hahahahah, im pretty sure you know what the results will be
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • Options
    Did we get an answer on this yet OP?
  • Options
    vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USA Posts: 3,426
    Yes
    Trevor Noah bit includes more about ESP's conflict of interests
    https://youtu.be/EO1kcRYemic
  • Options
    vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USA Posts: 3,426
  • Options
    benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 8,938
    edited December 2016
    vaggar99 said:
    I love flow charts, because they help identify fallacious logic so quickly.

    The three flow charts - Trump International Hotels, Deutsche Bank, and the Internal Revenue Service, all define the flow of influence, not transactions. The emoluments clause explicitly speaks to direct compensation. If influence to indirectly produce profit for one's self or family was illegal in government, I can't imagine you'd have many people in the White House today.

    To reiterate: to impeach a person from office, you must present a Constitutional law and present certain (in the eyes of the court) evidence of violation of said law. The only Constitutional law you've presented is the Emoluments Clause, and your evidence has been inadequate based on what Trump has said he intends to do prior to taking office. Should he not go through with what he said he would, it will be a different story.
    Post edited by benjs on
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Options
    Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,631
    benjs said:

    vaggar99 said:
    I love flow charts, because they help identify fallacious logic so quickly.

    The three flow charts - Trump International Hotels, Deutsche Bank, and the Internal Revenue Service, all define the flow of influence, not transactions. The emoluments clause explicitly speaks to direct compensation. If influence to indirectly produce profit for one's self or family was illegal in government, I can't imagine you'd have many people in the White House today.
    And over time, in the next year or two, we'll see trump use his position to profit directly.
  • Options
    benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 8,938

    benjs said:

    vaggar99 said:
    I love flow charts, because they help identify fallacious logic so quickly.

    The three flow charts - Trump International Hotels, Deutsche Bank, and the Internal Revenue Service, all define the flow of influence, not transactions. The emoluments clause explicitly speaks to direct compensation. If influence to indirectly produce profit for one's self or family was illegal in government, I can't imagine you'd have many people in the White House today.
    And over time, in the next year or two, we'll see trump use his position to profit directly.
    Do you think Trump's legal team will honestly be obtuse enough not to cover their bases and protect his interests as a businessman and as the President? Trump will use the legal loopholes which exist to his advantage, to funnel profits to himself and his family and retain legally-adequate distance between President Trump and Trump the businessman. He did this as a businessman, and he will continue to do this as President.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Options
    Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,631
    I don't think he'll have the distance, both real and perceived. He's too much of a narcissist to hide it. He'll be proud of it. He'll also have pissed off a lot of republicans along the way, so they'll be eager to have Pence in there to do as he's told.
  • Options
    benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 8,938

    I don't think he'll have the distance, both real and perceived. He's too much of a narcissist to hide it. He'll be proud of it. He'll also have pissed off a lot of republicans along the way, so they'll be eager to have Pence in there to do as he's told.

    Right - but just as he does with his tax dollars, why wouldn't he just say that he's proud to be using perfectly legal loopholes to separate Trump the President from Trump the Businessperson?
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Options
    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,833
    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    vaggar99 said:
    I love flow charts, because they help identify fallacious logic so quickly.

    The three flow charts - Trump International Hotels, Deutsche Bank, and the Internal Revenue Service, all define the flow of influence, not transactions. The emoluments clause explicitly speaks to direct compensation. If influence to indirectly produce profit for one's self or family was illegal in government, I can't imagine you'd have many people in the White House today.
    And over time, in the next year or two, we'll see trump use his position to profit directly.
    Do you think Trump's legal team will honestly be obtuse enough not to cover their bases and protect his interests as a businessman and as the President? Trump will use the legal loopholes which exist to his advantage, to funnel profits to himself and his family and retain legally-adequate distance between President Trump and Trump the businessman. He did this as a businessman, and he will continue to do this as President.
    he's a moron, but his lawyers most likely are not. I agree with you on this benjs.
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Options
    benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 8,938

    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    vaggar99 said:
    I love flow charts, because they help identify fallacious logic so quickly.

    The three flow charts - Trump International Hotels, Deutsche Bank, and the Internal Revenue Service, all define the flow of influence, not transactions. The emoluments clause explicitly speaks to direct compensation. If influence to indirectly produce profit for one's self or family was illegal in government, I can't imagine you'd have many people in the White House today.
    And over time, in the next year or two, we'll see trump use his position to profit directly.
    Do you think Trump's legal team will honestly be obtuse enough not to cover their bases and protect his interests as a businessman and as the President? Trump will use the legal loopholes which exist to his advantage, to funnel profits to himself and his family and retain legally-adequate distance between President Trump and Trump the businessman. He did this as a businessman, and he will continue to do this as President.
    he's a moron, but his lawyers most likely are not. I agree with you on this benjs.
    I've always been told that in business, you should make a point of surrounding yourself with people smarter than yourself. I have little doubt that Trump subscribes to that, and takes credit on behalf of his teams.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Options
    2-feign-reluctance2-feign-reluctance TigerTown, USA Posts: 23,143
    I predict impeachment at some point.
    www.cluthelee.com
  • Options
    vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USA Posts: 3,426
    Yes
    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    vaggar99 said:
    I love flow charts, because they help identify fallacious logic so quickly.

    The three flow charts - Trump International Hotels, Deutsche Bank, and the Internal Revenue Service, all define the flow of influence, not transactions. The emoluments clause explicitly speaks to direct compensation. If influence to indirectly produce profit for one's self or family was illegal in government, I can't imagine you'd have many people in the White House today.
    And over time, in the next year or two, we'll see trump use his position to profit directly.
    Do you think Trump's legal team will honestly be obtuse enough not to cover their bases and protect his interests as a businessman and as the President? Trump will use the legal loopholes which exist to his advantage, to funnel profits to himself and his family and retain legally-adequate distance between President Trump and Trump the businessman. He did this as a businessman, and he will continue to do this as President.
    he's a moron, but his lawyers most likely are not. I agree with you on this benjs.
    I've always been told that in business, you should make a point of surrounding yourself with people smarter than yourself. I have little doubt that Trump subscribes to that, and takes credit on behalf of his teams.
    that's probably true. one should always remind themselves that there are smarter people out there then yourself. However, smarter does not translate to an understanding of the greater good.
  • Options
    benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 8,938
    vaggar99 said:

    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    vaggar99 said:
    I love flow charts, because they help identify fallacious logic so quickly.

    The three flow charts - Trump International Hotels, Deutsche Bank, and the Internal Revenue Service, all define the flow of influence, not transactions. The emoluments clause explicitly speaks to direct compensation. If influence to indirectly produce profit for one's self or family was illegal in government, I can't imagine you'd have many people in the White House today.
    And over time, in the next year or two, we'll see trump use his position to profit directly.
    Do you think Trump's legal team will honestly be obtuse enough not to cover their bases and protect his interests as a businessman and as the President? Trump will use the legal loopholes which exist to his advantage, to funnel profits to himself and his family and retain legally-adequate distance between President Trump and Trump the businessman. He did this as a businessman, and he will continue to do this as President.
    he's a moron, but his lawyers most likely are not. I agree with you on this benjs.
    I've always been told that in business, you should make a point of surrounding yourself with people smarter than yourself. I have little doubt that Trump subscribes to that, and takes credit on behalf of his teams.
    that's probably true. one should always remind themselves that there are smarter people out there then yourself. However, smarter does not translate to an understanding of the greater good.
    Where in the Constitution does it mandate morality and/or a humanitarian bent at a politician's core? It has been anecdotally shown that his honesty is questionable (at best), but I thought your question was directly about whether the Constitution could lead to Trump's removal. I figured any other topic you had (like the immorality of Trump) would be covered by one of the seven other Trump-related threads you opened in rapid succession.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Options
    vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USA Posts: 3,426
    Yes
    ^^it doesn't, but it does seem to vaguely require that politicians be mostly free of conflicts of interest. i will admit that I have few facts to substantiate the numerous conflicts of interest ESP might have. I can only point you towards the allegations. I believe Elizabeth Warren et al. is looking into some of this from a more legal perspective.
  • Options
    vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USA Posts: 3,426
    Yes
    if you believe that rich business men are smart and know how to make money, you are probably right. If you believe those same people give a shit about you, then let's talk.
  • Options
    benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 8,938
    edited December 2016
    vaggar99 said:

    if you believe that rich business men are smart and know how to make money, you are probably right. If you believe those same people give a shit about you, then let's talk.

    I believe you're completely misunderstanding me. I believe that your Constitution does not adequately mandate that a politician truly "give a shit about you". As I've said again and again, I believe that if you want Constitutional grounds for dismissal, then you'll need to find a Constitutional mandate which is violated by Trump. I also believe I will keep asking you for logic and you will keep avoiding the fact that you have presented none, and I believe you will continue on emotionally-fuelled and logic-void rants.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Options
    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,833
    vaggar99 said:

    ^^it doesn't, but it does seem to vaguely require that politicians be mostly free of conflicts of interest. i will admit that I have few facts to substantiate the numerous conflicts of interest ESP might have. I can only point you towards the allegations. I believe Elizabeth Warren et al. is looking into some of this from a more legal perspective.

    benjs said:

    vaggar99 said:

    if you believe that rich business men are smart and know how to make money, you are probably right. If you believe those same people give a shit about you, then let's talk.

    I believe you're completely misunderstanding me. I believe that your Constitution does not adequately mandate that a politician truly "give a shit about you". As I've said again and again, I believe that if you want Constitutional grounds for dismissal, then you'll need to find a Constitutional mandate which is violated by Trump. I also believe I will keep asking you for logic and you will keep avoiding the fact that you have presented none, and I believe you will continue on emotionally-fuelled and logic-void rants.
    to be fair benjs, vagar conceded he has no actual evidence, as I have underlined above.
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Options
    benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 8,938

    vaggar99 said:

    ^^it doesn't, but it does seem to vaguely require that politicians be mostly free of conflicts of interest. i will admit that I have few facts to substantiate the numerous conflicts of interest ESP might have. I can only point you towards the allegations. I believe Elizabeth Warren et al. is looking into some of this from a more legal perspective.

    benjs said:

    vaggar99 said:

    if you believe that rich business men are smart and know how to make money, you are probably right. If you believe those same people give a shit about you, then let's talk.

    I believe you're completely misunderstanding me. I believe that your Constitution does not adequately mandate that a politician truly "give a shit about you". As I've said again and again, I believe that if you want Constitutional grounds for dismissal, then you'll need to find a Constitutional mandate which is violated by Trump. I also believe I will keep asking you for logic and you will keep avoiding the fact that you have presented none, and I believe you will continue on emotionally-fuelled and logic-void rants.
    to be fair benjs, vagar conceded he has no actual evidence, as I have underlined above.
    Fair enough... I have a bad habit of beating a dead horse. Sorry vaggar! My intention is only to see if you could produce meaningful legal evidence. I like Trump about as little as vaggar, I just think we all need to be pragmatic about how to get rid of him.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Options
    vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USA Posts: 3,426
    Yes
    apparently E. Warren's inquiry has more to do with T's travel expenses during the transition. I don't know if anyone is looking seriously into the allegations that was making deals with the Japanese and Taiwanese govts in regards to his business interests in those countries.
    politicususa.com/2016/11/23/elizabeth-warren-calls-federal-investigation-taxpayer-funds-trump-transition.html
  • Options
    vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USA Posts: 3,426
    Yes
    benjs said:

    vaggar99 said:

    ^^it doesn't, but it does seem to vaguely require that politicians be mostly free of conflicts of interest. i will admit that I have few facts to substantiate the numerous conflicts of interest ESP might have. I can only point you towards the allegations. I believe Elizabeth Warren et al. is looking into some of this from a more legal perspective.

    benjs said:

    vaggar99 said:

    if you believe that rich business men are smart and know how to make money, you are probably right. If you believe those same people give a shit about you, then let's talk.

    I believe you're completely misunderstanding me. I believe that your Constitution does not adequately mandate that a politician truly "give a shit about you". As I've said again and again, I believe that if you want Constitutional grounds for dismissal, then you'll need to find a Constitutional mandate which is violated by Trump. I also believe I will keep asking you for logic and you will keep avoiding the fact that you have presented none, and I believe you will continue on emotionally-fuelled and logic-void rants.
    to be fair benjs, vagar conceded he has no actual evidence, as I have underlined above.
    Fair enough... I have a bad habit of beating a dead horse. Sorry vaggar! My intention is only to see if you could produce meaningful legal evidence. I like Trump about as little as vaggar, I just think we all need to be pragmatic about how to get rid of him.
    its cool...you are definitely pushing me to keep looking for the 'evidence'.
  • Options
    vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USA Posts: 3,426
    edited December 2016
  • Options
    ^^^
    It's a good deal if you can get it right?
    The constitution of the Americans protects them.
Sign In or Register to comment.