2017-2018 NHL Playoffs

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  • eeriepadaveeeriepadave West Chester, PAPosts: 29,202
    bring back the indoor roller hockey league from the 90's :lol:

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    8/28/98- Camden, NJ
    10/31/09- Philly
    5/21/10- NYC
    9/2/12- Philly, PA
    7/19/13- Wrigley
    10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
    10/21/13- Philly, PA
    10/22/13- Philly, PA
    10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
    Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly
    Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly
  • drivingrldrivingrl Posts: 1,445
    I am so sad about this lockout. :(

    Somebody hug me. I need hugs. :(
    drivingrl: "Will I ever get to meet Gwen Stefani?"
    kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.

    Next!"
  • Empty GlassEmpty Glass In Rob's shedPosts: 12,318
    Nice hat trick Bettman, something to be proud of

    I'll be at a ton of Hershey Bear games, I'll get my fix that way
    I've met Rob

    DEGENERATE FUK

    This place is dead

    "THERE ARE NO CLIQUES, ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T JOIN THE FUN" - Empty circa 2015

    "Kfsbho&$thncds" - F Me In the Brain - circa 2015
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,552
    this is the thing with these negotiations ... both sides have a "realistic" target and threshold for what they are willing to accept ... why not be a little more honest and not start somewhere absurd ...

    i mean 43% share of revenues!? ... how is that remotely fair? ... also, if the owners are gonna lock out ... they should pay all their staff during that time as if the schedule was on ...
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 17,121
    Thank goodness for minor league hockey.
  • Indifference71Indifference71 ChicagoPosts: 12,751
    polaris_x wrote:
    this is the thing with these negotiations ... both sides have a "realistic" target and threshold for what they are willing to accept ... why not be a little more honest and not start somewhere absurd ...

    i mean 43% share of revenues!? ... how is that remotely fair? ... also, if the owners are gonna lock out ... they should pay all their staff during that time as if the schedule was on ...



    I think the owners increased their offer to 46% on their latest proposal. But even that is ridiculous. How do you expect the players to take a 10% decrease when the NHL had record revenue last year??? Owners have to get their revenue sharing worked out...plain and simple.
    6/18/03, 5/17/06, 6/30/06, 8/5/07, 6/22/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 5/7/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 7/19/13, 11/21/13, 11/23/13, 11/24/13, 10/17/14, 10/20/14, 4/18/16, 4/20/16, 5/2/16, 5/3/16, 8/20/16, 8/22/16
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,552
    I think the owners increased their offer to 46% on their latest proposal. But even that is ridiculous. How do you expect the players to take a 10% decrease when the NHL had record revenue last year??? Owners have to get their revenue sharing worked out...plain and simple.

    yeah ... if the majority of teams are making money and it's these friggin' markets like phoenix and tampa that aren't ... well, who's fault is it that they are there!? ... the owners want the cash for expansion teams and then ask the players to make concessions cuz it didn't work ...
  • Indifference71Indifference71 ChicagoPosts: 12,751
    polaris_x wrote:
    I think the owners increased their offer to 46% on their latest proposal. But even that is ridiculous. How do you expect the players to take a 10% decrease when the NHL had record revenue last year??? Owners have to get their revenue sharing worked out...plain and simple.

    yeah ... if the majority of teams are making money and it's these friggin' markets like phoenix and tampa that aren't ... well, who's fault is it that they are there!? ... the owners want the cash for expansion teams and then ask the players to make concessions cuz it didn't work ...


    Exactly. Bettman has fucked up this league so badly. These small market team are crying because they are losing money and the big market teams who do well don't want to share their profits with them. What a mess. Unfortunately, I think this is going to be a long lockout.
    6/18/03, 5/17/06, 6/30/06, 8/5/07, 6/22/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 5/7/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 7/19/13, 11/21/13, 11/23/13, 11/24/13, 10/17/14, 10/20/14, 4/18/16, 4/20/16, 5/2/16, 5/3/16, 8/20/16, 8/22/16
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    I'm not the biggest Bettman fan out there...I fail to see how he really is responsible for this mess. He takes his Marching orders from the owners. Right? If anything the owners and players are responsible. The owners want a salary cap, more revenue, restriction on the length of contract and so on because they don't trust each other. The players want all these goodies because for the most part they are greedy and very few have loyalty...they just jet off to the highest bidder, which is fine, but don't hide behind some bullshit excuse and call it what it is.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • Indifference71Indifference71 ChicagoPosts: 12,751
    lukin2006 wrote:
    I'm not the biggest Bettman fan out there...I fail to see how he really is responsible for this mess. He takes his Marching orders from the owners. Right? If anything the owners and players are responsible. The owners want a salary cap, more revenue, restriction on the length of contract and so on because they don't trust each other. The players want all these goodies because for the most part they are greedy and very few have loyalty...they just jet off to the highest bidder, which is fine, but don't hide behind some bullshit excuse and call it what it is.


    There already is a salary cap. The owners want all these rules to pretty much save them from themselves. No one forces them to give out these ridiculous 12-13 year contracts. If they don't like the contracts, then don't fucking sign guys to them!!!!!

    Not saying Bettman is entirely responsible for this lockout. But him forcing hockey into these shitty markets that can't draw fans and these teams losing a shitload of money sure hasn't helped things.
    6/18/03, 5/17/06, 6/30/06, 8/5/07, 6/22/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 5/7/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 7/19/13, 11/21/13, 11/23/13, 11/24/13, 10/17/14, 10/20/14, 4/18/16, 4/20/16, 5/2/16, 5/3/16, 8/20/16, 8/22/16
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 9,562
    The problem is, more than half the teams lose money, many of them lose a pile of money.

    Not even spending to the cap, the Sabres sell out every game and lose money, especially if they miss the playoffs... (tickets arent cheap either)
    Pittsburgh is the same way.

    The NHL wants to roll the responsibility onto the players, by hitting a reset button. The problem is, the cap will continue to creep up and teams will continue to be under water.

    The PA and owners need to come up with a good system that benefits everyone, makes every team sustainable, and allows for the league to grow.
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    polaris_x wrote:
    I think the owners increased their offer to 46% on their latest proposal. But even that is ridiculous. How do you expect the players to take a 10% decrease when the NHL had record revenue last year??? Owners have to get their revenue sharing worked out...plain and simple.

    yeah ... if the majority of teams are making money and it's these friggin' markets like phoenix and tampa that aren't ... well, who's fault is it that they are there!? ... the owners want the cash for expansion teams and then ask the players to make concessions cuz it didn't work ...


    I agree hockey doesn't belong in those markets...but on the flip side of that, the NHL could easily just fold Phoenix and bought Atlanta and folded them and then that 44 less players in the league, in the union, making a hefty salary. It's in the players interest as well.

    However, it would be a better league with no Dallas, Phoenix, Tampa, Florida and maybe 4 other teams.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • drivingrldrivingrl Posts: 1,445
    As someone who can't math, I found this opinion piece to be helpful:

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=404989&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
    drivingrl: "Will I ever get to meet Gwen Stefani?"
    kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.

    Next!"
  • drivingrldrivingrl Posts: 1,445
    edited September 2012
    lukin2006 wrote:
    However, it would be a better league with no Dallas, Phoenix, Tampa, Florida and maybe 4 other teams.

    HEY, watch it!! :( :o
    drivingrl: "Will I ever get to meet Gwen Stefani?"
    kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.

    Next!"
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,552
    lukin2006 wrote:
    I'm not the biggest Bettman fan out there...I fail to see how he really is responsible for this mess. He takes his Marching orders from the owners. Right? If anything the owners and players are responsible. The owners want a salary cap, more revenue, restriction on the length of contract and so on because they don't trust each other. The players want all these goodies because for the most part they are greedy and very few have loyalty...they just jet off to the highest bidder, which is fine, but don't hide behind some bullshit excuse and call it what it is.

    he is responsible because he controls the owners much like stern controls the nba owners ... i'm not gonna say the players are altruistic here but hockey is a business and they are treated as such ... if players can be traded and sent down to minors and expected to play hurt ... well, guess what ... it's a two-way street ...

    in a period of record revenues and high growth - the owners are asking for the world like things are on the brink ... there has to be a partnership here ...
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    lukin2006 wrote:
    I'm not the biggest Bettman fan out there...I fail to see how he really is responsible for this mess. He takes his Marching orders from the owners. Right? If anything the owners and players are responsible. The owners want a salary cap, more revenue, restriction on the length of contract and so on because they don't trust each other. The players want all these goodies because for the most part they are greedy and very few have loyalty...they just jet off to the highest bidder, which is fine, but don't hide behind some bullshit excuse and call it what it is.


    There already is a salary cap. The owners want all these rules to pretty much save them from themselves. No one forces them to give out these ridiculous 12-13 year contracts. If they don't like the contracts, then don't fucking sign guys to them!!!!!

    Not saying Bettman is entirely responsible for this lockout. But him forcing hockey into these shitty markets that can't draw fans and these teams losing a shitload of money sure hasn't helped things.

    I agree the owners want protection from themselves...no doubt...but maybe some of these players like Suter, Weber and Parisse could show a little loyalty to teams that drafted spent $$$ on there development, etc. I agree with the owners not wanting to allow free agency until the 10 year mark.

    I think if people check the numbers they'll see the game has grown leaps and bounds under his leadership, again no Bettman fan, but he takes his orders from the owners, i'm pretty sure he doesn't tell them what to do.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • Indifference71Indifference71 ChicagoPosts: 12,751
    MayDay10 wrote:
    The problem is, more than half the teams lose money, many of them lose a pile of money.

    Not even spending to the cap, the Sabres sell out every game and lose money, especially if they miss the playoffs... (tickets arent cheap either)
    Pittsburgh is the same way.

    The NHL wants to roll the responsibility onto the players, by hitting a reset button. The problem is, the cap will continue to creep up and teams will continue to be under water.

    The PA and owners need to come up with a good system that benefits everyone, makes every team sustainable, and allows for the league to grow.


    That's fucked up that Buffalo sells out every game and still can't make money. Is that because the players take too much money or is it a poorly run organization??

    Like you said, they have to come up with a system that benefits everyone. The problem is what the owners are proposing seems to be a system where they are guaranteed to make money. It shouldn't be like that.
    6/18/03, 5/17/06, 6/30/06, 8/5/07, 6/22/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 5/7/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 7/19/13, 11/21/13, 11/23/13, 11/24/13, 10/17/14, 10/20/14, 4/18/16, 4/20/16, 5/2/16, 5/3/16, 8/20/16, 8/22/16
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    polaris_x wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:
    I'm not the biggest Bettman fan out there...I fail to see how he really is responsible for this mess. He takes his Marching orders from the owners. Right? If anything the owners and players are responsible. The owners want a salary cap, more revenue, restriction on the length of contract and so on because they don't trust each other. The players want all these goodies because for the most part they are greedy and very few have loyalty...they just jet off to the highest bidder, which is fine, but don't hide behind some bullshit excuse and call it what it is.

    he is responsible because he controls the owners much like stern controls the nba owners ... i'm not gonna say the players are altruistic here but hockey is a business and they are treated as such ... if players can be traded and sent down to minors and expected to play hurt ... well, guess what ... it's a two-way street ...

    in a period of record revenues and high growth - the owners are asking for the world like things are on the brink ... there has to be a partnership here ...

    Yeah he controls the owners...got proof.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 9,562
    That is a terrible idea, IMO.

    The league becomes weaker if you fold teams. You give up the TV footprint (which is very important to TV & Sponsors), and you also give off the perception that the league is weak and second-rate.

    It is also a myth that the league is watered down with 30 teams. The participation in hockey globally is way more than 20-30 years ago. If anything, the problem is too much skill, efficiency, and the perfection of defensive play/systems.

    I believe we will see a Toronto II, Seattle, and Quebec City. I think there will be 1 more relocation and 2 expansion
  • Indifference71Indifference71 ChicagoPosts: 12,751
    lukin2006 wrote:
    I agree the owners want protection from themselves...no doubt...but maybe some of these players like Suter, Weber and Parisse could show a little loyalty to teams that drafted spent $$$ on there development, etc. I agree with the owners not wanting to allow free agency until the 10 year mark.

    I think if people check the numbers they'll see the game has grown leaps and bounds under his leadership, again no Bettman fan, but he takes his orders from the owners, i'm pretty sure he doesn't tell them what to do.


    The loyalty thing is a bunch of horseshit. If there's a team out there willing to pay you a ton more money, you'd be a fool not to take it. 10 year mak for free agency is pretty ridiculous if you ask me. To not be a free agent until 28-29 years old at the earliest is a bit much.

    The game has definitely grown, but this will be the 3rd work stoppage under Bettman. Sure, he takes his orders from the owners but I don't believe for one second that he has no influence at all.
    6/18/03, 5/17/06, 6/30/06, 8/5/07, 6/22/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 5/7/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 7/19/13, 11/21/13, 11/23/13, 11/24/13, 10/17/14, 10/20/14, 4/18/16, 4/20/16, 5/2/16, 5/3/16, 8/20/16, 8/22/16
  • Indifference71Indifference71 ChicagoPosts: 12,751
    MayDay10 wrote:
    I believe we will see a Toronto II, Seattle, and Quebec City. I think there will be 1 more relocation and 2 expansion


    Expansion?!?!?!?!?!?!? No way in hell there is any expansion anytime soon. I could see 3 relocations to the cities that you mentioned.
    6/18/03, 5/17/06, 6/30/06, 8/5/07, 6/22/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 5/7/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 7/19/13, 11/21/13, 11/23/13, 11/24/13, 10/17/14, 10/20/14, 4/18/16, 4/20/16, 5/2/16, 5/3/16, 8/20/16, 8/22/16
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 9,562
    MayDay10 wrote:
    The problem is, more than half the teams lose money, many of them lose a pile of money.

    Not even spending to the cap, the Sabres sell out every game and lose money, especially if they miss the playoffs... (tickets arent cheap either)
    Pittsburgh is the same way.

    The NHL wants to roll the responsibility onto the players, by hitting a reset button. The problem is, the cap will continue to creep up and teams will continue to be under water.

    The PA and owners need to come up with a good system that benefits everyone, makes every team sustainable, and allows for the league to grow.


    That's fucked up that Buffalo sells out every game and still can't make money. Is that because the players take too much money or is it a poorly run organization??

    Like you said, they have to come up with a system that benefits everyone. The problem is what the owners are proposing seems to be a system where they are guaranteed to make money. It shouldn't be like that.

    Well they do spend to the cap.
    The corporate presence is not available for top dollar suite and sponsorship. The commercials you see on the telecasts are a joke. We get very high ratings, but the population pool is much, much lower than Boston, NYC, Philly, Chicago.

    The current owner doesnt mind losing money to stay competitive, but if he leaves, there is no long-term viability
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,552
    lukin2006 wrote:
    Yeah he controls the owners...got proof.

    well ... considering the teams that are primarily losing money are his idea ... and that instead of moving phoenix to a better market - he made the league buy the franchise to continue this fiasco ... i'd say he controls the owners ...
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,552
    maybe there should be revenue sharing amongst the owners?
  • Indifference71Indifference71 ChicagoPosts: 12,751
    polaris_x wrote:
    maybe there should be revenue sharing amongst the owners?


    Thats what the players are proposing. Not sure if there is any type of revenue sharing system in place currently.
    6/18/03, 5/17/06, 6/30/06, 8/5/07, 6/22/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 5/7/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 7/19/13, 11/21/13, 11/23/13, 11/24/13, 10/17/14, 10/20/14, 4/18/16, 4/20/16, 5/2/16, 5/3/16, 8/20/16, 8/22/16
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 9,562
    polaris_x wrote:
    maybe there should be revenue sharing amongst the owners?


    Thats what the players are proposing. Not sure if there is any type of revenue sharing system in place currently.

    There is.

    It isnt that strong though, and a lot of rules. You have to hit attendance #'s, have to increase revenues/ticket prices from prior season, and a team like the Islanders cannot collect due to size of market
  • Bathgate66Bathgate66 Posts: 15,813
    We need a season !
    spread the money all around,
    and drop the fricking puck already
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  • Indifference71Indifference71 ChicagoPosts: 12,751
    MayDay10 wrote:
    There is.

    It isnt that strong though, and a lot of rules. You have to hit attendance #'s, have to increase revenues/ticket prices from prior season, and a team like the Islanders cannot collect due to size of market


    Yeah thats what I thought. I know the players proposal was a drastic change to the system. Pretty ridiculous that the Islanders can't collect just because of market size.
    6/18/03, 5/17/06, 6/30/06, 8/5/07, 6/22/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 5/7/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 7/19/13, 11/21/13, 11/23/13, 11/24/13, 10/17/14, 10/20/14, 4/18/16, 4/20/16, 5/2/16, 5/3/16, 8/20/16, 8/22/16
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    MayDay10 wrote:
    The problem is, more than half the teams lose money, many of them lose a pile of money.

    Not even spending to the cap, the Sabres sell out every game and lose money, especially if they miss the playoffs... (tickets arent cheap either)
    Pittsburgh is the same way.

    The NHL wants to roll the responsibility onto the players, by hitting a reset button. The problem is, the cap will continue to creep up and teams will continue to be under water.

    The PA and owners need to come up with a good system that benefits everyone, makes every team sustainable, and allows for the league to grow.


    That's fucked up that Buffalo sells out every game and still can't make money. Is that because the players take too much money or is it a poorly run organization??

    Like you said, they have to come up with a system that benefits everyone. The problem is what the owners are proposing seems to be a system where they are guaranteed to make money. It shouldn't be like that.

    If they don't make money, how are some of these teams to survive...I mean Buffalo losing money...thats crazy.

    These players also seem to want to make as much as NFL, NBA and MLB and the NHL is for the most part a gate driven sport...those other sports have good TV contracts and incredible merchandising sales.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    polaris_x wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:
    Yeah he controls the owners...got proof.

    well ... considering the teams that are primarily losing money are his idea ... and that instead of moving phoenix to a better market - he made the league buy the franchise to continue this fiasco ... i'd say he controls the owners ...

    where they going to move Phoenix to...the NHL market is saturated...I know everyone is in love with Winnipeg and they sell out and all...but I doubt staying 18 million below the cap will allow them to be competitive and will the sell out continue once the novelty wears off.

    The owners were in love with the expansion fee they were receiving...don't blame the salesman (Bettman) if your people didn't do their homework before putting teams in those markets...same as those owners who paid the fee...did they not put a business plan in place.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
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