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Talking on the phone and driving....
Go Beavers
Posts: 8,696
The National Transportation Safety Board is urging states to ban talking on the phone while driving, even with hands free devices. No states have an outright ban as they allow for hands free usage. What do you think?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/14/technology/federal-panel-urges-cellphone-ban-for-drivers.html?_r=2&hp
A federal agency on Tuesday called for a ban on all cellphone use by drivers — the most far-reaching such recommendation to date — saying its decision was based on a decade of investigations into distraction-related accidents, as well as growing concerns that powerful mobile devices are giving drivers even more reasons to look away from the road.
As part of its recommendation, the National Transportation Safety Board is urging states to ban drivers from using hands-free devices, including wireless headsets. No state now outlaws such activity, but the board said that drivers faced serious risks from talking on wireless headsets, just as they do by taking a hand off the wheel to hold a phone to their ear.
And Deborah Hersman, chairwoman of the N.T.S.B., an independent federal agency responsible for promoting traffic safety and investigating accidents, said the concern was heightened by increasingly powerful phones that people can use to e-mail, watch movies and play games.
“Every year, new devices are being released,” she said. “People are tempted to update their Facebook page, they are tempted to tweet, as if sitting at a desk. But they are driving a car.”
The agency based its recommendation on evidence from its investigation of numerous crashes in which electronic distraction was a major contributing factor.
Ms. Hersman said she understood that this recommendation would be unwelcome in some circles, given the number of drivers who talk and text. But she compared distracted driving to drunken driving and even smoking, which required wholesale cultural shifts to change behavior.
“It’s going to be very unpopular with some people,” she said. “We’re not here to win a popularity contest. We’re here to do the right thing. This is a difficult recommendation, but it’s the right recommendation and it’s time.”
The agency’s recommendation is nonbinding, meaning that states are not required to adopt such a ban. And it will likely be frowned upon by state lawmakers makers who are loath to infuriate constituents who have grown accustomed to using their device behind the wheel.
But, the recommendation may also provide cover for legislators, safety advocates and others who support such a broad-based ban. Many polls show that while people continue to use their devices behind the wheel, they also widely consider such behavior to be extremely dangerous.
The ban is also noteworthy because it is the first call by a federal agency to end the practice completely, rather than the partial ban that some legislators have put in place by allowing hands-free talking.
State Senator Joe Simitian of California, who succeeded in getting a law passed in 2006 that bans drivers there from talking on a hand-held phone, called the board’s recommendation “a wake-up call about the dangers of distracted driving.”
Yet, he also said he doubted it would achieve the desired result because it was unlikely that legislators in California or elsewhere would be able to pass such a ban. Mr. Simitian noted that he spent five years trying to push a ban on hand-held devices, and faced intense opposition from the phone industry.
“It’s a political nonstarter,” he said, adding that he would not attempt to propose a total ban on drivers using their devices. “I don’t believe you’ll see such a ban in my lifetime.” For all his skepticism, though, he acknowledged that political winds could shift. “A decade ago, people didn’t think we’d have a hands-free law in California. Only time will tell.”
Nine states now ban the use of hand-held phones, and 35 states ban texting by drivers, according to the Governors Highway Safety Association, which represents state traffic agencies. The group’s executive director, Barbara Harsha, called the N.T.S.B. recommendation “courageous” and said it would prompt the group to reconsider its policy, which calls for banning drivers from texting but not talking on the phone.
“People may not be ready for that,” she said of such a ban. “But there will certainly be discussion about it.”
Many mobile phone companies dropped their opposition over the last decade to any restrictions on the use of phones in cars, and have in recent years joined calls to ban texting while driving. In a statement, CTIA, the cellular telephone industry trade group, said it deferred to states about whether to enforce such bans.
A complete ban on phone use by drivers would have enormous impact on many car makers that are offering integrated hands-free, voice-activated systems that allow drivers to talk and do other tasks, like calling up their phone directory.
The Alliance for Automobile Manufacturers, a trade group for the industry, said in a statement that it was reviewing the N.T.S.B. recommendations. But it also defended the integrated systems, saying they allow drivers to keep their hands on the wheel and eyes on the road while they remain connected.
“What we do know is that digital technology has created a connected culture in the United States and it’s forever changed our society: consumers always expect to have access to technology; so managing technology is the solution,” the alliance said in a statement.
Ms. Hersman, the chairwoman of the N.T.S.B., said the safety concerns were not just about keeping hands on the wheel and eyes on the road, but also about making sure people focus on the act of driving.
“It’s about cognitive distraction. It’s about not being engaged at the task at hand,” she said, adding: “Lives are being lost in the blink of an eye. You can’t take it back, you can’t have a do over, and you can’t rewind.”
The issue is gaining greater internationally, too.
Last year, Ban Ki-moon, secretary general of the United Nations, called for an end to the culture of multitasking behind the wheel. Already, 30 countries have some limitations on the use of phones by drivers, including complete bans in Germany and Portugal, said Bella Dinh-Zarr, road safety director of international road safety with the FIA Foundation, a road safety advocacy group.
Because of the growing research and concern about the issue, she said, “More and more countries are going to be looking at it.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/14/technology/federal-panel-urges-cellphone-ban-for-drivers.html?_r=2&hp
A federal agency on Tuesday called for a ban on all cellphone use by drivers — the most far-reaching such recommendation to date — saying its decision was based on a decade of investigations into distraction-related accidents, as well as growing concerns that powerful mobile devices are giving drivers even more reasons to look away from the road.
As part of its recommendation, the National Transportation Safety Board is urging states to ban drivers from using hands-free devices, including wireless headsets. No state now outlaws such activity, but the board said that drivers faced serious risks from talking on wireless headsets, just as they do by taking a hand off the wheel to hold a phone to their ear.
And Deborah Hersman, chairwoman of the N.T.S.B., an independent federal agency responsible for promoting traffic safety and investigating accidents, said the concern was heightened by increasingly powerful phones that people can use to e-mail, watch movies and play games.
“Every year, new devices are being released,” she said. “People are tempted to update their Facebook page, they are tempted to tweet, as if sitting at a desk. But they are driving a car.”
The agency based its recommendation on evidence from its investigation of numerous crashes in which electronic distraction was a major contributing factor.
Ms. Hersman said she understood that this recommendation would be unwelcome in some circles, given the number of drivers who talk and text. But she compared distracted driving to drunken driving and even smoking, which required wholesale cultural shifts to change behavior.
“It’s going to be very unpopular with some people,” she said. “We’re not here to win a popularity contest. We’re here to do the right thing. This is a difficult recommendation, but it’s the right recommendation and it’s time.”
The agency’s recommendation is nonbinding, meaning that states are not required to adopt such a ban. And it will likely be frowned upon by state lawmakers makers who are loath to infuriate constituents who have grown accustomed to using their device behind the wheel.
But, the recommendation may also provide cover for legislators, safety advocates and others who support such a broad-based ban. Many polls show that while people continue to use their devices behind the wheel, they also widely consider such behavior to be extremely dangerous.
The ban is also noteworthy because it is the first call by a federal agency to end the practice completely, rather than the partial ban that some legislators have put in place by allowing hands-free talking.
State Senator Joe Simitian of California, who succeeded in getting a law passed in 2006 that bans drivers there from talking on a hand-held phone, called the board’s recommendation “a wake-up call about the dangers of distracted driving.”
Yet, he also said he doubted it would achieve the desired result because it was unlikely that legislators in California or elsewhere would be able to pass such a ban. Mr. Simitian noted that he spent five years trying to push a ban on hand-held devices, and faced intense opposition from the phone industry.
“It’s a political nonstarter,” he said, adding that he would not attempt to propose a total ban on drivers using their devices. “I don’t believe you’ll see such a ban in my lifetime.” For all his skepticism, though, he acknowledged that political winds could shift. “A decade ago, people didn’t think we’d have a hands-free law in California. Only time will tell.”
Nine states now ban the use of hand-held phones, and 35 states ban texting by drivers, according to the Governors Highway Safety Association, which represents state traffic agencies. The group’s executive director, Barbara Harsha, called the N.T.S.B. recommendation “courageous” and said it would prompt the group to reconsider its policy, which calls for banning drivers from texting but not talking on the phone.
“People may not be ready for that,” she said of such a ban. “But there will certainly be discussion about it.”
Many mobile phone companies dropped their opposition over the last decade to any restrictions on the use of phones in cars, and have in recent years joined calls to ban texting while driving. In a statement, CTIA, the cellular telephone industry trade group, said it deferred to states about whether to enforce such bans.
A complete ban on phone use by drivers would have enormous impact on many car makers that are offering integrated hands-free, voice-activated systems that allow drivers to talk and do other tasks, like calling up their phone directory.
The Alliance for Automobile Manufacturers, a trade group for the industry, said in a statement that it was reviewing the N.T.S.B. recommendations. But it also defended the integrated systems, saying they allow drivers to keep their hands on the wheel and eyes on the road while they remain connected.
“What we do know is that digital technology has created a connected culture in the United States and it’s forever changed our society: consumers always expect to have access to technology; so managing technology is the solution,” the alliance said in a statement.
Ms. Hersman, the chairwoman of the N.T.S.B., said the safety concerns were not just about keeping hands on the wheel and eyes on the road, but also about making sure people focus on the act of driving.
“It’s about cognitive distraction. It’s about not being engaged at the task at hand,” she said, adding: “Lives are being lost in the blink of an eye. You can’t take it back, you can’t have a do over, and you can’t rewind.”
The issue is gaining greater internationally, too.
Last year, Ban Ki-moon, secretary general of the United Nations, called for an end to the culture of multitasking behind the wheel. Already, 30 countries have some limitations on the use of phones by drivers, including complete bans in Germany and Portugal, said Bella Dinh-Zarr, road safety director of international road safety with the FIA Foundation, a road safety advocacy group.
Because of the growing research and concern about the issue, she said, “More and more countries are going to be looking at it.”
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
Rather they should make getting a 'Drivers License' much more difficult, like really make the driving test hard. If they implemented something like that, it would no doubt solve many future driving issues. Mainly by keeping drivers without the skill to handle a car off public roads.
Banning talking on cell phones while driving? That's hardly a remedy for safer roads. It's not even the number one main cause for accidents.
--
That's cool with me
Far too many texting accidents
If you'd give up the latter for the former, you don't deserve either.
I can't support it. I do support educating people about the dangers of both texting and talking on the phone while driving, however.
I know eh, in many cases people don't understand the danger of simply NOT looking at the road ahead.. It's really just common sense, You got it, or you don't.
i have 2 cars. one is an old blazer and one is a 2008 acura. i bought a bluetooth earpeice for use in the blazer, but that thing is so unreliable i stopped using it a few years ago. so i just don't use my phone in the blazer at all. i only use the blazer for my band gigs anyway so it is easy to drive that car 30 times a year with my phone off. the acura has bluetooth in the car that comes through the speakers. all of the controls (all 2 buttons) are on the steering wheel where the thumb overlaps the wheel. any numbers i would dial are saved on a voice command. i drive down the street, push a button with my thumb and say "call andy" and the phone rings from there. most times i do not make calls, but if the phone rings, i feel safe enough to push a button with my thumb to answer it.
i think the people that want a ban on all phone use have their hearts in the right place, but i don't even see how this is enforceable unless there is an accident and it is found that someone was on the phone at the time. or if someone drives past a cop and the cop sees them holding up a handset or something.
i think everyone needs to just be very responsible and very careful if you choose to talk on the phone and drive.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"With our thoughts we make the world"
i seriously think these days people are just too cavalier behind the wheel. just the other day here in sydney we had a fatal car crash where the mother swerved to avoid a slow moving street sweeper that was in her lane. she struck a car in the adjacent lane, bounced back into the street sweeper and now one of her daughters and the childs grandmother are dead. its very sad that this happened but i see too may people doing stupid things on the road.
i recall travelling along one of our motorways at 110km/h and a 4 wheel drive in the adjacent lane was acting irratically. finally got up the nerve to pass it and when i looked across the stupid idiot driver was txting. a short while later she came zooming up behind me and i thought youve got to be kidding f you think im gonna move over for you... i was already a couple of kms over the speedlimit. i just looked at it as saving her fool life by getting her to slow down for a bit.
anyhoo dont drive and txt, the distraction isnt worth it. and it certainly isnt the only distraction one faces while driving.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
and what about my personal liberty NOT to sideswiped by some idiot whose total attention isnt on the road and whats around them as it should be? driving isnt a right, its a privilege.. people need to know that...and appreciate it.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
that's factually inaccurate.
The theory on the difference between talking to someone on the phone and talking to someone in the car is that the person in the car is incorporating the task of driving along with the conversation. They allow for pauses and shifting in focus depending on what's going on in the road. They also are going to point out things going on in the environment. If your going through an iffy intersection or you're not sure to go left or right, they aren't going to ask you at that point to make a commitment with regard to something at work, etc.
I agree that getting a license should be more difficult. In '09 it was estimated that 24,000 people were injured in cell phone as a distraction car crashes (in the U.S.) and just under 1000 people died. These are likely lower than actual, too, because the number is from it being reported that a driver was distracted by talking on the phone.
It's not the main cause for accidents, but still significant.
That's part of the problem. People think it's "other drivers" that suck, and therefore they think they're skilled enough to talk on the phone/text.
Do you lose liberty because it's illegal to drink and drive? It's just as dangerous to talk on the phone and drive. There's plenty of laws surrounding driving, and this would be one more to adapt to new technology.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Agree
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
technically, yes.
New Hampshire should update it to 'Give me Liberty AND give me death'!
I'm a fervent advocate of civil liberties, but that's just silly.
When people are operating 3000 lb death machines, there has to be rules.
That said, I don't think it should be illegal to use a phone when driving. Texting/facebooking, etc... that's just stupid and should be illegal.
I hate being on the telephone. I dont get it. People with shit in their ears like bluetooths and the like.
Im like any insane person could nowadays walk around with a dead cellphone and speak into it, nobody would know.
So what's the story, morning glory?
"With our thoughts we make the world"
I'm not sure you the intent of my post was understood. I don't think it is a good idea to talk/text while driving however I think that if laws are passed banning such things I believe it is not necessarily because big brother gives a shit about you or is trying to take personal liberties from you but because the corporations that fund politicians find these types of laws help their bottom line.
"With our thoughts we make the world"
In the former, there isn't any chance that their actions are going to hurt anyone else. So yeah, it shouldn't be illegal.
In the latter, the actions of the texter puts everyone else on the road in danger. Like drinking and driving, it is very dangerous and shouldn't be allowed. It is unfortunate that we have to tell other IDIOTS how to behave while driving 3,000 lb death machines at 70mph, but we do.
There obviously has to be a line drawn where you allow some activities that *could* be dangerous, like adjusting your radio, drinking your water, not putting your hands at 10/2, adjusting your balls, etc. I think texting while driving goes past that line.
Exactly!
It's one thing to restrict your liberties when the only person you're endangering is yourself. It's a completely different matter when your stupidity endangers the life of another person. Then again, if you do decide to ride your bike without a helmet, I don't think your health or motor insurance provider should have to cover you for any injuries you sustain. Why should the premiums of other motorists go up because you are being an idiot?
As for hands free devices; my car has a built in hands free device but I can honestly say that being on the phone while driving is still quite distracting, hands free or not. Still, I don't think it's any worse than drinking your coffee while trying to downshift from 5th to 3rd. I'm all for laws that limit the use of handsets while driving, but I think that it should be limited to that.
If you think your civil liberties are more important than an act that DRAMATICALLY increases the chances that you're going to kill someone, there is a definition for that: sociopath
Obviously, texting while driving fits that description. Talking on the phone? I don't think so... but if there is proof to the contrary then I won't do it any longer.
I'm a big free market / civil liberties guy, but when you operate a car the bottom line is you have to follow some rules that society deems to be necessary. It sucks that we have to rely on the government to enforce these rules... but people suck, so we do.
Here's links to several articles and data:
Here's the reference from my first post about 1000 deaths a year:
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811379.pdf
Here's links to two decent articles:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080531084958.htm
http://www.economist.com/node/18561075?story_id=18561075
And a research article:
http://www.distraction.gov/download/research-pdf/carnegie-mellon.pdf
And for Mythbuster geeks:
http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbusters-cell-phone-vs-drunk-driving-minimyth.html
It's too bad the law allows for hands-free devices, because that sends the completely wrong message, in that the distraction is due to driving with one hand. That's like saying people with one arm shouldn't be allowed to drive.
I'm not trying to be a twat with all this. I just think, in general, we should take driving more seriously. Unless you're an IV drug user, base jumper, or crop duster, it's probably the most dangerous thing you do.
holding a phone to your head or using a hands free device while talking on the phone is no different than talking to them ppl in your car. as a matter of fact, talking to someone who in present in a moving car is more dangerous than if they were on the phone with the driver.
passengers interacting w/ drivers...horrific
drivers using a communication device...not very bright when not watching the road...and can be horrific.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
this presents another problem; some of us ARE able to drive safely while talking to others, whether it be in person, on bluetooth, or on the phone. I know that I'm safer than 99.9% of the drivers out there regardless if I'm driving without any potential distractions or if I've got a two year old throwing shit at my head while talking on the phone.
I shouldn't have to follow some bullshit rules just because other people are shitty drivers. Maybe it should be specific to the INDIVIDUAL? What a crazy thought... basing rules and laws on the individual rather than a subset of the population. How about a driving test that gives you special privileges if you're a good driver that isn't distracted by a phone conversation?
Just throwing this stuff out there. I think once you outlaw talking on the phone you start the whole "slippery slope" thing and next thing you know you won't be able to put stereos in your car... or it'll be like "I Robot" and the cards will do the driving for us.
Another thing... what about driving with kids? Trust me, driving with a two year old is much more distracting than a phone conversation.
agree on all counts.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Talking to people on the phone is different than talking to people in the car. Passengers in the car take a more active role in what the driver is doing, and they also allow for the driver to put more focus at the task at hand when necessary. And here's an interesting quote from the science daily article:
“Either people are used to face-to-face communication or, when they engage in a language task, they create a mental representation in their mind and place the voice somewhere in space,” Almor said. “In this case, that space is in front of them, which suggests that it may be easier to have all things that require attention occupy the same space.”
It's an interesting point, because in the few times I have spoke on the phone while driving, I can tell that my attention was more "tunnel like", which makes sense as is pointed out in the quote. My brain was creating a visual representation of the conversation I was having on the phone directly in front of me, but my brain was also trying to focus on driving at the same time, which is also happening right in front of me.
People think that they are able to talk on the phone and drive safely, but they're not. I'm sure if you participated in a simulation that you would do as poorly as everyone else.
The "slippery slope" argument doesn't really hold up in reality. Driving with kids can be distracting, but see the point about having conversations with people in the car vs. not in the car. Plus, you can ignore a two year old.