Prices on FENDER Guitars - what you should know, but what they don't want you to know

harrisonmerwin · May 2007

allright...

Ian you're a great guy to have around here...but its kind of shocking to see you pound this point home so hard. I think most of us don't even live near a guitar center, or even shop about them, i dont know, this thread just feels weird to me, a little to personal or something, not sure.....

Harrison

byebluemonday · May 2007

You know, some guitar stores (usually not the chains) actually have more to offer than price. While you can still pay MAP (minimum advertised price, aka Musician's Friend prices) at these stores they don't usually make as much money as the other WalMart-style clerk stores who buy in bulk.

Beginners especially should consider this when buying a guitar. Buy it from someone who's gonna be there for you - not if, but when - something goes wrong with it. Again, it's usually the smaller mom and pop shops who go out of their way to provide this service.

Nowadays, musician's gear pricing is a race to zero, thanks to Musician's Friend/Guitar Center. Pretty soon, nobody will be able to make any money who doesn't buy in massive bulk. Unfortunately, those who buy in massive bulk also don't usually provide the customer service of the smaller stores (obviously, you can luck out with some exceptions).

Remember, where you shop is a vote for the business practices you believe in. Just because you pay MAP, or god-forbid, a little more, doesn't mean anyone is trying to screw you. It may just mean someone is trying to stay in business.

lucylespian · May 2007

harrisonmerwin wrote:

allright...

Ian you're a great guy to have around here...but its kind of shocking to see you pound this point home so hard. I think most of us don't even live near a guitar center, or even shop about them, i dont know, this thread just feels weird to me, a little to personal or something, not sure.....

Harrison

A really cynical person could ask how someone goes from music school grad to studio wiz to GC grunt to owning every flash bit of gear out there and then some as well as 40 strats, but works as a guitar teacher.

I'm cool with all the big stuff, cos I am reasonably successful myself, but the GC grunt part has seemed a little strange to me at times. Just don't fit with the rest.

who's_pearljam? · May 2007

Thanks for the info Ian. There is a big markup on Fenders, and most stores probably don't charge list.
My friend owns a music store, and I spend some time helping him set up new stuff. Fender is actually pretty cool to deal with, too, as a company. The do give my friend a break on stuff sometimes so he can compete.
He gave up on Gibson, because they became almost impossible to deal with as a small business. He deals with Heritage guitars now, and they are better than the run of the mill Gibson as a rule.

I spent years travelling and playing, and now am successful, but I still love to go down to his store and I set up all the new guitars that come in and love to see what's new. So I'm sort of a grunt and I am because I love instruments and like to fix them for the kids who come in.

My friend can't match Musician's Friend prices and doesn't even try to anymore. If you buy one from his store, though, he'll remember you forever, and when you bring it in for questions or a set up, he'll usually do it for little to nothing, or I will if I'm there.
I think people are starting to go back to looking for a local store because they're tired of the big impersonal places. His biz has been picking up in the last year. :cool:

DOSW · May 2007

who's_pearljam? wrote:

Thanks for the info Ian. There is a big markup on Fenders, and most stores probably don't charge list.
My friend owns a music store, and I spend some time helping him set up new stuff. Fender is actually pretty cool to deal with, too, as a company. The do give my friend a break on stuff sometimes so he can compete.
He gave up on Gibson, because they became almost impossible to deal with as a small business. He deals with Heritage guitars now, and they are better than the run of the mill Gibson as a rule.

I spent years travelling and playing, and now am successful, but I still love to go down to his store and I set up all the new guitars that come in and love to see what's new. So I'm sort of a grunt and I am because I love instruments and like to fix them for the kids who come in.

My friend can't match Musician's Friend prices and doesn't even try to anymore. If you buy one from his store, though, he'll remember you forever, and when you bring it in for questions or a set up, he'll usually do it for little to nothing, or I will if I'm there.
I think people are starting to go back to looking for a local store because they're tired of the big impersonal places. His biz has been picking up in the last year. :cool:

Hey man, where's your friend's shop? If I'm in the neighborhood sometime I'd love to check it out.

My local shop really stinks. They charge a whole lot (which is understandable) but also a lot of their employees are cold and impersonal. One or two are really cool, but whenever I go in I just never get that welcomed feeling.

ianvomsaal · May 2007

harrisonmerwin wrote:

allright...
Ian you're a great guy to have around here...but its kind of shocking to see you pound this point home so hard. I think most of us don't even live near a guitar center, or even shop about them, i dont know, this thread just feels weird to me, a little to personal or something, not sure.....
Harrison

lucylespian wrote:

A really cynical person could ask how someone goes from music school grad to studio wiz to GC grunt to owning every flash bit of gear out there and then some as well as 40 strats, but works as a guitar teacher.
I'm cool with all the big stuff, cos I am reasonably successful myself, but the GC grunt part has seemed a little strange to me at times. Just don't fit with the rest.

Okay, to try and clear things up . . .
Just because someone graduates from Music School doesn't guarantee them a job in the music business.
Unfortunately that was the tough reality I was faced with after graduating.
I moved to San Diego in search of fame and fortune (actually a friend that I did some session work with in Tampa
got a job in San Diego working in a studio -- he was able to get me an internship there).
I was never a studio wiz (I wish) -- as I said, I actually got the break doing studio work because of my music school
background, and the friends I made (though most of the time the pay was really shitty. But I made lots of
contacts, and got to play with some really great expensive gear). I also got to meet, play, and record with
some very big names in the music BIZ (which was really the best part of the job).
This "Music Business" is a very cut throat profession, and most session work is already spoken for -- Dave Navarro
seemed to get an awful lot (I guess I could say most) of the work in LA while I was there.

I ended up getting a job at Guitar Center to try and help make the bills (San Diego is an expensive place to live), and
I got a good discount on gear, and made lots of contacts because of where the GC was located.
I built a decent reputation, and the employees would recommend me for lessons, so once I got enough students
I left GC (this allowed me a lot more free time to hit the studios, and I still made more $$$ then working at GC).
Also, I was getting really tired of the Corporate BS, and we got a new manager that was a real asshole.
80% of the employees either left or were fired after he came in (many were my friends)!!!
Hence, YES I have some ill-will towards corporate GC (thus my driving home the price point thing on Fender Guitars)!!!
So I taught guitar, gig'd local venues, and got the occasional studio gig (you gotta keep putting out feelers).

Then I lucked out when a Sony Rep heard some things I recorded - I ended up signing a small contract with Sony
for some soundtrack work (I got paid really well for that -- 1st time I'd ever made really good $$ recording).
That job led to another, which eventually led to another (It felt soo COOL).
Because of the $$$ I was making, I bought lots and lots of gear (I thought I'd made it, and that it wouldn't end - okay, I was stupid).
The problem is that LA is a cynical place, and if you didn't grown up there in the studios, the other studio trolls have
a lot of animosity towards someone new getting work there -- which makes life very difficult, not to mention getting job recommendations.
Most of the studio work there goes to people that have been there forever (or a friend of that person).
The studio work kind of dried up after my 3rd series around with Sony. I couldn't really afford to keep
living in San Diego (we wanted to buy a house, and I hadn't really saved all that much - as I said, I was stupid).

Thus we moved back to Florida (Tampa area) -- since I lived here before San Diego I still had some decent contacts.
I was able to get some studio gigs, which built into some bands needing a guitarist for tours (thus getting hired to tours).
The local band I play with regularly recorded a few songs for a vampire movie, and we did a small tour (tour bus, uhhgg)
hitting the West coast (Seattle, Portland, LA & San Diego

, over to Vegas, Texas, and so on back to Tampa.
I'm back to the occasional session gig, and I teach guitar, just biding my time till I become a Rock Star.
I guess I earned my lesson dollar-wise - I saved $$$ - we bought a house last November.
I just got some more studio work next month in NY (I'll be there June 1st-10th).

My current full time gig is as a stay at home dad.
So that's me - Cheers . . .

- Ian C.T. vom Saal

lucylespian · May 2007

Hey Ian, it's cool, I must have been feeling very cynical yesterday.

Life stories are funny things. I came from a long way back as a teenager and am doing OK.
I guess the other point that comes from your story that you didn't emphasise, is that once you own it, guitar gear lasts a long time, so a collection can be built over a long period and still be contemporary.

Peace man !!

Vedderlution_Baby · May 2007

So, when I go in to make a major purchase, which one of you would be willing to go in with me and show me how its done? I'm a pretty shy guy who lets shit slide by too easy sometimes.

ianvomsaal · May 2007

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

So, when I go in to make a major purchase, which one of you would be willing to go in with me and show me how its done? I'm a pretty shy guy who lets shit slide by too easy sometimes.

Gainesville's not that far away from me - I can make some calls when you're ready

(just kidding).
Dude, you just gotta stand up for what you believe is right (it's what you believe is right by you).
A lot of salespeople look to take advantage of timid unsure individuals (I call those guys the "wolves").

Remember, some people want a lifetime of service, and some want a good price.
I've generally found that poor people (students, ect) want a good price, whereas people with a decent job
and steady income want service. You'll have to figure out what matters more to you.
When I was making a good living I didn't really care (ohh okay, that's how much it costs, here's my money).
I don't make all that much money anymore, so I want a good price.
I don't care that much about the little stores (to me, screw it, it's gear, I want to best price possible - period).
Again, it seems like the only people that really seem to care about the little music stores are either small buisness owners
themselves, or have friends or family that are small business owners (I honestly don't believe Guitar Center has ever had
the negative financial impact on a whole town the way say a WALLMART has - other types of business do fine
with a GC around, because GC only sells music gear - it's not a 1-stop store - shit, Wallmart even sells guitars now).
So hey, I figure, let the guy with the $300,000 or $400,000 plus house and a good job (that wants service)
pay more - he can afford to (plus you generally pay a little more for service).

I just call my GC store manager friend in Syracuse and ask him what's a good price for this or that.
Now. . . I'm not looking to get it for cost, but at the same time, I want to get a really good deal.
He'll make a few calls, tell 'em I'm coming, and they'll hook me up.
Done . . . they still make a few $$$, and I still get a good deal.

Hey, I'm still young -- when I get older, or signed (or get a good steady job with consistent $$ coming in),
maybe then I'll be willing to pay the price on the tag.

- Ian

Novawind · May 2007

Well Ian, considering you've got a BUTTLOAD of guitars at your fingertips, you'd think at some point you'd be satisfied.

But we're gearheads, never satisfied!

You mentioned the PRS McCarty Hollowbody in some previous thread and I was looking at the specs for that tonight. Looks and sounds fantastic, and the hollowbody might be good on my back (I have back problems), but as you mentioned, I'm a student. I can't afford a $4000 guitar (much less a $400 Epi, lol). I'll probably invest later when I can afford it, but for now you're right. I get all my pedals off ebay even if it only saves me $20 here and $30 there. Every little bit counts.

lucylespian · May 2007

Novawind wrote:

Well Ian, considering you've got a BUTTLOAD of guitars at your fingertips, you'd think at some point you'd be satisfied. But we're gearheads, never satisfied!

You mentioned the PRS McCarty Hollowbody in some previous thread and I was looking at the specs for that tonight. Looks and sounds fantastic, and the hollowbody might be good on my back (I have back problems), but as you mentioned, I'm a student. I can't afford a $4000 guitar (much less a $400 Epi, lol). I'll probably invest later when I can afford it, but for now you're right. I get all my pedals off ebay even if it only saves me $20 here and $30 there. Every little bit counts.

Waoh, been there done that, was a poverty stricken student for 7 yrs, barely bought an album let alone a guitar.
I still like a bargain though, just like to be a little respectful as to how I get it. Except cars, car salesmen are fair game for anyone, respect is just not in the picture, period !!
Ebay is great, lets me shop around and compare prices globally. Even if I don't buy there, I know what I should be paying when I do.

harrisonmerwin · May 2007

lucylespian wrote:

Waoh, been there done that, was a poverty stricken student for 7 yrs, barely bought an album let alone a guitar.
I still like a bargain though, just like to be a little respectful as to how I get it. Except cars, car salesmen are fair game for anyone, respect is just not in the picture, period !!
Ebay is great, lets me shop around and compare prices globally. Even if I don't buy there, I know what I should be paying when I do.

my plan is to purchase the one guitar i 'need' before i start my run at 'being poor for a while'. i'm hoping to find my perfect acoustic mate...for life.

ianvomsaal · May 2007

harrisonmerwin wrote:

my plan is to purchase the one guitar i 'need' before i start my run at 'being poor for a while'. i'm hoping to find my perfect acoustic mate...for life.

Then take a look at Taylor - they gave me an 814CE back in '99, and it's honestly the best acoustic I've ever owned.
I've even had studio engineers that were recording me stop recording to come in and check it out. They were like,
that sounds incredible - that doesn't sound normal, is that an older Taylor or a newer one - they all wanted to play it.
This guitar is honestly the BEST sounding and playing acoustic I've ever owned.
I don't know what I'd play if I didn't have this guitar, but I know it wouldn't be a Martin.

- Ian

lucylespian · May 2007

harrisonmerwin wrote:

my plan is to purchase the one guitar i 'need' before i start my run at 'being poor for a while'. i'm hoping to find my perfect acoustic mate...for life.

Good plan, my faithful old Ibanez acoustic that I bought at 16 saw me well through my student years and then some. I agree with Ian that Taylor are worth a look. they are known for the "electric" feel of the necks. If you could spring for a T5 Thinline, you would really be set for tones. The maple and spruce ones are pretty affordable.

Prices on FENDER Guitars - what you should know, but what they don't want you to know

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