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PJ/Bono/etc guilty of hypocricy?
Hugh Freaking Dillon
Posts: 14,010
Ok, here's the thread that we should have started before we highjacked the one about Bono liking The Fixer. Basically, the topic of musician philanthropy came up, and some feel it is hypocritical for someone rich to be spouting off about how regular folks should throw money at causes, while they sit in their mansions sipping out of gold goblets. Of course, this is my Coles Notes version. I'll post some comments from the other thread in a minute.
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Coles Notes?
"Bono's also in love with himself
I remember he used to go around asking better off countries to contrubte a few percent of their gdp to help out the worlds poor. Its a noble enough cause at its root.
But what got me, is for my Canadian government to do that.. they either have to borrow the money or raise taxes. Meaning the middle class would probably end up paying for it.
Bono doesn't live like the middle class, so the fact he's asking the middle class to pay for always irked me. If he was willing to live off the median salary of Canadian which I think is just under 50k/year.. I'd be all for it
I don't think he ever really understood where the money from, and that he's basically asking people less of them himself to foot the bill. So he talks the talk, but doesn't really lead by example.
at least his taste in music seems decent enough."
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is that like Spark Notes?
it's basically a "legal" form of cheat notes that you can buy at any book store that gives you the plot of any given literary novel without all the filler. It's touted as a study guide. Is this only in Canada? It's kind of a funny saying, too. When someone is droning on about something, you say "gimme the Coles Notes version".
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"Bono's a complicated figure, but lets not forget, a certain band we all love also does the same thing, Ed and the guys are rich beyond our wildest dreams, yet they do the same thing as Bono. The most righteous individuals, and these are my personal heroes people, are all just like Bono. Bruce, Bob Dylan, All of Rage Against the machine, and on and on.
That said, I do admit, Bono and U2 are guilty of rock star excess. Their shows are obviously extremely extravagent. And I am always reminded of an article from the 80's that talked about Bono and the guys, on a private jet, sipping champagne, discussing the pro's and cons of Castro. Thats the complicatedness of the band and of Bono."
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"what I think we are losing sight of here is not how much money these guys make, but how much awareness their celebrity can bring to worthy causes. it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, in my view, to cast these people as hypocrites (my word, I realize, not anyone else's) because they don't lay down all their money for the causes they support. That's not the point of what they are trying to do. Bill Gates himself could probably end world hunger, but if he does that, it won't fix the problem. The idea is to get humanity to band together for such things so similar issues can be dealt with in similar fashion-TOGETHER. Not to depend on the super wealthy to fix everything. "
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"I don't know. Is using one's position of power, whether it be through music, politics, religion or whatever, to persuade others to help your fellow man really such a bad thing? If there are people out there who have full access to the platform of the general masses then why not take advantage of that? I'll admit, Bono's a little full on himself, but then, he readily admits that as well. He's confident to be sure. But for all the humanitarian causes that Bono, or any other celeb asks people to support, I think it would be a fair assumption to say that the time and energy they put into putting the word out there and doing the research, is equal to, if not greater than what they are asking people to give, not to mention their own monetary support. But. This is just my bleeding heart opinion take it for what it's worth. And for the record, I haven't bought a U2 album since Achtung Baby but I do donate to the ONE campaign..."
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It's called Cliff Notes here in the states and I don't know if you just didn't spell it right or if "Cole Notes" is some weird Canadian version? lol
"My point is the OP is guilty of extreme hypocrisy, by not talking about PJ's wealth and their activism. If you are gonna talk about Bono's excesses, thats fine, but dont act like he is the only rock star who is rich who spouts off on political and social causes.
Dont get me wrong, I think its great ed and bono and all those guys use their fame to bring awareness to causes. But I think people are ignoring the hypocrisy of it all."
and now we're all up to speed.
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Coles Notes is what it's called. I honestly thought Cliff Notes was actually notes you wrote yourself, as in a cheat sheet. Coles Notes is professionally written analysis that you buy in a store.
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all my hard work copying and pasting gone to waste.
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I think they key difference, is I don't recally Mr. Vedder going to the head of our government and asking for a percentage of domestic revenue. Pearl Jam's supports when/where they can, under the radar, and they don't go telling us to donate, or trying to force us to donate to anyone.
Bono was actually asking for a percentage of countries GDP to cure world hunger. I think the cause is very noble. That money would come from taxes, taxes of which a majority comes from the middle class. So he's asking people who are less off then himself to donate.
It just seems off to me. Some people are supporting their families on 50k a year.. some people are better off with multiple 50k salaries. It depends on the person/family. But to ask a government to do that, without considering the consequences of people less of than yourself... its cocky.
I think it'd be better if he went after people instead of governments.. allow people who can afford it to donate.. I think sucking it through taxes is the wrong way to go.
Nope, Cliff Notes are small professionally written summaries you buy in the store. They have a yellow and black cover.
alright, so I guess it's the same, just different name. should I rename this thread??
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I'm not sure if I agree with you on this. World hunger is a worldwide problem that anyone who can afford to eat should be able to give something to help. The GDP that Bono was asking for was a small amount and when you divide that amount by the # of people living in the countries and their actual individual contribution, it works out to about $2.00 each. I think the major countries of the world could afford to ask their people to give $2.00. Also, by going about it through governments you ensure that everyone participates, whereas if you just ask people to give, most of the time they won't even though they can afford it.
For example, I see an advertisement on tv that is asking for money for starving kids in Africa. I feel bad for them and I think "I really should give some money to this organization." Then the ad ends and Ghost Hunters comes back on and I instantly forget. Now, if the president came on tv and said that the USA would be donating a certain amount of $ to Bono's cause and that it works out to each of us giving $2.00, I would have no problem with that. It's not egotistical for Bono to do what he is doing, it's admirable in my opinion.
we are all guilty of hypocricy
My gripe isn't that its a bad idea. It's that a guy who's f'in rich is telling people who are less off than him to give their money. I'm not arguing the idea of giving food too poor people, I'm arguing a rich guy telling middle class people to pay for it. Sure Bono/U2 donates, and its alot more then any of us could do, as their incomes are higher. But a guy who probably takes home a salary in the millions every year, and has millions in the bank, is asking people who live paycheque to paycheque to pay for his idea.
Am I the only one things Bono's a tool for doing that? I don't think his idea is bad. Feeding the poor is good. I think the fact he goes around asking people who make way less than he does, to pay for his idea, while he lives in luxury is retarded.
The one thing that made me donate in the last few years, was watching a series with Ewam McGregor and Charlie Boorman called Long Way Round (and a sequel called Long Way Down). They kind of went around the world on motorbikes. On the way they stopped at various unicef places and what not.
I had no idea Unicef did all this cool stuff (one example was they still help victims of chernobyl and their offspring). and cool stuff like that. I know Obi-Wan's got more cash in the bank then me. But he didn't have ask my goverment to force me to donate. I donated cause he stuck it on tv, and I thought it was a good cause.
Pearl Jam help's alot of organizations, but they don't go out saying everyone should be forced to donate. It'd be hypocritical as they live better then most people.
If Bono used his fame to promote the causes, run fundraisers, and raise awerness it doesn't bug me. It bugs me when he wants governments to take the cash from its citizens while he lives it up in his big f'in house.
Thats all. If the dude were really serious his own personal wealth could probably whipe out the debt of a few 3rd world countries, and he'd still have more left then I'll ever have.
Now, I understand U2 has always been over the top with the stage props and all, but couldn't they go on like a 'hunger relief' tour and hype it as a scaled down version of their normal shows? Say the costs went down from $750,000 to even $250,000 a day - then they could realistically donate $500,000 a day to help fight world hunger.
He makes us think about how we are living and how we CAN help those who need our assistance yet we sit in our homes and eat our McDonalds and watch CNN and say "what a shame" Man this guy takes so much backlash for absolutely no reason. Ed does exactly the same thing for the things he stands for..so does Bruce..and Bob Dylan..and Chris Martin..and whomever else has something to speak out about. Anyone who says "Bono sucks" or "shut up Boner" or whatever has exactly ZERO idea of who that man really is or how hard he works to help the worlds poor.
God...it seriously annoys me...its one thing to not be a fan of U2...its a totally and completely different thing to mock him or dispise him for doing good...oh and BTW...to the guy who said "Bono doesnt live like a middle class man" well no..he doesnt nor should he..but what you forget to mention is the tens of MILLIONS him and U2 have donated..lets see how many rock acts can say THAT
OH..JD Sal..U2 donated $30 million dollars to charity this year..it was a figure that leaked out from a reporter who dug deep and the band wasnt too thrilled to have it known cause they wanted it anonymous..now that $750,000 a day isnt to house the show..its what it costs them in trucks and salary...so there are people with jobs making good money because of this tour. Now I ask you...would thousands of people have these jobs IF U2 wasnt touring?
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Edge himself has admitted the hypocricy of their message vs how much they spend on touring and whatnot. He even said "I don't really have an answer to that". I was impressed that he didn't try to give some half-assed bullshit answer. He just said "you're right, I don't know". I found that quite noble.
I really think that U2 could do a "non-profit tour" or something like that, where they personally make no money. They just pay their crew and whatnot. Maybe do an acoustic tour or something so they don't have to use as much crew for it. But then they might argue that them touring helps hundreds of people to get work. So it's a bit of a rock and a hard place.
I think also, that Bono's message with a percentage of each country's GDP is that we are all one people, so we are all responsible to help out together, not just the super rich. Which I have to agree with. My wife and I make a meager living with two young girls, but I'd be absolutely fine with giving money through taxes. I think it would be a good cause.
We feast on McDick's, throw half our fries away, while people halfway across the world don't have clean water. I think in that respect we are ALL hypocrites.
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Keep in mind, most of the musicians/actors/etc don't LIKE doing this stuff. They do it because they feel they have a responsibility to do so, since they have a voice that millions will hear. Wouldn't you try to promote awareness to something you believe in if you knew that many people would hear you?
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exactly.
and there are no 'rules' for supporting charity or requesting others to help as well. they're rich, really, really rich. so what? even if (some) of them are extravagant in their lifestyles/spending, or simply live well beyond the average person, again...so what? they cannot ask us ALL to pitch in? besides which, a LOT of it is simply sharing information, and being better informed is always a good thing. i am not one for preaching, but for anyone really...to share their beliefs, what they are passionate about, concerned about.....i always appreciate that.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
At any rate, Bono feels passionate about these issues and has been effective (remember he's the only rock star who has been named Time's Person of the Year). But he is also tied to a bigger group of Nobel Prize economists and philanthropists, including Jeffrey Sachs and Bill Gates, who realize that poverty, disease and desperation have led to the ride of terrorism, war and events such as 9/11. They set the agenda, Bono is the spokesman and marketer.
Bono has put a great deal of his wealth, time and reputation on the line to work on these issues. He's not a poser. It's the real deal.
Zod, you are horribly misinformed and cynical. Please research the One Campaign, the goals of Jubilee 2000, the international risks of letting Malaria and AIDS spread in Africa, and the rise of al-qaeda before taking a position as an oppressed citizen of the world.
P.S. -- Maybe we should spend some of that international aid on education, namely spelling. It's Hypocrisy, not "Hypocricy."
I still have a problem with it Petrocs. It's extremely noble that U2 donates millions to charity, but why do they need to spend almost a million dollars a day for their tour? I understand that is puts some people to work, but does it justify the elaborate set up and unncecessary expenditure? It my mind, the answer is no. For me, it's more of a philosophical difference. Pearl Jam doesn't need a 100 foot high claw, or whatever the ridiculous prop is that U2 uses. Pearl Jam's music speaks for itself live. And I feel that U2 is musically gifted enough to just play their tunes without all of the extras.
Here's a comparison...my wife was watching a show on VH1 and they showed a $400 bottle of skin moisturizer that Beyonce uses every day. Now, even if Beyonce donates a lot to charity, does anyone really need to spend $400 a day on moisturizer? Absolutely not. Does a band really need to spend a million dollars on a day on their tour setup and props? Absolutely not. It's hypocritical.
And to Johnny Sitar, yes we are all hypocrites in some way - "if you hate something, don't you do it too?" But how can you do so much for charity then basically throw money out of the window? Now, I own 2 hybrids, I recycle cans / bottles / plastics / paper every day, I started a green program at work, etc. If I do all that, then leave the lights on in my house all day when I'm not home, isn't that counterproductive to my efforts to reduce carbon emissions and help do my part? It's the same example with Bono and U2. Yes, they help out immensely with charitable work, but they also live a life that is completely hypocritical to their stances, and I have a problem with that. I understand they are millionaires and aren't going to live a middle class lifestyle, but the million dollar a day cost to house their tour is completely unncessary and that money could be put to much better use.
good read as always